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PeterM's avatar

I'm surprised all of you were so impressed by Haley's beacon of democracy approach to supporting a war that has very little relevance to American security, a war the US helped to provoke which has led to the death of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, a war that's costing so much money to fund that will likely end where it was a year ago. This will be another war America lost, so why the heartfelt support of Haley?

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Harry Potter's avatar

Totally agree. And folks should expand their horizon and look at how this war was fomented by us with our meddling in Ukraine and taunting Russia w expansion of NATO. Yes Putin is a brutal thug. But the world is full of them. Biden for example.

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Will Liley's avatar

Let me help you: because it’s the right thing to do. I’ve just re-read Strange Victory by Ernest May (about the Battle for France in May 1940). The lessons from then (&from Saddam Hussein) are still pertinent: if we (& by “we” I mean all people who believe in sovereign borders and being allowed to live their lives in peace) don’t stop Putin, he will keep going just as Hitler did. So yes, Ukraine has EVERYTHING to do with American security and no, the US did not provoke Putin, he did this all by himself.

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PeterM's avatar

It’s hard to respond to such a simplistic description of this war. Do some research into recent Ukrainian history and you’ll find there are two sides to this tragic situation.

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earthy.bookworm's avatar

Bari called herself an "unrepentant Neocon."

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Bob's avatar

We can’t afford to let the Russians win in Ukraine. The Russian government will continue trying to rebuild the Soviet empire until stopped. At some point they would attack a country nobody in the USA can ignore.

From the Ukrainian point of view this is a home invasion. They either defeat the Russians, or their families will be raped and murdered.

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Kevin Durant?'s avatar

They should call it ‘Gain Of Democracy Research’.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I concur. I think she is a Liz Cheney.

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It’s Just Me Dad's avatar

Because she is a woman and these women love to find a woman who they can stand behind. That’s it.

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George Neidorf's avatar

There should be a full stop after "stand."

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Scuba Cat's avatar

Nikki Haley is a war profiteer. She loves war not for the moral reasons she claims, but because she's making money hand over fist. Lee Fang documents how much money she's made through her ties to the defense industry on his Substack, which I recommend. If Haley were to somehow get the nomination, I will vote 3rd party.

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earthy.bookworm's avatar

Love Lee Fang! Glenn Greenwald's expose is also worth watching.

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PeterM's avatar

I saw that article. She strikes me as an all out war monger of the sort that spells ruin for everyone but the arms industry.

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Skinny's avatar

Don’t they all Peter?

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Aug 26, 2023
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Joe Horton's avatar

Good points, John, but I think you err on a minor point: we could be--and were--the arsenal of democracy precisely ~because~ we were already the richest nation on the planet. There were plenty of "dollar a year men" during WW II--men who served for free at jobs they could have made enormous sums of money running. [Details in the very well-written and documented "Freedom's Forge" by Arthur Herman.] The isolationists were all over them, too, not for profiteering, but for being warmongers. I have to assume that they--the isolationists--wanted to learn to speak, read, and write Japanese and German.

Bottom line is that there are people who will attack those whose missions they dislike. Even if that mission is saving the country and winning a war that someone else started. Like today, notice that no one left the United States because we were in WW II. No one, except those who fought for us. The current breed of protesters are like unruly children who, not getting their way, throw tantrums.

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Harry Potter's avatar

Bang on.

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Celia M Paddock's avatar

Under other circumstances, Haley would be a real contender. She's a smart woman with the ability to state things as they are. But she's not at the level of the things are happening now.

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Skinny's avatar

Nope she is not and neither is there any other woman to fill the position of President at the moment. If the Dems carry on with Kamala it will be the death knell of their campaign for 2024.

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Celia M Paddock's avatar

I would be very interested if Tulsi Gabbard jumped into the race. She was my preferred candidate in 2020. But I don't think she will. And I don't blame her.

