It’s been four years since the first American death from the coronavirus. Four years since we were told that wearing masks—even cloth masks—were essential to keeping us safe. The same goes for lockdowns and social distancing. Any inconvenience to society was outweighed by the lives saved.
I appreciate the reporting as far as it went but why call Ivermectin and HCQ + Zinc “quackery?” That is disparaging the work of Harvey Reich (Yale public health, the Ford foundation) and the frontline doctors - Pierre Kory, et al who have saved thousands of lives? Scott Atlas (Stanford) who took the thankless job of advising Trump reported that people with SEVEN comorbidities died of Covid. It was hardly random.
But we DID know. We knew lockdowns do not work. We knew coronavirus vaccines are not sterilizing. We knew masks do not work. It does not take a PhD to question the six foot rule. We knew all this and more prior to 2020. We knew about the reality of human behavior! This isn’t hard!
So, now someone please put the grownups back in charge and fire all these useless idiots who would have you burn down a house to kill a spider. I am a little sick of this 2024 trend of everyone offering up their Covid debriefing sessions and people STILL do not get it!
Having listened to the whole thing and agreeing with 98% of everything said, I realized that I am still angry about the last few years. There needs to be a commission or some kind of reckoning.
I almost didn’t vaccinate my kids with the regular childhood vaccines because my trust in Public Health and Government had vanished. “If they’re unable to accurately convey information about THIS pandemic… if they’re not being fully transparent about the strength of data they had… if this whole thing has become a political sh*tshow… what ELSE have they been completely inept about??”
And that’s when RFK Jr.’s group CHD starts to look attractive.
When you know you’re being misled by a trusted authority so badly, you have to re-examine everything else you thought you knew in light of the new information. This is why everyone is going crazy about other conspiracy theories. People are trying to make sense of a world they thought they knew. And, without an anchor you can trust, you’re left with madness.
”If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.“
Yes. My personal understanding is that… nobody has God anymore, so people are unconsciously extra-terrified of death? So, instead of accepting that rationally accepting our fate that some people will die, and how can we try to help those most at risk, we abandon all logic and rationality in pursuit of zero-covid, as if nobody should ever die of Covid.
Sounds like a f good book and agree with most of what the author discussed on Honestly.
There needs to be responsibility on so many fronts from where How and Why.
How can we ever learn how to respond if there is no honest discussion.
Author put much of the facts and timelines and actions.
There has been questioning from many over time along with Dr. Fauci in Congress not being honest along with endless of times not being able to recall.
We need the data which his book provides his research but not as extensive as can be brought forward from a Commission.
Kudos to Sweden who we knew early on took the best approach.
Even from them we could learn when he states 3% of thier population didn't get the shot.
Hpw did those 3% do in regards of getting Covid vs the 97% that got the shot.
He isn't the expert but a writer who did good work.
On another note that I see with many of the free Press guest that dance around being unpopular with the mainstream moderates by not giving more credit to people like DeSantis and Trump.
Desantis did not sponsor don't say Gay or Trump say to drink bleach. He was speculating about the use of bleach which the media distorted in both cases.
It was good to hear him say how Newsome was so wrong.
Another issue that we need real data is actually how many people died supposedly of covid vs with covid
Fruatrating that so many lives were impacted and we trusted WHO and our health experts who were mostly wrong.
Lives and businesses and schooling ruined.
We are living in a Communist country it seems.
Thanks God for Free press and others but call out the people who are controlling our dialogue.
Ypu did talk on Kamala
but nothing on current administration and President who has been wrong about so much.
Honestly was not completely honest. Mr Nocera may be a big free speech advocate but he clearly was more harsh discussing Republicans and how they handled the pandemic than Democratic governors who were deadly. Not one mention of Andrew Cuomo and all the elderly he killed to retain the contributions he received from Hospitals?
Yes trump never once said or even implied such a thing. This proved to me that he only gets his news via the MSM filter and they have done nothing but lie about Trump.
Trump rambled on at a press conference about the power of light and bleach to kill the virus, then began some vague speculation about getting them into the body, the lungs. Politico includes the entire quote in this article. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — *and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it.* And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, *and I think you said you’re going to test that, too.* It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. *And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning.* Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that."
So it looks like he was saying that people were looking, or had agreed to look, into the use of light.
(One of my previous employers filed one or more patent applications [well prior to Covid] on light delivery systems for internal therapeutic use in humans.)
And he was asking the question whether "disinfectant" could maybe be used internally.
Not suggesting to people to go take bleach.
Sure, Trump often creates some problems with open stream-of-consciousness talk.
But the media create their own problems too -- because they just have to spin the story -- and can't or won't pitch down the middle of the plate.
