Who gives a shit who Prigozhin is and what his motives were/weren't. The biggest question is what the hell are we doing fighting a proxy war with Russia over one of the most corrupt countries in Europe that has no US interest whatsoever. There's a story for you. Oh......and save the "we're helping to save democracy in a sovereign nation"…
Who gives a shit who Prigozhin is and what his motives were/weren't. The biggest question is what the hell are we doing fighting a proxy war with Russia over one of the most corrupt countries in Europe that has no US interest whatsoever. There's a story for you. Oh......and save the "we're helping to save democracy in a sovereign nation"......that nonsense went south with the CIA backed coup in 2014.
I agree with your sentiment but want to point out that few commentators have to resort to cursing to express themselves. It's a bit pathetic when one does.
While I agree we shouldn’t put any boots on the ground, this proxy war is a good thing. It’s the most economical way to weaken russia without risking any american lives. Russia is already in demographic collapse. Over 700k russian men fled to avoid the draft. Now hundreds of thousands of russians are dying or wounded. At some point it will lead to regime change. If we at some point achieve friendly relations with a new regime that benefits us greatly against the true adversary- China. Without access to oil from Russia, China is easy to counter.
We give a shit because Russia has more nuclear weapons than we do by a generous number.
As long as that remains a salient factor on the world's stage, our foreign policy must take into account what is happening with and to Russian political and military.
Because if (and probably when) Putin gets the heave ho by Prigozhin's supporters in Putin's security apparatus, and is replaced by someone even nastier (a distinct possibility) - it doesn't matter if it's a DeSantis or a Trump or a Biden Administration going forward, we will have our hands full.
The first nonsense is that the political defenestration of Putin's lackey Yanukovych in 2014 was orchestrated by the CIA. Other than the typical and ongoing rhetorical and occasionally minor financial support for pro-democracy and anti-corruption NGOs, the US had absolutely nothing to do with the Maidan protests or the uprising that followed them. The Obama administration was so taken by surprise that they couldn't even manage to articulate a coherent message of support until several weeks into the protests.
As for the US interest in helping Ukraine defend itself from invasion by a foreign power, the reasons couldn't be clearer to anyone who's not a head-in-the-sand isolationist or a Russian sympathizer, though the farcical claims that Maidan was a CIA backed coup gives us some reason to suspect the later.
If there would be any traces of reason in the mind of the newly minted American isolationists, they would at least stop repeating one point they’ve picked up from Putin’s propaganda: what a corrupt country Ukraine is, while supposedly Russia is much better under the distinguished leadership of Putin. The latest sh…show in Russia should have shed light on that, if this would be about independent thinking instead of blind imitation of what you hear on your favorite cable show.
Corruption is in the eye of the beholder. What some, such as yourself, claim to be corruption in a foreign country is just "business as usual" in our own homeland. Is Ukraine more corrupt that Mother Russia? THAT is laughable on its face! The whole of Russian government is based on the kleptocracy of the, so called, "oligarchs" who divvied up the old Soviet state to enrich themselves, AND to garner favor and access to power by supporting a ruthless Putin. Your "corruption" charge is just a MAGA buzzword.
I actually can’t believe Bari put this crap out - You to polite Evan I don’t give a f..k about this story, between pride month, black history month and $200 billion spent on the Ukraine, I ask mr biden when is it America’s month or more like our year. I’m sick and tired of his bizarre policies, and am wondering how much longer Americans will endure this lunatic fringe.
I agree wholeheartedly with your biggest question. However, some of us do find foreign affairs interesting, unrelated to the pressing issues which we care about on a more practical level. I'm glad TFP is covering foreign news as well. My gripe is TFP is not big enough to have its own foreign reporters, but have to rely on MSM reports as a "What are we reading" piece, which essentially renders many parts of this article useless to me because I do no trust anything these media like NYT says. They've lost their credibility completely and cried wolves so many times, and hide so many things that I know in fact are happening and should be reported but they cover them up, that I will not take their words for it even if they are occasionally reporting facts. And I most certainly don't give a shit what their opinionators say.
