An intelligent article apart from the following stupid statement:
"Meanwhile, battle-scarred Donald Trump is a heavy favorite to become the Republican presidential candidate: this would pit a septuagenarian against an octogenarian in the 2024 contest, each of whom can be expected, if he wins, to try to put the other in jail. It’s enough t…
An intelligent article apart from the following stupid statement:
"Meanwhile, battle-scarred Donald Trump is a heavy favorite to become the Republican presidential candidate: this would pit a septuagenarian against an octogenarian in the 2024 contest, each of whom can be expected, if he wins, to try to put the other in jail. It’s enough to make one wonder whether the Zoomers have a point."
If you want to encourage nihilism, then, conflating the persecution of Trump on blatantly contrived charges with the failure to prosecute Biden and Co despite overwhelming evidence, is a good way to continue the downhill slide. This is morally on a par with saying that both Hamas and the Israelis have killed people and both should stop.
Morality? In this section I think he's saying we can just expect more inane battles between and about politicians from the same old farts when there are more important things at hand. Am I missing something, or did you bring a completely different axe to grind?
WOW! I did not think it was possible to fit that much nonsense in one essay . Martin Gurri is possibly the all- time honors graduate of the Israeli school of Hasbara. Indeed a master of sophistry .
Of course, it makes sense that he was an analyst at the CIA the ultimate specialists in deceit, trickery, disinformation, and Orwellian Newspeak. he starts off his piece by listing all the dastardly deeds that Hamas was said to have done
Most of which were debunked. There were no rapes. There were no babies burned in an oven nobody was tortured and most of the civilian deaths -as new information and data has come to light- we’re largely caused by the Israeli Air Force, striking the area indiscriminately killing Hamas resistance fighters as well as Israelis
There is undeniable truth, proof that Israel also strafed their own army base. Killing their own soldiers. They were conforming to the IDF policy called the Hannibal strategy. (You can Google it) where basically says it’s better to kill your own people and to have them become a liabilityIf they are taken hostage.
Then he takes liberty with reality by calling the protesters of the Israeli massacre that has been ongoing for over 40 days as supporters of Hamas. The millions of people that showed up because of the unspeakable heinous actions of Israel against the people of Gaza
Official numbers to date are over 13,000 civilians and approximately 6000 children have been murdered by Israel. Its bombing up hospitals, schools, churches, masks, and civilians fleeing from north to south can be characterized as pure evil. The cutting off of water, Internet, food, medical supplies fuel is considered war crimes as many organizations have deemed it to be the United Nations Amnesty International,American Friends, Human Rights Watch , B’Tselem, JVP , If Not Now Red Cross , Save the Children Doctors Without Borders as well all those who have eyes and a brain. Mr Gurri the alchemist has managed to turn the millions of peaceful protesters against the continued genocide(look it up it’s what Israel is perpetrating )into supporters of terrorism. a majority of the world is in shock, and awe by Israel’s relentless cruelty.
Yet he insists on having you believe that what you see is false. That is an amazing feat, especially in this age of communication.
Unlike other historical crimes, such as the Holocaust, Cambodian killing fields Mao Tse Tungs cultural revolution ,the Armenian genocide etal. This particular event is being”televised”
you have people like Mr. Gurrii disingenuously spewing alternative facts and asking you to believe him. Yes you can believe him or you can believe your own eyes -you pick .
“the persecution of Trump on blatantly contrived charges with the failure to prosecute Biden and Co despite overwhelming evidence”
Both statements are wild oversimplification and demonstrably false.
There is some evidence of wrongdoing on both Trump and Biden. Gurri’s point is accurate in that electing either one of them will do nothing but continue to make these legal issues the focus of either administration when there are many more larger issues to tackle.
Sam, if you back and watch an address by Eisenhower or watch a debate between Reagan and Bush, Sr., it's painfully obvious how inept and inarticulate our leaders are today.
Many people despise Trump because he is not articulate, and they would prefer to have someone well-spoken with refined manners representing them on the international stage. Nevertheless, while Trump may be inarticulate, he can hardly be accused of being inept. Consider a few details: Trump facilitated peace agreements between Israel and four neighboring Arab countries—the first and only President to achieve that in the past 75 years. He cut off funding to Iran and had them on the ropes, whereas Biden just sent them $8,000,000,000 with more on the way. No new foreign wars started on his watch. Hamas knew better than to invade Israel while he was in office. Gas prices were way lower, and inflation was not an issue. I could go on, but the point is this: There is a huge difference between being inarticulate and being inept, and people tend to overlook this all-important distinction.
Sam, sorry to rain on your “greatest hits” parade but: Kushner’s peace deal looked great except that it played to his Orthodox Jews mates (read, settlers) and totally ignored the Palestinians...and stored up the resentments for the explosion on October 7;
Obama recognised the harsh reality that even the US’s bunker buster bombs would not reach the Iranians’ underground nuclear facilities so he had to negotiate. The $6billion (not $8 bn) is Iran’s own money, frozen in South Korea for years; Biden reasoned that he could release it to a safe account in Qatar in return for Iran’s release of six U.S. hostages. Naive perhaps, but what would you have had him do?
No new wars? Well done! But Trump set the terms of the Afghanistan withdrawal and handed that poisoned chalice on to Biden, and he backed Bibi all the way, so much that Bibi and his ultra right wing fanatics are arguably as much to blame for October 7 as is Hamas, by provocation and negligence rather than intent.
Great point, MC. It’s humbling to go even farther back and see how many of our former presidents were incredibly articulate, thoughtful and well-read compared to many of the grifter-politicians of today.
Of course, we all agree with common sense issues, as long as they flatter our tribe. Anything against our tribe (in this case, the Cult of Trump) is “stupid”. Yes, I tend to be less optimistic than the author of the article.
I thought it was insulting tripe. The media leap. The Republican Party is a label.masquerading as an organization. Mike Johnson is a "generic" name is a pretty telling statement. As is previously only famous to his family. Tripe. Tripe. And more tripe.
I agree. Not sure why the author decided to attach Mike Johnson for not being famous. Why would any party want to select a speaker on how famous they are?
Trump is "guilty as hell" of what exactly? We're all aware of the flimsy accusations by his enemies, so go ahead and tell us what, exactly, his incontrovertible crimes are.
He's guilty of crimes of law and "crimes" against the republic. The latter don't matter in court, but they are of far greater consequence: He lost, but wouldn't concede that he lost even when it was "incontrovertible" to everyone including himself.
Of the 90+ charges against him (since the last election; I'm not counting his innumerable run-in's with the law as a private citizen nor before the 2020 election), two stand out to me.
First, he defied a federal subpoena to submit secret documents, then tried to hide them. That's criminal, and arguments about that he SHOULD have been able to keep them are irrelevant. He defied the law.
Second, he used extra-legal means to try to change the results of the election. Bullshit judicial lawsuits? Fine. He tried, he lost, whatever. Twisting arms of executive branch people like the GA guv? Nope.
"Trump is also guilty as hell, on many charges. Why is that not obvious to everyone, at this point?"
Well, let me count the ways. The massive investigation of his "Russia Collusion" came up empty-handed after two years and a zillion dollars wasted. And the source of the funds for producing the phony Steele Dossier was eventually traced to the DNC. And the FISA warrant that was obtained to spy on Trump—both before and after he was already in office—was obtained fraudulently. These are facts, not opinions. So, there is ample evidence that Trump's political enemies have not hesitated to use every dirty trick in the book to undermine him and falsely accuse him.
That's why I'm a bit suspicious when I see him indicted by left-wing activist prosecutors and judges who could have brought up these charges against him two or three years ago—but instead chose to wait until election season to force him to waste his time and effort defending himself instead of campaigning for the Presidency.
Why is that not obvious to everyone, at this point?
Being 'obvious' is not how our law system works. But if it IS obvious, it should be super easy to show things like evidence and then convict. that fact that the trials don't seem to be doing this might indicate that while it may SEEM obvious, there may not be much to actually PROOVE that it is obvious....which is what is needed to convict someone.
I'm sorry, but this ongoing concept that "Trump is guilty" is confusing. Guilty of what? He is persecuted relentlessly and has been for the past 8 years, since he announced his run in 2015. Of the 91 charges against him, and 4 + indictments and other multiple charges, there is no sane person that should feel Trump is guilty, of any CRIME. He is in some folks minds, guilty of being brash, saying some mean things, and certainly being Pro-America. I am Pro-America too, and I am proud of that. I stand for our national anthem, and say the pledge of allegiance. I raised our kids with strong moral values and honesty, (I hope those stick), and I fly our American flag on our house every day.
Are we perfect in all ways in America, certainly not, if hind-sight is the measure of perfection. I prefer to acknowledge that we have erred in some ways during the past 250 years of our existence. I compare what we do and have done, to what other countries "do and have done" and we should continue to learn from our mistakes.