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Skinny's avatar

Tulsi a terrific lady I agree but Presidential I’m not sure Celia.

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Terence G Gain's avatar

Could you give an English translation of your second sentence?

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DMang's avatar

We have to accept that a significant portion of the electorate are single issue voters. If a candidate says they are personally pro life but kind of sort of okay with abortion with limits, it is music to the ears of the abortion voters on the left. No matter that the candidate is cheerleading for the proxy war which has done little except cause mass destruction, mass casualties, mass mutilation and added more countries to the growing list of enemies of the US. Not to mention she has a financial stake in the defense industry that profits from war.

As much as the FP praises Haley for standing up for women’s issues and the sentiment of how great it would be to have a woman president (is it okay to say ‘woman’? Just checking) they wouldn’t be caught dead voting for anything but a Democrat. Haley’s candidacy will quickly fade and not one registered Democrat will give a healthy bowel movement about it.

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PeterM's avatar

Totally agree.

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Nana Ell's avatar

She’s smart, knowledgeable, succinct, and above all wants to unite America. She managed to get the confederate flag removed from the S.C capitol in a compassionate and respectful manner with her constituents. Haley 2024🇺🇸

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DC's avatar

Nah. No charisma. Plus she’s a finger pointing know-it-all like Hillary Clinton. Vivek? He’s the Loki of the Republican Party, which is to say Republican while it benefits him. Pence didn’t connect the first time and doesn’t now because he leans too heavily on a Greater Power to do the thinking for him… Christie? Opportunistic, undisciplined bully without scruples or loyalty. Burgum? Seems like a good guy but really, too little, too late. Scott? Where’s the policy? Despite five important committee assignments all he talks about is the Right to Life issue. (Ps. He’s been in the Senate for 10 years!) Asa Hutchinson has been kicking around the halls of power for years. He’s a conservative evangelical and graduated from Bob Jones University in South Carolina. This background makes him unelectable in the same way Pence is unelectable. Also, he is 73 years old… Speaking of old, Trump is 77 this year! That means that like Biden, Trump would be 80 in his third year of office… Too old! That leaves DeSantis. This is one hardworking self made man. From an Italian working class background, his is a classic American success story: baseball, public schools, military, Ivy League. He had to work hard and impress a lot of people along the way to get to where he is. And he did. His debate performance was lackluster to be sure but you know that if he chose to that he could eat the other candidates’ lunch. In other words don’t underestimate him. He has my vote.

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LovingMother's avatar

" DeSantis. This is one hardworking self made man. From an Italian working class background, his is a classic American success story: baseball, public schools, military, Ivy League. He had to work hard and impress a lot of people along the way to get to where he is. And he did. His debate performance was lackluster to be sure but you know that if he chose to that he could eat the other candidates’ lunch. In other words don’t underestimate him. He has my vote."

I agree 100% He is not some Bush family member. And, I am not looking for charisma in a president. DeSantis knows how to get things done and he has the right policies. Just look at FL.

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George Neidorf's avatar

Right, "just look at Florida." The highest inflation in the US, the highest home and auto insurance in the US, a Gov. who decides what will be taught and not taught in schools, a man who has alienated the Black and under 30 voters. Ain't gonna happen, Bubba.

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LovingMother's avatar

Gee, no one has called me "Bubba" before :)

I think Florida is thriving. People have moved to that state in large numbers and have been leaving crime ridden CA. (Maybe we should have a clear choice of Newsom v. DeSantis for president.) DeSantis turned FL from purple to red. I was historically an Independent but I will not vote for a D right now as they are all in with the new state religion surrounding "Gender". We need to get it out of all of the state schools under Separation of Church and State. The party has tanked with Identity Politics. Clinton was the last good D president.

Please see https://www.thetruthfairy.info/p/little-miss-trouble

"Gender Ideology is a fundamentalist religion—intolerant, demanding strict adherence to doctrine, hell-bent on gathering proselytes.

