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Teachinprek's avatar

This all started with a flawed method to teach deaf children to memorize words as images. It worked for deaf children who couldn't hear phonemes better than phonics for obvious reasons. Then, with no scientific evidence whatsoever, the professors of education thought they had discovered a secret easy way to teach reading even to the most struggling students. A miracle method.

And, from there, we started trying every "easier" method of learning that came to mind for any subject til we actually eliminated many subjects in elementary schools (grammar, history, geography to name a few) and have even eliminated just learning to read fir many students! We determined these things were either unnecessary (those fools for so many centuries wasting precious time learning grammar and reading, gasp, science books) or that it was all developmentally inappropriate for children. All of the sudden.

What never happens in education is calm and thoughtfulness. Grab that next miracle method that will be so much easier and fun for the child and throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub and everything else in the bathroom frim befire.. so that little Johnny won't feel badly because he is struggling more than Tommy.

Learning is struggle. Learning requires effort, and practice, and failures and STUDY after school in a quiet space for learning. Learning requires tenacity. None of these things are required in our schools today in the vast majority of Elementary and Middle schools and hardly ever in high school. Where teachers are told to be a "guide on the side" because the children teach each other SO much more than a teacher ever could. In any grade and any subject no less.

And teachers will declare with straight faces that math is about the process of trying to solve a problem and using reasonable diagrams or pictures or "strategies" to try to figure things out BUT coming to the correct answer isn't needed for learning math.

Where do we know this isn't true at all? In public school sports programs. Can you see a football coach being merely a guide on the side while the children teach each other not only the rules of the game but the best strategies, plays, methods and fitness training? And where the coach made sure no one ever felt badly if they didn't try hard to catch a super easy pass or said it was okay if a child didn't feel like running so fast right now or didn't want to practice a skill (drill and kill is evil you know).

Yeah. We do know you need teachers and practice and, yes, sometimes even drills to master anything somewhat permanently. We KNOW it but pretend otherwise. Unless its football. And the school trophies might be affected.

Pathetic and tragic all at once. Oh and pssst, parents, you know elite familues send their kids to schools that require students do hours of homework starting no later than 8th grade. ..you know, elite schools like Exeter? Those kids that go on to Ivy Leagues. Whose parents don't care that your working class child is learning to pretend to solve math problems at public schools.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

This is the most pertinent comment on here. I do question the wisdom.of shooting for the Ivy League as a goal though.

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Teachinprek's avatar

But it's hardly a choice for public school kids. That is my beef. They aren't taught well enough to get into Ivies or, if let in with diversity points, to succeed once there. And there are absolute financial benefits to an Ivy education long term. Statistically factual. I do not personally care, but I resent public school kids being intellectually and academically hogtied so that cannot attend these schools. That is wrong.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

I am a product of public education and was a big believer therein. No longer. Well that is not accurate, I am still a believer in public education just not as currently practiced. And part of that is because we pay so much homage to the so-called elite institutions that we have been unduly influenced by them. The Ivies influence everything downstream . To the point that we let them sell us a bill of goods. In the education realm that has resulted in kids that cannot read, write, or do math proficiently. So while I recognize your point about the stats and Ivies, I think it is time to seriously reevaluate that dogma.

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Teachinprek's avatar

What galls me is that their own children are not fed this gobbleygook education. Thus preparing them for future academic and professional chalkenges. Whether those challenges are at an ivy League school or in a public education institution such as Berkeley, really doesn't matter to my point. The public school children are being fed this garbage from Harvard and thus are not capable of attending Harvard. Whether that's a worthy goal or not. The elites are trained in educated so that they can succeed anywhere. Our kids are not.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

Absolutely agree. I think we are just emphasizing different trees in the same forest, or maybe examining the same tree from different locations.. Plus I think the "elites" kids succeed because of who they know , not what they know. To me it is contrary to everything America once stood for.

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Teachinprek's avatar

Hmm. My original reply to this disappeared. I basically wrote a treatise about all the things elite students learn in elite schools. The level of academic rigor and the level of writing expected of students even in high school is astronomical. In public schools. Teachers are reading novels like The Outsiders aloud to students in high school. In elite schools Students are reading Voltaire and Plato at home for homework and writing about it. What one student at a public school who can barely read can accomplish compared to a child who can effectively debate Voltaire with an adult, it's not just who you know. It definitely is what you know and how well you can communicate. One student will become a leader. The other student will never have the skills to do that. Not at a high level of leadership anyway.

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Lynne Morris's avatar

So classical education is taught in elite schools and the latest trend is taught in public schools? If that is the case public education is a sham.

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Teachinprek's avatar

That os exactly right. I know. I attended an elite school in the '80s and I tutor students who wish to gain entry into elite schools now. Even the assessments that students take for admission into elite schools require a student to be able to read and comprehend classical literature. Even for entry into seventh grade

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Sunny Gardens's avatar

“...coming to the correct answer isn’t needed for learning math”

When I was listening to the podcast, the reading method as described instantly reminded me of the inane way they teach math today. I was floored when I saw how much time they spent learning how to get close to the answer. That’s when I bought some old math books and started tutoring my kids at home.

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