I an trying to understand the position of the Fauci supporters. Do they read these emails and think they are deep fakes to discredit Fauci? Or do they acknowledge that they are authentic but think this duplicitous behavior is good and valid? It is hard to find anyone on the Pro Fauci side writing and or discussing the emails at all? Thes…
I an trying to understand the position of the Fauci supporters. Do they read these emails and think they are deep fakes to discredit Fauci? Or do they acknowledge that they are authentic but think this duplicitous behavior is good and valid? It is hard to find anyone on the Pro Fauci side writing and or discussing the emails at all? These are not stupid people, what is this really about? Can TFP find a pro Fauci person to explain their thoughts on the emails and testimonies to Congress and the nation on countless interviews?
When presented with information that goes against their belief, they just immediately disregard it. To allow themselves to see it would be to acknowledge 1. that they made a mistake (and people generally find that hard), and 2. to open their eyes to the fact that they can't trust the people they thought they could trust (also painful). My mom is firmly in this camp and it's impressive the mental gymnastics that she does to keep the two points above from entering into her mind. If I sent her this article, she would refuse to read it. If it came on the news, she would turn the news off. Her decision has been made and there will never be any curiosity on her part to know truth. Sigh.
Yes they are stupid people. You had to be stupid to not have questions about this entire thing. They are lazy. They prefer to be spoon fed erroneous information.
When presented with this, the usual response is something like "conspiracy theory". They'll often add in "bigot", "Nazi", "alt-right" (even - especially - if it's RFK Jr that says it). They're programmed to react negatively to any mention of it (just like most conservatives are programmed to reject and ignore studies about climate change).
It is nearly impossible for some people to admit they are wrong about something, they have a religious fervor and to even question it rattles them to their core. So they will accept any explanation, no matter how implausible.
These people don’t have a clue what’s going on .. they are listening to MSNBC, NYT, CNN, etc. who dont cover it . if u told them about this story they wouldn’t believe u.
As a lifelong Democrat, I am really shocked and appalled by their zombie ignorance over the past few years. Two days ago at lunch, I was hearing from two that they are not fans of free speech. These people are morons.
Most people - especially young people - aren't fans of free speech. When polled, over 70% of college students thought that it was OK to report a professor if the professor said something offensive in class. What struck me was that it was something like 53% of self-identified conservative students agreed with reporting professors, too, although not on the same statements. The statement in the study considered most offensive was "there are only two genders". I can find the link to the study if you're curious.
"If a professor says something that students find offensive, should that professor (or class instructor) be reported to the university?" - 74% say yes.
Looking through the paper, there are some other concerning things. You can scroll through the whole thing; it paints a rather bleak picture. I misremembered the most controversial statements; but to think that 40% of students would report a professor for saying something that starts with "according to the data" is just... aaaah! These are the future elites; many of them will become lawyers or politicians.
This is really pretty horrifying, and I agree that the future implications are very worrisome. What are they teaching these kids? Our society with freedom of speech as a core value has been one of the most successful in history. These second rate professors are giving the impression it should be tweaked to order by whoever.
It's the students saying that, not the professors. It's been a radical shift -- I graduated in 2010 (and I was quite left-leaning at the time). It was just an unthinkable thing to report a professor to the university. It just wasn't a thing at the time.
I'm guessing the main reason students do it nowadays is because it works. For example...
Yes, he was deceptive with the public about the origin. So what? What difference would it have made at the time to be honest about it? How would it have helped?
Oh yeah, none. It was wrong and sleazy of him, but it's a sideshow.
Untrue. If scientists had been willing/allowed to actually consider lab leak origin, they likely would have been able to make better predictions about how rapidly this virus would mutate. Natural viruses and man-made viruses are not equivalent. Also, lying to the public erodes trust that is incredibly difficult to regain. Lastly, if Fauci were to be prosecuted and jailed for his perjury, it might make future assholes like this think twice before they committed similar atrocities.
No link, just my genetics degree. Something that evolved in a lab and something that evolved in nature have had completely different selection pressures and cannot be expected to be equivalent. The mindset at the start of the pandemic should have been to learn as much as possible about the virus to make the best decisions and predictions we could. Instead many lines of scientific inquiry were silenced in favor of the official narrative.
You sound like Hillary Clinton testifying before Congress about the death of a US Ambassador and four brave Americans on his staff. She said the same thing, "[W]hat does it matter now?" She was never held accountable either. As a result the bad actors, both here and abroad, were emboldened. That slack attitude needs to come to a grinding halt.