Induction into this religion begins with a baptism: the selection of pronouns and often a new name, greeted with all the celebration (and more) of a conversion. It evangelizes aggressively: through social media influencers, who claim to know a teen’s truest self better than her parents and to love that teen so much more than they ever could. Therapists, teachers, and school counselors play evangelist to numberless kids at American school.

There’s no physical evidence that any of us possesses an ethereal gender identity, of course. It may actually be disprovable; there is a good deal of evidence against it. No matter. The adherents take it on faith. The notion that each of us is born with a gender identity, utterly separable from our physiology, known only to us, imagines gender identity as the secular version of the ‘soul.’"

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George Neidorf's avatar

" Except for "Florida thriving, I have no argument with the rest of what you wrote. My friends in Florida don't think it's thriving.

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LovingMother's avatar

I understand. I think most of the rest of the country is doing worse though - especially crime ridden blue run states and cities. And, the whole country suffers from Federal policies.

For me, getting GI out of the schools is non-negotiable. I think the backlash/parental rights movement is growing momentum:

"Transgender Backlash: Parental Rights Advocates Launch New Strategy to Combat Gender Ideology in California"

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/30/transgender-backlash-parental-rights-advocates-launch-new-strategy-combat-gender-ideology-california/

"Under Gov. Gavin Newsom, California has enacted policies endorsing “transgender” identity over the broad concerns of critics who claim the policies threaten parental rights, fairness in women’s sports, and the long-term health of children. Those critics have launched a new strategy to counter the gender ideology policies by going directly to the voters of the state."

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Richard Fahrner's avatar

Folks, please drop the "too old" moniker for Trump. His mind is quite young and energetic, as well as his physical stamina and attention to many details at one time. Is Trump perfect for all, no. His first job as stated to tucker: "close the border". I am in agreement, as many of our current national and future world problems are attributable to the current state of open borders around the world. Drop the excuse of "we have a broken border policy". that is BS. What is broken is Biden and his gang are not enforcing current laws/policy, and no one is able to hold them accountable.

Look at Arizona putting up old containers to close holes in the wall, and the us GOVT making them remove those. Now it is Texas putting up floating barriers and the US Govt is taking Texas to court (and btw, screw Mexico for being upset at Texas).

Rich

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Richard Fahrner's avatar

Oh, and I forgot, Biden and his cronies selling off $250-300mil of Trump's usable border fence to Canada! shit what are they doing with it? Too good a deal to pass up for 2cents on the dollar. What an idiot in the WH today.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

Since you brought up Canada. I recently re-entered the US by boat in the San Juan Islands. The CBP office at Roche Harbor is unmanned and you need to use an app. There can be a remote interview but that is it. I was grilled about bringing eggs into the country though and lectured about not using the app as soon as we hit US waters (about 10 miles away, if that). The app was buggy and theHomeland Security website of little to know value. I know this because I am law-abiding and did my best to educate myself thereon. Meanwhile down south I could have ditched my passport, waded the Rio, said I was a refugee and been carrying tuberculosis, chaga disease, HIV or other pathogens and been welcomed with open arms.

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TxFrog's avatar

I thought he did well in the debate, despite what all the liberal commentators say. He spoke forcefully and clearly and made good points. All the "experts" want him to attack Trump, but none of these candidates are going to beat Trump. DeSantis' mission is to stay in second place while doing nothing to offend the Trump base for the general election, and then be the fallback choice if something takes Trump out of the race.

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Carpe Vinum's avatar

I have been screaming “fire your campaign manager” at him (through my phone/TV of course) for months!! DeSantis needs to campaign on his many accomplishments and never use the word “woke” again.

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Terence G Gain's avatar

PeterM

Unlike you, we can see beyond the end of our noses. Provoked my Ass. Some of us have read Stephen Kotkin’s history of Russian imperialism. Have you even heard of him?