I see the broad success we have enjoyed as a country, as well as the hurt we have caused to some of our population. Today it is popular to "swing the pendulum" back the other way, and try to placate all the victims who have been or perceive they were wronged. I say, "man up", "show some sack" , "pull your head out of your ass" and get to work.
If you break a law, you should be punished for that. If you don't like a law, use our process to get it changed, not just evaded or ignored.
Latest news is the rash of personal bankruptcy filings by supposed "adults" to avoid paying off their student loans. Happening why? because our current admin could not shove a mass loan waiver thru, so now student loans can be grounds for filing bankruptcy, when student loans were previously exempt from this option. It is another way to placate supposed victims, despite their own ignorance of business and "how it works" and has worked for many years. The real issue is with colleges and their cost structure.
The Israeli - Hamas war is another example, in my mind of trying to placate Gaza "victims". Jews have been trashed and spit upon for hundreds of years. The Jewish nation were given, fought wars and won those wars, to keep their country/state of Israel. Now the Palestinians cry victim, even as they gave control of their lives over to Hamas. Gazans, if they really don't like Hamas, should be helping the IDF root out and finish Hamas as a leadership. Hamas only knows violence, and it shows. Yet many young Americans support Hamas, which is confounding to me. History is there, read it (before wikipedia gets their keyboard on it) and understand history, and perhaps folks will have a change of view in many areas of our world.
Richard, by your comments you seem to be a considered, reasonable man, so I’m puzzled how you can possibly say Trump has committed no crimes. He took Top Secret documents (including war plans on how to deal with Iran), lied about what he’d taken, refused to return them when asked and then showed them around at his NJ country club to other members. Even his arch lackey Bill Barr has said he is cooked on this charge. Then in Georgia, “find me 11,000 votes”. On tape. If you think that is not interference with an election, please tell me what it takes to ever do so. And I’ll not even start on January 6, 2021. Or do you think that what he did was NOT incitement?
you as are others, are entitled to your opinions, re Trump and anything else.
Re the Docs case, as I understand it, A sitting President alone, can decide what is classified or NOT. Trump said he declassified the docs he possessed. NARA wanted them back. There is no accurate way to account for what or when a doc is declassified apparently. So it is a he said-she said issue. What is clear re classified docs; Biden, Pence, Clinton were all unable to declassify the docs they possesed, as they did not hold the office of President. WHY is there no prosecution of these folks/situations? Re war plans on "How to deal with Iran", maybe Biden and Obama should read those and learn from their ongoing mistakes. Seems like Trump dealt with Iran quite effectively vs our current state...
Georgia, listen to the entire recording and not just "find me 11,000 votes", there is much more context and multiple people on the line who were involved. To indict 18 people or RICO charges is insane, and is being used to get one or more to flip on Trump. I find it highly unlikely there will come anything from Ellis or the others.
Yes, don't get me started on Jan 6. The rally was planned by a support group for Trump, and he was one of several speakers that day. Trump offered Natl Guard and addl security to Pelosi and Mayor Bow-wow-ser, who refused to accept the support. Even the Cap Police chief confirmed this offer of addl security. Listen to the entire speech and it is clear (to me and most logical listeners) that Trump advised marchers to go "Peacefully and Patriotically" and let your voices be heard. He is not the reason folks became violent and skirmishes broke out that day. He perhaps could have stepped in earlier to calm things, but he did not. Does not make him guilty of anything. What should piss folks off, are the 500+ riots during 2020 re Floyd and the fallout from that. $1.5 billion in damages alone, vs $1.5 mil in est damages to the capitol,,, wow. 22 people and police killed in the 2020 riots. One person, Ashley Babbit murdered by a DC policeman Byrd,( with no open investigation of his actions) , with no other deaths or significant injuries on Jan 6. The livelihoods and families ruined by the 2020 riots is the real crime, and virtually no one held accountable for any of that. The 1000+ people investigated after Jan 6, is the other crime here. Some still in jail and have not had a trial.
And yes, I feel the capitol was full of antifa and other instigators trying to make the day turn out worse than it did.
"Of the 91 charges against him, and 4 + indictments and other multiple charges, there is no sane person that should feel Trump is guilty, of any CRIME."
I'm quite sane, and believe Trump is guilty not of just some of these charges, but almost all of them.
Since neither you nor I are his judge and jury, however, I am willing to wait for both to pronounce his guilt or lack thereof. Why aren't you?
I appreciate your question Shane. You seem to be a very thoughtful participant in these exchanges on TFP. Your beliefs are yours, and you are entitled to them.
I will not debate if your "sanity" is in play here. This figure of speech I used ("no sane person") has been around for ages, and I can use it as I see fit, and today I believe it fits quite well in the many cases re Trump.
You also state your opinion re Trump's guilt of the charges, and it seems you, as with me, are NOT waiting for the pronouncements.
As you ask me, why are you not waiting for all these accusations to play out? In the meantime, my comment stands.
My biggest issue is the double standards we are seeing in all of these charges being tossed at Trump. ie Civil suit in NYC, "documents case", questioning voting processes in GA, inciting Jan 6 protests/riot etc.
For example, The first case in NYC, a civil lawsuit, is a sham to me. There had not been one witness called, no complainants came forward crying "foul" , nor any other evidence presented to the public, before Engoron "ruled" that the Trump Corp/Family had committed fraud. The judge alone determined there was fraud. Legal scholars have all said, "there has to be a victim of fraud, for fraud to occur". Now we are in the penalty phase of the case, and the judge is considering how much $ the State of NY will get from Trump Corp. I will say again, would any sane person think this is legitimate? I sure don't, as well as with the other cases coming our way.
Thanks for this, Rich, I appreciate your graciousness and the compliment, and hope to return both here.
You make a good and fair point--since we are both stating personal opinions about Trump's guilt or lack thereof, I cannot claim I'm "waiting for the court to decide." My bad, you're right. And stating such is appropriate. As I told Elizabeth elsewhere, we are neither the judge nor jurors, so we can issue personal opinions as we deem appropriate.
On the tax fraud case:
"Legal scholars have all said, "there has to be a victim of fraud, for fraud to occur.'" Yes, and there was a victim: the State of New York. It lost millions of property tax revenue when the Trump Organization's misstated the value of its properties in New York, and it sued to get the money it was owed.
The evidence was in the documents provided by the Trump Organization, so there's no question of authenticity: T.O. provided an inflated set of assessments to the banks in order to secure loans, while giving county tax assessors in New York deflated assessments in order to reduce T.O.'s tax bill.
The state argued that action was tax fraud and filed suit. The judge issued summary judgment based on those numbers--the legal equivalent of "you can't have it both ways"--which he has the absolute power to do.
So I stand behind my judgement that sane people can and do believe this court action is legitimate, that T.O. was fairly convicted of tax fraud (civil court, not criminal), and that T.O. should be required to pay its back taxes with penalties, as anyone else convicted of tax fraud is required.
As for the criminal cases, I find nothing illegitimate. Trump may or may not be convicted on any charge; nobody knows what the juries will do. But the state fairly indicted him and scheduled him for trial.
I said "fairly" because I read the indictments and charging documents when they were issued. I find them very detailed and legally sound. Both state and federal prosecutors used grand juries instead of direct charges, further protection for defendant Trump against prosecutorial misconduct. The feds and Georgia made strong enough cases for me to conclude Trump will be found guilty of most of the charges in all three cases.
My conclusion that Trump is guilty does not stem from my personal dislike of him. I didn't personally like Kyle Rittenhouse, either, but I posted my opinion before his trial that the man was NOT guilty of homicide in Kenosha, because the evidence and videos overwhelming indicated his shootings were self-defense, not crimes.
So yes, you are free to say Trump is not guilty of anything, I am free to say he is, and I was too inartful in challenging the "sane" comment. Again, thanks for your graciousness and compliment, I appreciate both. Happy Thanksgiving.
re the NYC tax case. i did not see the judges rulings specifically, What is off to me is this, the state I live in has a tax assessors office, as does every state and city in the US, I believe. The typical tax assessor does not leave it up to the tax paying entity (TO) to declare the value of its assets, and pay the tax on those stated values. My tax office sends out annual tax bills, based on the values they come up with. I pay as noted, or I am able to contest. I dont think NYC is any different.
RE the other side of the coin, inflating values to "get better loan rates or lower insurance etc", to me, is absurd. Same thing applies to me as to the TO. I apply for a loan or insurance etc, and the lender is not obligated or compelled to accept my valuation and base my interest rate or collateral on my figures. They do their own assessment of their valuation, I negotiate, agree or contest and see what happens. example from this NYC case which the judge/Engoron is using to leverage his ruling: Mar a Lago was valued at $18mil by the judge/court in NYC. I don't live in west palm, and "I'm not a smart man", but that valuation is BS to any sane person.
Re timing of these tax issues, I believe they are also outside of the statute of limitations for federal tax penalties, not sure to be honest. Consider what the IRS and the "special prosecutor" Weiss is trying to do for Hunter Biden and his tax issues, drag the case on long enough for the statute to run out. Without the two IRS agents coming forward, this issue would have gone into the ether.
