I would like to know how much research Barr has done on the 2020 election. I'm not sure he's done any and simply relies on what his DC circle tells him.
There is ABUNDANT evidence of fraud, and I don't believe for one second that 80+million people voted for Biden. I do believe 80+ million ballots were counted for Biden. I am getting re…
I would like to know how much research Barr has done on the 2020 election. I'm not sure he's done any and simply relies on what his DC circle tells him.
There is ABUNDANT evidence of fraud, and I don't believe for one second that 80+million people voted for Biden. I do believe 80+ million ballots were counted for Biden. I am getting really tired of Bari dismissing claims of election fraud. She doesn't have to agree with them, but she should at least recognize that there is some merit in them.
How about she do an in depth interview with Mollie Hemingway or Dinesh D'Souza? Does she have the courage to truly listen to the other side of this argument?
I don't think there is "ABUNDANT evidence of fraud." Rather I think that the elections in certain states were "ILLEGAL". The difference between "fraud" and "illegality" is vital in this question. The "illegal" voting stemmed from fact that the legislatures in various states (I cite Pennsylvania as one) did not approve of changes to the election law (as provided by the U.S. Constitution). Yet those changes were approved by the States (in the case of Pennsylvania, by the State Supreme Court).
Call it illegal or fraudulent. Either way we have a problem that needs to be solved. Mail in ballots is not a vote of integrity. Australia at the turn of the 20th Century threw their mail in’s out of their voting system for the very reason that we should have thrown it out as well. First of all you have no chain of custody over the votes. Our votes were comprised from that moment on the rest as they say is history. It went belly up from 2020 till God know when it will improve.
The person I know that was telling Democrats to request ballots by mail AND voting in-person for the same election, hinted that there would be no chain identification for the mail-in ballot, so they would essentially get “two votes” per person.
Curious, Neil -- is there a web site, or article, or series of articles, that best summarizes all the known instances of voting fraud and irregularities that took place in 2020? It would be really interesting to see a full rundown of what was alleged to have happened in states such as Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, Arizona, etc., and which have these have been proven, disproven, or neither.
There obviously are a lot of people who think the election result was illegitimate. If anyone has sewed all this together, and made a case that the actual electoral count should have been XXX-to-YYY, I'd love to see it.
While I'm sure there was some fraud, I don't think the election was stolen. I believe that had all of the states used the same laws that existed in 2016, Trump would have won. As I was watching the various states extend the number of days to count, the emphasis on mail in ballots, ballot harvesting etc. I saw the writing on the wall. It's crazy that Trump did as well as he did.
Well, I've done A LOT of reading on this, and I disagree with you. I'm probably 80% certain the election was stolen. But I also know that's not going to change anything. It never will - cheating in elections pays. Republicans better get in the game.
I knew people (my own wife, even) who were volunteering to call potential (Democrat) voters in Georgia and other purple states and get them registered. The DNC is quite the vote machine.
Neil, if it is inconceivable to you that "80+million people voted for Biden", that is not a sign that they didn't. It is a sign that you are living in a bubble. I don't say that to rag on you; we all live in bubbles of some kind. Look at the people still walking around outside with masks on now -- their ideological bubble is causing them to try to create a physical bubble. :-) However, once you're aware that you live in an ideological bubble, it's wise to make a concerted effort to get out of it.
I do not want to debate whether Trump lost the election. It doesn't matter. My point is that your criticism of Barr is that he's living in a DC establishment bubble, but your own statements imply that you are living in a Trump/MAGA bubble.
I agree that I would love to see Bari interview Dinesh D'Souza. But I fear such an interview would fairly quickly degenerate into the weeds of specific precincts, boxes pulled from under tables, footage of strange vans pulling up at loading docks, voting machine conspiracies, drop box stuffing, etc. For people interested in ideas, this would not be a particularly enlightening interview. The Barr interview is.
I believe that 80+ million people voted for Biden, or let's put it this way, 80+ million ballots were tabulated for Biden; how many of those were people who actively voted, versus massive door-to-door harvesting campaigns ("I'm going to register you to vote then just sign this at the bottom") to get just enough of "our guy's votes" to flip the district, is certainly not well defined.
The Democrats used these harvesting approaches to successfully flip some traditionally Republican congressional districts in southern California; 2-3 of them were later flipped back when the Republicans used the same techniques in those districts. Ballot harvesting, by the way, had been illegal in California until the mostly-Democrat legislature legalized it, opening the door to massive fraud (or what used to be considered fraud, but today is considered "winning by any means necessary", no matter how much it demoralizes the opposition and undermines perceived electoral integrity.
You are right that whether Trump won or lost nothing would change. And it is interesting that you don't seem to think the "weeds" are important - those are the very things that make up "the real". You simply cannot understand ideas if you don't understand the details behind them. You don't have to be an expert, but you must understand them. Other wise your ideas are build on sand.