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PeterM's avatar

I've heard of him. I'll consider your position if you can tell me if the US would have acted any differently if Mexico or Canada elected or was taken over by a hostile foreign power.

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Terence G Gain's avatar

Canada and Mexico do not have a history of imperialism. Kotkin is America’s foremost expert on Russian imperialism. You should educate yourself.,

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Lynne Morris's avatar

Man Canada is a British satellite to this day and the Brits wrote the modern book on imperialism. Mexico has Spain in its history. Spain was imperial in every way but name.

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NCMaureen's avatar

I have listened to a lot of Kotkin. He knows a lot about Stalin, USSR, the Russian mind set, and its long relationship with Ukraine. He takes the position that countries should be free to choose to join NATO without regard to what Russia thinks or whether it makes Russia feel threatened. That is one view point. Not everyone would agree with that. Something about treaties…

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PeterM's avatar

Yes, it would be great if all countries were free to choose their destiny, but this is a fairy tale view of the world and its history. The US has as much as any country disrespected this right over the past century.

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dorothy slater's avatar

I have mentioned this before but reading that Kotkin is a" foremost expert"who will educate us all on the history of Russian imperialism, I will mention it again . At a Death Club meeting,one attendee said he liked the group because there were "no experts" in it.

Having lived a long time through the FDR years up to the Biden years , I look around with my non-expert eye and wonder if things didn't start going downhill when the Expert class decided it was their job to educate all of us

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PeterM's avatar

There's so much evidence of this just by looking around at the state of the US and much of the western world. We've never been so educated!

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George Neidorf's avatar

We've been taught, not educated.

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Aug 26, 2023
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Skinny's avatar

Another brain with common sense today thank you.

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AK's avatar

Is strengthening and enboldening Russia/China alliance a good alternative for us?

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PeterM's avatar

I don't think China wants to be a great ally of Russia. It has its own interests to develop and probably does't mind that both the US and Russia are weakening themselves in this dumb war. What doesn't get reported a lot is that most of the world supports neither the US or Russia in Ukraine. They just want to get on with it. The development of BRIC shows that US economic hegemony is being challenged. The US should respond by strengthening itself at home rather than deluding itself into thinking whatever it does is for the benefit of spreading democracy.

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Lee Morris's avatar

BRIC is interesting in that Putin can’t go to their meetings for fear of being held for war crimes. A small detail..

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I agree with this except I think China sees the US as its modern enemy, while Russia has been its traditional enemy. I think China will play nice with Russia for the time being to assault US hegemony

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Skinny's avatar

Clear thinking here today Peter. Batya as well, the only woman on the panel with common sense, the rest all suffering TDS.

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Terence G Gain's avatar

PeterM. You should have stopped at think. China IS an ally of Russia.

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George Neidorf's avatar

Temporarily for mutual benefits.

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AK's avatar

Agree. However, China will align with Russia even if for a short term to drop that association later, once it is no longer necessary.

Hitler and Stalin played similar games.

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Jeff Keener's avatar

Looks like the war in Ukraine is doing that quite well.

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Jim Howes's avatar

This is such a neocon way to see the world. There’s no nuance or focus on geopolitical realities, just “you want bad guy get stronger?”

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JBell's avatar

I concur. I think Haley is an excellent statesperson, but she is very much a neocon and a warmonger. She did a great job at the UN, I was turned off by her screeching and finger pointing at Vivek at the debate, as she lost her cool. But then, so did Pence.... he came unhinged!

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Lee Morris's avatar

J - You might too if thousands of people came to hang you..

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Brian Katz's avatar

Yes, Pence lost it.

He was so condescending too.

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Harry Potter's avatar

He came across as a self righteous country club Republican our of their seventies. And again why would we trust anyone in politics their whole life.

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Brian Katz's avatar

Condescending too. Yes I agree.

This really is a class struggle.

The establishment Washington DC elites vs the rest of the country.

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George Neidorf's avatar

The rest of the non-elite country.