As usual, your Father knew what he was talking about:
"The United States must concentrate only on American interests, and while the country ought to be friendly and open its commerce to all nations, it should avoid becoming involved in foreign wars." ~ George Washington's Farewell Address
Let's have a new Constitutional Amendment: "Congress shall not commit any resources of any kind to any military conflict without a Congressional declaration of war. Upon declaration there shall be held a lottery, and ten percent of Congress shall be inducted into the military, to serve in front-line units."
That should do it. Nothing like having a dog in the fight to make one think more carefully about slaughtering other people's children.
How many American soldiers are dying in Ukraine right now? Ignoring the Russian invasion and not helping Ukraine defend itself is more likely to result in American troops on the ground fighting Russians, as it encourages aggressive Russian revanchism and makes a future Russian attack on NATO allies Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland much more likely. Ukrainian soldiers are dying to defend their country, but in doing so are also defending the rest of Europe and the political West. The very, very least we can do while still maintaining any national self respect as the leader of the free world is to help provide them the weapons to defend themselves.
Your reasoning sounds suspiciously like the domino theory used to justify US intervention in VietNam so many decades ago. We were there to prevent the communist oppression of all southeast Asia! Maybe the world! And in the Ukraine's case, this has absolutely nothing to do with the bribes paid to the Biden family for the last ten years. I'm ashamed to even mention such an ignoble thought.
Ukraine and Russia had the outlines of a peace deal a year ago, and the West got in the way of that. We just need to stand down, give Ukraine security assurances provided they remain neutral. That's really all that Putin)Russia wants.
Oh, I see, to keep our self-respect we have to continue to fund the president of Ukraine who just suspended elections. He said there will be no elections until after the war. It's so wonderful to see democracy in action. I don't want to judge where your heart is, but your post is the same level of derangement, we hear from the Anne Applebaum's, Victoria Nuland, crazy warmongers like Lyndsy Graham and all the neocons that Joe Biden has surrounded himself with. It is this level of derangement that has convinced so many Americans to fund the unnecessary annihilation of an entire generation of Ukrainian men who are getting slaughtered on the front line. Does that give us self-respect? That doesn't make us leaders of the free world, it makes us bullies with no respect for human life. These are human beings. To even suggest that Americans should have to go and die to fulfill an insane neocon delusion about who should control an eastern province in eastern Ukraine is pure insanity.
I'm so sick of the farcical argument that Putin has imperialist goals for the countries on/near Russia's border, so if we meet his terms wrt Ukraine, he'll take that as a green light to invade those other countries. Meanwhile, LOGIC & REASON dictate that if those were his true goals, he would have absolutely made the attempt after becoming President in 2000.
What logic and reason, exactly? Russia was far too weak in 2000, and could barely suppress the rebellions in the Caucuses. Back then, Putin was still floating the idea that Russia could join NATO, though without meeting any of economic and military reforms necessary to be considered.
What, exactly, do you think is to be gained by "meeting Putin's terms" with regard to Ukraine? Other than validating the Russian invasion, wasting the sacrifices of the tens of thousands killed, encouraging further invasions and depredations of international law by authoritarians other than Russia, especially China?
I have one more question: What has Ukraine done, in your logical and reasoning opinion, to deserve invasion, occupation and destruction from its neighbor? Why is Ukraine so undeserving of US and Western support?
"What, exactly, do you think is to be gained by "meeting Putin's terms" with regard to Ukraine?" -- Simple. Putin ends the war. And all those "sacrifices" you mention, could've been prevented if we had simply met his terms from the START.
As to your last question, do you know what a proxy war is?
"We" = the U.S., because this is a proxy war between the US and Russia using Ukraine as the battlefield and Ukraine's military as the cannon fodder.
I 100% agree the U.S. should not be involved in this at all, but as long as the MIC wants to continue its profiteering, we will continue our military adventurism.
"What, exactly, do you think is to be gained by "meeting Putin's terms" with regard to Ukraine?"
Other than The end of the war, the saving of countless lives in Ukraine and Russia (btw: Ukrainians and Russians are THE SAME F'NG PEOPLE!!!), the return of stability to energy markets and food distribution in Africa and around the world, ending the total destruction of the Ukrainian state, return of over 6 million refugees from Western Europe?... that is what is to be gained!
And what, pray tell, are Putin's terms? Have you even bothered to ask? No, of course not...because...WAR WAR WAR!!