My bubble is "fair play and the rule of law". From what I've read - and it is a substantial amount - the 2020 POTUS election was far from that.
I know I should remove myself from my bubble because that is not the way the US works now. But it's hard because I watched too much "good guy" TV when I was young. I need to learn to play the game even with it's immoralities.
While we may disagree about the election, we agree on the death of "fair play and the rule of law". The only question is when and how the Right is going to embrace the same post-liberal philosophy that the left already has.
Barr said very clearly that the DOJ investigates fraud but [election integrity] is up to the states. "Fraud" is a legal term and has an element of intent. So insistence that it was fraud deflected from the real.problem. election integrity [late rule changes, ballot harvesting, drive by voting, etc.] .
Interesting that Barr admits "There was fraud, but not enough to tip the election..." Well, fraudsters cover up their fraud...and there is no way to know whether or not it "tipped" the election. But election fraud, on any level, that's something that should NEVER happen again if we want this country to survive.
I just saw an article, can't remember what site, where the Post Office just found a box of ballots for the 2020 election sitting on their shelves. There's been so many weird things like that. Plus the shenanigans on election night. I personally don't know who really won but it was not a clean election.
We will continue to find these for years to come. This was the most fraudulent election ever in our history perpetrated by the Leftist Communist Democrats and media along with Democrats controlled social media.
There has always been fraud, but probably never with such high stakes, except for maybe the election of 1960, which some historians believe Richard Nixon technically won.
Barr says Trump alienated key constituencies needed to truly build a big tent Republican government. I question that, because America of 2020 is not the same place as America of 1980. The World War Two generation were capable of compromise and big-tent-ism; their children and grandchildren, not so much. The Internet has only made that worse, as well.
If Trump had garnered just a few hundred thousand more votes... out of 170 million ballots cast... he would have won. He just needed a few thousand votes in 5 states. Of course, that is why everyone on the Right is suspicious; when Arizona and Georgia were lost by only 10K or 12K, it's well within the margin of error/fraud. Why did Michigan turn on Trump and squeak by with Biden? Trump fought really hard to keep heavy industry in Michigan, and the low fuel prices also helped them tremendously. This is why people are so suspicious; it just doesn't add up.
I think the 2020 election was a one-time phenomenon. No one believes the dropboxes were a legitimate voting device, and in fact it's not allowed in other democracies. Nor are mail-in ballots; it's considered insecure... DUH! Changing the rules to accommodate mail-in voters is also a no-no, yet was done in Pennsylvania, approved by partisan elected judges.
This is all going to have to be litigated eventually. Ballot harvesting, dropboxes, mail-in are all a threat to democracy. Were it not for that, Trump would have handily won reelection, and it's entirely possible the Senate would have stayed Republican as well.
I interpreted Barr's quotes a bit differently. I read him to say that if Trump had just a couple ounces of couth in his 260 pound body -- i.e. if he had even trace levels of civility, respect for others, and the ability to STFU just once in a great while -- he'd have won hands-down, by 10 million votes, and still be implementing his policies that you and Barr agree are good ones.
Looking at how Trump has ambushed his own party's Senate candidates and Senate chances, it's hard to disagree with Barr's summary view that Trump is (a) his own worst enemy, and (b) apparently determined to be the GOP's worst enemy.
Nonsense. Trump would have won hands-down, if the Democrat ground operation had not harvested a couple hundred thousand votes in key swing districts, flipping key swing states. Their job was made easier by the virus, allowing them to collect ballots and dump them off at tabulation centers with no chain-of-custody. It allowed them to solicit mailed ballots door to door from people who never otherwise voted. It allowed them to use dropboxes helpfully (and illegally) provided by Facebook's billionaire founder Zuckerberg, which in theory were supposed to have cameras to prevent fraud but many of the cameras were mysteriously not working. The Dems also successfully promoted the false notion that the pandemic was Trump's fault, the deaths were on him, the vaccines didn't work, and state leaders like Cuomo were "more presidential" than Trump in their daily briefings. The major networks stopped carrying Trump's daily briefings that featured Pence's pandemic task force, Fauci, Birx, et al, because Trump's approval ratings were rising too fast. So they would just show a bit of it, then cut away to an "expert" who would contradict or ridicule whatever Trump said, take it out of context, make him look like a fool, whatever they could do to undermine the country's leader in the midst of a grave crisis. Trump was never properly credited with the amazing work of bringing several effective vaccines to the public in record time, probably saving a lot of lives. Meanwhile, the New York "presidential" material guy was never held to account for the deaths of tens of thousands of nursing home residents who were needlessly exposed to virus carriers. Even Trump's initial decision to halt travel from China, back in February 2020, was criticized as "xenophobia" by Biden, Schumer, Pelosi, and others. Pelosi was featured at an Asian fair in San Francisco, insisting people should get out and enjoy life. Kamala Harris and others declared they would "never take the vaccine while Trump was in office", thus discouraging countless people from using the only known preventative; then once they were totally in power, they imposed a near-fascist regime, forcing everyone to take the vaccine and firing anyone, military or medical or anything else, who resisted.