Even when Trump first said this I thought it was a "nothing burger" of a story. I'm very progressive politically, but I found the media's glee in Trump's stupid gaffs and glaring ignorance to be a distraction and not at all helpful, in fact downright destructive. I didn't like that they summarized it as a suggestion to take bleach, which is, as you point out, inaccurate. But it is also so very, very hard to watch such a large chunk of the population essentially fall in love with this man who, as this story in Politico illustrates, is so careless, incurious, unknowledgeable, uninformed, and self obsessed. I'll take Biden's verbal ,and even the odd physical, slippages any day. He is old but he is sharp and focused mentally. He just doesn't telegraph it physically. (Sorry, I had to slip this Biden stuff in here...I'm so so so tired of all this distortion in the media and people's adolescent expectations that politicians be magicians who will transform their lives, that's what Trump plays into...sigh)
I appreciate that you are willing to acknowledge the false narrative the whole "bleach" stuff was (and still is). I never fell in love with Trump (and wish he wasn't running now) but also was frustrated by the media constantly jumping on false stories and making up things they expect he would say but never did. They (including most of the Republican leaders when he took office) just didn't want him to succeed. I don't get your need to pile on though, calling him incurious, uninformed, etc...though, I'll give you self-obsessed, for sure, and even careless. But, it seemed to me he was curious and did listen to advice. The issue in this thread, shows that, for example. He was speculating about what treatments might work or what experiments might be interesting and useful. What's wrong with that? I just read that politico article and it's striking how crazy the reaction was to what he actually said. That is what people reacted to it seems, the "take" and the cascade of headlines that followed that misrepresented the whole thing. They quote Deborah Birx in that article as being shocked, but she later disclosed in her book that she was misleading Trump and the public on some things, like how long lockdowns would be. I don't see any evidence for your confidence in Biden at this point. We don't get to see him interact with the press or anyone else. He almost never takes a question and when he does it doesn't seem like he answers it. He didn't know his Defense Secretary was hospitalized for 4 days in the midst of several armed conflicts. I don't expect him to be a magician, or even well-spoken all the time, but we never see him answer a question live from even a neutral party.
Re: incurious and uninformed, yes, this is me piling on, which you rightly call me out on (given my initial comment re: media narratives) I was spurred on to use the word incurious by the article from Politico that I linked in my original comment. In it, his aides mention that he didn't have a good grasp of the details from the briefing he attended before the press conference. They, according to the article, were concerned. This coincides with my observations of him during speeches and press conferences, when he is interviewed, etc. He is quick, and can instinctively grasp some things, but I've never seen him show any true grasp of policy details or real interest in them. Perhaps you have observed otherwise.
Re: evidence for my confidence in Biden, it stems from my focus on and interest in policy. I don't follow every move, but what I see and hear gives me confidence that he is paying attention to what's important (not happy with the border policy BTW, but no president so far, neither Obama, Trump, or Biden has dealt with this well and some of it is likely how politicized this issue has become and how divided the Congress is) What is Biden paying attention to that I think is important? Here: Trade policy with China (His policy takes a hard line, but, unlike Trump's unilaterial efforts which also took a hard line, Biden's emphasizes diplomacy. This gives me confidence that he is looking at the big picture in the region and in various sectors, like tech.) Support for Ukraine, I think we need to worry about democracy in Europe, support NATO and support efforts to contain Russia. (Is Ukraine a model country without a history of corruption? No. But engaging productively with Ukraine is simply smart.) There are a number of foreign policy efforts that I wish had happened differently.but my confidence in Biden's administration is not about agreeing with everything, and it's not about soaring speeches about putting American first in some zero sum (we only win when you lose) way. it's about understanding the thinking Domestically, two areas that Donald Trump talks about but achieved nothing on, at least that I can find, are infrastructure and prescription drug costs. Biden negotiated the passage of the a trillion dollar infrastructure plan that Trump kept saying he was going to do, but didn't. He doesn't know how to govern, which is a hard and tedious process. Biden, for all of his flaws, seriously engages the process. I don't really care about that story re: the Defense Secretary. It came and it went and got resolved. I don't care about stupid mistakes like Trump's bleach gaff. I and really don't care about who "gives good press conference." I care about results. And by results I don't mean "Hey I was doing so well during the time Trump (or whoever) was president and eggs didn't cost as much." (BTW: in 1960 we spent 17.5% of our paychecks on food; now it's 9-10%; we pay less for food and more for healthcare...big surprise! big win for us! yay!) I care about the future, whether we are doing the right things now to build a strong one. People can disagree on what we should focus on, but what I find baffling is how people would trust Trump to focus on anything.
Thanks for such a great reply. Like you, I don't keep up with every policy debate and tend to cut politicians a good bit of slack in public speaking; you can't be on top of your game at all times, especially now that everyone has a camera in their hand. I'm not sure I buy all of the accounts from Trump staffers, some weren't really in his camp and seemed like they wanted to tell the story the media wanted to hear. But, I wasn't in the room, either, but I take some of that with some skepticism. Certainly, Trump had a very different management style than any career politician would. I do know someone who had worked on a development project for him 15 or so years ago as an environmental consultant. They had a few issues related to environmental permits that needed to be resolved and in the meeting he said Trump listened to his description of the issues, and once he understood what it would take to comply, he basically just said, do whatever you have to to comply with the regulations and let them go to it. So, he didn't engage in a lengthy back and forth, just took the experts opinion, understood what the cost would be, and then moved on.
