I'm surprised all of you were so impressed by Haley's beacon of democracy approach to supporting a war that has very little relevance to American security, a war the US helped to provoke which has led to the death of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, a war that's costing so much money to fund that will likely end where it was a year ago. This will be another war America lost, so why the heartfelt support of Haley?
Fantastic to hear this discussion! My jaw dropped when Batya said:
“And to me, that was the Trump that we could have had if the other side did not declare war on him from the minute he got into office and just decided he was an illegitimate president, despite the fact that he won that first election in 2016 fairly. So I think there was a little bit of pathos for me watching it in that sense. “
I tried to have this exact discussion with others who oppose Trump to find that they can’t even countenance the mere suggestion there was a time to capture success in early 2017 and that Trump was sending signals of exactly this opportunity as his early executive orders were being rolled out.
Yet here we are dug in deeply on hypocritically condemning Trump for similar election results rejection that was gleefully accepted in 2016.
Until people want a prosperous future more than they want to feel better about themselves by standing in opposition to someone they don’t like being part of the solution, we are not going anywhere good.
Interesting convo, but like Btrett and Martha, you all missed the most important issue: the weaponization of the justice system against, not only Trump, but his supporters as well. After launcing an unprecedented spying campaign from 2015 all the way through Trump's tem (re: Hunter laptop as Russian disinfo)-a campaign that was truly seditious in the oldest sense of the term, no one was held accountable. And now it's Trump being targeted again by his opponent and a gaggle of Dem prosecutors. Not to mention the Jan 6 defendents whose rights-if the were violated for other "protesters" would lead to Defcon 1. This is why there is such fervent support. People see this for what it is and aour fed up. If Republicans can't stand up-forget Trump-against this weaponization, they will become its perpetual victims.
Nikki Haley is just another pro war Bush era neocon who will undoubtably keep the country in perpetual conflict.
DeSantis performed pretty good but he didn't get challenged by any of the other contenders, plus he's looking more and more like another establishment DC elite.
The rest looked like a bunch of blow-hards & wannabes.
So once the RNC & DNC finishes screwing Vivek & RFK Jr out of any chance of running on their respected tickets, I'd love to see RFK Jr tap Ramaswamy as VP and run as independents. That would throw a gigantic monkey wrench in everything and at this point I'm down for both monkeys and wrenches. Just sayin......
"despite the fact that I agreed with what Vivek was saying. Vivek had the right lines, but Haley’s deportment and her credibility and her experience, despite the fact I don’t agree with what she’s done with it, really came through for me." - This is honestly a good bit of what is wrong with modern politics and governing. Many are "intrigued" by the message and "interested" in alternate ways to govern by changing the status quo; BUT we just can't seem to move past the archaic ways that we have judged or discerned effectiveness in the past. Ms. Haley's "experience" is founded on the love of war, spending our blood and treasure on never-ending conflict and creating a entire sub-culture of depressed, wounded, and maimed men and women that must come home to live out their lives NEVER the same. Now, that is some "experience" for sure, but it is the kind we want or need going forward?
Not impressed with these so called experts. All seemed pretty opinionated from the start.
Ultimately, until Americans get back to doing what’s best for America and away from voting for just one issue (abortion or guns, etc.) and demand government work for the people; nothing will change.
Dividing people is what the world order crowd wants. Proof the children need us, the so called elites to be in charge.
Best candidate is the one who says, follow the Constitution and laws written, education and jobs over petty issues will equalize people of all races and religions.
Get special interests and dark funding out of elections to give normal people a chance and voice. Haven’t seen a politician willing to do that yet.