To say that if only Trump has been nicer, he would have won by a landslide, is to ignore the multitude of vicious, dishonest, and likely illegal means the Democrats used to take him down. Yes, they succeeded. But in doing so, they caused great damage to our democracy because tens of millions of Americans lost faith in the electoral system. About 50% of Republicans consider the 2020 election fraudulent to some extent, and even 10-20% of Democrats would agree, according to polls from a year or two back. When 25% to 40% of the country has lost faith in elections, and considers the current government illegitimate, we are in a very dangerous situation that could potentially erupt into civil war. What the Democrats did was unethical and stupid and, in my opinion, treasonous.
Would you say the pro-Trump voters used dropboxes and mailed ballots? or voted mostly in person, like in the rest of the country?
What would the Florida results have looked like had there been no mail-ins and dropboxes?
If you don't know the numbers and hypotheticals, your statement is of little import.
By the way, I'm not opposed to solicited mailed ballots. Even Donald Trump voted by mail. But just spamming out unsolicited ballot cards to everyone including people who no longer live at that address... it opened the door to unknown amounts of fraud, anecdotal but certainly happened.
If this is correct (I must say that since few people agree on facts anymore..) - but according to the above 1.5 million registered Republicans voted by mail in Florida in 2020. With a million more independents joining them..(clue in on the mailed in ballots returned)
Trump won - and I'm betting that close to two million votes came via the US Postal Service..
I knew it was stolen when they stopped counting in five states simultaneously. I must credit the left with the best fraud operation in history to paraphrase Biden
Part of the problem with "fraud" is how can you prove it in the time allowed. Barr is legally correct; not enough evidence of actual fraud. HOWEVER, plenty of evidence of electoral malfeasance such as the PA Sec'y of State unilaterally and illegally changing voting regulations, and similar stunts in other states. Perhaps the most serious – and least discussed – is the resistance to cleaning up the voting rolls in the big cities. I firmly believe that the reason the Dems were so vehemently against GA's ballot bill had nothing to do with "voter suppression" and everything to do with Fulton County finally facing some serious consequences if it doesn't clean up its voter rolls.
This gets back to one of Trump's core problems. His inability to manage and lead his staff, and his inability to attract the talent needed to do the job. When Covid was building in early 2020 it was clear that the Nov election would be affected. Democrats got out front and got voting processes "adjusted" in a way that would benefit them. There is no reason Republicans, under direction from the WH, shouldn't have been able to do the same thing. The WH lacked the super talent needed at that moment. So, they got played. I don't think it is fraud. And even if there was fraud, it is almost impossible to prove in the time between voting and certification of results.
Trump's staff was chaotic, but not because of him. He inherited a White House full of TDS-afflicted Obama holdovers who did everything possible to undermine him, up to and including felonious crimes like leaking state secrets to the press in violation of their oaths of office, as well as outright lying about Trump to create an impression of incompetence that would further weaken his standing and harm his chances of reelection.
Many of these people were eventually rooted out and fired, a few were prosecuted, but I believe they never got all of them. A couple of them hid behind whistleblower protection, Vindeman and that other guy who made spurious claims. The Dems of course seized on these things, exaggerated them, called Trump a criminal, and eventually impeached him twice, unsuccessfully. They cheapened the meaning of impeachment, which should never be used lightly, and turned it into a casual weapon to take down a President with whom they had strong policy differences (and who was nominating too many conservative judges and Justices for their taste).
Trump's biggest mistake, therefore, was trusting people. He brought in a few experienced people, including several generals, who turned out to be completely wrong for the job and had to be fired. I attribute this to Trump's being a political novice. He's used to the private sector where people have a slightly different attitude. You don't come into a company as CEO and fire all the staff; you trust them to continue doing their jobs because they want the company to keep making money. Not so government workers, it would seem.
yes, American elections tend to be messy, particularly if you don't have a comfortable 5-10% margin of victory. When it comes down to a fraction of a percent that decides the outcome, fraud and plain old human error actually are the deciding factors. I believe 2020 was a coin toss. If not for the virus, Trump would probably have had that 5% margin because let's face it, Biden was obviously not up to the job, and the country was doing so well. The virus opened the door to all sorts of shady shenanigans like drop boxes and massive ballot harvesting, incorrectly filled-out mail-in ballots etc.
Barr is a legal beagle and for him it’s all about the probability of conviction based on actual evidence and election fraud is nearly impossible to prove since chain of custody is broken once the ballot is separated from the mail in envelope.