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M Palmer's avatar

Many of the men on the stage were also yelling and pointing their fingers at Vivek, but when the woman does it, she is screeching? She was standing her ground and making her point. My take was that Haley thinks Vivek's foreign policies are dangerous. She has a husband in active duty (currently deployed overseas) and a son and son-in-law in their 20s who would be drafted, if we went to war. My guess is that she wants to avoid war. As the former UN ambassador, she probably has more insight into the foreign/political workings than we average citizens.

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William's avatar

If she didn’t want war she’d be advocating for peace not escalation. Vivek is the one calling for peace.

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Bob's avatar

Sometimes war is the least bad option. Sometimes burning your own house down is the least bad response to a home invasion, particularly when the alternative is that your family is raped and/or enslaved and/or murdered.

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Keith Danish's avatar

No one is going to be drafted.

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ElleSD's avatar

Vivek is Obama 2.0

No thanks

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Running Burning Man's avatar

Why do you say that? Because of his brown, not orange skin?

Obama. 2.0? Nah, you got things wrong. Biden’s administration is Obama 2.0.

Vivek is gonna own Nikki and the rest of that field. Trump, too.

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ElleSD's avatar

NOTHING at ALL to do with his color. Gosh!

His mannerisms. His Tone. His high brow oration.

He's backed by the RNC that should tell you everything you need to know. The Uniparty.

Vivek may be the best of the bunch, but he's not the best. He's more of the same.

None of them stand a chance - not even Trump or RFK.

The Uniparty has already selected our next President - Gavin Newsom will replace Biden when the time comes and we will like it. HA!

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Kate Cahill's avatar

such a depressing thought!

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Russo Radio's avatar

God NO Newsome 🙏 Californians are split no ?

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Brian Katz's avatar

I agree, Nikki did an excellent job taking down Vivek for his stupidity on foreign policy. At the same time, I don’t 100% agree with her approach on the current conflict, but I will always appreciate her tenacity and resolve.

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Running Burning Man's avatar

Yes, she was screeching. And she is pretty clearly a sexist. Loaded gun with bullets of misandrist bias. “You want something done? Ask a woman.” Flip the gender roles in that line and women, feminists, and the Left would be howling with rage. Nikki? Not a peep. Plus she really is a neocon warmonger. Completely owned by the MIC. Smart, quick, articulate. But she’s a pawn of the Pentagon.

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earthy.bookworm's avatar

I agree with you, minus the "screeching." While I disagreed with virtually everything Haley said on foreign policy, she was forceful and well-spoken.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

And the previous crack about high heels.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

If a man is forceful, he is a leader. If a woman is forceful she is a bitch. I think it is time we had a woman as president.

The Iron Lady, Margret Thatcher was a great PM as was Golda Meir.

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earthy.bookworm's avatar

I would love to have a female president, if that female is Tulsi Gabbard.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

I like Tulsi too.

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earthy.bookworm's avatar

I'm warming up to both Vivek and RFK, Jr., but I would drop them both in a heartbeat if Tulsi entered the race.

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yelnan's avatar

Margaret Thatcher never raised her voice but had great presence and authority. She was forceful without being strident.....as I imagine someone like Condoleeza would be. Now THAT's my role model for a female president!

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

Me too. I am a big fan but she is too smart and honest to run for president. The best and the brightest don't run for office. They are out doing real work.

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Jeff Keener's avatar

If that woman was Condaleeza Rice, I'd like that.

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Bob's avatar

Condoleza Rice was too sensible to want to be POTUS. She really wanted to be NFL commissioner.

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Jeff Keener's avatar

Who could blame her?

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George Neidorf's avatar

If Taylor Swift ran, she'd have the whole female under 30 vote.

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JJoshua's avatar

Except she's a pop singer not a politician and has no desire to run for office.. Plus she's doing just fine making millions singing

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George Neidorf's avatar

Not the point.