Trump c;laimed he was, among a myriad of other things, going to "drain the swamp." The swamp still stinks and needs draining, and it's never going to happen.
Because the swamp fought back. From.day 1. I am certain that is why his second term had to be derailed at all costs. At least we can put names and faces to the swamp creatures now. People think Trump is some sort of tyrant, but consider if you will swamp creature Comey slithering in to the oval and after a meeting saying "A word in private Mr. President". Then telling him about the Steel dossier including pee tape story S if it were genuine. When swamp creature Comey knew that it was paid for by Hilary Clinton. It was a Machiavelian tactic to divert Trump from.the real wrongs being done. This followed by four years of the Russia collusion myth. If you do not understand that the executive branch career bureaucrats are rotten and need to go, I can't help you. Trump is the only one who can drain it. Haley and Christie are swamp creature wannabees. DeSantis is too nice. Ditto Ramaswamy, plus wholly inexperienced.
re the bankrupcy(cies). the law is or was in place to allow that. If the law was bad, or is bad, lobby to change it. Simply having the Biden admin waive the law, is not the way things are done. This latest effort to wipe away student debt, taken on knowingly, will be struck down in my opinion. thanks rich
Because most fair minded people know that the so called evidence used against him is contrived by a “deep state” of dirty power hungry players willing to compromise the American justice system in order to bar anyone they deem unfit for the Oval Office. If it weren’t Trump it would be any free citizen who dared aspire to lead the country.
People who believe in Justice, await for evidence obtained legally and presented in an unbiased forum so hey can make one’s own rational conclusions. Thank God for fair minded citizens who know that the American media serves as a propagandist arm of our “unjust” DOJ leaders. They know that the corrupt media have succeeded in convincing the public (you included) that Trump is “guilty as hell.” Your comment is a prime example of such broken institutions.
I know!! The poor man!! All those top-secret classified documents Trump moved to Mar-a-Lago and defended as "mine and mine alone?" It's a contrivance of the "deep state" that employs jackbooted thugs with black helicopters to whisk Trump to a FEMA re-education camp to silence him! He didn't take any classified docs, those videos and photographs and voice recordings are Deep Fakes by Big Tech on the Payroll of Demoncrats!
But puzzle me this: if the Justice Department was silencing him, why won't he shut up?
Oh please. You please. Are you people totally without reasoning power? A free society has free e press ion, free and fair elections and wait for it equal treatment under the law. Thanks to leftists we have none of that. Get real.
Wow, you really make my point. This isn’t about Trump at all. You can hate him if you want. I understand the visceral reaction; we are all human. I have the same feeling every time I hear Hillary Clinton comment on anything. My comment was about blind justice. Because the media feeds the public a soundbite without context, or staged photos of supposed evidence, the public has already convicted the accused. True justice for any accused citizen (including a former President) should always be applied fairly.
Exactly the point. Free and fair elections,freedom of speech and equal treatment under the law. People better see leftists gave no intention of Amy if the above.
Would Leftists like to change some our freedoms? Of course. So would Rightists. It doesn't mean they can. Our freedom of speech remains robust. Elections are free and fair. Equal treatment under the law? Not so much, since the law treats the rich far better than the poor.
Not sure what planet you live on. I taught at a university and everything in this article is true. Elections are NOT free and fair and it's clear we don't have equal treatment under the law. Bari worked on the Biden administration censoring what they knew was true. Get real.
Justice isn't blind. It can only be fair, because jurors live in the real world, absorb tons of media, and in the trial of a President, can't enter a courtroom "blind." Unless they've been living on remote islands with no media, they will have a personal opinion on the matter. Their job is to suppress that and look only at the evidence presented in court. I have the luxury of knowing evidence that might or might not be admitted. Which is why I can confidently predict convictions--I've seen enough facts to know it's going to happen, and unless a judge suppresses the admission of those facts, Trump will be found guilty.
I'm not rendering a legal verdict here on The FP. I'm proffering my opinion on whether he will be convicted. I have as much right to do that as Trumpers have to insist the opposite is true, that he will be exonerated. If you didn't object to the latter, you cannot object to the former.
To the rest of what you say here, I mostly agree:
"True justice for any accused citizen (including a former President) should always be applied fairly."
One hundred percent this. Trump is entitled to his day(s) in court on the legal presumption of innocence, and jurors need to abide by that in order to avoid a kangaroo court. And, they will. Jurors will convict or exonerate Trump based on the evidence, not personal love or hatred. Some juries get verdicts wrong in hindsight, but most get it right, in my opinion.
If the jury declares him not guilty, I'll accept that as his legal exoneration, free to run for office and all that.
But my personal opinion remains that he will be found guilty of most of those charges, Elizabeth. I base that on having read all the indictments and verdicts of cases in which I choose to comment--ALL of the Trump indictments; Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha; several shootings of black Americans by police--and comparing it to the evidence and legal arguments (and videos) available online.
They convince me that Trump will be convicted on most--but not all--counts in all the indictments. Since I am not a juror, I have every right to say that publicly, and will. Those who think he's not guilty of anything but "mean Tweets" have spent years saying the opposite with nobody questioning their right to say so.
I hesitated to respond to you, but thought better. I agree that anyone on this thread is entitled to his/her opinion and welcome the free exchange by all. My original comment was a response to a poster who claimed that Trump was “guilty as hell” and was questioning why everyone else hadn’t shared his conclusion. I offered that most people are “fair minded” and will wait for a fair legal process to conclude before agreeing with him. Those people know that rumor, propaganda and baseless accusations are being leaked by corrupt government institutions to an equally willing media who are giddy to present them to the public and destroy the fair defense of an accused defendant.
You claim, in your sarcastic response that you have special access to so called facts that if are revealed in a courtroom will convict Trump. If that is the case then you make my point about corruption. No one outside of those entrusted with confidential reports containing so called evidentiary facts should be sharing them with you. Unless, of course, you are working on the legal case. If you are, you certainly should not be personally commenting on a public forum claiming you know a defendant is guilty.
I don’t know what your credentials are to make these claims, but seems a bit foolhardy to risk your reputation this way. The only other thing I will say, is you have no idea who is reading your comments. Many of the commentators on Substack are educated professionals with inside experience or knowledge of privileged information. They tend to be able to make their points with way more discretion than you do.
I'm glad you responded, Elizabeth. My thoughts on your comments:
1. "You claim in your sarcastic response . . ."
I wasn't being sarcastic. It was a serious response.
2. ". . . that you have special access to so-called facts that if revealed in a courtroom will convict Trump."
That is not remotely what I said; that is only your spin on what I said. I wrote this: "I have the luxury of knowing evidence that might or might not be admitted." We ALL have that luxury, Elizabeth, because we read and watch everything offered up by news and social media. That means we will know not only what jurors get to see when the trails begin, we know all the back story, context, and gossip that jurors may or may not be allowed to see. So I have no "special access," I'm seeing everything that you are thanks to media coverage.
Including all the indictment documents. Those are what tell me me Trump will be found guilty of most of the charges. The indictment charges are factual, legally sound, and supported by evidence. I don't see how he escapes.
That makes all your remaining points against me, from "way more discretion than you do" to "unless, of course, you are working on the legal case." I'm not involved with any of this, and never claimed I was.
Honestly, if I WERE working on this case, I wouldn't have enough time to breathe, let alone write thousands of words on The Free Press. Not enough time in the world.
"My original comment was a response to a poster who claimed that Trump was “guilty as hell” and was questioning why everyone else hadn’t shared his conclusion."
We agree that's a bit over-the-top. I believe Trump is guilty because I read all the indictments and have kept up with the videos and audio comments Trump himself made proving the governments' cases. But I never question someone insisting the opposite. We have no idea which way the juries will rule--entirely guilty, entirely not guilty, or guilty of some but not the rest. My conclusion is based on what I read; jurors may conclude something quite different. He might be exonerated on every charge in three different cases on three different topics!
I just wouldn't count on it if I were betting on the odds.
And to you, Elizabeth. We're all slightly misreading others' posts and responding based on that, so continuing to talk it through is such a blessing to clarity. Happy Thanksgiving!
What Kool-Aid? I said a number of times on this forum that Kyle Rittenhouse should be exonerated because the evidence--including the NYT video analysis--proved the shootings were justifiable self-defense, not murder. The court agreed with me.
I didn't say a word about high-profile police killings other than "I read the indictments and evidence in . . . . several shootings of black Americans by police." That's a fact, not a conclusion about any of the verdicts.
But since you brought it up, most of the high-profile police killings WERE justified. Three were not: George Floyd, killed from a police knee-hold that should have been released much earlier; Breonna Taylor, shot in a wrong-address raid by cops who sprayed the entire apartment complex with bullets, killing her; and Daunte Wright, killed by a cop who thought she was firing her Taser but it was her real gun.
The laughing and pointing seems to be aimed at you, mate. You want to "get" me, you need to up your game.
