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NCMaureen's avatar

We have got to stop playing along with people’s psychopathologies. We have got to stop affirming untruths as though it’s compassionate. We don’t agree with anorectics that they are fat and need to keep dieting, or even have their intestines excised, do we? They have a body image dysphoria and need counseling. All these other versions of body image dysphoria are a symptom of a deeper problem. We also have kids identifying as having autism or some other psychological problem. Why? The situation is screaming at us. Our kids are messed up. They lack purpose and meaning, they need something to believe it. They don’t see anything. So they create something to give their lives meaning, to get attention and belong to a group.

JK Rowling is brave to push back, but she doesn’t go far enough. The trans movement has gone way too far now, into child mutilation and gaslighting of little kids. Enough.

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LovingMother's avatar

It is my opinion that this poor young man needed real help, not "affirmation".

"Trans flight attendant famed for airline ad dies by suicide: ‘Sorry I could not be stronger’"

https://nypost.com/2023/03/23/trans-flight-attendant-famed-for-united-ad-dies-by-suicied/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

He was only 25 when he took his own life. Perhaps if medical "transition" were not allowed before age 26 he would be alive today. - LM

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Danimal28's avatar

Agreed, LM. I consider anyone who advocates mutilation before some serious counseling evil. These people have psychological issues that need to be addressed. I have a son with anxiety issues and a daughter that just we through a stress induced eating disorder so spare any indignation regarding counseling. It, coupled with time, works.

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LovingMother's avatar

Exactly right, Danimal28. This should not be about some phony "civil rights movement of our time" so that endocrinologists and plastic surgeons can make $$$ fast. People need real talk therapy first and should not take drastic medical steps prior to a mature age like 26. Texas has a Millstone Act about that. These phony "gender therapists" must stop rubber stamping "identities" which are promoted in schools with GenderBread Persons/Queer Theory.

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Elizabeth O's avatar

My thoughts exactly as I listened to episode 6. The teen was incredibly articulate and knowledgeable, but also clearly and admittedly suffering from other mental disorders. Something is not right that parents would allow him tell the world intimate details of his life weeks after a life altering surgery. It seems like complete malpractice and actually criminal to mutilate this child's body when so many issues have not been sorted out or resolved. The world that has been opened to them at young ages has been a real pandora's box. I remember being surprised that parents were reading HP books to young children (5 and 6 years old). Then much "young adult literature" exposes our kids to ideas regarding sexuality, dysfunction, mental illness at far too young of an age, but parents and teachers are celebrating how much the kids love to read without questioning content. And then social media, youtube and online forums are opening them up to ideas and platforms and many parents aren't paying an ounce of attention or questioning who they are learning from or connecting with. We are all being gaslit. When they call a mastectomy "top surgery" something is very wrong. Trying to make gender mutilation seem so benign feels very 1984 where our language is being carefully controlled so we are lulled into acceptance. That being said, I think Megan Phelps Roper is doing a great job in telling a nuanced story.

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DeepSeek's avatar

All I hear is whah whah whah whah... everything is fucked up and doesn’t look like my mom said it should. Go fuck yourself. You put forward this idea of live and let live just don’t impose on me, but really that shits just cover for the fact that you don’t like that there are people that fly in the face of your “conservative” values. Conservatives only stand for their own freedoms. All of you that are jumping on this hateful bandwagon, they are coming for you next.

We have played along with the psychopathologies of the religious right forever. That’s shit is coming home to roost. Science has caught up with religion and said bullshit.

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Danimal28's avatar

"We have played along with the psychopathologies of the religious right forever."

Hey, your heroes just shut down churches and fitness centers while they kept liquor stores and strip clubs open. Oh, and they are advocating men competing 'as women'. Oh, and your beloved government types have been censoring you for about 12 years on social media(Matt Taibbi anyone?).

You need to police your own rather than pick on 'conservatives'. Conservatives advocate for your rights including free speech. We have served in some shitty places to protect your rights.

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DeepSeek's avatar

1) You have no idea who my heros are.

2) I would agree that shutting down churches (even though you are much more likely to find me at the strip clubs you mentioned) is bull shit.

3) I really could care less about social media.

4) I think Matt Taibbi (and Bari Weiss) should be commended for their journalism.

All of that aside, I stand by my comment. There is a place for gender affirming care for children. Like most things, it is a nuanced issue. Noah is a great example of how the system should work (in my opinion). What NC Maureen is talking about is bullshit. if child harm is the only measure by which we decide what should be banned and what should not, there is a long list. The Catholic Church seems to be going strong. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard any news regarding banning Sunday Mass (post-covid).

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Danimal28's avatar

That is the thing - I don't care if you spend your time at strip clubs. Live and let live. It is your business, not mine.

