Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, and also Jewish immigrants, Chinese immigrants (anti-racists don’t like to speak about this folks), and Indians immigrants (which are now joining the suite) – all of these people were initially “at the bottom of the social ladder” for numerous reasons, some of these reasons were common for all of the…
Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, and also Jewish immigrants, Chinese immigrants (anti-racists don’t like to speak about this folks), and Indians immigrants (which are now joining the suite) – all of these people were initially “at the bottom of the social ladder” for numerous reasons, some of these reasons were common for all of them, some were unique for each immigrant wave. What they all have in common? They overcome the problems, and now these people are decent and respectable parts of our society.
The clue is that these people were not focused on changing rules, they played their “life game” following existing rules, which are finally the rules of free market (God bless America!), and they succeed.
The progressists are addressing the people who fail to follow the rules of free market. Moreover, they don’t even try to help these people to use these rules. They are trying to “protect” these failed people instead. The goal is to become a “Big Brother” (oh, a very kind “Big Brother”) for “wretched, poor people” who are unable to climb up the “social ladder” on their own... That’s why the progressists are never interested in Jews and Chinese immigrants, because they don’t need supervision and “help”, they don’t need “Big Brother”.
Modern progressist movement, BLM, CRT – this is not about racism, this is not about justice (and even not about “social justice”), this is about power. These folks will newer share the power with “the protected minorities” if they succeed in gaining the power.
Foolish me, I didn't know that the; Irish, Italian, Jewish, Chinese, and Indian were enslaved for 200 years and then discriminated against for the next 50 years here in America!
Don’t be so hard on yourself, dear Opponent, “African-Americans”, are mostly originated from Bantu tribes, which constituted so name “Ghana Empire”. The Empire was based on slavery; the last “farewell” of this Empire was the abolishing of slavery in 1971 in Mauritania (!!!). So the slavery in the American South for 244 years was just “a short extension” of the slavery history of the Bantu, who were sold by their (black) owners overseas.
These folks are free, though, starting from 1863, for 158 years (not 50!). If one’s forefather was born in 1863, he was not a slave, and most probably he is one’s grand-grand-grand- father, and this person hardly know even his name.
This small historical excursion supports the idea that each time has its challenge, and forefathers of Mayflower travelers also were (very probably) Roman slaves.
Just in 1900-th all California was full of posters “No dogs and Chinese are allowed”, most of Chinese immigrants and even their children were deprived from having American citizenship (I am not even speaking about education!), putting aside their problems with English language. Segregation and oppression was harsh, actually I am not certain that “black” Tom has more barriers for climbing up the “social ladder” then “yellow” Lu being both born in California in (say) 1890.
I can tell you the similar story about Haim from Zhmerinka, who emigrated to US in the same 1890, and about his sons and grand-sons.
Today, though, the descendants of Lu and Haim are at the high level positions in our academic world, our business world and our political bodies. At the same time, too many descendants of Tom (for sure, not all!) are on welfare and proudly wearing BLM t-shorts.
I had some concerns, though, that all these deliberations would meet “deaf ears”. It is so comforting to think of others (and also force-major situations) as the cause of your failures, instead of admitting that you (possibly) make mistakes at some points.
Oh, wise one, in the comment below, you say, following the existing rules, what rules are black people not following?
“The clue is that these people were not focused on changing rules, they played their “life game” following existing rules, which are finally the rules of free market (God bless America!), and they succeed.”
It seems me, though, that your understanding of the word “rule” is somewhat limited in the current context. It is not traffic rules or the criminal code.
Specific example: unfair salary policy and the lack of governmental and even private (racism, sir!) financial support for Chinese people and also blacks in the end of 19th century – first part of 20th centuries, forced emergence of Chinatowns and black neighborhoods. Looks similar, hah?
Chinese immigrant Lu: each penny has dedicated to the (initially very small and cheap) business, Lu worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week, his son combined the business help with studying (having Chinese language spoken at home!) considering education as a great value; he might have one meal a day and sleep five hours a day but he graduated from school no matter what.
We both are aware about the “life pattern” of Tom and his son (the habitants of “black quarters” of that time) well enough to decide that this pattern is basically different from what could be seen in Chinatowns.
Now compare the results, the current social positions of grandsons of Lu and Tom.
Lu follow the American rule: no one owes you anything; the society is like sea, you should learn to swim and it is stupid to complain that a shore is “unfairly far away”. This is an American way, so pioneers settled our land (and earlier Native Americans settled this land in the same way!).
I say, you're full of assumptions, aren't you? I said nothing about what rules are! But, In fact, I asked you, "...what rules are black people not following?" Is it that you don't know what the rules are? Are you capable of doing the rules by the number, you know, like rule number one and then rule number two, and so on? You need to keep it very simple for dummies like me! Surely, that's within your capacity?
