User's avatar
тна Return to thread
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Apr 25, 2023
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

Well-said. That's the biggest elephant in the room, especially the jab mandate and the irrational reaction to Covid in general. Those certainly killed morale big time. As for Afghanistan, it was not the withdrawal per se, but the chaotic and humiliating manner in which it was done (no doubt set into motion by Trump, who effectively sandbagged Biden in that regard). The problem wasn't that we pulled out too soon, but rather 19 years too late. It was basically another Vietnam, but at least with the Vietnam withdrawal, we achieved nearly two years of relative "peace with honor" (i.e. temporarily saving face) before the North ultimately reneged on the deal and took over the South. Not so with the Taliban, who rapidly took over without delay before the withdrawal was even complete.

Expand full comment
Lynne Morris's avatar

Wait, Trump said forget Bagram? I missed that.

Expand full comment
Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

Trump set the stage for all that followed.

Expand full comment
Lynne Morris's avatar

And Slow Joe was powerless? Again my impression is that Bagram was a very bad decision and Trump had nothing to do with that. Nor with abandoning all of that intact materielle.

Expand full comment
Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

I admit that was a major blunder to abandon Bagram. Scratch that, it was so monumental a blunder that there are literally memes about it, and Trump had nothing to do with that. Granted. But in the aggregate, Trump still set the stage overall.

Expand full comment
Laura's avatar

Seriously???? You blame Trump for Biden's incompetence? Biden didn't have to withdraw. He overturned how many executive orders immediately after inauguration, but Afghanistan withdrawal was a bridge too far? Biden was forced to withdraw by Trump? That is a ridiculous assertion.

Expand full comment
Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

Lest we forget, Trump made the deal with the Taliban before he left office. A deal which was presumed to be irreversible. Biden inherited that. In fact, Biden actually delayed the pullout by a few months after the originally agreed upon date. But of course Trump would rather memory hole all of that, for obvious reasons.

In any case, it was a war America lost before the war began. That said, there were many earlier times during which we could have withdrawn more deliberately and less disastrously, before the Taliban regained strength. Instead of just ghosting the Afghan government and people long ago, every single president from Bush through Trump kept on benching and breadcrumbing them for two decades. Then Biden slow-faded them after Trump set the slow fade in motion.

Thus ended a disastrous 20 year situationship writ large, albeit 19+ years too late.

(Mic drop)

Expand full comment
Jeff's avatar

Such original thinking - Blame Trump!

Expand full comment
Bruce Miller's avatar

Nation building is and always was a patently idiotic notion. We conducted a brilliant campaign in Afghanistan to oust the Taliban. Instead of leaving we spent a fortune in precious American blood and treasure. Bush was a fool.

Expand full comment
Madjack's avatar

Both тАЬexercisesтАЭ should have been six months. Iraq and Afghanistan. Then they should have been used as тАЬteaching momentsтАЭ for the rest of the rogues gallery.

Expand full comment
Bruce Miller's avatar

So true. Go in. Break their toys. And leave. If they act up again, wash, rinse, repeat. Nation building was for chumps. Bush was one of our worst presidents. in recent memory. His only saving grace was that he loved his country, even if his policies were to the contrary.

Expand full comment
Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

Neither one should have been done in the first place IMHO. Especially Iraq. And if Bush were smart, he could have gotten Bin Laden and many of his henchmen without forcing a full blown regime change via a full blown invasion.

Expand full comment
Mark A. McCall's avatar

You deployed to Afghanistan when?

Expand full comment
Rhymes With "Brass Seagull"'s avatar

BINGO. So true indeed. Nation building is a fool's errand, and Bush was clearly a fool.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Apr 25, 2023
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Lynne Morris's avatar

My suspicion is that the precipitous Afghan withdrawal was to free up resources for Ukraine.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Apr 25, 2023
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Lynne Morris's avatar

I agree.

Expand full comment