Ukrainians and Russians are the same people? 🤦🏻♀️ Canadians and Americans are the same people, so why doesn’t Canada just invade and try to annex New England?
Ukrainians and Russians are not the same people - that’s a Russian imperialist position, and one of the reasons Putin’s apologists give for the invasion. I dare you to say this to any Ukrainian.
Yeah, I know there was a war, but that was a long time ago. It wasn’t fought between US and Canada, hence the name of the war. 🤦🏻♀️ I’d like you to imagine Canada annexing New England right now.
“Ukrainians and Russians are not the same people - that’s a Russian imperialist position”
Well…that can be your little secret then. 😂
Just FYI, The capital city of Russia for over 600 years was Kiev. Over 80% of the population of Ukraine identify as Russian. The only “imperialism” going on here is the USA trying to project its power over the entire world and an obviously Russian state territorial dispute.
“I dare you to say this to any Ukrainian.”
I work with Russians and Ukrainians every single day. They both blame Biden for this war and all the deaths that are caused by it.
I accept your dare and raise you one of my own: “How about we let Ukrainians “vote” on whether they wish to be part of Russia or join NATO instead?? Oh yeah, that’s right, don’t want any of that “pesky” democracy stuff there, do you? Especially now that the American installed puppet Zelensky just had his political opponents arrested and suspended all elections until the war is over!
“Yeah, I know there was a war, but that was a long time ago. I’d like you to imagine Canada annexing New England right now.”
WTF?? You have to be F’ng kidding me with this sh-t, right?? OK, feeding time is over, enough already, I have to go to work, and it’s probably your nap time.
😂😂😂 I am Russian. I speak Russian. I read Russian. I read telegram channels in Russian. I speak to friends both in Russia and Ukraine. Don’t try to “teach” me any of your bullshit. I know better than you. Ukrainians wanted to be part of Europe - that’s what the maidan was about, but you’re too full of your inflated American ego to consider that you might not know and understand something about a foreign country as well as the people from that region.
Nato expansion was an unnecessary provocative move by the West. We would NEVER tolerate that level of aggression on our borders.
"Why is Ukraine underserving of Western support?" Because try as you and the neocons insist it is not nor ever was in the national interest of the US. Do you truly believe the Biden administration cares about the Ukrainians that are getting slaughtered on the front lines? These are human beings. They don't deserve to die to fulfil the deranged fantasies of western neocons. The Ukranian president just suspended elections, he already banned opposition political parties banned religious groups and locked up an American journalist. Is that level of authoritarianism something Americans should be funding?
The Ukrainians are human beings, the Russians are human beings, we are all human beings. The Ukraine started out as the poorest country in nominal Europe, and will probably end the war as the most desolate and underpopulated one. I can't imagine many refugees will return to a war torn country. The important things to remember are are, one, the Ukraine's borders are sacrosanct, and, two, Putin must be humiliated, no matter the cost to Ukrainians.
"Why is Ukraine so undeserving of US and Western support?"
Its not a question of "deserving"...It is about our national interests and risk vs reward calculations when dealing with the country that has the world's largest nuclear stockpile! And please, for the love of God, stop comparing every leader you want to go to war against Hitler!! Putin is not Hitler...not even close..Do they even teach history anymore? My God, this is so infuriating! Or do you mean to tell me the old canard that we are somehow "defending democracy"... like in 1961 when we invaded Cuba? How was the Bay of Pigs invasion by Kennedy any different than this "special military operation" by Russia in Ukraine? Russia did the risk vs reward calcs back then, and even Krushchev decided to sit it out.
We should do the same but our warmongering leaders and cheerleaders (like you) never let us have a moments peace. Its always war war war with you people!...and jingoistic cheerleaders on both sides...So in just my lifetime Ive dealt with this in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Granada, Panama, El Salvador, Syria, Libya, Croatia, Iraq (twice!), Afghanistan, and now Ukraine ... I'm so f'ng sick of this argument! Every time we get weaker and further away from our mission of being for liberty, democracy, and just "good" neighbors...We are so stupid and we never learn...This is no different.
Like in many cases, we have no idea how many US troops are in the Ukraine...That's something our "most transparent administration in history" will ever let to become public knowledge.
The safe bet is that the number is more than just a few.