I'm not sure I agree with what you say about what Biden is paying attention to, or the approach they are taking on issues, like China. I believe in free trade, but also thought the tariff approach with China was a good move at the time, when our economy was strong and could absorb some blowback if it came. China doesn't play by free trade rules; they steal intellectual property and patents, they misstate economic statistics, they force companies to take on Chinese ownership partners, among other things that give them a competitive advantage. So, applying some force seemed like a good tactical move. I agree with you on Europe and NATO, but also think the NATO partners needed a kick to get their contributions to defense up to the agreed level. And I'm not sure some of the NATO members really embrace the partnership at all (i.e., Turkey). It seems like we agree more than disagree on what is important. Even though I liked some of Trumps policies, I think he's too big of a distraction at this point to be effective.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to be angry at Biden for summarily firing thousands of people for not taking a vaccine that doesn’t stop transmission and has no liability for a company (Pfizer) that previously paid over $2 billion for healthcare marketing fraud. It also didn’t work and has an astonishing number of injury and death reports associated with it, a fact being obediently hidden by our incompetent, corrupt press.
You seem open-minded enough for me to share this with you. I thought it was an interesting look at someone who formerly hated Trump based on what the media reported about him and after seeing and hearing him speak in person made them reconsider. I hope you will read it.
Mr Nocera also fails to hold anyone or any institution accountable instead declaring our pandemic response was our society's failure. B.S. Our governmental health institutions cannot allow ideological capture to influence their position on the science. Just the facts.....don't try to anticipate how the public will interpret the messaging and add spin, just the facts please. We can handle the truth.
Not only ideological capture but capture by the pharmaceutical industry with a lucrative revolving door waiting for those who go along. I would also like to have heard the justification for closing down hundreds of small businesses while leaving Walmart, liquor stores and strip clubs open. Sounds sciencey.
It has made me question what good some of these agencies are. If they fumble this badly on something that is a major part of their mission shouldn’t they resign in disgrace? Shouldn’t their charter be revoked?
About all that needed to be done through this whole thing were public service announcements. If these “experts” had done that our results would have been no worse and possibly better.
Well, I guess this is an important topic. But let's make sure that we don't remember that nearly all of this came from Democrats. Nope. We need to talk about "America's" Covid failures because, you know, it's not like ONE major political party pretty much supported the whole thing and all of its adherents demonized anyone who disagreed with them.
Nope, this was a national failure. Definitely NOT the result of one, overarching, dominant political machine...
Bari Weiss needs to spend some time investigating the Democratic Party and stop trying to rehabilitate it and gaslight us into believing that she is open minded.
Agreed - or here = Denis Rancourt's ACM research data findings: No Infectious Disease Pandemic. Excess deaths spiked all over the world after the roll out of the mrna bio weapon.
And....The military lists the mRNA gene tech as a bio weapon which is deploy-able if needed during times of war, against the enemy. I guess humanity is the enemy now. Specifically the poor and disabled. Because that is who died during the "plandemic".
The air force manuals have been shared on social media showing the information about the mRNA gene therapy being a possible bio weapon to be used in times of war against the enemy.
Nocera makes great points, but he skips over a few things and I think they might be important. Masks simply have no evidence supporting them, not individually or in societies. Even an N95 mask does not prevent transmission. Nocera's words were, "it can keep you safe." No, it really can't. There is no evidence to show that. Also, the vaccines--can we just start with the very necessary and basic premise that the definition of vaccine was changed by the CDC on its website in order to allow for the mRNA jabs that do NOT prevent getting the disease, NOR transmission of the disease. Those are the basic functions of a vaccine, and this one does neither of those. If the "medical community" wonders why all the vaccine hesitation, that might be a good place to start looking.
Ultimately, when you think about how to fix health care, you wonder about whether it should be taken over by the government.
To say that a theory has its limitations should be a given. Most complex theories have limitations. Socialism is a wonderful theory, but its practical limitations are obvious and every regime that's killed tens of millions of people in the last 100 years or so was put in place by a revolution of some sort that installed a socialist/communist leadership.
Even Libertarians acknowledge that capitalism requires regulation. The US has anti-trust law in place - unenforced these days - but intended to address individual companies that abuse the concept of the free marketplace in order to extract profit. Capitalism works best when companies can expect reward for better products and not for market manipulation. Google, Microsoft, Amazon and Apple, among others, should have been broken up a long time ago.
Should the government take over health care as has been done with schools? Call it the European/Canadian model. It depends on what we expect from health care. If doctors and other medical professionals are employees of the state, what do we lose?
Sometimes I question whether the schools should be privatized. We accept public schools that can't even educate 1 in 50 of their students to reach basic competency level in reading and mathematics. This is not to blame teachers - it's to blame a government that accepts this result. Teachers have no other choice than to keep reducing expectations and parents have no other choice than to leave the worst districts if they can.
It's really the same problem as health care faces, but from the opposite side (we have had public schools for so long that the concept is a given). If we abandon the concept of government-supported schools, how do we preserve the fundamental moral issue that every American should be given equal opportunity to succeed? In Europe, they view health care the same way.
It ultimately comes down to how much we're willing to give up in order to be part of a civilization. The COVID issue taught us that trusting the government is dangerous because politicians used the crisis to advance their own agendas. But if we can't trust government, can we have civilization?
No theory is going to answer that question. Plain and simple, we need better politicians. But how? Even knowing this, look at what we're going to have choose from in November.
While this episode contained many good points, I was disappointed that the doctors/scientists who have been on the front line successfully treating Covid were not the ones discussing what happened. He also disparaged the treatments that actually worked but were shut down by the government and big Pharma. Since the author repeated the debunked lie that Trump encouraged people to drink bleach, I have to wonder where he got his other information.