I think many pro Trump people are really anti Deep State more than anything. JFK’s decision to allow Federal workers to unionize (FDR was strongly opposed to this for self-evident reasons) has proven to be calamitous to good governance in D.C.
You people just can’t accept that democrats are liars and evil because you voted that way so long. This article should show you why. But you are too brainwashed.
Maybe it is a fight fire with fire scenario then. I think the unelected, unaccountable career bureaucrats in the executive branch are the true threat to the Republic. And they are not loyal to ANY duly elected President. As evidenced in spades this week with all the letters condemning the very malleable one they ordained. I do not see any one other than Trump with the will to bring them to heel.
This is where we disagree. I don't think Trump produced the climate. I think the career bureaucrats in the executive branch produced it. I think at this point Trump has more awareness of that than most anybody in the country and knowledge is power. Think about it - the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story (coupled, maybe, the covid misinformation ) by those bureaucrats means that they hand-picked their boss, President Joe Biden. Not that they believed in him, they just knew he would be easy to manipulate. Now they are turning on him as evidenced by those letters critiquing his position on Israel. Constitutionally speaking, executive branch employees serve the executive - the President. And far, far too many of them are no longer loyal thereto. Congress is AWOL and has been for decades. That means this country is being ruled - ruled, not governrd - by executive mandates drawn up by people not accountable to the President, much less you or me. I say give Trump his shot at them. They are a true threat to the Republic. He can only do one term anyway. Then we can move forward.
Lynne, they’ve all unionized. They’re going nowhere. Only a consensus in Washington can change that, and Trump is not capable of developing such a consensus.
I thought that he could not create consensus as well. But my mind has been changed by realizing the efforts taken to silence him. It is extraordinary and there for all to see. And I think there are like-minded people who would vote for his policies. More importantly if enough like-minded people are elected to Congress he would sign appropriate policy initiatives. I'll remind you that the deficit is on its way to $34,000,000,000,000,000 and the interest has just passed the amount spent on defense. Those career bureaucrats I am concerned about are fine with that. We need elected leadership with gonads. Figuratively, not literally. I would like to see Tulsi Gabbard in the mix. I would donate to her if she ran against that odious Maisie creature. Better Trump thana civil war IMO. Again, realistically he can only serve 4 years. Let him have it. IMO he has earned it.
Edited to say: yes they are unionized which renders them.all powerful to politicians beholden to unions. But they can go somewhere. They can.be sent to Sioux City. And Tallahassee. And Huntsville. And Lexington. And Tulsa. And Houston. And St Louis. And Salt Lake City. They can be spread very thin. And a functio ING Congress could use the power granted it in the Constitution and cut funding.
That's a fair comment - the assault on Trump and his presidency is unprecedented. And, yes, interest expense, now over $1T from $300k only a few years ago, is just getting going. If these idiot kids were better educated, they'd be out in the streets protesting the debt their parents and grandparents have allowed to be heaped onto their generation instead of their "From the River to the Sea..." nonsense.
Trump's certainly not responsible for the entirety of the climate. But he loves to sow chaos.
I see what you're saying. But I just don't want four more years of him. I'm exhausted just thinking about it. And if he really cared about more than himself, he would anoint someone with less baggage from the current roster and just step back. I don't think he really expected to win the first time. Does he even really want it now? Or is this just his inability to....
I think he is all in and to quit is not in his nature. I think he thrives on it. I also think it is taking a toll on him. My personal favorite is Pompeo. He is very no nonsense in a very nice way. But back to Trump. You say you do not want more chaos. That was the excuse people used when they voted for Biden. They wanted unity. But what we got was not unity. We got weakness and corruption which resulted in chaos the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime. I like DeSantis but he is too earnest which means he can be played. Haley is a Republican Hilary Clinton. Christie is a Republican Joe Biden. I will not vote for the Uniparty. Ramaswamy may well be a future President but IMO he would be devoured by the existing DC climate. Let Trump have his day. He was cheated out of it in 2020 and had he not been we would not be where we are today.
"He was cheated out of it in 2020" only in the sense that the DOJ and media didn't do their job, and so people didn't vote as knowledgeably as they might have done. Trump was not "cheated" in the vote tallies, at least in any meaningful way. My opinion.
Vote tally interference would mean fraud at the state level. And that has not been established. Of course there is a credibility of investigation question. But it was not just government actors in the DOJ. It went beyond that and far beyond not doing their job. They installed Joseph Biden as the President of the United States of America. Which is why I said cheated. I am pretty precise with my language and I stand by my comment.
Absolutely. But my experience of the other side is a complete hypocrisy and unwillingness to judge “their” guy objectively. Those willing to judge Trump from the right side look for a corresponding willingness on the other side to judge Biden.
Most fair minded people wouldn’t touch Donald Trump with a 10 foot pole. They are sick of Biden and Trump and would love nothing more than to see a new name on the ballot.
This is too important an election to consider voting for a third party. I would bet my bottom dollar that these third partiers are being backed by deep pocketed Republicans who have no qualm about destroying our Republic. Probably the best kept secret since who assassinated Kennedy. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for fascism.
I would argue that there are not actually many fascists in America. Classical fascism would be right wing socialist, and we don’t have any main stream parties like that. Hitler and Mussolini were all about government control, which Republicans are not. Democrats are more in favor of government control, but obviously not having the extreme right wing views.
Aside from Antifa’s paranoid view, there just doesn’t seem to be anyone in the US who fits the mold.
I totally disagree. The self-serving political duopoly must be humbled at the ballot box. Independents are by far the largest “party” already. We have to stop falling for this narrative that the other party is evil.
At least you would know who’s making decisions! Between Biden’s speech writing committee and Trump’s inner 3 year old, we have no idea what’s going to be said in the next 5 minutes.
I agree with you about execution of policy. I just also agree with about 90% of the people who USED to work with him who are now “losers” like Rex Tillerson, John Kelly and Nikki Haley.
Unfortunately, Trump doesn’t seem to be able to handle having two functioning brains in the same room. When someone disagrees with him, he throws a tantrum, calls them a bunch of names, and acts like a jerk until he gets his way.
Also:
“The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, found that 53% of Americans say they would definitely not support Trump if he is the Republican nominee next year”
In addition, only 37% of Republicans thought Trump has done the best job as president over the last 40 years. (More thought Reagan was better, so your views are the minority of a minority)
In about a year, we will know who is delusional, but I don’t think it’s me. If you’re wrong, I guess you can go storm the Capitol again.
Simply referring to "storm the Capitol" shows who is delusional. The endless hours of video, previously concealed by Pelosi but just released, prove beyond any possible doubt that the few violent clashes on Jan 6 were the tiny exception, and that the overwhelming majority of Jan 6 demonstrators were orderly, peaceful, interacting politely with Capitol police, and far less of a threat than any of the Democrats' pet "peaceful protesters" over the past four years, from BLM and Antifa to today's ignorant and demented pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic mobs.
Yes, it makes you wonder how anyone can even use a phase like "storm the Capitol" since the actual footage has been released. It reflects a steely determination to stick with an ideological viewpoint and to reject all evidence that utterly refutes it.
Good points, Chuck: and let us all now wait for the actual criminal trials, each one of them, where the evidence will be presented calmly in the room, and the juries will decide. If the Trumpistas STILL say he’s being persecuted if any (or all) of the juries vote to convict, then there is nothing more to be said. They would be beyond reason, and Trump is a cult.
An intelligent article apart from the following stupid statement:
"Meanwhile, battle-scarred Donald Trump is a heavy favorite to become the Republican presidential candidate: this would pit a septuagenarian against an octogenarian in the 2024 contest, each of whom can be expected, if he wins, to try to put the other in jail. It’s enough to make one wonder whether the Zoomers have a point."
If you want to encourage nihilism, then, conflating the persecution of Trump on blatantly contrived charges with the failure to prosecute Biden and Co despite overwhelming evidence, is a good way to continue the downhill slide. This is morally on a par with saying that both Hamas and the Israelis have killed people and both should stop.
Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to.
Morality? In this section I think he's saying we can just expect more inane battles between and about politicians from the same old farts when there are more important things at hand. Am I missing something, or did you bring a completely different axe to grind?
WOW! I did not think it was possible to fit that much nonsense in one essay . Martin Gurri is possibly the all- time honors graduate of the Israeli school of Hasbara. Indeed a master of sophistry .
Of course, it makes sense that he was an analyst at the CIA the ultimate specialists in deceit, trickery, disinformation, and Orwellian Newspeak. he starts off his piece by listing all the dastardly deeds that Hamas was said to have done
Most of which were debunked. There were no rapes. There were no babies burned in an oven nobody was tortured and most of the civilian deaths -as new information and data has come to light- we’re largely caused by the Israeli Air Force, striking the area indiscriminately killing Hamas resistance fighters as well as Israelis
There is undeniable truth, proof that Israel also strafed their own army base. Killing their own soldiers. They were conforming to the IDF policy called the Hannibal strategy. (You can Google it) where basically says it’s better to kill your own people and to have them become a liabilityIf they are taken hostage.