I do not think NC's comment is bullshit; we need to tell our greatest resource the truth rather than coddle them. There are two genders. Period. Yes, we should psychologically help them in any way, but I am not for 'affirming' anything against proven reality. I have watched a great friend allow his daughter to cut off her breasts - mutilation - at the age of 15 when all she needed was time to get through her problems. Like all of us in our teens.

As for the Catholic Church... They - at least in my area - are full of shit for not standing for what they should - freedom.

Appreciate your comment and agree with 1-4.

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DeepSeek's avatar

Why does everyone feel like they need to put "period" or "full stop" on statements? By the way you should know that I am a trans woman.

Anywho... I disagree. There is along list of studies that show that gender is a spectrum. I could maybe grant you that there are only 2 biological sexes, but there are also that small fraction of intersex people out there that throws a wrench in that as well.

I obviously do not know your friend, and I am sorry that he and his son need to navigate that. I hope that they are met with a great amount of empathy, which is not afforded to many in that community. Did they detransition? Do they regret it? Does your friend regret it? Did they go through the same rigerous process that Noah did? I can empathize with your friend and how hard it must have been to hear this from his child. I am a parent. It is hard to get the images of what we as parents see our kids as. We get attached to futures that we see for them. You state, "all she needed was time to get through her problems". How could you know that?

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Danimal28's avatar

"How could you know that?"

Because I have been through a LOT of life experiences, most recently with one of my daughters.

A teenager needs to grow rather than be immediately reacted to.

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MarkS's avatar

What we don't like is the mutilation and sterilization of children on the basis of a diagnosis with an 85% false-positive rate.

And I write as a 67-year-old who voted for Democrats only for 48 years.

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DeepSeek's avatar

There is not an 85% false positive rate. That is a dated statistic from the 90s that is commonly used by legislators. Most recently in Montana, where they just passed a bill to ban gender affirming care for anyone under 18. The legislator that sponsored the bill, after scrutiny, admitted this and they still passed it with the language sited in the bill. More recent studies show that detransition is extremely rare, at closer to 3%.

And the comment that I am replying to from NCMaureen clearly goes past limitations on children.

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MarkS's avatar

No, it's not a dated statistic.

"Finland's top transgender treatment expert slams spread of 'disinformation' on children with gender confusion - and says 'four out of five' kids who question their gender grow out of it" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11780631/America-wildly-step-treatment-children-gender-dysphoria.html

“As mentioned earlier, symptoms of GID [Gender Identity Disorder] at prepubertal ages decrease or even disappear in a considerable percentage of children (estimates range from 80–95%) [11,13]. Therefore, any intervention in childhood would seem premature and inappropriate." https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2008.00870.x

See also https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346?journalCode=usmt20#.Y7XcuzZoulI.twitter

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LovingMother's avatar

You might be interested to read:

"The Dutch Model Is Falling Apart By Rose Kelleher / January 2, 2023"

https://genspect.org/the-dutch-model-is-falling-apart/

and see:r/detrans | Detransition Subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/ which apparently has been gaining about 1000 detransitioners a month.

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LovingMother's avatar

Here's a good article: "Transgender tide may be turning"

https://mercatornet.com/transgender-tide-may-be-turning/83542/

except that the US is behind as the article explains.

Also, good for Elon Musk (the context is that MN Governor Tim Walz signed a child "gender affirming" executive order: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1636463718455189511

@covid_clarity Mar 9

MN Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan on parenting and children changing their gender...

"When our children tell us who they are, it is our job as grown-ups to listen and to believe them. That's what it means to be a good parent."

Elon Musk @elonmusk Replying to @covid_clarity

Not when they’re fed propaganda by adults.

Moreover, every child goes through an identity crisis before their personality/identity crystallizes.

Therefore, we shouldn’t allow severe, irreversible surgery or sterilizing drugs that they may regret until at least age 18.

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Mar 23, 2023
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DeepSeek's avatar

Oh wow! I am amazed by your massive intellect... you even used the word rebuttal... can you pull my hair next time? lol

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LovingMother's avatar

Paraphilia among adults is a word that also comes to mind. But, I think it is also a word that is on the way out - just as Pedophilia is getting replaced with "Minor Attraction".

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spiral8802's avatar

I'm reaching for my Luger.

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LovingMother's avatar

Someone else on the PITT substack said:

"I definitely believe we are witnessing the first internet-spawned cult." I think she's right. She was responding to my comparison to Heaven's Gate. Remember that?