The thumb was on the scale to ensure Trump lost, the is true but does not make the election ilegitimate. ON the other hand if the FBI sat on evidence of influence peddling by the Biden and called it disinformation, that would bring the idea of a fraudulent election to a whole new level.
There are several "streams" of fraud: ballot fraud, influence peddling, and private management of elections are the direct ones. Then you have the indirect ones like the work Elias's group was doing to change election laws, unconstitutional laws in PA, etc...
It wasn't the thumb on the scale, it was the whole damn hand, arm, and torso. I do think, if ever honestly done, a full study on the 2020 election will show it to be illegitimate.
But that is Barr's point - fraud is a legal term and the DoJ could investigate but saw no evidence of substantial.fraud. Election integrity is the province of each state. The states let that crap slide. And it was crap. The election may have been legal, at least at the federal.level, but it was absolutely immoral.
They didn't want to find any fraud. And there is not nearly enough time to uncover, analyze, compile, and file fraud, which by its nature is covert.
Republicans need to stop whining and get as good at, um, "influencing" elections as are the Dems. Voters don't care much about fraud, states don't want to find it, and there is not enough time to make any corrections should fraud be found. Play the game before you, not the game you want to play.
I cannot like that, but I fear you are correct. As for the state's actions I have heard tidbits about misdeeds but I can't keep up with all 50 states. My instinct is that the 2020 election was manipulated.
If Trump had won I don't think we'd have had those horrid vax mandates. That coercive petty punitive useless policy of Biden's has had an incalculable impact on people and families. The institutions and 'experts' that we should be able to trust showed us that they're a bunch of partisan clowns. I was shocked at some of the stupid counter-intuitive and counter-productive decisions coming from the White House and the expert class.
Neil did you see the most recent scam? Census Bureau over counting blue states and undercounting red in 2020?
Those costly errors will distort congressional representation and the Electoral College.
The states whose populations were undercounted were Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Texas.
Congress needs to use its oversight authority to investigate and determine why these errors happened, particularly since they didn’t occur in the 2010 census.
You have to be willfully blind not to see these as systemic issues that adversely effect free and fair elections. The truth always outs. Thanks for doing your homework.
Mark if you mean Trump did everything in his power to bar illegal aliens from being counted by having a question on the census that said "are you a citizen of the USA" then yes Trump did that.
Keep in mind Obama removed that question and Wilbur Ross tried to put it back on the Census.
From the Supreme Court case syllabus:
"The census additionally serves as a means of collecting demographic information used for a variety of purposes.
There have been 23 decennial censuses since 1790. All but one between 1820 and 2000 asked at least some of the population about
their citizenship or place of birth. The question was asked of all
households until 1950, and was asked of a fraction of the population
on an alternative long-form questionnaire between 1960 and 2000.
In 2010, the citizenship question was moved from the census to the
American Community Survey, which is sent each year to a small
sample of households.
In March 2018, Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross announced in
a memo that he had decided to reinstate a citizenship question on the
2020 census questionnaire at the request of the Department of Justice (DOJ), which sought census block level citizenship data to use in
Stan, it's not surprising that the Heritage Foundation reported this story in a manner that fits its agenda. What actually happened with the overcount can more likely be attributed to Trump's efforts to disallow the counting of non-citizens. In its review of the data, the Bureau found undercounts of Black, Latino, and indigenous peoples: “statistically significant undercounts for the Black or African American alone or in combination, American Indian or Alaska Native alone or in combination, Some Other Race alone or in combination, and Hispanic or Latino populations.” There is no evidence of fudging the data for political purposes. In 2010, under President Obama, the Bureau conducted the count without pressure from the White House. End of story.
They happened because the Trump administration did everything in its power to bar illegal aliens from being counted. And the red states joined with him. It turns out that there are a lot of illegal aliens in red states.
For that matter, let’s think bigger and have Bari interview Zuckerbucks, who $funded$ the mail in ballot army in the swing states that tipped the scales.
I would like to know how much research Barr has done on the 2020 election. I'm not sure he's done any and simply relies on what his DC circle tells him.
There is ABUNDANT evidence of fraud, and I don't believe for one second that 80+million people voted for Biden. I do believe 80+ million ballots were counted for Biden. I am getting really tired of Bari dismissing claims of election fraud. She doesn't have to agree with them, but she should at least recognize that there is some merit in them.
How about she do an in depth interview with Mollie Hemingway or Dinesh D'Souza? Does she have the courage to truly listen to the other side of this argument?
I don't think there is "ABUNDANT evidence of fraud." Rather I think that the elections in certain states were "ILLEGAL". The difference between "fraud" and "illegality" is vital in this question. The "illegal" voting stemmed from fact that the legislatures in various states (I cite Pennsylvania as one) did not approve of changes to the election law (as provided by the U.S. Constitution). Yet those changes were approved by the States (in the case of Pennsylvania, by the State Supreme Court).