Then he takes liberty with reality by calling the protesters of the Israeli massacre that has been ongoing for over 40 days as supporters of Hamas. The millions of people that showed up because of the unspeakable heinous actions of Israel against the people of Gaza
Official numbers to date are over 13,000 civilians and approximately 6000 children have been murdered by Israel. Its bombing up hospitals, schools, churches, masks, and civilians fleeing from north to south can be characterized as pure evil. The cutting off of water, Internet, food, medical supplies fuel is considered war crimes as many organizations have deemed it to be the United Nations Amnesty International,American Friends, Human Rights Watch , B’Tselem, JVP , If Not Now Red Cross , Save the Children Doctors Without Borders as well all those who have eyes and a brain. Mr Gurri the alchemist has managed to turn the millions of peaceful protesters against the continued genocide(look it up it’s what Israel is perpetrating )into supporters of terrorism. a majority of the world is in shock, and awe by Israel’s relentless cruelty.
Yet he insists on having you believe that what you see is false. That is an amazing feat, especially in this age of communication.
Unlike other historical crimes, such as the Holocaust, Cambodian killing fields Mao Tse Tungs cultural revolution ,the Armenian genocide etal. This particular event is being”televised”
you have people like Mr. Gurrii disingenuously spewing alternative facts and asking you to believe him. Yes you can believe him or you can believe your own eyes -you pick .
Sent from my brain
Funny I thought that was the best line in the whole article
“the persecution of Trump on blatantly contrived charges with the failure to prosecute Biden and Co despite overwhelming evidence”
Both statements are wild oversimplification and demonstrably false.
There is some evidence of wrongdoing on both Trump and Biden. Gurri’s point is accurate in that electing either one of them will do nothing but continue to make these legal issues the focus of either administration when there are many more larger issues to tackle.
Sam, if you back and watch an address by Eisenhower or watch a debate between Reagan and Bush, Sr., it's painfully obvious how inept and inarticulate our leaders are today.
Many people despise Trump because he is not articulate, and they would prefer to have someone well-spoken with refined manners representing them on the international stage. Nevertheless, while Trump may be inarticulate, he can hardly be accused of being inept. Consider a few details: Trump facilitated peace agreements between Israel and four neighboring Arab countries—the first and only President to achieve that in the past 75 years. He cut off funding to Iran and had them on the ropes, whereas Biden just sent them $8,000,000,000 with more on the way. No new foreign wars started on his watch. Hamas knew better than to invade Israel while he was in office. Gas prices were way lower, and inflation was not an issue. I could go on, but the point is this: There is a huge difference between being inarticulate and being inept, and people tend to overlook this all-important distinction.
Sam, sorry to rain on your “greatest hits” parade but: Kushner’s peace deal looked great except that it played to his Orthodox Jews mates (read, settlers) and totally ignored the Palestinians...and stored up the resentments for the explosion on October 7;
Obama recognised the harsh reality that even the US’s bunker buster bombs would not reach the Iranians’ underground nuclear facilities so he had to negotiate. The $6billion (not $8 bn) is Iran’s own money, frozen in South Korea for years; Biden reasoned that he could release it to a safe account in Qatar in return for Iran’s release of six U.S. hostages. Naive perhaps, but what would you have had him do?
No new wars? Well done! But Trump set the terms of the Afghanistan withdrawal and handed that poisoned chalice on to Biden, and he backed Bibi all the way, so much that Bibi and his ultra right wing fanatics are arguably as much to blame for October 7 as is Hamas, by provocation and negligence rather than intent.
That’s an easy slur to sling about. I’m not anti-Semitic, I am anti-settler and anti-Bibi. The difference should be obvious.
Short, sweet and to the point. Thanks for a good chuckle!
Great point, MC. It’s humbling to go even farther back and see how many of our former presidents were incredibly articulate, thoughtful and well-read compared to many of the grifter-politicians of today.
Of course, we all agree with common sense issues, as long as they flatter our tribe. Anything against our tribe (in this case, the Cult of Trump) is “stupid”. Yes, I tend to be less optimistic than the author of the article.
I thought it was insulting tripe. The media leap. The Republican Party is a label.masquerading as an organization. Mike Johnson is a "generic" name is a pretty telling statement. As is previously only famous to his family. Tripe. Tripe. And more tripe.
I agree. Not sure why the author decided to attach Mike Johnson for not being famous. Why would any party want to select a speaker on how famous they are?
Because they view the world as a popularity contest which is nothing more than a numbers game. Which is dehumanizing.
Trump HAS been persecuted in some ways. Trump is also guilty as hell, on many charges.
Why is that not obvious to everyone, at this point?
Guilty of what charges? How do you know this?
Oh bull. Guilty of what?
Trump is "guilty as hell" of what exactly? We're all aware of the flimsy accusations by his enemies, so go ahead and tell us what, exactly, his incontrovertible crimes are.
He's guilty of crimes of law and "crimes" against the republic. The latter don't matter in court, but they are of far greater consequence: He lost, but wouldn't concede that he lost even when it was "incontrovertible" to everyone including himself.
Of the 90+ charges against him (since the last election; I'm not counting his innumerable run-in's with the law as a private citizen nor before the 2020 election), two stand out to me.
First, he defied a federal subpoena to submit secret documents, then tried to hide them. That's criminal, and arguments about that he SHOULD have been able to keep them are irrelevant. He defied the law.
Second, he used extra-legal means to try to change the results of the election. Bullshit judicial lawsuits? Fine. He tried, he lost, whatever. Twisting arms of executive branch people like the GA guv? Nope.
"Trump is also guilty as hell, on many charges. Why is that not obvious to everyone, at this point?"
Well, let me count the ways. The massive investigation of his "Russia Collusion" came up empty-handed after two years and a zillion dollars wasted. And the source of the funds for producing the phony Steele Dossier was eventually traced to the DNC. And the FISA warrant that was obtained to spy on Trump—both before and after he was already in office—was obtained fraudulently. These are facts, not opinions. So, there is ample evidence that Trump's political enemies have not hesitated to use every dirty trick in the book to undermine him and falsely accuse him.
That's why I'm a bit suspicious when I see him indicted by left-wing activist prosecutors and judges who could have brought up these charges against him two or three years ago—but instead chose to wait until election season to force him to waste his time and effort defending himself instead of campaigning for the Presidency.
Why is that not obvious to everyone, at this point?
You can't charge a sitting President.
Ok, fine, but none of that makes Trump LESS guilty for other things.
Everyone is stuck in this binary trap. "His enemies are horrible, so Trump must be...."
Or "Trump is a liar and a horrible human, so the DOJ and media must always be right that...."
Nope. Neither one.
Being 'obvious' is not how our law system works. But if it IS obvious, it should be super easy to show things like evidence and then convict. that fact that the trials don't seem to be doing this might indicate that while it may SEEM obvious, there may not be much to actually PROOVE that it is obvious....which is what is needed to convict someone.
Meet back here in two years?
My two cents:
I'm sorry, but this ongoing concept that "Trump is guilty" is confusing. Guilty of what? He is persecuted relentlessly and has been for the past 8 years, since he announced his run in 2015. Of the 91 charges against him, and 4 + indictments and other multiple charges, there is no sane person that should feel Trump is guilty, of any CRIME. He is in some folks minds, guilty of being brash, saying some mean things, and certainly being Pro-America. I am Pro-America too, and I am proud of that. I stand for our national anthem, and say the pledge of allegiance. I raised our kids with strong moral values and honesty, (I hope those stick), and I fly our American flag on our house every day.
Are we perfect in all ways in America, certainly not, if hind-sight is the measure of perfection. I prefer to acknowledge that we have erred in some ways during the past 250 years of our existence. I compare what we do and have done, to what other countries "do and have done" and we should continue to learn from our mistakes.
I see the broad success we have enjoyed as a country, as well as the hurt we have caused to some of our population. Today it is popular to "swing the pendulum" back the other way, and try to placate all the victims who have been or perceive they were wronged. I say, "man up", "show some sack" , "pull your head out of your ass" and get to work.
If you break a law, you should be punished for that. If you don't like a law, use our process to get it changed, not just evaded or ignored.
Latest news is the rash of personal bankruptcy filings by supposed "adults" to avoid paying off their student loans. Happening why? because our current admin could not shove a mass loan waiver thru, so now student loans can be grounds for filing bankruptcy, when student loans were previously exempt from this option. It is another way to placate supposed victims, despite their own ignorance of business and "how it works" and has worked for many years. The real issue is with colleges and their cost structure.