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Cynthia Albert's avatar

Hear! Hear!

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Timothy Kaluhiokalani's avatar

Is it just me or does anyone else find it curious that the same cohort (mostly single women) who castigatedTrumps in your face style are defending Haley’s?

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Honey Daly's avatar

Be careful what you wish for, Lonesome, else we’ll be listening to Hillary screeching or Kamala cackling for 4 years!

(wink)

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

Honey, you know me. I will never vote for a Dem/SOC.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

I don't vote for the most qualified which is a myth. I vote for that one that will do the least damage.

Elections are a side show, kabuki Theater, to give the illusion of a democracy at work. All we are doing is moving the lying, scum sucking, thieves around the board. They are politicians. As the actor Rip Torn said in one of immemorable movies, "The only thing lower than a politician is a child molester." I'm not sure he was right. I think they are on a par with a child molester and the child molester may have a slight edge.

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JBell's avatar

Yes, please note that I mentioned that Pence became unhinged. Please see other posters here linking to new info in regard to her affiliation with MIC.

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NCMaureen's avatar

You should read how much she and her husband have profited from the military industrial complex big bucks. Disgusting.

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Skinny's avatar

Who hasn’t though in politics NC.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

Well let's not elect anyone with that conflict of interest because that is what it is.

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doug deeper's avatar

It appears Vivek's "conflicts of interest" are minimal. While he was a little too full of himself in the debate for me, he played it exceptionally well for someone needing name recognition. I listen to his interviews with Jordan Peterson, and he certainly appears sincere and, most important, an independent thinker. As he says, he is "MAGA 2.0." He may be a more effective bull in a china shop because his personality will not put off so many people.

I have hope he will continue as genuine and authentic because his understanding of the woke threat, articulation of it, and his solutions to it, put him above the other candidates in many ways. Regardless of the final outcome, he is educating millions on the woke crime syndicate.

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George Neidorf's avatar

"Woke" is a made up issue, a catch phrase for everything one doesn't like. I've yet to read anyone's writing or commenting who uses the word in it's intended meaning. Are they all ignorant of the meaning or just usurping it for political purposes? Only people or animals can be "woke." Things can't be aware.

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Dennies's avatar

Woke is a very handy word to describe the new totalitarian left. Generally, the only people who reject it has meaning are themselves woke. Everyone else understands its meaning.

It is led by the most powerful elitist entities, namely the World Economic Form. It controls nearly every US institution. Its brownshirts are antifa and BLM. Yes, the non-woke have taken the word to identify the woke because the woke use it to identify themselves! The word is extremely useful.

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George Neidorf's avatar

I didn't say that it didn't have meaning. The meaning has been usurped and changed to suit a narrative and, as used, has no meaning, only examples. I agree with everything you said.

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JJoshua's avatar

It's not a made up concept at all. Ask Bud or Target LOL

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I was referencing those who have profited from the MIC. I like what he has to say and I note the attacks began immediately after the debate -he is Big Pharma, he is Soros funded, he is Davos/WEF crowd - so he must be perceived as a threat to someone. My money is on McConnell and his crowd. That being said I do not think he is either experienced or mature enough to take on the DC swamp critters. I do hope he has a role in a Republican administration to gain that experience though. If not I would definitely like to see him in Congress - House or Senate. I think one of Trump's problems was that he did not understand what he was up against in DC.

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George Neidorf's avatar

Trump had no idea of how the govt. functioned. A govt isn't a corp. with a CEO. There needs to be citizenship test for all candidates. They have to be able to answer the same questions as those who apply for US citizenship.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I agree. Good idea on the test - that used to be what debates were for. Now they are media spectacles.

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George Neidorf's avatar

I think that began with the 2013 election. I remember the Romney/Obama debates. The first debate Romney swamped him and the second debate Romney sounded like he forgot where he was and stumbled through. It didn't seem legit. Sort of like throwing the fight in the 2nd round.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I agree. It is almost like a coun is tossed to see who wins. And remember Obama smirking about Romney saying Russia was a threat.