Call it illegal or fraudulent. Either way we have a problem that needs to be solved. Mail in ballots is not a vote of integrity. Australia at the turn of the 20th Century threw their mail in’s out of their voting system for the very reason that we should have thrown it out as well. First of all you have no chain of custody over the votes. Our votes were comprised from that moment on the rest as they say is history. It went belly up from 2020 till God know when it will improve.
The person I know that was telling Democrats to request ballots by mail AND voting in-person for the same election, hinted that there would be no chain identification for the mail-in ballot, so they would essentially get “two votes” per person.
There is both illegality and fraud.
Exactly.
I don't think the election was stolen, but had it been conducted in each state the way 2016 was, Trump wins the electoral and popular vote.
Curious, Neil -- is there a web site, or article, or series of articles, that best summarizes all the known instances of voting fraud and irregularities that took place in 2020? It would be really interesting to see a full rundown of what was alleged to have happened in states such as Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, Arizona, etc., and which have these have been proven, disproven, or neither.
There obviously are a lot of people who think the election result was illegitimate. If anyone has sewed all this together, and made a case that the actual electoral count should have been XXX-to-YYY, I'd love to see it.
Rigged, a book by Mollie Hemingway is a great source. But there are many others...
Great question. I'd love to see it as well.
While I'm sure there was some fraud, I don't think the election was stolen. I believe that had all of the states used the same laws that existed in 2016, Trump would have won. As I was watching the various states extend the number of days to count, the emphasis on mail in ballots, ballot harvesting etc. I saw the writing on the wall. It's crazy that Trump did as well as he did.
Well, I've done A LOT of reading on this, and I disagree with you. I'm probably 80% certain the election was stolen. But I also know that's not going to change anything. It never will - cheating in elections pays. Republicans better get in the game.
I can't say you're wrong, but I haven't seen the smoking gun, and I haven't done a lot of reading, nor have I seen 2000 mules
I knew people (my own wife, even) who were volunteering to call potential (Democrat) voters in Georgia and other purple states and get them registered. The DNC is quite the vote machine.
I agree, Democrats wanted it more than Republicans and the result is evidence of this.
That position is nothing more than "to the victor go the spoils" and at that point the rule of law is dead.
Neil, if it is inconceivable to you that "80+million people voted for Biden", that is not a sign that they didn't. It is a sign that you are living in a bubble. I don't say that to rag on you; we all live in bubbles of some kind. Look at the people still walking around outside with masks on now -- their ideological bubble is causing them to try to create a physical bubble. :-) However, once you're aware that you live in an ideological bubble, it's wise to make a concerted effort to get out of it.
I do not want to debate whether Trump lost the election. It doesn't matter. My point is that your criticism of Barr is that he's living in a DC establishment bubble, but your own statements imply that you are living in a Trump/MAGA bubble.
I agree that I would love to see Bari interview Dinesh D'Souza. But I fear such an interview would fairly quickly degenerate into the weeds of specific precincts, boxes pulled from under tables, footage of strange vans pulling up at loading docks, voting machine conspiracies, drop box stuffing, etc. For people interested in ideas, this would not be a particularly enlightening interview. The Barr interview is.
I believe that 80+ million people voted for Biden, or let's put it this way, 80+ million ballots were tabulated for Biden; how many of those were people who actively voted, versus massive door-to-door harvesting campaigns ("I'm going to register you to vote then just sign this at the bottom") to get just enough of "our guy's votes" to flip the district, is certainly not well defined.
The Democrats used these harvesting approaches to successfully flip some traditionally Republican congressional districts in southern California; 2-3 of them were later flipped back when the Republicans used the same techniques in those districts. Ballot harvesting, by the way, had been illegal in California until the mostly-Democrat legislature legalized it, opening the door to massive fraud (or what used to be considered fraud, but today is considered "winning by any means necessary", no matter how much it demoralizes the opposition and undermines perceived electoral integrity.
The Barr interview was filled with ideas and very interesting. I agree.
The Barr interview was enlightening, you're right. And on the bubbles? Right again..
You are right that whether Trump won or lost nothing would change. And it is interesting that you don't seem to think the "weeds" are important - those are the very things that make up "the real". You simply cannot understand ideas if you don't understand the details behind them. You don't have to be an expert, but you must understand them. Other wise your ideas are build on sand.
My bubble is "fair play and the rule of law". From what I've read - and it is a substantial amount - the 2020 POTUS election was far from that.
I know I should remove myself from my bubble because that is not the way the US works now. But it's hard because I watched too much "good guy" TV when I was young. I need to learn to play the game even with it's immoralities.
While we may disagree about the election, we agree on the death of "fair play and the rule of law". The only question is when and how the Right is going to embrace the same post-liberal philosophy that the left already has.
Yes, if the Right does not adopt the same post liberal philosophy of how to play the game, it’s over very fast.