The Israeli - Hamas war is another example, in my mind of trying to placate Gaza "victims". Jews have been trashed and spit upon for hundreds of years. The Jewish nation were given, fought wars and won those wars, to keep their country/state of Israel. Now the Palestinians cry victim, even as they gave control of their lives over to Hamas. Gazans, if they really don't like Hamas, should be helping the IDF root out and finish Hamas as a leadership. Hamas only knows violence, and it shows. Yet many young Americans support Hamas, which is confounding to me. History is there, read it (before wikipedia gets their keyboard on it) and understand history, and perhaps folks will have a change of view in many areas of our world.
sincerely rich
Richard, by your comments you seem to be a considered, reasonable man, so I’m puzzled how you can possibly say Trump has committed no crimes. He took Top Secret documents (including war plans on how to deal with Iran), lied about what he’d taken, refused to return them when asked and then showed them around at his NJ country club to other members. Even his arch lackey Bill Barr has said he is cooked on this charge. Then in Georgia, “find me 11,000 votes”. On tape. If you think that is not interference with an election, please tell me what it takes to ever do so. And I’ll not even start on January 6, 2021. Or do you think that what he did was NOT incitement?
I’m puzzled.
hi
you as are others, are entitled to your opinions, re Trump and anything else.
Re the Docs case, as I understand it, A sitting President alone, can decide what is classified or NOT. Trump said he declassified the docs he possessed. NARA wanted them back. There is no accurate way to account for what or when a doc is declassified apparently. So it is a he said-she said issue. What is clear re classified docs; Biden, Pence, Clinton were all unable to declassify the docs they possesed, as they did not hold the office of President. WHY is there no prosecution of these folks/situations? Re war plans on "How to deal with Iran", maybe Biden and Obama should read those and learn from their ongoing mistakes. Seems like Trump dealt with Iran quite effectively vs our current state...
Georgia, listen to the entire recording and not just "find me 11,000 votes", there is much more context and multiple people on the line who were involved. To indict 18 people or RICO charges is insane, and is being used to get one or more to flip on Trump. I find it highly unlikely there will come anything from Ellis or the others.
Yes, don't get me started on Jan 6. The rally was planned by a support group for Trump, and he was one of several speakers that day. Trump offered Natl Guard and addl security to Pelosi and Mayor Bow-wow-ser, who refused to accept the support. Even the Cap Police chief confirmed this offer of addl security. Listen to the entire speech and it is clear (to me and most logical listeners) that Trump advised marchers to go "Peacefully and Patriotically" and let your voices be heard. He is not the reason folks became violent and skirmishes broke out that day. He perhaps could have stepped in earlier to calm things, but he did not. Does not make him guilty of anything. What should piss folks off, are the 500+ riots during 2020 re Floyd and the fallout from that. $1.5 billion in damages alone, vs $1.5 mil in est damages to the capitol,,, wow. 22 people and police killed in the 2020 riots. One person, Ashley Babbit murdered by a DC policeman Byrd,( with no open investigation of his actions) , with no other deaths or significant injuries on Jan 6. The livelihoods and families ruined by the 2020 riots is the real crime, and virtually no one held accountable for any of that. The 1000+ people investigated after Jan 6, is the other crime here. Some still in jail and have not had a trial.
And yes, I feel the capitol was full of antifa and other instigators trying to make the day turn out worse than it did.
take care
rich
"Of the 91 charges against him, and 4 + indictments and other multiple charges, there is no sane person that should feel Trump is guilty, of any CRIME."
I'm quite sane, and believe Trump is guilty not of just some of these charges, but almost all of them.
Since neither you nor I are his judge and jury, however, I am willing to wait for both to pronounce his guilt or lack thereof. Why aren't you?
I appreciate your question Shane. You seem to be a very thoughtful participant in these exchanges on TFP. Your beliefs are yours, and you are entitled to them.
I will not debate if your "sanity" is in play here. This figure of speech I used ("no sane person") has been around for ages, and I can use it as I see fit, and today I believe it fits quite well in the many cases re Trump.
You also state your opinion re Trump's guilt of the charges, and it seems you, as with me, are NOT waiting for the pronouncements.
As you ask me, why are you not waiting for all these accusations to play out? In the meantime, my comment stands.
My biggest issue is the double standards we are seeing in all of these charges being tossed at Trump. ie Civil suit in NYC, "documents case", questioning voting processes in GA, inciting Jan 6 protests/riot etc.
For example, The first case in NYC, a civil lawsuit, is a sham to me. There had not been one witness called, no complainants came forward crying "foul" , nor any other evidence presented to the public, before Engoron "ruled" that the Trump Corp/Family had committed fraud. The judge alone determined there was fraud. Legal scholars have all said, "there has to be a victim of fraud, for fraud to occur". Now we are in the penalty phase of the case, and the judge is considering how much $ the State of NY will get from Trump Corp. I will say again, would any sane person think this is legitimate? I sure don't, as well as with the other cases coming our way.
take care
rich
Thanks for this, Rich, I appreciate your graciousness and the compliment, and hope to return both here.
You make a good and fair point--since we are both stating personal opinions about Trump's guilt or lack thereof, I cannot claim I'm "waiting for the court to decide." My bad, you're right. And stating such is appropriate. As I told Elizabeth elsewhere, we are neither the judge nor jurors, so we can issue personal opinions as we deem appropriate.
On the tax fraud case:
"Legal scholars have all said, "there has to be a victim of fraud, for fraud to occur.'" Yes, and there was a victim: the State of New York. It lost millions of property tax revenue when the Trump Organization's misstated the value of its properties in New York, and it sued to get the money it was owed.
The evidence was in the documents provided by the Trump Organization, so there's no question of authenticity: T.O. provided an inflated set of assessments to the banks in order to secure loans, while giving county tax assessors in New York deflated assessments in order to reduce T.O.'s tax bill.
The state argued that action was tax fraud and filed suit. The judge issued summary judgment based on those numbers--the legal equivalent of "you can't have it both ways"--which he has the absolute power to do.
So I stand behind my judgement that sane people can and do believe this court action is legitimate, that T.O. was fairly convicted of tax fraud (civil court, not criminal), and that T.O. should be required to pay its back taxes with penalties, as anyone else convicted of tax fraud is required.
As for the criminal cases, I find nothing illegitimate. Trump may or may not be convicted on any charge; nobody knows what the juries will do. But the state fairly indicted him and scheduled him for trial.
I said "fairly" because I read the indictments and charging documents when they were issued. I find them very detailed and legally sound. Both state and federal prosecutors used grand juries instead of direct charges, further protection for defendant Trump against prosecutorial misconduct. The feds and Georgia made strong enough cases for me to conclude Trump will be found guilty of most of the charges in all three cases.
My conclusion that Trump is guilty does not stem from my personal dislike of him. I didn't personally like Kyle Rittenhouse, either, but I posted my opinion before his trial that the man was NOT guilty of homicide in Kenosha, because the evidence and videos overwhelming indicated his shootings were self-defense, not crimes.
So yes, you are free to say Trump is not guilty of anything, I am free to say he is, and I was too inartful in challenging the "sane" comment. Again, thanks for your graciousness and compliment, I appreciate both. Happy Thanksgiving.
Back at ya, thanks for the reply,
re the NYC tax case. i did not see the judges rulings specifically, What is off to me is this, the state I live in has a tax assessors office, as does every state and city in the US, I believe. The typical tax assessor does not leave it up to the tax paying entity (TO) to declare the value of its assets, and pay the tax on those stated values. My tax office sends out annual tax bills, based on the values they come up with. I pay as noted, or I am able to contest. I dont think NYC is any different.
RE the other side of the coin, inflating values to "get better loan rates or lower insurance etc", to me, is absurd. Same thing applies to me as to the TO. I apply for a loan or insurance etc, and the lender is not obligated or compelled to accept my valuation and base my interest rate or collateral on my figures. They do their own assessment of their valuation, I negotiate, agree or contest and see what happens. example from this NYC case which the judge/Engoron is using to leverage his ruling: Mar a Lago was valued at $18mil by the judge/court in NYC. I don't live in west palm, and "I'm not a smart man", but that valuation is BS to any sane person.
Re timing of these tax issues, I believe they are also outside of the statute of limitations for federal tax penalties, not sure to be honest. Consider what the IRS and the "special prosecutor" Weiss is trying to do for Hunter Biden and his tax issues, drag the case on long enough for the statute to run out. Without the two IRS agents coming forward, this issue would have gone into the ether.
the other cases I guess we will see what happens.
til then
all around, it stinks to me.
No longer a Trump fan here but do tell how you come to the belief that he is guilty of "almost all of them"?
Thanks for the gratuitous willingness to wait for verdicts.
You're welcome. Glad to be of service.
"[Trump] is in some folks minds, guilty of being brash, saying some mean things, and certainly being Pro-America."
That's the only reason he is being persecuted—for being pro-America. That's it.
(On bankruptcy, Trump's hotel and casino businesses were declared bankrupt four times between 1991 and 2009.)
No he was persecuted for threatening the Swamp. And it needs to be drained.
Trump c;laimed he was, among a myriad of other things, going to "drain the swamp." The swamp still stinks and needs draining, and it's never going to happen.