Since the UN was founded in 1948, few nations have brought matters before the UN prior to a fight being started. And, even then, the parties just started fighting anyway.
The UN is an expensive joke operating out of a decaying building that shouts the 1950s over the East River.
Actually the Charter for the U.N. was written and ratified in San Francisco on 26 June, 1945.. This formally established the United Nations. It entered into force on 24 October, 1945 after all five members of the Security Council agreed to it.
It has served to keep the members of the Security Council from fighting with each other, which in the past, was a great accomplishment. Yes it is not what it was under Dag Hammarskjold, but murdering a General Secretary might wind up with the future one's being less ambitious for peace.
That is a reasonable follow up to an execution of one well respected but perhaps somewhat over dedicated to peace individual.
A talking shop to air grievances and avoid creating more is not a bad institution even if it achieves little.
OMG you made me spit out my coffee with an image of Diane Feinstein being wheeled into Kyiv with the explosions of war all around and asking "is it time to vote yet?"
OMG what a brilliant post. It is so easy to kill other people’s children feel desperate sometimes for the mothers and fathers of our nation. It’s just not right to do this.
Remember being told our heating bills would go up all in the name of supporting Ukraine? And gasoline? Meanwhile, it's so dangerous over there Zelensky can do Zoomies for Hollywood award shows and have afternoon tea with Pelosi and McConnell when they pop in.
Who gives a shit who Prigozhin is and what his motives were/weren't. The biggest question is what the hell are we doing fighting a proxy war with Russia over one of the most corrupt countries in Europe that has no US interest whatsoever. There's a story for you. Oh......and save the "we're helping to save democracy in a sovereign nation"......that nonsense went south with the CIA backed coup in 2014.
I agree with your sentiment but want to point out that few commentators have to resort to cursing to express themselves. It's a bit pathetic when one does.
While I agree we shouldn’t put any boots on the ground, this proxy war is a good thing. It’s the most economical way to weaken russia without risking any american lives. Russia is already in demographic collapse. Over 700k russian men fled to avoid the draft. Now hundreds of thousands of russians are dying or wounded. At some point it will lead to regime change. If we at some point achieve friendly relations with a new regime that benefits us greatly against the true adversary- China. Without access to oil from Russia, China is easy to counter.
Also helping to save democracy in a country that just announced they wouldn't be having elections. Zelensky is a dictator.
Exactly!
We give a shit because Russia has more nuclear weapons than we do by a generous number.
As long as that remains a salient factor on the world's stage, our foreign policy must take into account what is happening with and to Russian political and military.
We should give a shit, Evans. That's who.
Because if (and probably when) Putin gets the heave ho by Prigozhin's supporters in Putin's security apparatus, and is replaced by someone even nastier (a distinct possibility) - it doesn't matter if it's a DeSantis or a Trump or a Biden Administration going forward, we will have our hands full.
The first nonsense is that the political defenestration of Putin's lackey Yanukovych in 2014 was orchestrated by the CIA. Other than the typical and ongoing rhetorical and occasionally minor financial support for pro-democracy and anti-corruption NGOs, the US had absolutely nothing to do with the Maidan protests or the uprising that followed them. The Obama administration was so taken by surprise that they couldn't even manage to articulate a coherent message of support until several weeks into the protests.
As for the US interest in helping Ukraine defend itself from invasion by a foreign power, the reasons couldn't be clearer to anyone who's not a head-in-the-sand isolationist or a Russian sympathizer, though the farcical claims that Maidan was a CIA backed coup gives us some reason to suspect the later.
If there would be any traces of reason in the mind of the newly minted American isolationists, they would at least stop repeating one point they’ve picked up from Putin’s propaganda: what a corrupt country Ukraine is, while supposedly Russia is much better under the distinguished leadership of Putin. The latest sh…show in Russia should have shed light on that, if this would be about independent thinking instead of blind imitation of what you hear on your favorite cable show.
Corruption is in the eye of the beholder. What some, such as yourself, claim to be corruption in a foreign country is just "business as usual" in our own homeland. Is Ukraine more corrupt that Mother Russia? THAT is laughable on its face! The whole of Russian government is based on the kleptocracy of the, so called, "oligarchs" who divvied up the old Soviet state to enrich themselves, AND to garner favor and access to power by supporting a ruthless Putin. Your "corruption" charge is just a MAGA buzzword.