Matt Taibbi and Walter Kirn’s America This Week Podcast had a couple of good observations. They said we have a three party system now. The D’s, Trump/Vivek, and the rest of the R’s form a third party. Those third party people were from the 80s and 90s, pretty interchangeable. Their experience isn’t worth a hill of beans because look where we are. They said Trump sounded like a man fighting the entire world now. But that makes him a hero even more to all the struggling Americans. They liked Vivek. He stood out. Not bought. Not a warmonger. Unafraid to take a position. Christie’s ChatGPT snide remark was itself ChatGPT, canned and rehearsed. Does a grossly obese man really want to call someone skinny? (Even though Vivek called himself that).
Good review overall, team. This blew me away: "What I heard from a lot of voters is that they see Trump as someone who talks about everything that’s wrong about America"
That is the effect of a complete media praetorian guard against American citizens. Everything IS bad right now and the two guys talking about it are Trump and Vivek; perhaps three in Bergum. These three are the only viable candidates as Trump actually did give you your highest purchasing power of your lives and the other two are the only ones to have fiduciary responsibilities which is crucial in a credible world.
Since you all have finally cut yourselves from editors and are now making serious bank I think you are still in an echo chamber because of it. People who grow your food and make the parts had a serious increase in wealth with the Donald and it starts with fossil fuel energy; you all depend on readership and it will depend on whether or not we can afford the luxury of paying your bills. I am already deleting subscriptions from others. This is not a good economy you gave us by voting for Biden.
"Make America Great Again" is only negative to liberals who hate this country.
Nothing about his background indicates he would be interested in a useless position like VP. That's for political climbers like Pence and Biden.
Where I could see him being interested is in either running the Treasury or as head of the SEC. That way, he can go after the CEOs who are are violating their fiduciary responsibility in favor of ESG / Stakeholder Capitalism
I'm looking forward to coverage in the FP on the next Democratic presidential debate. It's going to be great -- with the wide variety of qualified office seekers aggressively challenging the incumbent!
Except that it isn't going to happen. The Democrats are simply going to offer a smooth pathway (or perhaps superhighway) to allow Biden to run, un-challenged for a second term.
What's really a shame is that no one in the media is covering this farce.
Excellent analysis. Batya’s analysis of the Trump voter is terrific. Started out as a big Vivek fan but he lost me with his, I assume, Trump imitation of winning by demeaning, disrespecting, and interrupting your opponents. Christie was right, we need to stop normalizing this type of behavior. As for the discussion on foreign policy, Haley is far and away the best candidate. Prior to both World Wars, there was strong push to “pull up the drawbridge. Not our fight. Mind our own business.” Whether Tucker likes it or not, as the increasingly arguable leader of the free world, what America doe# affects what our adversaries for that title do. We had to get out of Afghanistan which provided us “eyes in the sky” over some of our biggest adversaries. We had solemn speeches about “putting our boys at risk” by people who had never served or put anything at risk (looking at you, Tucker) even though the America casualties in the last year of our presence there were less than an average weekend in Chicago. The exit from Afghanistan could not have been more feckless and humiliating, making our withdrawal from Viet Nam look heroic in comparison. What do you know, not long after that, Putin decides to roll into Ukraine and China starts telling Taiwan to expect them soon. The idea that none of this affects us is infantile. Haley is right and, for me, the winner of the debate.
'I think Trump was probably hoping it would dominate the headlines. Yet the headlines really were very much about the debate.' You guys are still hooked on the relevance of legacy media headlines. Most people (except the older generation that still have a cable subscription and believe what they hear on the magic box) don't care what the headlines say. 'It's all bullshit' is the attitude. Look at the difference in reach between Trump and Tucker's interview and the debate. 15 million to 200+ million ish? Your framework for analysis has been superceded.
Weekend Listening: The First GOP Debate and the Elephant Not in the Room
I'm surprised all of you were so impressed by Haley's beacon of democracy approach to supporting a war that has very little relevance to American security, a war the US helped to provoke which has led to the death of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, a war that's costing so much money to fund that will likely end where it was a year ago. This will be another war America lost, so why the heartfelt support of Haley?