Who are you trying to impress when you're regaling me with your evidentiary anecdotal stories?
I finally decide to meet your request. Find below some rules which may help you to prosper and some rules which may help you to be a proud BLM member.
The rule #1 Spend your time and efforts for learning. It is true that schools and universities are also steps in a social ladder, and it is true that such places are mostly available for the "privileged" people, but the knowledge is also power, and you would be able to provide to your son/daughter a way better starting position.
The anti-rule #1. No reason to learn because we all are in any case too poor (too black, too yellow, etc.) to study in a really prestigious elitist schools/universities. We are living "here and now", we need justice and meanwhile there is no point to spend out precious lifetime for lousy invention of system racists (various sciences, literature, etc.). Drags can "extend our mind", the purchases of the fashionable footwear and some karate drills will bring us to the proper place in the gang of our bystreet.
The rule #2: Do the work, which is important but which "privileged" people don't want to do; the "privileged" may have the access to the work, which requires less efforts but is more rewording in social or monetary meanings. Once your community will be the major player in the field and the importance of this business will one day have its say...
The anti-rule #2. Don't do anything because you are unfairly deprived from works available for "privileged" people. Satisfy your material needs by demanding a better welfare and satisfy your social needs by finding the position in the "street hierarchy". The "illegal" ways of earning money is the invention of system racists, justice first!
There are more rules for success and anti-success; you can ament the listing on your own. The major point is, though, that the person don't need personal strength, inventively, bravery for following anti-success rules. Just "go with the flow"... The excuses for the failures are always available: racism, injustice, they owe me, etc...
There’s a saying from the south for you; ask him the time, and he’ll tell you how to build a watch, although I think this also describes you; someone who derives orgasmic pleasure in their pleonasm.
Now to be perfectly clear, are you saying that are only two rules;
“The rule #1 Spend your time and efforts for learning.”
“The rule #2: Do the work...”
Are you saying, if black people follow these two rules, they will obtain great success and respect?
A prospector have to dig out a lot of a lower-grade ore to get the needed amount of gold; in the same way sometimes it needs to spend many words to explain a considerably simple and apparent things.
These rules are not so simple, but generally you make the right conclusion.
The demonstrative example is Thomas Sowell; "measured by his contributions to economics, political theory, and intellectual history, Thomas Sowell ranks among the towering intellects of our time” - and I agree with this estimate. The person from Harlem followed the above rules, and... Unfortunately, the examples of following anti-rules are more numerous.
By the way, do you know something about "Exodus to Kansas"? Take time to learn and to think about it, keeping in mind that total black population of US was about 4.5M, in 1860, whereas in the Event (Exodus to Kansas) participated only 21K African-Americans.
Dear Opponent, I appreciate your strive to have “the rules numbered”; it looks like you have a vast software experience. Computers cannot invent anything (I know the issue having 5 granted US inventions); Schrodinger (the founding father of quantum mechanics) said once that all life is “the problem with incorrect setting”. Hardly can be numbered…
The successful way of proceeding definitely follows some rules, but these rules are not easy to formalize. Your drive to issue “the numbered rules for dummies” so that a dummy can succeed following these (simple?) rules, are doomed.
Whereas the indoctrinated person hardly can be impressed (right you are!), let me to come up with a real story of my grandfather. He was born in a small Jewish-populated town at the borderland of the Russian Empire. Being 16, he left for Moscow, the capital. He hardly could speak Russian and made his living working as laborer. He studied in a shift school and graduated it as extramural student in two years. He went to the university (state stipend was earned, but he had go on working), and in ten years he was the assistant professor in the university (all despite of strong anti-Semitic sentiments in Russia). At that time, the following of such “rules without numbers” was typical for many Jews in the USSR.
In the midst of 1990-th I have a colleague, who was a son of a couple escaped from China in 1949. His story was similar to the story of my grandfather: no money, no language, nothing – and racism is also in place; finally a Ph. D. degree and a good position in the R&D company… And a lot of work between! Should I highlight the differences between the “numbered” pattern of the behavior of the people in Roxbury (MA) or Harlem (NY) and the above “proven non- anecdotal” stories, or you can do it on your own?
The person who wishes to accomplish something finds the opportunity, one who does not want - the occasion. The occasion may be absolutely real (racism do exist!) but the outcome is finally determined only by attitude.
Spot on. Thank you for putting it so starkly. Progressives are not comfortable with meritocracy. The bedrock of what made America the land of opportunity to so many and still does. It’s why hundreds of thousands still fight to enter this country by any means possible. Is see critical race theory oriented statements include this term “ableism”, so off putting. What does that mean? Being able is bad?
The terms "bad" and "good" are meaningless without explanation, "bad for whom" and "good for whom"; "a dagger is good for one, who has it, and bad for on, who doesn't have it".