When you view it that way the behavior of the suddenly turned inward, depressed, and angry teens makes a lot of sense - if parents are not in the cult they are bad people, members get new names (serious commitment gadget there), they have specific steps they need to take, they have "Euphoria", they "know" they will achieve perfect happiness and their true "authentic self" if they can just keep taking steps to reach some perfect spot (hence the demand for instant cross sex hormones and operations), they are so messed up it is hard to get out (ie, if I am wrong it's really really bad), etc. It is as if Heaven's Gate was endorsed by all of society. But, then Heaven's Gate was not so profitable or politically useful.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/heavens-gate-survivor-reflects-cults-mass-suicide-25/story?id=83213680

"On March 26, 1997, an anonymous caller directed police to a mansion outside San Diego where authorities soon discovered the largest mass suicide on U.S. soil.

The 39 victims found within the home were all members of a strange and secretive cult called Heaven's Gate, which had a goal to transcend to "higher beings" by spaceship."

Similar to teens: ""I was always looking for answers, looking for purpose in my life," said DiAngelo. "I loved these people. ... it meant everything to me." DiAngelo first spoke to ABC News' Diane Sawyer in 1997."

Hummmmmm.... "Over the course of several years, Applewhite and Nettles required their followers to adhere to increasingly more strange and severe rules, including severing all contact with family and friends and encouraging the adoption of an asexual appearance. In later years, some members of the group underwent castration."

Today, "support" means we are supposed to say something similar to: "Yes, dear, the human body really is a vehicle meant to carry your being to a spaceship if you feel that way."

Now, imagine if "Trans" only had 39 victims.

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Joe Horton's avatar

This is certainly an early one from the internet. If Josef Goebbels had had an internet, that might have been the first. He had to make do with radio and ginormous public appearances of der fuhrer. Worked well enough to cause the deaths of millions upon millions.

Turns out that the dark web hosts a fair number of people who are bent on creating mass casualties. We call them domestic terrorists. I've seen some of their blogs. Calling them disturbed is like calling a dwarf short.

Internet isn't required, but no question it's a convenient shortcut.

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Mar 23, 2023
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LovingMother's avatar

I agree that SJW-ism was the start of the infection but I'm not sure it had all the elements of a Cult before "Trans".

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Joe Horton's avatar

What else would you have JKR do, Maureen?

Operative saying is that there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Attention to the trans movement is publicity, but ignoring it is like ignoring an early cancer. There’s probably a sweet spot that, in a perfect world, would spotlight the problem and suggest how to fix it. But given the speed of viral communication, any light quickly becomes heat and therefore counterproductive. Rowling said her piece and then largely shut up. I consider that to be a perfect response. And, alas, also a very rare one.

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NCMaureen's avatar

Do what I did in my post—- declare trans a psychopathology.

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Joe Horton's avatar

I think that she as much as did that. It's pretty obvious where her feelings are on this. It wasn't necessary for her to pile on by adding yet another voice. You don't persuade rational people by the number of voices that espouse an idea. You do it by being the rational one.

I think JKR is doing a fine job. But I don't fault you for your opinion, which I think is also a reasonable one. (Not that my opinion of your opinion should make much of a difference to you, but hey....) ;-)

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QX's avatar

Liberal media is absolutely lying describing her as transphobic when most people actually agree with her.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

JKR should use this: "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers." Socrates

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

When I read this I think of comprof and R T.

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Alison Bull's avatar

This is one of the best podcast series I’ve ever heard. The brief history of online language and bullying and recent feminist history are all important backdrops to this story and provide a much needed context. JK Rowling never made flippant, bigoted statements. Supporting the trans community and their rights and protecting the hard earned rights of females and female only spaces shouldn’t be an either/or endeavor. The disgusting online abuse Rowling and others, including violent sexual threats and rape, are intended to silence. Rowling is an extraordinary woman. There are millions of women who suffer abuse who have no voice and no “platform.” I applaud her for standing up for them and standing for the right to be heard without a life-destroying backlash that destroys livelihoods.

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Danimal28's avatar

Agreed NC. As much as I respect JK for her work and courage, she helped create some of our identity issues and needs to work harder to correct it.

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Gooddogboy's avatar

How did she create identity issues?

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Danimal28's avatar

For over a decade the series' fandom has long been a place that accepts multiple genders. People are free to think whatever they want, but if she is making billions off of a product she has the responsibility to encourage facts(there are only two human genders). She did that in 2019 and I give her credit for it. She should have done it years earlier imho.

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Joe Horton's avatar

Perhaps some details would help make your point. I can’t think of any that support your thesis.

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Marie's avatar

And the medical community must return to its roots: first do no harm.

Since when does any patient dictate diagnoses to the physician?