Fantastic to hear this discussion! My jaw dropped when Batya said:
“And to me, that was the Trump that we could have had if the other side did not declare war on him from the minute he got into office and just decided he was an illegitimate president, despite the fact that he won that first election in 2016 fairly. So I think there was a little bit of pathos for me watching it in that sense. “
I tried to have this exact discussion with others who oppose Trump to find that they can’t even countenance the mere suggestion there was a time to capture success in early 2017 and that Trump was sending signals of exactly this opportunity as his early executive orders were being rolled out.
Yet here we are dug in deeply on hypocritically condemning Trump for similar election results rejection that was gleefully accepted in 2016.
Until people want a prosperous future more than they want to feel better about themselves by standing in opposition to someone they don’t like being part of the solution, we are not going anywhere good.
Interesting convo, but like Btrett and Martha, you all missed the most important issue: the weaponization of the justice system against, not only Trump, but his supporters as well. After launcing an unprecedented spying campaign from 2015 all the way through Trump's tem (re: Hunter laptop as Russian disinfo)-a campaign that was truly seditious in the oldest sense of the term, no one was held accountable. And now it's Trump being targeted again by his opponent and a gaggle of Dem prosecutors. Not to mention the Jan 6 defendents whose rights-if the were violated for other "protesters" would lead to Defcon 1. This is why there is such fervent support. People see this for what it is and aour fed up. If Republicans can't stand up-forget Trump-against this weaponization, they will become its perpetual victims.
Vivek probably gained the most traction IMO.
Nikki Haley is just another pro war Bush era neocon who will undoubtably keep the country in perpetual conflict.
DeSantis performed pretty good but he didn't get challenged by any of the other contenders, plus he's looking more and more like another establishment DC elite.
The rest looked like a bunch of blow-hards & wannabes.
So once the RNC & DNC finishes screwing Vivek & RFK Jr out of any chance of running on their respected tickets, I'd love to see RFK Jr tap Ramaswamy as VP and run as independents. That would throw a gigantic monkey wrench in everything and at this point I'm down for both monkeys and wrenches. Just sayin......
"despite the fact that I agreed with what Vivek was saying. Vivek had the right lines, but Haley’s deportment and her credibility and her experience, despite the fact I don’t agree with what she’s done with it, really came through for me." - This is honestly a good bit of what is wrong with modern politics and governing. Many are "intrigued" by the message and "interested" in alternate ways to govern by changing the status quo; BUT we just can't seem to move past the archaic ways that we have judged or discerned effectiveness in the past. Ms. Haley's "experience" is founded on the love of war, spending our blood and treasure on never-ending conflict and creating a entire sub-culture of depressed, wounded, and maimed men and women that must come home to live out their lives NEVER the same. Now, that is some "experience" for sure, but it is the kind we want or need going forward?
Not impressed with these so called experts. All seemed pretty opinionated from the start.
Ultimately, until Americans get back to doing what’s best for America and away from voting for just one issue (abortion or guns, etc.) and demand government work for the people; nothing will change.
Dividing people is what the world order crowd wants. Proof the children need us, the so called elites to be in charge.
Best candidate is the one who says, follow the Constitution and laws written, education and jobs over petty issues will equalize people of all races and religions.
Get special interests and dark funding out of elections to give normal people a chance and voice. Haven’t seen a politician willing to do that yet.
Mrs Haley, I knew Margaret Thatcher, she was a friend of mine. Mrs Haley, you are no Margaret Thatcher.
Matt Taibbi and Walter Kirn’s America This Week Podcast had a couple of good observations. They said we have a three party system now. The D’s, Trump/Vivek, and the rest of the R’s form a third party. Those third party people were from the 80s and 90s, pretty interchangeable. Their experience isn’t worth a hill of beans because look where we are. They said Trump sounded like a man fighting the entire world now. But that makes him a hero even more to all the struggling Americans. They liked Vivek. He stood out. Not bought. Not a warmonger. Unafraid to take a position. Christie’s ChatGPT snide remark was itself ChatGPT, canned and rehearsed. Does a grossly obese man really want to call someone skinny? (Even though Vivek called himself that).