It is good if the people is able for one, who intended to be a leader of these people; it is bad if the folks are able for one, who intended to have these folks as subordinates.
Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, and also Jewish immigrants, Chinese immigrants (anti-racists don’t like to speak about this folks), and Indians immigrants (which are now joining the suite) – all of these people were initially “at the bottom of the social ladder” for numerous reasons, some of these reasons were common for all of them, some were unique for each immigrant wave. What they all have in common? They overcome the problems, and now these people are decent and respectable parts of our society.
The clue is that these people were not focused on changing rules, they played their “life game” following existing rules, which are finally the rules of free market (God bless America!), and they succeed.
The progressists are addressing the people who fail to follow the rules of free market. Moreover, they don’t even try to help these people to use these rules. They are trying to “protect” these failed people instead. The goal is to become a “Big Brother” (oh, a very kind “Big Brother”) for “wretched, poor people” who are unable to climb up the “social ladder” on their own... That’s why the progressists are never interested in Jews and Chinese immigrants, because they don’t need supervision and “help”, they don’t need “Big Brother”.
Modern progressist movement, BLM, CRT – this is not about racism, this is not about justice (and even not about “social justice”), this is about power. These folks will newer share the power with “the protected minorities” if they succeed in gaining the power.
Foolish me, I didn't know that the; Irish, Italian, Jewish, Chinese, and Indian were enslaved for 200 years and then discriminated against for the next 50 years here in America!
Don’t be so hard on yourself, dear Opponent, “African-Americans”, are mostly originated from Bantu tribes, which constituted so name “Ghana Empire”. The Empire was based on slavery; the last “farewell” of this Empire was the abolishing of slavery in 1971 in Mauritania (!!!). So the slavery in the American South for 244 years was just “a short extension” of the slavery history of the Bantu, who were sold by their (black) owners overseas.
These folks are free, though, starting from 1863, for 158 years (not 50!). If one’s forefather was born in 1863, he was not a slave, and most probably he is one’s grand-grand-grand- father, and this person hardly know even his name.
This small historical excursion supports the idea that each time has its challenge, and forefathers of Mayflower travelers also were (very probably) Roman slaves.
Just in 1900-th all California was full of posters “No dogs and Chinese are allowed”, most of Chinese immigrants and even their children were deprived from having American citizenship (I am not even speaking about education!), putting aside their problems with English language. Segregation and oppression was harsh, actually I am not certain that “black” Tom has more barriers for climbing up the “social ladder” then “yellow” Lu being both born in California in (say) 1890.
I can tell you the similar story about Haim from Zhmerinka, who emigrated to US in the same 1890, and about his sons and grand-sons.
Today, though, the descendants of Lu and Haim are at the high level positions in our academic world, our business world and our political bodies. At the same time, too many descendants of Tom (for sure, not all!) are on welfare and proudly wearing BLM t-shorts.
I had some concerns, though, that all these deliberations would meet “deaf ears”. It is so comforting to think of others (and also force-major situations) as the cause of your failures, instead of admitting that you (possibly) make mistakes at some points.
Oh, wise one, in the comment below, you say, following the existing rules, what rules are black people not following?
“The clue is that these people were not focused on changing rules, they played their “life game” following existing rules, which are finally the rules of free market (God bless America!), and they succeed.”
You are right.
It seems me, though, that your understanding of the word “rule” is somewhat limited in the current context. It is not traffic rules or the criminal code.
Specific example: unfair salary policy and the lack of governmental and even private (racism, sir!) financial support for Chinese people and also blacks in the end of 19th century – first part of 20th centuries, forced emergence of Chinatowns and black neighborhoods. Looks similar, hah?
Chinese immigrant Lu: each penny has dedicated to the (initially very small and cheap) business, Lu worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week, his son combined the business help with studying (having Chinese language spoken at home!) considering education as a great value; he might have one meal a day and sleep five hours a day but he graduated from school no matter what.
We both are aware about the “life pattern” of Tom and his son (the habitants of “black quarters” of that time) well enough to decide that this pattern is basically different from what could be seen in Chinatowns.
Now compare the results, the current social positions of grandsons of Lu and Tom.
Lu follow the American rule: no one owes you anything; the society is like sea, you should learn to swim and it is stupid to complain that a shore is “unfairly far away”. This is an American way, so pioneers settled our land (and earlier Native Americans settled this land in the same way!).
Alas, Tom’s approach was different…
I say, you're full of assumptions, aren't you? I said nothing about what rules are! But, In fact, I asked you, "...what rules are black people not following?" Is it that you don't know what the rules are? Are you capable of doing the rules by the number, you know, like rule number one and then rule number two, and so on? You need to keep it very simple for dummies like me! Surely, that's within your capacity?
Who are you trying to impress when you're regaling me with your evidentiary anecdotal stories?