Just finished listening to this podcast. To say I am disappointed is being mild. The author of this book still believes in patently false things. Ignores the whole world of evidence put out there in the public domain using Pfizer own documents that proof that the mRNA shots are neither safe or effective. Ignores the multitude of studies proving the effectiveness of ivermectin and HQC. In fact there are the governments own studies prior to Covid-19 showing HQC was very effective against SARS-1. So you want to be taken seriously and yet be allowed to continue to parrot the lies put out there by the government. Absolutely no way anyone should read this persons book as it ignores the truth. Bari promised us the truth no matter what. So get someone else like Pierre Kory Peter McCullough Naomi Wolf(she has done a wonderful job of exposing The crime of a century using Pfizer own documents). Let them have exposure so we all can hear the truth. This author ignores the truth. He is still working to protect the people that did this evil called Covid-19. 24 million dead and counting. 17 million from the shots. The story of a century is right in your face do not ignore it.
Well said. I didn't even listen because I don't need more lies to make my blood boil. Enough is enough.
Are you familiar with Denis Rancourt's All Cause Mortality data research? How his research proves without question there was no infectious disease pandemic and in fact there has never been an infectious disease pandemic during the 1900s.
I ask you this because I know Denis has been an outlier for quite some time. He's been saying this, his data has been saying this since June 2020. He was on RFK Jr.'s podcast in October 2022, which is where I first heard of this information and since then he has been on countless other podcasts sharing his findings. He has been to all the alternative health conferences with all the other censored experts trying to share truth with the masses.
Since learning of his research findings I find myself so frustrated when I hear people continually talk about "Covid" and "long Covid" as if it's truly something and that people need to be afraid of it. I do realize that the idea of "long covid" as a real thing allows people to make money off of those who think they have it, but I feel that if we are ever going to move forward as a society in TRUTH, we should be trying to expose the truth and the truth is that there was no infectious disease pandemic.
The entire thing was a psyop perpetrated on the people for greed, harm, control, etc., ?????
P.S. Bari, we do still need to talk about Covid because this podcast was a joke. Please try again because the failure of this episode reflects poorly on you.
Absolutely true. Repeated nothing but lies from the swamp. Oh we got a couple things wrong. What a lie. The white washing of the government actions is out and Bari gave them a voice here. Shameful.
I do not think that this subject is the least bit funny. What is wrong with these two men? They sound as if they are on late night TV, promoting the book. How infuriating! I am not the least bit amused nor will I be reading the book. Huge mistakes were made. People in red and in blue states did not all agree. It is not funny that Florida opened beaches and powers that be then flocked there. Abuse of power locally and around the world was not and is not the least bit funny. Reactions to the shots were terrible. The deaths in nursing homes were terrible. The fact that some people still think cloth masks work is sad, not funny. The CDC has lost all credibility. WHO has done the same. None of this is entertaining or amusing and capitalism is not the problem. The amount of hubris in this podcast is nauseating.
A few resources, that perhaps you have already seen:
There was no infectious disease pandemic. The #ACM data shows this w/out question. We can't move forward in truth if more than 1/2 of us believe in a fairy-tale.
For Free Press/Honestly usual standards, this was a pretty poor showing to be honest. There were some good points made but you had to slog through random political observations that added little value. Still,
1. There are two Neil/Niall Ferguson's. The epidemiologist (bad) and historian (awesome good). Maybe it's obvious, but it might have been helpful to distinguish the two especially in a podcast that veered from medical to political.
2. Our potential in the USA to provide healthcare may be one of the best, but the execution between insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals, nursing homes and government is beyond awful. I'm not sure that it's fixable in its current state. A Medicare for All-style approach would be horrendous due to costs, wastes and guaranteed poor service and a fully for-profit approach would fail due to the unfortunately natural inclination to drive profits over patient outcomes.
3. Moynihan seemed to try to turn Covid response into a racial episode and Nocera correctly turned it back to demographics and poor advice from the government. I do agree with another commenter that not bringing up the Cuomo nursing home death camps was a big omission - maybe it's in the book tho.
4. Another good point made is that this government just has to stop politicizing every single damn thing...especially when it comes to medical care. Except for the whackos on the far left and far right, most people just want their government to be trustworthy. They can start by telling us how the next pandemic ought to be handled and properly examining what went wrong - from the origins (important, even tho both didn't seem to think so) to treatment to prevention to vaccines to focusing on most susceptible communities and so on.
We knew we didn't know the answer but still shut down other experts who put forth reasonable arguments. Want to make the pandemic different? Send Fauci to prison for years and take away his pension.
I appreciate the reporting as far as it went but why call Ivermectin and HCQ + Zinc “quackery?” That is disparaging the work of Harvey Reich (Yale public health, the Ford foundation) and the frontline doctors - Pierre Kory, et al who have saved thousands of lives? Scott Atlas (Stanford) who took the thankless job of advising Trump reported that people with SEVEN comorbidities died of Covid. It was hardly random.
Pausing podcast to register my outrage.
“We could NOT have done better” ?!
I disagree vehemently.
But we DID know. We knew lockdowns do not work. We knew coronavirus vaccines are not sterilizing. We knew masks do not work. It does not take a PhD to question the six foot rule. We knew all this and more prior to 2020. We knew about the reality of human behavior! This isn’t hard!