“So what?” Hazel, once trust is lost, it takes an enormous amount of time and effort to restore it. The average IQ is defined as 100, which isn’t very smart. Most people need to be led, which is fine. But they need to be led by people who give them good instructions. It’s not OK to pretend to know something you don’t know, and it’s not OK to tell people to do things that are harmful to them in particular and to society in general.
Being deceptive about anything creates the illusion—real or otherwise—that you are deceptive about everything. It was foolishly arrogant of Fauci and Collins to assume that their lies would never see the light of day. Had they actually believed what they were saying, it would have been inaccurate. They plainly did not: they were lying. No one with an IQ above room temperature will knowingly follow a deceptive leader.
Clearly you forget when St. Tony brayed on in January 2020 about "da Choy-neeze ah beun' fully transparent...." He carried their water then. And all thru the pandemic. Is it so hard to comprehend that covering up a crime is equally criminal? And when that crime is the 21st Century equivalent of the holocaust........You ascribe it to being "deceptive?" Good grief. You're just as bad.
He didn’t just foster and encourage a false story. He wasn’t just ‘deceptive’. His ‘sideshow’ sought to suppress the speech and ruin the careers and professional lives of those who dared to say otherwise, as well as those who advocated for continued normalcy. He devastated the lives of multitudes of others with no more thought than stepping on a cockroach.
I am interested in the pro Fauci “ scientists”/ academics, stating on record that the emails are true and real and we think lying and deceiving is / was justified for “ the greater good”. It’s absurd on its face yet I don’t see or read any of them even acknowledging the emails.
I believe the Atlantic article some months back is indicative of their response. They realize they've been caught with their collective pants down and just want to implore us all to move on and let bygones be bygones!
Sleazy doesn’t begin to describe it. We have a country of people who no longer trust its medical leaders, doctors, pharma companies. It’s one thing not to trust politicians. It’s another when you can’t believe your own doctor’s advice about a vaccination.
People who questioned were silenced by powerful media platforms. Anyone who questioned were condescended to as being anti- science.
This does not even get into vaccines, but when public trust is eroded we are in trouble going forward when a future health crisis arises, personal or public. The fact that he is currently employed by Georgetown makes me question pretty much anyone who aligns with “the science” side.
Your response is exactly why no one is ever held accountable. That and its probably your political beliefs that anyone against Fauci and Slow Joe must be some weird super, duper MAGA people. That versus ordinary citizens sick of the corruption and government dis-honesty.
Fauci lied about it to cover his ass because a long with it being "wrong and sleazy" it was also illegal. How about you back up and hold him accountable for letting those contract into gain of function research with the ChiComs to begin with?
The truth is always important. If he lied about this, he likely lied about other things. And if he’d been successful, there’d have been no attempts to try to prevent this in the future.
But the reality is, health authorities lie to us on a regular basis, usually for our own good, though they do get arrogant about it which is an ongoing issue.
Would it have been better for them to have been truthful with us at the beginning of the pandemic, when they said at first that masks weren't necessary?
That would have looked something like the following:
"It's definitely airborne, so we're going to need to mask up around other people. But there aren't nearly enough masks for everyone yet, and the hospitals need most of the ones we have right now, so please don't go out and get a whole bunch until we say it's OK."
Let's be real, it would have been like the toilet paper hoarding, like Wal-Mart opening on Black Friday, only 100X worse. People would be attacking each other over boxes of masks, there'd be warehouse heists, black market prices, the rich would get them and the poor would have none.
I completely disagree, even if it caused shortages and hoarding, they should have told the truth. The short term pain would have paled in comparison to the erosion of trust. That half of the country no longer believes anything from these institutions is far more damaging long term.
I an trying to understand the position of the Fauci supporters. Do they read these emails and think they are deep fakes to discredit Fauci? Or do they acknowledge that they are authentic but think this duplicitous behavior is good and valid? It is hard to find anyone on the Pro Fauci side writing and or discussing the emails at all? These are not stupid people, what is this really about? Can TFP find a pro Fauci person to explain their thoughts on the emails and testimonies to Congress and the nation on countless interviews?
When presented with information that goes against their belief, they just immediately disregard it. To allow themselves to see it would be to acknowledge 1. that they made a mistake (and people generally find that hard), and 2. to open their eyes to the fact that they can't trust the people they thought they could trust (also painful). My mom is firmly in this camp and it's impressive the mental gymnastics that she does to keep the two points above from entering into her mind. If I sent her this article, she would refuse to read it. If it came on the news, she would turn the news off. Her decision has been made and there will never be any curiosity on her part to know truth. Sigh.