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doug deeper's avatar

If you put your money on McConnell, then I have no answer for you. If you do not see how imbedded McConnell and his crowd are with the deep state and the status quo, we have too little common ground to talk.

But I must add, Vivek is a huge threat as he has a fast-growing audience that hates the woke totalitarians. He may understand the deep state/woke criminals better than anyone - just listen to his articulation of their actions, policies and his solutions for them.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

That is what I meant by my reference to McConnell. I am not a fan.

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Franklin O'Kanu's avatar

Franklin O'Kanu

Writes Unorthodoxy

just now

So this is what I mean when I say we have to be mindful that politicians ultimately still support Big Corporations and Oligarchs, even though the claim to be "for the people." Princeton University confirmed America is an oligarch a few years ago:

https://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

And here are the examples that we see of that:

- Haley: Supports Ukraine War

- Vivek: Big Pharma

- RFK Jr: Climate Change

I could go on and on, but at the end of the day, these politicians, yes, speak to what we, the people are going with, but they also have to ensure that their lobbyist and donors are listening. Which is why ultimately, we are selecting "the lesser of two evils... which happens to still be EVIL."

Hmm, Think I'll write a post about this:

https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/

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Leah Rose's avatar

RFK Jr. does not support the climate orthodoxy being pedaled by the globalists/WEF. In fact, he is generally unpopular amongst the lobbyist/donor class because they are mostly crony corporatists and his whole career has been trying to hold corporations (and their federal agency enablers) to account for their corruption. RFK Jr. *does* believe we are screwing up the environment, but he is not obsessed with carbon emissions and he doesn't believe the solutions involve trampling the people and their rights. He believes in responsible stewardship and conservation and making sure that industries are financially accountable for the harms they impose. That's a very common sense angle.

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Honey Daly's avatar

Good points, Franklin! I only take a couple exceptions. Vivek being in “Big Pharma” pocket. Yes, it certainly contributed to his wealth, but in my humble opinion he isn’t controlled or beholden to it. Plus, he isn’t “in bed” with big donors (yet?). His wealth sets him apart from being like the others in the debate a “bought & paid for politician”. Trump had this going for him, as well.

RFK Jr., being a longtime environmental lawyer, like SO MANY others, does have seemingly “passionate” beliefs about the climate + other debatable topics; however, like Vivek (and Trump) he stands up for & is very vocal about what is tearing America down i.e. the economy, open borders, WAR, Big Tech, Big Pharma, etc.!

Although I don’t believe either Vivek or RFK Jr. have “a snowballs chance in hell” to win the election, they seem to be the ONLY TWO who talk about the need to address and BRIDGE THE DIVIDE that is only wider & deeper btw the Biden & Trump supporters.

NOTE: to my last statement. I honestly don’t think Biden has devoted supporters like Trump has. Biden is just the stand-in puppet (at this point it’s more like a PROP UP puppet) being manipulated by the Democrat Puppet Handlers to implement their WOKE agenda. The Left doesn’t criticize Biden for all his fu*k ups bc he’s doing exactly what he’s told to do, which is STAY away from the White House as much as possible ✔️ and keep your mouth shut as much as possible✔️

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BetsyB's avatar

You go girl! Everything you say in your note about Biden is 💯! How in the world the average Democrat voter doesn’t get this (i.e. Bari and her panel) is beyond me. But maybe they do and just don’t care; oh and I’m sure they don’t consider themselves AVERAGE, my bad.

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Yawny's Digest's avatar

One of the most annoying comments to me in the "analysis" by the FP's "experts" is the takeaway that somehow Biden was one of the winners of this debate. When coupled with his disastrous Maui speech, even the worst performer on this stage looks better than Biden.

Well...except for maybe Pence

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Friebes's avatar

Just to clarify, Vivek is not "big pharma"

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