So, now someone please put the grownups back in charge and fire all these useless idiots who would have you burn down a house to kill a spider. I am a little sick of this 2024 trend of everyone offering up their Covid debriefing sessions and people STILL do not get it!
I was told at a hospital recently I had to wear a mask????
Having listened to the whole thing and agreeing with 98% of everything said, I realized that I am still angry about the last few years. There needs to be a commission or some kind of reckoning.
I almost didn’t vaccinate my kids with the regular childhood vaccines because my trust in Public Health and Government had vanished. “If they’re unable to accurately convey information about THIS pandemic… if they’re not being fully transparent about the strength of data they had… if this whole thing has become a political sh*tshow… what ELSE have they been completely inept about??”
And that’s when RFK Jr.’s group CHD starts to look attractive.
When you know you’re being misled by a trusted authority so badly, you have to re-examine everything else you thought you knew in light of the new information. This is why everyone is going crazy about other conspiracy theories. People are trying to make sense of a world they thought they knew. And, without an anchor you can trust, you’re left with madness.
”If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.“
James 1:5-6 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/jas.1.5-6.NIV
We could have done a lot better by not trying to do so much!
Yes. My personal understanding is that… nobody has God anymore, so people are unconsciously extra-terrified of death? So, instead of accepting that rationally accepting our fate that some people will die, and how can we try to help those most at risk, we abandon all logic and rationality in pursuit of zero-covid, as if nobody should ever die of Covid.
Sounds like a f good book and agree with most of what the author discussed on Honestly.
There needs to be responsibility on so many fronts from where How and Why.
How can we ever learn how to respond if there is no honest discussion.
Author put much of the facts and timelines and actions.
There has been questioning from many over time along with Dr. Fauci in Congress not being honest along with endless of times not being able to recall.
We need the data which his book provides his research but not as extensive as can be brought forward from a Commission.
Kudos to Sweden who we knew early on took the best approach.
Even from them we could learn when he states 3% of thier population didn't get the shot.
Hpw did those 3% do in regards of getting Covid vs the 97% that got the shot.
He isn't the expert but a writer who did good work.
On another note that I see with many of the free Press guest that dance around being unpopular with the mainstream moderates by not giving more credit to people like DeSantis and Trump.
Desantis did not sponsor don't say Gay or Trump say to drink bleach. He was speculating about the use of bleach which the media distorted in both cases.
It was good to hear him say how Newsome was so wrong.
Another issue that we need real data is actually how many people died supposedly of covid vs with covid
Fruatrating that so many lives were impacted and we trusted WHO and our health experts who were mostly wrong.
Lives and businesses and schooling ruined.
We are living in a Communist country it seems.
Thanks God for Free press and others but call out the people who are controlling our dialogue.
Ypu did talk on Kamala
but nothing on current administration and President who has been wrong about so much.
I vote for a Commission.
Good luck with the book
Honestly was not completely honest. Mr Nocera may be a big free speech advocate but he clearly was more harsh discussing Republicans and how they handled the pandemic than Democratic governors who were deadly. Not one mention of Andrew Cuomo and all the elderly he killed to retain the contributions he received from Hospitals?
Did you go to school on 91 St?
I did.
"When he suggested you take some bleach . . . "
I remember Trump riffing on things that investigators were or could be looking into.
I don't recall him suggesting that "you" "take bleach."
The authors are still stuck in the political talking point universe when it comes to the ultimate bad man Trump.
Yes trump never once said or even implied such a thing. This proved to me that he only gets his news via the MSM filter and they have done nothing but lie about Trump.
Trump rambled on at a press conference about the power of light and bleach to kill the virus, then began some vague speculation about getting them into the body, the lungs. Politico includes the entire quote in this article. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
Thanks for the link!
From the quotation in the link:
"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — *and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it.* And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, *and I think you said you’re going to test that, too.* It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. *And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning.* Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that."
So it looks like he was saying that people were looking, or had agreed to look, into the use of light.
(One of my previous employers filed one or more patent applications [well prior to Covid] on light delivery systems for internal therapeutic use in humans.)
And he was asking the question whether "disinfectant" could maybe be used internally.
Not suggesting to people to go take bleach.
Sure, Trump often creates some problems with open stream-of-consciousness talk.
But the media create their own problems too -- because they just have to spin the story -- and can't or won't pitch down the middle of the plate.
Even when Trump first said this I thought it was a "nothing burger" of a story. I'm very progressive politically, but I found the media's glee in Trump's stupid gaffs and glaring ignorance to be a distraction and not at all helpful, in fact downright destructive. I didn't like that they summarized it as a suggestion to take bleach, which is, as you point out, inaccurate. But it is also so very, very hard to watch such a large chunk of the population essentially fall in love with this man who, as this story in Politico illustrates, is so careless, incurious, unknowledgeable, uninformed, and self obsessed. I'll take Biden's verbal ,and even the odd physical, slippages any day. He is old but he is sharp and focused mentally. He just doesn't telegraph it physically. (Sorry, I had to slip this Biden stuff in here...I'm so so so tired of all this distortion in the media and people's adolescent expectations that politicians be magicians who will transform their lives, that's what Trump plays into...sigh)
I appreciate that you are willing to acknowledge the false narrative the whole "bleach" stuff was (and still is). I never fell in love with Trump (and wish he wasn't running now) but also was frustrated by the media constantly jumping on false stories and making up things they expect he would say but never did. They (including most of the Republican leaders when he took office) just didn't want him to succeed. I don't get your need to pile on though, calling him incurious, uninformed, etc...though, I'll give you self-obsessed, for sure, and even careless. But, it seemed to me he was curious and did listen to advice. The issue in this thread, shows that, for example. He was speculating about what treatments might work or what experiments might be interesting and useful. What's wrong with that? I just read that politico article and it's striking how crazy the reaction was to what he actually said. That is what people reacted to it seems, the "take" and the cascade of headlines that followed that misrepresented the whole thing. They quote Deborah Birx in that article as being shocked, but she later disclosed in her book that she was misleading Trump and the public on some things, like how long lockdowns would be. I don't see any evidence for your confidence in Biden at this point. We don't get to see him interact with the press or anyone else. He almost never takes a question and when he does it doesn't seem like he answers it. He didn't know his Defense Secretary was hospitalized for 4 days in the midst of several armed conflicts. I don't expect him to be a magician, or even well-spoken all the time, but we never see him answer a question live from even a neutral party.