It's classic doublethink.
Yes they are stupid people. You had to be stupid to not have questions about this entire thing. They are lazy. They prefer to be spoon fed erroneous information.
Is it hopeless?
No. It is seeing the light of day. That provides hope.
When presented with this, the usual response is something like "conspiracy theory". They'll often add in "bigot", "Nazi", "alt-right" (even - especially - if it's RFK Jr that says it). They're programmed to react negatively to any mention of it (just like most conservatives are programmed to reject and ignore studies about climate change).
My experience is that 1/2 of them are embarrassed and the other 1/2 have dig in their heals and refuse to engage.
You are right. These people are not stupid. They lack integrity and only serve themselves.
It is nearly impossible for some people to admit they are wrong about something, they have a religious fervor and to even question it rattles them to their core. So they will accept any explanation, no matter how implausible.
Exactly the words I was going to write.
(Therefore brilliant, as always. ;-) )
These people don’t have a clue what’s going on .. they are listening to MSNBC, NYT, CNN, etc. who dont cover it . if u told them about this story they wouldn’t believe u.
As a lifelong Democrat, I am really shocked and appalled by their zombie ignorance over the past few years. Two days ago at lunch, I was hearing from two that they are not fans of free speech. These people are morons.
And very dangerous morons. It’s like hiring a serial killer to be a surgeon.
Most people - especially young people - aren't fans of free speech. When polled, over 70% of college students thought that it was OK to report a professor if the professor said something offensive in class. What struck me was that it was something like 53% of self-identified conservative students agreed with reporting professors, too, although not on the same statements. The statement in the study considered most offensive was "there are only two genders". I can find the link to the study if you're curious.
Wow. That is disturbing. I am curious to read that study if you can find it without too much trouble.
https://www.ndsu.edu/fileadmin/challeyinstitute/Research_Briefs/American_College_Student_Freedom_Progress_and_Flourishing_Survey_2023.pdf
"If a professor says something that students find offensive, should that professor (or class instructor) be reported to the university?" - 74% say yes.
Looking through the paper, there are some other concerning things. You can scroll through the whole thing; it paints a rather bleak picture. I misremembered the most controversial statements; but to think that 40% of students would report a professor for saying something that starts with "according to the data" is just... aaaah! These are the future elites; many of them will become lawyers or politicians.
This is really pretty horrifying, and I agree that the future implications are very worrisome. What are they teaching these kids? Our society with freedom of speech as a core value has been one of the most successful in history. These second rate professors are giving the impression it should be tweaked to order by whoever.
It's the students saying that, not the professors. It's been a radical shift -- I graduated in 2010 (and I was quite left-leaning at the time). It was just an unthinkable thing to report a professor to the university. It just wasn't a thing at the time.
I'm guessing the main reason students do it nowadays is because it works. For example...
https://www.thefire.org/cases/st-philips-college-professor-terminated-statements-concerning-biological-sex
https://www.thefire.org/cases/hamline-university-art-history-instructor-dismissed-showing-class-medieval-islamic-artwork
(tons of other similar ones if you go through FIRE's website)
Very Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge like. College administrators need to, as Dr. Phil used to say (!), “grow a spine.”
Yes, he was deceptive with the public about the origin. So what? What difference would it have made at the time to be honest about it? How would it have helped?
Oh yeah, none. It was wrong and sleazy of him, but it's a sideshow.
Untrue. If scientists had been willing/allowed to actually consider lab leak origin, they likely would have been able to make better predictions about how rapidly this virus would mutate. Natural viruses and man-made viruses are not equivalent. Also, lying to the public erodes trust that is incredibly difficult to regain. Lastly, if Fauci were to be prosecuted and jailed for his perjury, it might make future assholes like this think twice before they committed similar atrocities.
Possibly, but I'm not seeing why man-made would necessarily mutate faster or slower than a purely evolved one. Got a link?
No link, just my genetics degree. Something that evolved in a lab and something that evolved in nature have had completely different selection pressures and cannot be expected to be equivalent. The mindset at the start of the pandemic should have been to learn as much as possible about the virus to make the best decisions and predictions we could. Instead many lines of scientific inquiry were silenced in favor of the official narrative.