Because the swamp fought back. From.day 1. I am certain that is why his second term had to be derailed at all costs. At least we can put names and faces to the swamp creatures now. People think Trump is some sort of tyrant, but consider if you will swamp creature Comey slithering in to the oval and after a meeting saying "A word in private Mr. President". Then telling him about the Steel dossier including pee tape story S if it were genuine. When swamp creature Comey knew that it was paid for by Hilary Clinton. It was a Machiavelian tactic to divert Trump from.the real wrongs being done. This followed by four years of the Russia collusion myth. If you do not understand that the executive branch career bureaucrats are rotten and need to go, I can't help you. Trump is the only one who can drain it. Haley and Christie are swamp creature wannabees. DeSantis is too nice. Ditto Ramaswamy, plus wholly inexperienced.
re the bankrupcy(cies). the law is or was in place to allow that. If the law was bad, or is bad, lobby to change it. Simply having the Biden admin waive the law, is not the way things are done. This latest effort to wipe away student debt, taken on knowingly, will be struck down in my opinion. thanks rich
Because most fair minded people know that the so called evidence used against him is contrived by a “deep state” of dirty power hungry players willing to compromise the American justice system in order to bar anyone they deem unfit for the Oval Office. If it weren’t Trump it would be any free citizen who dared aspire to lead the country.
People who believe in Justice, await for evidence obtained legally and presented in an unbiased forum so hey can make one’s own rational conclusions. Thank God for fair minded citizens who know that the American media serves as a propagandist arm of our “unjust” DOJ leaders. They know that the corrupt media have succeeded in convincing the public (you included) that Trump is “guilty as hell.” Your comment is a prime example of such broken institutions.
I know!! The poor man!! All those top-secret classified documents Trump moved to Mar-a-Lago and defended as "mine and mine alone?" It's a contrivance of the "deep state" that employs jackbooted thugs with black helicopters to whisk Trump to a FEMA re-education camp to silence him! He didn't take any classified docs, those videos and photographs and voice recordings are Deep Fakes by Big Tech on the Payroll of Demoncrats!
But puzzle me this: if the Justice Department was silencing him, why won't he shut up?
Oh please. You please. Are you people totally without reasoning power? A free society has free e press ion, free and fair elections and wait for it equal treatment under the law. Thanks to leftists we have none of that. Get real.
Wow, you really make my point. This isn’t about Trump at all. You can hate him if you want. I understand the visceral reaction; we are all human. I have the same feeling every time I hear Hillary Clinton comment on anything. My comment was about blind justice. Because the media feeds the public a soundbite without context, or staged photos of supposed evidence, the public has already convicted the accused. True justice for any accused citizen (including a former President) should always be applied fairly.
Exactly the point. Free and fair elections,freedom of speech and equal treatment under the law. People better see leftists gave no intention of Amy if the above.
Would Leftists like to change some our freedoms? Of course. So would Rightists. It doesn't mean they can. Our freedom of speech remains robust. Elections are free and fair. Equal treatment under the law? Not so much, since the law treats the rich far better than the poor.
Not sure what planet you live on. I taught at a university and everything in this article is true. Elections are NOT free and fair and it's clear we don't have equal treatment under the law. Bari worked on the Biden administration censoring what they knew was true. Get real.
I live on Planet Earth. Given your insults, I'd say you're mayor of Planet Asshole.
Asking what planet you live on makes me an asshole? Hardly.
Justice isn't blind. It can only be fair, because jurors live in the real world, absorb tons of media, and in the trial of a President, can't enter a courtroom "blind." Unless they've been living on remote islands with no media, they will have a personal opinion on the matter. Their job is to suppress that and look only at the evidence presented in court. I have the luxury of knowing evidence that might or might not be admitted. Which is why I can confidently predict convictions--I've seen enough facts to know it's going to happen, and unless a judge suppresses the admission of those facts, Trump will be found guilty.
I'm not rendering a legal verdict here on The FP. I'm proffering my opinion on whether he will be convicted. I have as much right to do that as Trumpers have to insist the opposite is true, that he will be exonerated. If you didn't object to the latter, you cannot object to the former.
To the rest of what you say here, I mostly agree:
"True justice for any accused citizen (including a former President) should always be applied fairly."
One hundred percent this. Trump is entitled to his day(s) in court on the legal presumption of innocence, and jurors need to abide by that in order to avoid a kangaroo court. And, they will. Jurors will convict or exonerate Trump based on the evidence, not personal love or hatred. Some juries get verdicts wrong in hindsight, but most get it right, in my opinion.
If the jury declares him not guilty, I'll accept that as his legal exoneration, free to run for office and all that.
But my personal opinion remains that he will be found guilty of most of those charges, Elizabeth. I base that on having read all the indictments and verdicts of cases in which I choose to comment--ALL of the Trump indictments; Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha; several shootings of black Americans by police--and comparing it to the evidence and legal arguments (and videos) available online.
They convince me that Trump will be convicted on most--but not all--counts in all the indictments. Since I am not a juror, I have every right to say that publicly, and will. Those who think he's not guilty of anything but "mean Tweets" have spent years saying the opposite with nobody questioning their right to say so.
I hesitated to respond to you, but thought better. I agree that anyone on this thread is entitled to his/her opinion and welcome the free exchange by all. My original comment was a response to a poster who claimed that Trump was “guilty as hell” and was questioning why everyone else hadn’t shared his conclusion. I offered that most people are “fair minded” and will wait for a fair legal process to conclude before agreeing with him. Those people know that rumor, propaganda and baseless accusations are being leaked by corrupt government institutions to an equally willing media who are giddy to present them to the public and destroy the fair defense of an accused defendant.
You claim, in your sarcastic response that you have special access to so called facts that if are revealed in a courtroom will convict Trump. If that is the case then you make my point about corruption. No one outside of those entrusted with confidential reports containing so called evidentiary facts should be sharing them with you. Unless, of course, you are working on the legal case. If you are, you certainly should not be personally commenting on a public forum claiming you know a defendant is guilty.
I don’t know what your credentials are to make these claims, but seems a bit foolhardy to risk your reputation this way. The only other thing I will say, is you have no idea who is reading your comments. Many of the commentators on Substack are educated professionals with inside experience or knowledge of privileged information. They tend to be able to make their points with way more discretion than you do.
I'm glad you responded, Elizabeth. My thoughts on your comments:
1. "You claim in your sarcastic response . . ."
I wasn't being sarcastic. It was a serious response.
2. ". . . that you have special access to so-called facts that if revealed in a courtroom will convict Trump."
That is not remotely what I said; that is only your spin on what I said. I wrote this: "I have the luxury of knowing evidence that might or might not be admitted." We ALL have that luxury, Elizabeth, because we read and watch everything offered up by news and social media. That means we will know not only what jurors get to see when the trails begin, we know all the back story, context, and gossip that jurors may or may not be allowed to see. So I have no "special access," I'm seeing everything that you are thanks to media coverage.
Including all the indictment documents. Those are what tell me me Trump will be found guilty of most of the charges. The indictment charges are factual, legally sound, and supported by evidence. I don't see how he escapes.
That makes all your remaining points against me, from "way more discretion than you do" to "unless, of course, you are working on the legal case." I'm not involved with any of this, and never claimed I was.
Honestly, if I WERE working on this case, I wouldn't have enough time to breathe, let alone write thousands of words on The Free Press. Not enough time in the world.
"My original comment was a response to a poster who claimed that Trump was “guilty as hell” and was questioning why everyone else hadn’t shared his conclusion."
We agree that's a bit over-the-top. I believe Trump is guilty because I read all the indictments and have kept up with the videos and audio comments Trump himself made proving the governments' cases. But I never question someone insisting the opposite. We have no idea which way the juries will rule--entirely guilty, entirely not guilty, or guilty of some but not the rest. My conclusion is based on what I read; jurors may conclude something quite different. He might be exonerated on every charge in three different cases on three different topics!
I just wouldn't count on it if I were betting on the odds.
I appreciate your response as well Shane. Your points are well taken and thanks for the clarification. Peace to you.
And to you, Elizabeth. We're all slightly misreading others' posts and responding based on that, so continuing to talk it through is such a blessing to clarity. Happy Thanksgiving!
What Kool-Aid? I said a number of times on this forum that Kyle Rittenhouse should be exonerated because the evidence--including the NYT video analysis--proved the shootings were justifiable self-defense, not murder. The court agreed with me.
I didn't say a word about high-profile police killings other than "I read the indictments and evidence in . . . . several shootings of black Americans by police." That's a fact, not a conclusion about any of the verdicts.
But since you brought it up, most of the high-profile police killings WERE justified. Three were not: George Floyd, killed from a police knee-hold that should have been released much earlier; Breonna Taylor, shot in a wrong-address raid by cops who sprayed the entire apartment complex with bullets, killing her; and Daunte Wright, killed by a cop who thought she was firing her Taser but it was her real gun.
The laughing and pointing seems to be aimed at you, mate. You want to "get" me, you need to up your game.