Re: incurious and uninformed, yes, this is me piling on, which you rightly call me out on (given my initial comment re: media narratives) I was spurred on to use the word incurious by the article from Politico that I linked in my original comment. In it, his aides mention that he didn't have a good grasp of the details from the briefing he attended before the press conference. They, according to the article, were concerned. This coincides with my observations of him during speeches and press conferences, when he is interviewed, etc. He is quick, and can instinctively grasp some things, but I've never seen him show any true grasp of policy details or real interest in them. Perhaps you have observed otherwise.
Re: evidence for my confidence in Biden, it stems from my focus on and interest in policy. I don't follow every move, but what I see and hear gives me confidence that he is paying attention to what's important (not happy with the border policy BTW, but no president so far, neither Obama, Trump, or Biden has dealt with this well and some of it is likely how politicized this issue has become and how divided the Congress is) What is Biden paying attention to that I think is important? Here: Trade policy with China (His policy takes a hard line, but, unlike Trump's unilaterial efforts which also took a hard line, Biden's emphasizes diplomacy. This gives me confidence that he is looking at the big picture in the region and in various sectors, like tech.) Support for Ukraine, I think we need to worry about democracy in Europe, support NATO and support efforts to contain Russia. (Is Ukraine a model country without a history of corruption? No. But engaging productively with Ukraine is simply smart.) There are a number of foreign policy efforts that I wish had happened differently.but my confidence in Biden's administration is not about agreeing with everything, and it's not about soaring speeches about putting American first in some zero sum (we only win when you lose) way. it's about understanding the thinking Domestically, two areas that Donald Trump talks about but achieved nothing on, at least that I can find, are infrastructure and prescription drug costs. Biden negotiated the passage of the a trillion dollar infrastructure plan that Trump kept saying he was going to do, but didn't. He doesn't know how to govern, which is a hard and tedious process. Biden, for all of his flaws, seriously engages the process. I don't really care about that story re: the Defense Secretary. It came and it went and got resolved. I don't care about stupid mistakes like Trump's bleach gaff. I and really don't care about who "gives good press conference." I care about results. And by results I don't mean "Hey I was doing so well during the time Trump (or whoever) was president and eggs didn't cost as much." (BTW: in 1960 we spent 17.5% of our paychecks on food; now it's 9-10%; we pay less for food and more for healthcare...big surprise! big win for us! yay!) I care about the future, whether we are doing the right things now to build a strong one. People can disagree on what we should focus on, but what I find baffling is how people would trust Trump to focus on anything.
Thanks for such a great reply. Like you, I don't keep up with every policy debate and tend to cut politicians a good bit of slack in public speaking; you can't be on top of your game at all times, especially now that everyone has a camera in their hand. I'm not sure I buy all of the accounts from Trump staffers, some weren't really in his camp and seemed like they wanted to tell the story the media wanted to hear. But, I wasn't in the room, either, but I take some of that with some skepticism. Certainly, Trump had a very different management style than any career politician would. I do know someone who had worked on a development project for him 15 or so years ago as an environmental consultant. They had a few issues related to environmental permits that needed to be resolved and in the meeting he said Trump listened to his description of the issues, and once he understood what it would take to comply, he basically just said, do whatever you have to to comply with the regulations and let them go to it. So, he didn't engage in a lengthy back and forth, just took the experts opinion, understood what the cost would be, and then moved on.
I'm not sure I agree with what you say about what Biden is paying attention to, or the approach they are taking on issues, like China. I believe in free trade, but also thought the tariff approach with China was a good move at the time, when our economy was strong and could absorb some blowback if it came. China doesn't play by free trade rules; they steal intellectual property and patents, they misstate economic statistics, they force companies to take on Chinese ownership partners, among other things that give them a competitive advantage. So, applying some force seemed like a good tactical move. I agree with you on Europe and NATO, but also think the NATO partners needed a kick to get their contributions to defense up to the agreed level. And I'm not sure some of the NATO members really embrace the partnership at all (i.e., Turkey). It seems like we agree more than disagree on what is important. Even though I liked some of Trumps policies, I think he's too big of a distraction at this point to be effective.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to be angry at Biden for summarily firing thousands of people for not taking a vaccine that doesn’t stop transmission and has no liability for a company (Pfizer) that previously paid over $2 billion for healthcare marketing fraud. It also didn’t work and has an astonishing number of injury and death reports associated with it, a fact being obediently hidden by our incompetent, corrupt press.
