Reading this as a religious Jew is interesting. We’re quite big on rules, and yet I have not met anyone who converted due to political reasons. I’d be curious if anyone knows of examples? Fascinating article and does align with anecdotal evidence from my life as far as friend who’ve embraced either stricter forms of Judaism (having be…
Reading this as a religious Jew is interesting. We’re quite big on rules, and yet I have not met anyone who converted due to political reasons. I’d be curious if anyone knows of examples? Fascinating article and does align with anecdotal evidence from my life as far as friend who’ve embraced either stricter forms of Judaism (having been born a Jew) or embraced stricter forms of Christianity in their search for meaning.
My turn to Orthodoxy was concurrent with my becoming more politically conservative. Not surprisingly, both happened after 9/11.
I was thinking of commenting on yesterday’s article about the episode of The Last of Us (but didn’t) that the solution I’ve found to suburban isolation and modern loneliness is living an Orthodox Jewish life. I wish everyone could live in a community like mine; we help each other out; start meal trains for bereaved families and new moms; socialize and worship together; help community members find new jobs or life partners; visit our sick and bury our dead. Yes, it’s chock full of rules and restrictions. It’s also the most meaningful and fulfilling way I’ve ever lived, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
As far as I’m aware, only Satmar women (and perhaps some other Chasidic sects) shave their heads. None of the Chasidic or Modern Orthodox women I know shave their heads; we have all our hair underneath. Not all Modern Orthodox women cover their hair, but many do. Some wear wigs every day; others wear wigs only on formal occasions but for everyday covering, wear hats or bandanas, etc., which is what I do.
I have only seen one private residence that had two kitchens; the rest of us have one kitchen with two sets of utensils/dishes/etc. The lucky among us have two sinks and two dishwashers/ovens (but not stoves). You can make it work without two sinks; you just have to know how. Two refrigerators are nice for space, especially when you’re cooking ahead for lots of holiday guests, but not necessary for kashrut purposes, as it is heat that causes potential problems.
One of his standard gags dealt with playing golf. Someone asks him what his handicap is. He answers, “I’m a one-eyed Jewish negro. What’s yours?”
You’d have to ask Nellie why she converted, but if I had to guess, it would be that Bari was involved in the decision.
I have a lot of friends who admire Judaism a lot. Some talk about converting, but none have as yet. At least they haven’t told me they did. Beyond having Shabbos dinner with my cousins and going to the occasional seder or bar mitzvah, I’m not much of a practicing MOT. But there’s no getting away from the cultural end of it.
It’s not about rules per se. It’s more about politics and the rejection of mainstream culture and declining morality. Furthermore there’s a masculinity thing.
Certainly, Orthodox Judaism has many of the characteristics discussed here, but it is also perceived as a pacifistic lifestyle, clannish and family centric, walled off from mainstream society and living strictly by the Laws handed down from ancient times.
The author seems to be getting at a more defiant approach, conversion for political reasons. Tate advertises an aggressively masculine persona, the ultimate alpha male, the warrior.
I think some in Israel come close to this, the settlers in Judea and Samaria for example. People who live by their faith and carry a gun at all times.
"Certainly, Orthodox Judaism has many of the characteristics discussed here, but it is also perceived as a pacifistic lifestyle, clannish and family centric, walled off from mainstream society and living strictly by the Laws handed down from ancient times."
Given what we (or at least I) see in society today, I have to ask, This Is Supposed To Be A Bad Thing?
Not really, more of an adherence to tradition. That said, the Orthodox Jews in New York have started manning up, applying for gun permits to defend themselves from the New Cossacks roaming the streets looking for Jews and elderly Asians to assault.
I was gonna say, come to Israel, we’ve definitely got some pretty non-passive Orthodox Jews! I take your point especially in regards to the diaspora though.
It’s expensive and the salaries are low, lol! The quality of life is high, but there are significant compromises you have to make to live here if you’re used to w US or EU quality of life.
Reading the same exact article, what I found fascinating is that the author NOT ONCE referred to Judaism. When talking about demanding religions, it seems that Orthodox Judaism is the most demanding by far!
I wonder why he couldn't mention Judaism at least once...
To be fair, we’re historically extremely discouraging of converts, and most conversion programs take a minimum of a year, so it’s not surprising to me that examples of converts joining Judaism for the reasons mentioned in the article may not exist in the public consciousness. An article about secular Jews embracing more rigorous forms of Judaism could be written, as there are many examples, but from my perspective it’s outside the scope of what this article focuses on.
Reading this as a religious Jew is interesting. We’re quite big on rules, and yet I have not met anyone who converted due to political reasons. I’d be curious if anyone knows of examples? Fascinating article and does align with anecdotal evidence from my life as far as friend who’ve embraced either stricter forms of Judaism (having been born a Jew) or embraced stricter forms of Christianity in their search for meaning.
My turn to Orthodoxy was concurrent with my becoming more politically conservative. Not surprisingly, both happened after 9/11.