I think many pro Trump people are really anti Deep State more than anything. JFK’s decision to allow Federal workers to unionize (FDR was strongly opposed to this for self-evident reasons) has proven to be calamitous to good governance in D.C.
People cannot grasp the notion that BOTH Trump and the DOJ/deep-state are rotten to the core.
Embrace the power of "AND"—it will set you free.
You people just can’t accept that democrats are liars and evil because you voted that way so long. This article should show you why. But you are too brainwashed.
I haven't voted for a Democrat since Jimmy Carter.
Maybe it is a fight fire with fire scenario then. I think the unelected, unaccountable career bureaucrats in the executive branch are the true threat to the Republic. And they are not loyal to ANY duly elected President. As evidenced in spades this week with all the letters condemning the very malleable one they ordained. I do not see any one other than Trump with the will to bring them to heel.
And how would Trump do that, legally? In the climate he has produced? If only.
This is where we disagree. I don't think Trump produced the climate. I think the career bureaucrats in the executive branch produced it. I think at this point Trump has more awareness of that than most anybody in the country and knowledge is power. Think about it - the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story (coupled, maybe, the covid misinformation ) by those bureaucrats means that they hand-picked their boss, President Joe Biden. Not that they believed in him, they just knew he would be easy to manipulate. Now they are turning on him as evidenced by those letters critiquing his position on Israel. Constitutionally speaking, executive branch employees serve the executive - the President. And far, far too many of them are no longer loyal thereto. Congress is AWOL and has been for decades. That means this country is being ruled - ruled, not governrd - by executive mandates drawn up by people not accountable to the President, much less you or me. I say give Trump his shot at them. They are a true threat to the Republic. He can only do one term anyway. Then we can move forward.
Lynne, they’ve all unionized. They’re going nowhere. Only a consensus in Washington can change that, and Trump is not capable of developing such a consensus.
I thought that he could not create consensus as well. But my mind has been changed by realizing the efforts taken to silence him. It is extraordinary and there for all to see. And I think there are like-minded people who would vote for his policies. More importantly if enough like-minded people are elected to Congress he would sign appropriate policy initiatives. I'll remind you that the deficit is on its way to $34,000,000,000,000,000 and the interest has just passed the amount spent on defense. Those career bureaucrats I am concerned about are fine with that. We need elected leadership with gonads. Figuratively, not literally. I would like to see Tulsi Gabbard in the mix. I would donate to her if she ran against that odious Maisie creature. Better Trump thana civil war IMO. Again, realistically he can only serve 4 years. Let him have it. IMO he has earned it.
Edited to say: yes they are unionized which renders them.all powerful to politicians beholden to unions. But they can go somewhere. They can.be sent to Sioux City. And Tallahassee. And Huntsville. And Lexington. And Tulsa. And Houston. And St Louis. And Salt Lake City. They can be spread very thin. And a functio ING Congress could use the power granted it in the Constitution and cut funding.
That's a fair comment - the assault on Trump and his presidency is unprecedented. And, yes, interest expense, now over $1T from $300k only a few years ago, is just getting going. If these idiot kids were better educated, they'd be out in the streets protesting the debt their parents and grandparents have allowed to be heaped onto their generation instead of their "From the River to the Sea..." nonsense.
Good point. I think you are on to something with what they should be protesting.
Trump's certainly not responsible for the entirety of the climate. But he loves to sow chaos.
I see what you're saying. But I just don't want four more years of him. I'm exhausted just thinking about it. And if he really cared about more than himself, he would anoint someone with less baggage from the current roster and just step back. I don't think he really expected to win the first time. Does he even really want it now? Or is this just his inability to....
I think he is all in and to quit is not in his nature. I think he thrives on it. I also think it is taking a toll on him. My personal favorite is Pompeo. He is very no nonsense in a very nice way. But back to Trump. You say you do not want more chaos. That was the excuse people used when they voted for Biden. They wanted unity. But what we got was not unity. We got weakness and corruption which resulted in chaos the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime. I like DeSantis but he is too earnest which means he can be played. Haley is a Republican Hilary Clinton. Christie is a Republican Joe Biden. I will not vote for the Uniparty. Ramaswamy may well be a future President but IMO he would be devoured by the existing DC climate. Let Trump have his day. He was cheated out of it in 2020 and had he not been we would not be where we are today.
"He was cheated out of it in 2020" only in the sense that the DOJ and media didn't do their job, and so people didn't vote as knowledgeably as they might have done. Trump was not "cheated" in the vote tallies, at least in any meaningful way. My opinion.
The two-party system is not working. I agree.
Vote tally interference would mean fraud at the state level. And that has not been established. Of course there is a credibility of investigation question. But it was not just government actors in the DOJ. It went beyond that and far beyond not doing their job. They installed Joseph Biden as the President of the United States of America. Which is why I said cheated. I am pretty precise with my language and I stand by my comment.
Absolutely. But my experience of the other side is a complete hypocrisy and unwillingness to judge “their” guy objectively. Those willing to judge Trump from the right side look for a corresponding willingness on the other side to judge Biden.
Just listen and read what Trump says. He convicts himself with his ignorance and predjudices. He doesn't have the intelligence of a pissant.
We’ll he’s smarter than you are.
Lots of people are. He might even be smarter than you are. "One never knows, do one?"
Nope, one never knows.
Most fair minded people wouldn’t touch Donald Trump with a 10 foot pole. They are sick of Biden and Trump and would love nothing more than to see a new name on the ballot.
You aren’t fair minded.
Agreed
This is too important an election to consider voting for a third party. I would bet my bottom dollar that these third partiers are being backed by deep pocketed Republicans who have no qualm about destroying our Republic. Probably the best kept secret since who assassinated Kennedy. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for fascism.
What garbage. Keep lapping up the kool side. It isn’t conservatives brainwashing our youth.
I would argue that there are not actually many fascists in America. Classical fascism would be right wing socialist, and we don’t have any main stream parties like that. Hitler and Mussolini were all about government control, which Republicans are not. Democrats are more in favor of government control, but obviously not having the extreme right wing views.
Aside from Antifa’s paranoid view, there just doesn’t seem to be anyone in the US who fits the mold.
You've had it too good for too long my friend.
I’m not trying to argue who is worse, I’m just saying that there isn’t a lot of room in our political spectrum for fascists.
I totally disagree. The self-serving political duopoly must be humbled at the ballot box. Independents are by far the largest “party” already. We have to stop falling for this narrative that the other party is evil.
God help the Republic.
My fear is those new names will be even worse.
Haley4president! Love her ❤️
Consider the third party option Manchin and Cheney
You must be freaking kidding.
At least you would know who’s making decisions! Between Biden’s speech writing committee and Trump’s inner 3 year old, we have no idea what’s going to be said in the next 5 minutes.
Cheney? The military industrial complex darling? Thanks but no thanks.
Lynne Cheney!
Lynne Cheney -- Dick's wife, Liz's mother -- actually seems like a pretty good person. Liz, however, needs to remain in her well-earned exile.
Don't you mean Liz Cheney?
Yes. LIZ Cheney who lost her RE election bid in Wyoming because she would not accept Trump’s behaviors. Thank you
I'm not a vengeful person by nature, but I have to confess that seeing Liz rejected by 70% of the public in her home state gave me a thrill.
You are quite welcome.
That's the one I was referring too. Ugh! (LC, not you.)
I agree with you about execution of policy. I just also agree with about 90% of the people who USED to work with him who are now “losers” like Rex Tillerson, John Kelly and Nikki Haley.
Unfortunately, Trump doesn’t seem to be able to handle having two functioning brains in the same room. When someone disagrees with him, he throws a tantrum, calls them a bunch of names, and acts like a jerk until he gets his way.
Also:
“The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, found that 53% of Americans say they would definitely not support Trump if he is the Republican nominee next year”
In addition, only 37% of Republicans thought Trump has done the best job as president over the last 40 years. (More thought Reagan was better, so your views are the minority of a minority)
In about a year, we will know who is delusional, but I don’t think it’s me. If you’re wrong, I guess you can go storm the Capitol again.
Simply referring to "storm the Capitol" shows who is delusional. The endless hours of video, previously concealed by Pelosi but just released, prove beyond any possible doubt that the few violent clashes on Jan 6 were the tiny exception, and that the overwhelming majority of Jan 6 demonstrators were orderly, peaceful, interacting politely with Capitol police, and far less of a threat than any of the Democrats' pet "peaceful protesters" over the past four years, from BLM and Antifa to today's ignorant and demented pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic mobs.
Yes, it makes you wonder how anyone can even use a phase like "storm the Capitol" since the actual footage has been released. It reflects a steely determination to stick with an ideological viewpoint and to reject all evidence that utterly refutes it.
Good points, Chuck: and let us all now wait for the actual criminal trials, each one of them, where the evidence will be presented calmly in the room, and the juries will decide. If the Trumpistas STILL say he’s being persecuted if any (or all) of the juries vote to convict, then there is nothing more to be said. They would be beyond reason, and Trump is a cult.