You seem open-minded enough for me to share this with you. I thought it was an interesting look at someone who formerly hated Trump based on what the media reported about him and after seeing and hearing him speak in person made them reconsider. I hope you will read it.
https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/on-hearing-president-trump-in-person
Correct.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33890267/
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210309/Ultraviolet-light-therapy-reduces-viral-load-in-critically-ill-COVID-19-patients.aspx
Mr Nocera also fails to hold anyone or any institution accountable instead declaring our pandemic response was our society's failure. B.S. Our governmental health institutions cannot allow ideological capture to influence their position on the science. Just the facts.....don't try to anticipate how the public will interpret the messaging and add spin, just the facts please. We can handle the truth.
Not only ideological capture but capture by the pharmaceutical industry with a lucrative revolving door waiting for those who go along. I would also like to have heard the justification for closing down hundreds of small businesses while leaving Walmart, liquor stores and strip clubs open. Sounds sciencey.
Well said, I left out the part about corporate capture that clearly had an even bigger influence on Covid policy making.
It has made me question what good some of these agencies are. If they fumble this badly on something that is a major part of their mission shouldn’t they resign in disgrace? Shouldn’t their charter be revoked?
About all that needed to be done through this whole thing were public service announcements. If these “experts” had done that our results would have been no worse and possibly better.
Well, I guess this is an important topic. But let's make sure that we don't remember that nearly all of this came from Democrats. Nope. We need to talk about "America's" Covid failures because, you know, it's not like ONE major political party pretty much supported the whole thing and all of its adherents demonized anyone who disagreed with them.
Nope, this was a national failure. Definitely NOT the result of one, overarching, dominant political machine...
Bari Weiss needs to spend some time investigating the Democratic Party and stop trying to rehabilitate it and gaslight us into believing that she is open minded.
One of the authors:
"I'm a big believer--I mean I believe the vaccines saved a lot of people and was this hugely important . . ."
Believer is an apt term. Try being curious about all-cause mortality data, such as discussed here, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ej5Se4gMRA
Agreed - or here = Denis Rancourt's ACM research data findings: No Infectious Disease Pandemic. Excess deaths spiked all over the world after the roll out of the mrna bio weapon.
Listen here: https://twitter.com/denisrancourt/status/1740872581987635278
And....The military lists the mRNA gene tech as a bio weapon which is deploy-able if needed during times of war, against the enemy. I guess humanity is the enemy now. Specifically the poor and disabled. Because that is who died during the "plandemic".
The air force manuals have been shared on social media showing the information about the mRNA gene therapy being a possible bio weapon to be used in times of war against the enemy.
Nocera makes great points, but he skips over a few things and I think they might be important. Masks simply have no evidence supporting them, not individually or in societies. Even an N95 mask does not prevent transmission. Nocera's words were, "it can keep you safe." No, it really can't. There is no evidence to show that. Also, the vaccines--can we just start with the very necessary and basic premise that the definition of vaccine was changed by the CDC on its website in order to allow for the mRNA jabs that do NOT prevent getting the disease, NOR transmission of the disease. Those are the basic functions of a vaccine, and this one does neither of those. If the "medical community" wonders why all the vaccine hesitation, that might be a good place to start looking.
Ultimately, when you think about how to fix health care, you wonder about whether it should be taken over by the government.
To say that a theory has its limitations should be a given. Most complex theories have limitations. Socialism is a wonderful theory, but its practical limitations are obvious and every regime that's killed tens of millions of people in the last 100 years or so was put in place by a revolution of some sort that installed a socialist/communist leadership.
Even Libertarians acknowledge that capitalism requires regulation. The US has anti-trust law in place - unenforced these days - but intended to address individual companies that abuse the concept of the free marketplace in order to extract profit. Capitalism works best when companies can expect reward for better products and not for market manipulation. Google, Microsoft, Amazon and Apple, among others, should have been broken up a long time ago.
Should the government take over health care as has been done with schools? Call it the European/Canadian model. It depends on what we expect from health care. If doctors and other medical professionals are employees of the state, what do we lose?
Sometimes I question whether the schools should be privatized. We accept public schools that can't even educate 1 in 50 of their students to reach basic competency level in reading and mathematics. This is not to blame teachers - it's to blame a government that accepts this result. Teachers have no other choice than to keep reducing expectations and parents have no other choice than to leave the worst districts if they can.
It's really the same problem as health care faces, but from the opposite side (we have had public schools for so long that the concept is a given). If we abandon the concept of government-supported schools, how do we preserve the fundamental moral issue that every American should be given equal opportunity to succeed? In Europe, they view health care the same way.
It ultimately comes down to how much we're willing to give up in order to be part of a civilization. The COVID issue taught us that trusting the government is dangerous because politicians used the crisis to advance their own agendas. But if we can't trust government, can we have civilization?
No theory is going to answer that question. Plain and simple, we need better politicians. But how? Even knowing this, look at what we're going to have choose from in November.
While this episode contained many good points, I was disappointed that the doctors/scientists who have been on the front line successfully treating Covid were not the ones discussing what happened. He also disparaged the treatments that actually worked but were shut down by the government and big Pharma. Since the author repeated the debunked lie that Trump encouraged people to drink bleach, I have to wonder where he got his other information.