I was thinking of commenting on yesterday’s article about the episode of The Last of Us (but didn’t) that the solution I’ve found to suburban isolation and modern loneliness is living an Orthodox Jewish life. I wish everyone could live in a community like mine; we help each other out; start meal trains for bereaved families and new moms; socialize and worship together; help community members find new jobs or life partners; visit our sick and bury our dead. Yes, it’s chock full of rules and restrictions. It’s also the most meaningful and fulfilling way I’ve ever lived, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
do you shave your head and wear a wig? do you have two kitchen for meat and milk? different sets of dishes. I am curious
Bestuvall:
As far as I’m aware, only Satmar women (and perhaps some other Chasidic sects) shave their heads. None of the Chasidic or Modern Orthodox women I know shave their heads; we have all our hair underneath. Not all Modern Orthodox women cover their hair, but many do. Some wear wigs every day; others wear wigs only on formal occasions but for everyday covering, wear hats or bandanas, etc., which is what I do.
I have only seen one private residence that had two kitchens; the rest of us have one kitchen with two sets of utensils/dishes/etc. The lucky among us have two sinks and two dishwashers/ovens (but not stoves). You can make it work without two sinks; you just have to know how. Two refrigerators are nice for space, especially when you’re cooking ahead for lots of holiday guests, but not necessary for kashrut purposes, as it is heat that causes potential problems.
Did I answer all your questions? :-)
Anna - thanks for that description. It's not how I live exactly (some parts, yes) but I can appreciate and admire the benefits of it.
Beautiful. The same in my church. People need a social structure, not tiktok.
I envy your faith.
The 3 dots.
I’d be curious if anyone knows of examples?
My guess is that the author made it up from a few isolated examples. Paint with a broad brush much? I found this essay laughable.
Not exactly political, but Sammy Davis, Jr. converted in the 50s:
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Sammy-Davis-Jr-convert-to-Judaism?share=1
One of his standard gags dealt with playing golf. Someone asks him what his handicap is. He answers, “I’m a one-eyed Jewish negro. What’s yours?”
You’d have to ask Nellie why she converted, but if I had to guess, it would be that Bari was involved in the decision.
I have a lot of friends who admire Judaism a lot. Some talk about converting, but none have as yet. At least they haven’t told me they did. Beyond having Shabbos dinner with my cousins and going to the occasional seder or bar mitzvah, I’m not much of a practicing MOT. But there’s no getting away from the cultural end of it.
I’m not sure where things become political.
Mohammad Ali used to be Cassius Clay. and the cynical explanation for that conversion had to do with avoiding the draft for Vietnam.
Edit: just an example of political conversion.
Interesting! I’d forgotten about him, he’s definitely one of our more famous converts.
Marilyn Monroe and Liz Taylor, too.
Oh, yeah.
It’s not about rules per se. It’s more about politics and the rejection of mainstream culture and declining morality. Furthermore there’s a masculinity thing.
Certainly, Orthodox Judaism has many of the characteristics discussed here, but it is also perceived as a pacifistic lifestyle, clannish and family centric, walled off from mainstream society and living strictly by the Laws handed down from ancient times.
The author seems to be getting at a more defiant approach, conversion for political reasons. Tate advertises an aggressively masculine persona, the ultimate alpha male, the warrior.
I think some in Israel come close to this, the settlers in Judea and Samaria for example. People who live by their faith and carry a gun at all times.
"Certainly, Orthodox Judaism has many of the characteristics discussed here, but it is also perceived as a pacifistic lifestyle, clannish and family centric, walled off from mainstream society and living strictly by the Laws handed down from ancient times."
Given what we (or at least I) see in society today, I have to ask, This Is Supposed To Be A Bad Thing?
Not really, more of an adherence to tradition. That said, the Orthodox Jews in New York have started manning up, applying for gun permits to defend themselves from the New Cossacks roaming the streets looking for Jews and elderly Asians to assault.
Check out JPFO.org
Gonna call that A Good Thing. I recall reading in the Roman Empire having Jewish guards was considered a status symbol.
I was gonna say, come to Israel, we’ve definitely got some pretty non-passive Orthodox Jews! I take your point especially in regards to the diaspora though.
I want to be in Israel.
It’s expensive and the salaries are low, lol! The quality of life is high, but there are significant compromises you have to make to live here if you’re used to w US or EU quality of life.
Yeah, but someday, somehow I’ll get there. Some things are more important than money.
Cheers!
Reading the same exact article, what I found fascinating is that the author NOT ONCE referred to Judaism. When talking about demanding religions, it seems that Orthodox Judaism is the most demanding by far!
I wonder why he couldn't mention Judaism at least once...
Maybe he knows little about it?
He also didn’t talk about Christianity, Shinto, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wiccan, etc.
To be fair, we’re historically extremely discouraging of converts, and most conversion programs take a minimum of a year, so it’s not surprising to me that examples of converts joining Judaism for the reasons mentioned in the article may not exist in the public consciousness. An article about secular Jews embracing more rigorous forms of Judaism could be written, as there are many examples, but from my perspective it’s outside the scope of what this article focuses on.