Biden got 16 million more votes than Our Lord and Savior Barack Obama just 8 years later?!?
Oh yes, I believe that.
🤪😂😂😂
Barr said very clearly that the DOJ investigates fraud but [election integrity] is up to the states. "Fraud" is a legal term and has an element of intent. So insistence that it was fraud deflected from the real.problem. election integrity [late rule changes, ballot harvesting, drive by voting, etc.] .
Good observation, yes.
There's also abundant evidence that Trump personally flew both the hijacked planes into the World Trade Center towers, so the man is a terrorist.
When will Bari recognize the abundant merit to claims of Trump being singlehandedly responsible for 9/11?
Obama was co-pilot; everyone knows that.
LOL
A million ❤️❤️ for this post. But Bari won’t she part of TDS crowd.
Interesting that Barr admits "There was fraud, but not enough to tip the election..." Well, fraudsters cover up their fraud...and there is no way to know whether or not it "tipped" the election. But election fraud, on any level, that's something that should NEVER happen again if we want this country to survive.
I just saw an article, can't remember what site, where the Post Office just found a box of ballots for the 2020 election sitting on their shelves. There's been so many weird things like that. Plus the shenanigans on election night. I personally don't know who really won but it was not a clean election.
We will continue to find these for years to come. This was the most fraudulent election ever in our history perpetrated by the Leftist Communist Democrats and media along with Democrats controlled social media.
There has always been fraud, but probably never with such high stakes, except for maybe the election of 1960, which some historians believe Richard Nixon technically won.
Barr says Trump alienated key constituencies needed to truly build a big tent Republican government. I question that, because America of 2020 is not the same place as America of 1980. The World War Two generation were capable of compromise and big-tent-ism; their children and grandchildren, not so much. The Internet has only made that worse, as well.
If Trump had garnered just a few hundred thousand more votes... out of 170 million ballots cast... he would have won. He just needed a few thousand votes in 5 states. Of course, that is why everyone on the Right is suspicious; when Arizona and Georgia were lost by only 10K or 12K, it's well within the margin of error/fraud. Why did Michigan turn on Trump and squeak by with Biden? Trump fought really hard to keep heavy industry in Michigan, and the low fuel prices also helped them tremendously. This is why people are so suspicious; it just doesn't add up.
I think the 2020 election was a one-time phenomenon. No one believes the dropboxes were a legitimate voting device, and in fact it's not allowed in other democracies. Nor are mail-in ballots; it's considered insecure... DUH! Changing the rules to accommodate mail-in voters is also a no-no, yet was done in Pennsylvania, approved by partisan elected judges.
This is all going to have to be litigated eventually. Ballot harvesting, dropboxes, mail-in are all a threat to democracy. Were it not for that, Trump would have handily won reelection, and it's entirely possible the Senate would have stayed Republican as well.
I interpreted Barr's quotes a bit differently. I read him to say that if Trump had just a couple ounces of couth in his 260 pound body -- i.e. if he had even trace levels of civility, respect for others, and the ability to STFU just once in a great while -- he'd have won hands-down, by 10 million votes, and still be implementing his policies that you and Barr agree are good ones.
Looking at how Trump has ambushed his own party's Senate candidates and Senate chances, it's hard to disagree with Barr's summary view that Trump is (a) his own worst enemy, and (b) apparently determined to be the GOP's worst enemy.
This is correct. And Barr is correct.
Nonsense. Trump would have won hands-down, if the Democrat ground operation had not harvested a couple hundred thousand votes in key swing districts, flipping key swing states. Their job was made easier by the virus, allowing them to collect ballots and dump them off at tabulation centers with no chain-of-custody. It allowed them to solicit mailed ballots door to door from people who never otherwise voted. It allowed them to use dropboxes helpfully (and illegally) provided by Facebook's billionaire founder Zuckerberg, which in theory were supposed to have cameras to prevent fraud but many of the cameras were mysteriously not working. The Dems also successfully promoted the false notion that the pandemic was Trump's fault, the deaths were on him, the vaccines didn't work, and state leaders like Cuomo were "more presidential" than Trump in their daily briefings. The major networks stopped carrying Trump's daily briefings that featured Pence's pandemic task force, Fauci, Birx, et al, because Trump's approval ratings were rising too fast. So they would just show a bit of it, then cut away to an "expert" who would contradict or ridicule whatever Trump said, take it out of context, make him look like a fool, whatever they could do to undermine the country's leader in the midst of a grave crisis. Trump was never properly credited with the amazing work of bringing several effective vaccines to the public in record time, probably saving a lot of lives. Meanwhile, the New York "presidential" material guy was never held to account for the deaths of tens of thousands of nursing home residents who were needlessly exposed to virus carriers. Even Trump's initial decision to halt travel from China, back in February 2020, was criticized as "xenophobia" by Biden, Schumer, Pelosi, and others. Pelosi was featured at an Asian fair in San Francisco, insisting people should get out and enjoy life. Kamala Harris and others declared they would "never take the vaccine while Trump was in office", thus discouraging countless people from using the only known preventative; then once they were totally in power, they imposed a near-fascist regime, forcing everyone to take the vaccine and firing anyone, military or medical or anything else, who resisted.