I finally decide to meet your request. Find below some rules which may help you to prosper and some rules which may help you to be a proud BLM member.
The rule #1 Spend your time and efforts for learning. It is true that schools and universities are also steps in a social ladder, and it is true that such places are mostly available for the "privileged" people, but the knowledge is also power, and you would be able to provide to your son/daughter a way better starting position.
The anti-rule #1. No reason to learn because we all are in any case too poor (too black, too yellow, etc.) to study in a really prestigious elitist schools/universities. We are living "here and now", we need justice and meanwhile there is no point to spend out precious lifetime for lousy invention of system racists (various sciences, literature, etc.). Drags can "extend our mind", the purchases of the fashionable footwear and some karate drills will bring us to the proper place in the gang of our bystreet.
The rule #2: Do the work, which is important but which "privileged" people don't want to do; the "privileged" may have the access to the work, which requires less efforts but is more rewording in social or monetary meanings. Once your community will be the major player in the field and the importance of this business will one day have its say...
The anti-rule #2. Don't do anything because you are unfairly deprived from works available for "privileged" people. Satisfy your material needs by demanding a better welfare and satisfy your social needs by finding the position in the "street hierarchy". The "illegal" ways of earning money is the invention of system racists, justice first!
There are more rules for success and anti-success; you can ament the listing on your own. The major point is, though, that the person don't need personal strength, inventively, bravery for following anti-success rules. Just "go with the flow"... The excuses for the failures are always available: racism, injustice, they owe me, etc...
There’s a saying from the south for you; ask him the time, and he’ll tell you how to build a watch, although I think this also describes you; someone who derives orgasmic pleasure in their pleonasm.
Now to be perfectly clear, are you saying that are only two rules;
“The rule #1 Spend your time and efforts for learning.”
“The rule #2: Do the work...”
Are you saying, if black people follow these two rules, they will obtain great success and respect?
A prospector have to dig out a lot of a lower-grade ore to get the needed amount of gold; in the same way sometimes it needs to spend many words to explain a considerably simple and apparent things.
These rules are not so simple, but generally you make the right conclusion.
The demonstrative example is Thomas Sowell; "measured by his contributions to economics, political theory, and intellectual history, Thomas Sowell ranks among the towering intellects of our time” - and I agree with this estimate. The person from Harlem followed the above rules, and... Unfortunately, the examples of following anti-rules are more numerous.
By the way, do you know something about "Exodus to Kansas"? Take time to learn and to think about it, keeping in mind that total black population of US was about 4.5M, in 1860, whereas in the Event (Exodus to Kansas) participated only 21K African-Americans.
Dear Opponent, I appreciate your strive to have “the rules numbered”; it looks like you have a vast software experience. Computers cannot invent anything (I know the issue having 5 granted US inventions); Schrodinger (the founding father of quantum mechanics) said once that all life is “the problem with incorrect setting”. Hardly can be numbered…
The successful way of proceeding definitely follows some rules, but these rules are not easy to formalize. Your drive to issue “the numbered rules for dummies” so that a dummy can succeed following these (simple?) rules, are doomed.
Whereas the indoctrinated person hardly can be impressed (right you are!), let me to come up with a real story of my grandfather. He was born in a small Jewish-populated town at the borderland of the Russian Empire. Being 16, he left for Moscow, the capital. He hardly could speak Russian and made his living working as laborer. He studied in a shift school and graduated it as extramural student in two years. He went to the university (state stipend was earned, but he had go on working), and in ten years he was the assistant professor in the university (all despite of strong anti-Semitic sentiments in Russia). At that time, the following of such “rules without numbers” was typical for many Jews in the USSR.
In the midst of 1990-th I have a colleague, who was a son of a couple escaped from China in 1949. His story was similar to the story of my grandfather: no money, no language, nothing – and racism is also in place; finally a Ph. D. degree and a good position in the R&D company… And a lot of work between! Should I highlight the differences between the “numbered” pattern of the behavior of the people in Roxbury (MA) or Harlem (NY) and the above “proven non- anecdotal” stories, or you can do it on your own?
The person who wishes to accomplish something finds the opportunity, one who does not want - the occasion. The occasion may be absolutely real (racism do exist!) but the outcome is finally determined only by attitude.
Spot on. Thank you for putting it so starkly. Progressives are not comfortable with meritocracy. The bedrock of what made America the land of opportunity to so many and still does. It’s why hundreds of thousands still fight to enter this country by any means possible. Is see critical race theory oriented statements include this term “ableism”, so off putting. What does that mean? Being able is bad?
The terms "bad" and "good" are meaningless without explanation, "bad for whom" and "good for whom"; "a dagger is good for one, who has it, and bad for on, who doesn't have it".
It is good if the people is able for one, who intended to be a leader of these people; it is bad if the folks are able for one, who intended to have these folks as subordinates.