You sound like Hillary Clinton testifying before Congress about the death of a US Ambassador and four brave Americans on his staff. She said the same thing, "[W]hat does it matter now?" She was never held accountable either. As a result the bad actors, both here and abroad, were emboldened. That slack attitude needs to come to a grinding halt.
“So what?” Hazel, once trust is lost, it takes an enormous amount of time and effort to restore it. The average IQ is defined as 100, which isn’t very smart. Most people need to be led, which is fine. But they need to be led by people who give them good instructions. It’s not OK to pretend to know something you don’t know, and it’s not OK to tell people to do things that are harmful to them in particular and to society in general.
Being deceptive about anything creates the illusion—real or otherwise—that you are deceptive about everything. It was foolishly arrogant of Fauci and Collins to assume that their lies would never see the light of day. Had they actually believed what they were saying, it would have been inaccurate. They plainly did not: they were lying. No one with an IQ above room temperature will knowingly follow a deceptive leader.
Were it not for a very thinly held Republican House their lies would not have ever seen the light of day.
It was a close run thing. Nearly miraculous, in fact.
I am a believer, so you may be on to something.
I, too, have seen His hand....
I think you've found your answer, Disa. They are simply denying that knowing made any difference.
As Hillary once said, "What difference at this point does it make?"
How about integrity ?
For starters maybe they would stop doing the research that created the virus!
Clearly you forget when St. Tony brayed on in January 2020 about "da Choy-neeze ah beun' fully transparent...." He carried their water then. And all thru the pandemic. Is it so hard to comprehend that covering up a crime is equally criminal? And when that crime is the 21st Century equivalent of the holocaust........You ascribe it to being "deceptive?" Good grief. You're just as bad.
He didn’t just foster and encourage a false story. He wasn’t just ‘deceptive’. His ‘sideshow’ sought to suppress the speech and ruin the careers and professional lives of those who dared to say otherwise, as well as those who advocated for continued normalcy. He devastated the lives of multitudes of others with no more thought than stepping on a cockroach.
100%
I am interested in the pro Fauci “ scientists”/ academics, stating on record that the emails are true and real and we think lying and deceiving is / was justified for “ the greater good”. It’s absurd on its face yet I don’t see or read any of them even acknowledging the emails.
It’s not a side show.
I believe the Atlantic article some months back is indicative of their response. They realize they've been caught with their collective pants down and just want to implore us all to move on and let bygones be bygones!
Sleazy doesn’t begin to describe it. We have a country of people who no longer trust its medical leaders, doctors, pharma companies. It’s one thing not to trust politicians. It’s another when you can’t believe your own doctor’s advice about a vaccination.
Or trust educators.
He lied about the benefits of masks and vaccines as well.
People who questioned were silenced by powerful media platforms. Anyone who questioned were condescended to as being anti- science.
This does not even get into vaccines, but when public trust is eroded we are in trouble going forward when a future health crisis arises, personal or public. The fact that he is currently employed by Georgetown makes me question pretty much anyone who aligns with “the science” side.
Your response is exactly why no one is ever held accountable. That and its probably your political beliefs that anyone against Fauci and Slow Joe must be some weird super, duper MAGA people. That versus ordinary citizens sick of the corruption and government dis-honesty.
Fauci lied about it to cover his ass because a long with it being "wrong and sleazy" it was also illegal. How about you back up and hold him accountable for letting those contract into gain of function research with the ChiComs to begin with?
The truth is always important. If he lied about this, he likely lied about other things. And if he’d been successful, there’d have been no attempts to try to prevent this in the future.
Maintaining trust in public institutions, that would have been worth it
I agree that it was short-sighted.
But the reality is, health authorities lie to us on a regular basis, usually for our own good, though they do get arrogant about it which is an ongoing issue.
Would it have been better for them to have been truthful with us at the beginning of the pandemic, when they said at first that masks weren't necessary?
That would have looked something like the following:
"It's definitely airborne, so we're going to need to mask up around other people. But there aren't nearly enough masks for everyone yet, and the hospitals need most of the ones we have right now, so please don't go out and get a whole bunch until we say it's OK."
Let's be real, it would have been like the toilet paper hoarding, like Wal-Mart opening on Black Friday, only 100X worse. People would be attacking each other over boxes of masks, there'd be warehouse heists, black market prices, the rich would get them and the poor would have none.
I completely disagree, even if it caused shortages and hoarding, they should have told the truth. The short term pain would have paled in comparison to the erosion of trust. That half of the country no longer believes anything from these institutions is far more damaging long term.