To say that if only Trump has been nicer, he would have won by a landslide, is to ignore the multitude of vicious, dishonest, and likely illegal means the Democrats used to take him down. Yes, they succeeded. But in doing so, they caused great damage to our democracy because tens of millions of Americans lost faith in the electoral system. About 50% of Republicans consider the 2020 election fraudulent to some extent, and even 10-20% of Democrats would agree, according to polls from a year or two back. When 25% to 40% of the country has lost faith in elections, and considers the current government illegitimate, we are in a very dangerous situation that could potentially erupt into civil war. What the Democrats did was unethical and stupid and, in my opinion, treasonous.
Mail in ballots are very popular in Florida and figured largely ( as well as drop boxes..)
in the election there in 2020. Of which Trump won handily.
Would you say the pro-Trump voters used dropboxes and mailed ballots? or voted mostly in person, like in the rest of the country?
What would the Florida results have looked like had there been no mail-ins and dropboxes?
If you don't know the numbers and hypotheticals, your statement is of little import.
By the way, I'm not opposed to solicited mailed ballots. Even Donald Trump voted by mail. But just spamming out unsolicited ballot cards to everyone including people who no longer live at that address... it opened the door to unknown amounts of fraud, anecdotal but certainly happened.
https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/FL.html
If this is correct (I must say that since few people agree on facts anymore..) - but according to the above 1.5 million registered Republicans voted by mail in Florida in 2020. With a million more independents joining them..(clue in on the mailed in ballots returned)
Trump won - and I'm betting that close to two million votes came via the US Postal Service..
I knew it was stolen when they stopped counting in five states simultaneously. I must credit the left with the best fraud operation in history to paraphrase Biden
Common sense at last!!❤️
Part of the problem with "fraud" is how can you prove it in the time allowed. Barr is legally correct; not enough evidence of actual fraud. HOWEVER, plenty of evidence of electoral malfeasance such as the PA Sec'y of State unilaterally and illegally changing voting regulations, and similar stunts in other states. Perhaps the most serious – and least discussed – is the resistance to cleaning up the voting rolls in the big cities. I firmly believe that the reason the Dems were so vehemently against GA's ballot bill had nothing to do with "voter suppression" and everything to do with Fulton County finally facing some serious consequences if it doesn't clean up its voter rolls.
This gets back to one of Trump's core problems. His inability to manage and lead his staff, and his inability to attract the talent needed to do the job. When Covid was building in early 2020 it was clear that the Nov election would be affected. Democrats got out front and got voting processes "adjusted" in a way that would benefit them. There is no reason Republicans, under direction from the WH, shouldn't have been able to do the same thing. The WH lacked the super talent needed at that moment. So, they got played. I don't think it is fraud. And even if there was fraud, it is almost impossible to prove in the time between voting and certification of results.
Trump's staff was chaotic, but not because of him. He inherited a White House full of TDS-afflicted Obama holdovers who did everything possible to undermine him, up to and including felonious crimes like leaking state secrets to the press in violation of their oaths of office, as well as outright lying about Trump to create an impression of incompetence that would further weaken his standing and harm his chances of reelection.
Many of these people were eventually rooted out and fired, a few were prosecuted, but I believe they never got all of them. A couple of them hid behind whistleblower protection, Vindeman and that other guy who made spurious claims. The Dems of course seized on these things, exaggerated them, called Trump a criminal, and eventually impeached him twice, unsuccessfully. They cheapened the meaning of impeachment, which should never be used lightly, and turned it into a casual weapon to take down a President with whom they had strong policy differences (and who was nominating too many conservative judges and Justices for their taste).
Trump's biggest mistake, therefore, was trusting people. He brought in a few experienced people, including several generals, who turned out to be completely wrong for the job and had to be fired. I attribute this to Trump's being a political novice. He's used to the private sector where people have a slightly different attitude. You don't come into a company as CEO and fire all the staff; you trust them to continue doing their jobs because they want the company to keep making money. Not so government workers, it would seem.
yes, American elections tend to be messy, particularly if you don't have a comfortable 5-10% margin of victory. When it comes down to a fraction of a percent that decides the outcome, fraud and plain old human error actually are the deciding factors. I believe 2020 was a coin toss. If not for the virus, Trump would probably have had that 5% margin because let's face it, Biden was obviously not up to the job, and the country was doing so well. The virus opened the door to all sorts of shady shenanigans like drop boxes and massive ballot harvesting, incorrectly filled-out mail-in ballots etc.