Just finished listening to this podcast. To say I am disappointed is being mild. The author of this book still believes in patently false things. Ignores the whole world of evidence put out there in the public domain using Pfizer own documents that proof that the mRNA shots are neither safe or effective. Ignores the multitude of studies proving the effectiveness of ivermectin and HQC. In fact there are the governments own studies prior to Covid-19 showing HQC was very effective against SARS-1. So you want to be taken seriously and yet be allowed to continue to parrot the lies put out there by the government. Absolutely no way anyone should read this persons book as it ignores the truth. Bari promised us the truth no matter what. So get someone else like Pierre Kory Peter McCullough Naomi Wolf(she has done a wonderful job of exposing The crime of a century using Pfizer own documents). Let them have exposure so we all can hear the truth. This author ignores the truth. He is still working to protect the people that did this evil called Covid-19. 24 million dead and counting. 17 million from the shots. The story of a century is right in your face do not ignore it.
Well said. I didn't even listen because I don't need more lies to make my blood boil. Enough is enough.
Are you familiar with Denis Rancourt's All Cause Mortality data research? How his research proves without question there was no infectious disease pandemic and in fact there has never been an infectious disease pandemic during the 1900s.
I ask you this because I know Denis has been an outlier for quite some time. He's been saying this, his data has been saying this since June 2020. He was on RFK Jr.'s podcast in October 2022, which is where I first heard of this information and since then he has been on countless other podcasts sharing his findings. He has been to all the alternative health conferences with all the other censored experts trying to share truth with the masses.
Since learning of his research findings I find myself so frustrated when I hear people continually talk about "Covid" and "long Covid" as if it's truly something and that people need to be afraid of it. I do realize that the idea of "long covid" as a real thing allows people to make money off of those who think they have it, but I feel that if we are ever going to move forward as a society in TRUTH, we should be trying to expose the truth and the truth is that there was no infectious disease pandemic.
The entire thing was a psyop perpetrated on the people for greed, harm, control, etc., ?????
Listen here: https://twitter.com/denisrancourt/status/1740872581987635278
P.S. Bari, we do still need to talk about Covid because this podcast was a joke. Please try again because the failure of this episode reflects poorly on you.
Absolutely true. Repeated nothing but lies from the swamp. Oh we got a couple things wrong. What a lie. The white washing of the government actions is out and Bari gave them a voice here. Shameful.
Mistakes Were NOT Made: An Anthem for Justice (by Margaret Anna Alice; Read by Dr. Tess Lawrie)
https://youtu.be/ueUXNL-A3Zg?si=5HOA36LAp0k9ACzt
I do not think that this subject is the least bit funny. What is wrong with these two men? They sound as if they are on late night TV, promoting the book. How infuriating! I am not the least bit amused nor will I be reading the book. Huge mistakes were made. People in red and in blue states did not all agree. It is not funny that Florida opened beaches and powers that be then flocked there. Abuse of power locally and around the world was not and is not the least bit funny. Reactions to the shots were terrible. The deaths in nursing homes were terrible. The fact that some people still think cloth masks work is sad, not funny. The CDC has lost all credibility. WHO has done the same. None of this is entertaining or amusing and capitalism is not the problem. The amount of hubris in this podcast is nauseating.
Well said.
A few resources, that perhaps you have already seen:
There was no infectious disease pandemic. The #ACM data shows this w/out question. We can't move forward in truth if more than 1/2 of us believe in a fairy-tale.
Listen here: https://twitter.com/denisrancourt/status/1740872581987635278
And....
Mistakes Were NOT Made: An Anthem for Justice (by Margaret Anna Alice; Read by Dr. Tess Lawrie)
https://youtu.be/ueUXNL-A3Zg?si=5HOA36LAp0k9ACzt
Every school library needs the complete works of Thomas Sowell.
For Free Press/Honestly usual standards, this was a pretty poor showing to be honest. There were some good points made but you had to slog through random political observations that added little value. Still,
1. There are two Neil/Niall Ferguson's. The epidemiologist (bad) and historian (awesome good). Maybe it's obvious, but it might have been helpful to distinguish the two especially in a podcast that veered from medical to political.
2. Our potential in the USA to provide healthcare may be one of the best, but the execution between insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals, nursing homes and government is beyond awful. I'm not sure that it's fixable in its current state. A Medicare for All-style approach would be horrendous due to costs, wastes and guaranteed poor service and a fully for-profit approach would fail due to the unfortunately natural inclination to drive profits over patient outcomes.
3. Moynihan seemed to try to turn Covid response into a racial episode and Nocera correctly turned it back to demographics and poor advice from the government. I do agree with another commenter that not bringing up the Cuomo nursing home death camps was a big omission - maybe it's in the book tho.
4. Another good point made is that this government just has to stop politicizing every single damn thing...especially when it comes to medical care. Except for the whackos on the far left and far right, most people just want their government to be trustworthy. They can start by telling us how the next pandemic ought to be handled and properly examining what went wrong - from the origins (important, even tho both didn't seem to think so) to treatment to prevention to vaccines to focusing on most susceptible communities and so on.
We knew we didn't know the answer but still shut down other experts who put forth reasonable arguments. Want to make the pandemic different? Send Fauci to prison for years and take away his pension.