Good review overall, team. This blew me away: "What I heard from a lot of voters is that they see Trump as someone who talks about everything that’s wrong about America"
That is the effect of a complete media praetorian guard against American citizens. Everything IS bad right now and the two guys talking about it are Trump and Vivek; perhaps three in Bergum. These three are the only viable candidates as Trump actually did give you your highest purchasing power of your lives and the other two are the only ones to have fiduciary responsibilities which is crucial in a credible world.
Since you all have finally cut yourselves from editors and are now making serious bank I think you are still in an echo chamber because of it. People who grow your food and make the parts had a serious increase in wealth with the Donald and it starts with fossil fuel energy; you all depend on readership and it will depend on whether or not we can afford the luxury of paying your bills. I am already deleting subscriptions from others. This is not a good economy you gave us by voting for Biden.
"Make America Great Again" is only negative to liberals who hate this country.
Respectfully
I think all the Vivek as VP talk is misplaced.
Nothing about his background indicates he would be interested in a useless position like VP. That's for political climbers like Pence and Biden.
Where I could see him being interested is in either running the Treasury or as head of the SEC. That way, he can go after the CEOs who are are violating their fiduciary responsibility in favor of ESG / Stakeholder Capitalism
Frankly, I don’t give a damn about Nikki Haley’s “expertise” or “experience”.
Her and her ilk have gotten us mired in costly, pointless, never-ending wars for the past 20 years, all the while exporting our industry overseas.
Her going after Vivek in a very Trumpian manner was more a way to reduce his credibility.
I don’t think Haley is running for president; I think she’s running to be Trump’s VP.
I'm looking forward to coverage in the FP on the next Democratic presidential debate. It's going to be great -- with the wide variety of qualified office seekers aggressively challenging the incumbent!
Except that it isn't going to happen. The Democrats are simply going to offer a smooth pathway (or perhaps superhighway) to allow Biden to run, un-challenged for a second term.
What's really a shame is that no one in the media is covering this farce.
Excellent analysis. Batya’s analysis of the Trump voter is terrific. Started out as a big Vivek fan but he lost me with his, I assume, Trump imitation of winning by demeaning, disrespecting, and interrupting your opponents. Christie was right, we need to stop normalizing this type of behavior. As for the discussion on foreign policy, Haley is far and away the best candidate. Prior to both World Wars, there was strong push to “pull up the drawbridge. Not our fight. Mind our own business.” Whether Tucker likes it or not, as the increasingly arguable leader of the free world, what America doe# affects what our adversaries for that title do. We had to get out of Afghanistan which provided us “eyes in the sky” over some of our biggest adversaries. We had solemn speeches about “putting our boys at risk” by people who had never served or put anything at risk (looking at you, Tucker) even though the America casualties in the last year of our presence there were less than an average weekend in Chicago. The exit from Afghanistan could not have been more feckless and humiliating, making our withdrawal from Viet Nam look heroic in comparison. What do you know, not long after that, Putin decides to roll into Ukraine and China starts telling Taiwan to expect them soon. The idea that none of this affects us is infantile. Haley is right and, for me, the winner of the debate.
Put all your money on the political analysis of Batya Ungar-Sargon.
I agreed with every word that Batya spoke, including “and” and “the”
'I think Trump was probably hoping it would dominate the headlines. Yet the headlines really were very much about the debate.' You guys are still hooked on the relevance of legacy media headlines. Most people (except the older generation that still have a cable subscription and believe what they hear on the magic box) don't care what the headlines say. 'It's all bullshit' is the attitude. Look at the difference in reach between Trump and Tucker's interview and the debate. 15 million to 200+ million ish? Your framework for analysis has been superceded.