And mark my words, the evil leftist have plans already in place to pull the same election schemes since it worked so well in 2020!
Barr is a legal beagle and for him it’s all about the probability of conviction based on actual evidence and election fraud is nearly impossible to prove since chain of custody is broken once the ballot is separated from the mail in envelope.
yet by definition, mail-in is totally insecure. Even in-person voting is not secure, obviously, but it's the best of a set of bad choices.
Mail-in is an election integrity issue. Elections are controlled by the states.
The thumb was on the scale to ensure Trump lost, the is true but does not make the election ilegitimate. ON the other hand if the FBI sat on evidence of influence peddling by the Biden and called it disinformation, that would bring the idea of a fraudulent election to a whole new level.
There are several "streams" of fraud: ballot fraud, influence peddling, and private management of elections are the direct ones. Then you have the indirect ones like the work Elias's group was doing to change election laws, unconstitutional laws in PA, etc...
It wasn't the thumb on the scale, it was the whole damn hand, arm, and torso. I do think, if ever honestly done, a full study on the 2020 election will show it to be illegitimate.
But that is Barr's point - fraud is a legal term and the DoJ could investigate but saw no evidence of substantial.fraud. Election integrity is the province of each state. The states let that crap slide. And it was crap. The election may have been legal, at least at the federal.level, but it was absolutely immoral.
They didn't want to find any fraud. And there is not nearly enough time to uncover, analyze, compile, and file fraud, which by its nature is covert.
Republicans need to stop whining and get as good at, um, "influencing" elections as are the Dems. Voters don't care much about fraud, states don't want to find it, and there is not enough time to make any corrections should fraud be found. Play the game before you, not the game you want to play.
I cannot like that, but I fear you are correct. As for the state's actions I have heard tidbits about misdeeds but I can't keep up with all 50 states. My instinct is that the 2020 election was manipulated.
If Trump had won I don't think we'd have had those horrid vax mandates. That coercive petty punitive useless policy of Biden's has had an incalculable impact on people and families. The institutions and 'experts' that we should be able to trust showed us that they're a bunch of partisan clowns. I was shocked at some of the stupid counter-intuitive and counter-productive decisions coming from the White House and the expert class.
Neil did you see the most recent scam? Census Bureau over counting blue states and undercounting red in 2020?
Those costly errors will distort congressional representation and the Electoral College.
The states whose populations were undercounted were Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Texas.
Congress needs to use its oversight authority to investigate and determine why these errors happened, particularly since they didn’t occur in the 2010 census.
You have to be willfully blind not to see these as systemic issues that adversely effect free and fair elections. The truth always outs. Thanks for doing your homework.
https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/census-bureau-admits-overcounting-7-blue-states-just-1-red-state
Here's the Supreme Court case which decided in Trump's favor re: the Census Count. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
Mark if you mean Trump did everything in his power to bar illegal aliens from being counted by having a question on the census that said "are you a citizen of the USA" then yes Trump did that.
Keep in mind Obama removed that question and Wilbur Ross tried to put it back on the Census.
From the Supreme Court case syllabus:
"The census additionally serves as a means of collecting demographic information used for a variety of purposes.
There have been 23 decennial censuses since 1790. All but one between 1820 and 2000 asked at least some of the population about
their citizenship or place of birth. The question was asked of all
households until 1950, and was asked of a fraction of the population
on an alternative long-form questionnaire between 1960 and 2000.
In 2010, the citizenship question was moved from the census to the
American Community Survey, which is sent each year to a small
sample of households.
In March 2018, Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross announced in
a memo that he had decided to reinstate a citizenship question on the
2020 census questionnaire at the request of the Department of Justice (DOJ), which sought census block level citizenship data to use in
enforcing the Voting Rights Act (VRA)."
Stan, it's not surprising that the Heritage Foundation reported this story in a manner that fits its agenda. What actually happened with the overcount can more likely be attributed to Trump's efforts to disallow the counting of non-citizens. In its review of the data, the Bureau found undercounts of Black, Latino, and indigenous peoples: “statistically significant undercounts for the Black or African American alone or in combination, American Indian or Alaska Native alone or in combination, Some Other Race alone or in combination, and Hispanic or Latino populations.” There is no evidence of fudging the data for political purposes. In 2010, under President Obama, the Bureau conducted the count without pressure from the White House. End of story.
They happened because the Trump administration did everything in its power to bar illegal aliens from being counted. And the red states joined with him. It turns out that there are a lot of illegal aliens in red states.
No I hadn't seen that. This is my shocked face...
For that matter, let’s think bigger and have Bari interview Zuckerbucks, who $funded$ the mail in ballot army in the swing states that tipped the scales.
That would be big, but Zuck would never give a straight answer and Bari would only lob softballs at him.
I agree. The unwritten rule is very powerful.
Jet beams can't melt steel fuel. 7/11 was an inside job!