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Lauren L's avatar

I figured out long before a Physician that I likely had endometriosis. I dealt with a few bad doctors dismissing my symptoms before finding a good one that confirmed my intuition was correct. This has happened many times, actually. It's not uncommon for bad doctors to misdiagnose patients, and patients to figure out their own diagnosis before finding a competent Physician.

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Marie's avatar

You’re not wrong, there are times that a patient has to advocate for themselves, but the complete submission of medical professionals to teenagers’ self-diagnoses isn’t the same as an adult with defined physical symptoms dealing with the medical profession.

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LovingMother's avatar

For the most part it is more dangerous to take a troubled teen to a therapist than not as all roads lead to "is trans" which somehow has taken on a magical quality beyond "body dysmorphia".

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DeepSeek's avatar

Probably better off taking them to some pedo priest.

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Marie's avatar

I’ve told my daughter to keep my grandchildren out of the US for the duration for that very reason.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

Where does your daughter live?

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Marie's avatar

She, her husband and the grandkids live in Asia.

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Mar 23, 2023
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LovingMother's avatar

I agree with you about the NYT which I once liked, and healthcare.

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Linda Runs's avatar

When it's a big money maker.

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NCMaureen's avatar

Probably around the time drugs started advertising on TV and people decided they needed that med. We really need to go back to no advertising for drugs. We banned them for cigarettes.

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DeepSeek's avatar

Cause there are so many ads about gender affirming care?!? 🙄

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LovingMother's avatar

Probably also since it became a multi billion dollar growth business:

https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-sex-reassignment-surgery-market

U.S. Sex Reassignment Surgery Market Size, Share & Trends Analysis Report By Gender Transition (Male To Female, Female To Male), And Segment Forecasts, 2022 - 2030

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Skeptical Mom's avatar

Let’s work to see a market crash in this area.

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LovingMother's avatar

I like it.

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Yuri Bezmenov's avatar

All Doctors who harm children must be named, shamed, and punished. Follow the money - the billionaire Pritzker family profits from pushing trans drugs: https://yuribezmenov.substack.com/p/how-to-do-no-harm-part-2

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LovingMother's avatar

I love the name, "Millstone Act". We need this nationally. Minds are not fully formed before around age 26 (which is why, of course, they go after children):

"‘Texas Millstone Act’ Would Prohibit Gender Mutilation Procedures for People Under 26

As more people have been taken advantage of by greedy physicians, the Texas Millstone Act would help protect innocent people from these life-altering procedures."

https://texasscorecard.com/state/texas-millstone-act-would-prohibit-gender-mutilation-procedures-for-people-under-26/

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

I live in Texas and hope this passes.

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Mar 23, 2023
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LovingMother's avatar

Lets bring the voting age back to 21.

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NCMaureen's avatar

OMG! How can the medical profession stand by and allow these monsters? They are no better than Mengele.

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LovingMother's avatar

And what about our political leaders? Hurrah for Elon Musk!

MN Governor Tim Walz signed a child "gender affirming" executive order

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1636463718455189511

@covid_clarity Mar 9

MN Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan on parenting and children changing their gender...

"When our children tell us who they are, it is our job as grown-ups to listen and to believe them.

That's what it means to be a good parent."

Elon Musk

@elonmusk

Replying to

@covid_clarity

Not when they’re fed propaganda by adults.

Moreover, every child goes through an identity crisis before their personality/identity crystallizes.

Therefore, we shouldn’t allow severe, irreversible surgery or sterilizing drugs that they may regret until at least age 18.

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Mike Eyre's avatar

From a standpoint of policy, Minnesota may now be the most leftist state in the country. The good news is that at least some traditional Democrats there believe state government is going too far.

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LovingMother's avatar

That does sound like good news. Who might they be - politicians or regular people...?

I hadn't heard of MN Rep Walter Hudson before but I appreciate that he spoke up:

https://pjmedia.com/columns/walter-hudson/2023/03/29/the-gender-jihad-n1682519

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Mike Eyre's avatar

My father-in-law, for one, questioned why they had to go all the way to birth with their new abortion law. He's an old farmer with more traditional Democrat values.

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LovingMother's avatar

Yes, bring those back please!

And how about we don't intentionally mutilate them after birth.

And, why does no one question why drag should be performed for or by children?

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Deb Hill's avatar

They are Mengele!

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LovingMother's avatar

Correct.

"Echoes of Eugenics: What the Doctors Trial at Nuremberg Means for Us in the US"

https://pitt.substack.com/p/echoes-of-eugenics-what-the-doctors

As a commentator said on a later PITT (yesterday)

"When this is all over, we will need to examine why and how our institutions and the media were so easily captured."

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Mar 23, 2023
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Joe Horton's avatar

What’s “ASD”?

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Liora Jacob's avatar

Autism spectrum disorder

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