I actually can’t believe Bari put this crap out - You to polite Evan I don’t give a f..k about this story, between pride month, black history month and $200 billion spent on the Ukraine, I ask mr biden when is it America’s month or more like our year. I’m sick and tired of his bizarre policies, and am wondering how much longer Americans will endure this lunatic fringe.
I agree wholeheartedly with your biggest question. However, some of us do find foreign affairs interesting, unrelated to the pressing issues which we care about on a more practical level. I'm glad TFP is covering foreign news as well. My gripe is TFP is not big enough to have its own foreign reporters, but have to rely on MSM reports as a "What are we reading" piece, which essentially renders many parts of this article useless to me because I do no trust anything these media like NYT says. They've lost their credibility completely and cried wolves so many times, and hide so many things that I know in fact are happening and should be reported but they cover them up, that I will not take their words for it even if they are occasionally reporting facts. And I most certainly don't give a shit what their opinionators say.
Why are we fighting this proxy war?
Because Ukraine & Burisma is holding Biden hostage for hush money not to flip on Hunter and disclose the content and source of the 17 audio tapes.
But... if Russia takes over Ukraine, how will the Democratic party launder their money?
Brilliant question. JE is dead now, who is going to do their dirty work.
As usual, your Father knew what he was talking about:
"The United States must concentrate only on American interests, and while the country ought to be friendly and open its commerce to all nations, it should avoid becoming involved in foreign wars." ~ George Washington's Farewell Address
Let's have a new Constitutional Amendment: "Congress shall not commit any resources of any kind to any military conflict without a Congressional declaration of war. Upon declaration there shall be held a lottery, and ten percent of Congress shall be inducted into the military, to serve in front-line units."
That should do it. Nothing like having a dog in the fight to make one think more carefully about slaughtering other people's children.
In Rome, consuls and senators fought and often died in battle. Strangely (for us), that did not make Rome any less inclined to wage war.
Glory, honor, and family reputation were intrinsic values.
How many American soldiers are dying in Ukraine right now? Ignoring the Russian invasion and not helping Ukraine defend itself is more likely to result in American troops on the ground fighting Russians, as it encourages aggressive Russian revanchism and makes a future Russian attack on NATO allies Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland much more likely. Ukrainian soldiers are dying to defend their country, but in doing so are also defending the rest of Europe and the political West. The very, very least we can do while still maintaining any national self respect as the leader of the free world is to help provide them the weapons to defend themselves.
The US has zero strategic interest in Ukraine. We are the ultimate fools who have hitched our wagon to a profoundly corrupt and losing endeavor.
Your reasoning sounds suspiciously like the domino theory used to justify US intervention in VietNam so many decades ago. We were there to prevent the communist oppression of all southeast Asia! Maybe the world! And in the Ukraine's case, this has absolutely nothing to do with the bribes paid to the Biden family for the last ten years. I'm ashamed to even mention such an ignoble thought.
Clarity is beautiful thanks
Ukraine and Russia had the outlines of a peace deal a year ago, and the West got in the way of that. We just need to stand down, give Ukraine security assurances provided they remain neutral. That's really all that Putin)Russia wants.
Oh, I see, to keep our self-respect we have to continue to fund the president of Ukraine who just suspended elections. He said there will be no elections until after the war. It's so wonderful to see democracy in action. I don't want to judge where your heart is, but your post is the same level of derangement, we hear from the Anne Applebaum's, Victoria Nuland, crazy warmongers like Lyndsy Graham and all the neocons that Joe Biden has surrounded himself with. It is this level of derangement that has convinced so many Americans to fund the unnecessary annihilation of an entire generation of Ukrainian men who are getting slaughtered on the front line. Does that give us self-respect? That doesn't make us leaders of the free world, it makes us bullies with no respect for human life. These are human beings. To even suggest that Americans should have to go and die to fulfill an insane neocon delusion about who should control an eastern province in eastern Ukraine is pure insanity.
I'm so sick of the farcical argument that Putin has imperialist goals for the countries on/near Russia's border, so if we meet his terms wrt Ukraine, he'll take that as a green light to invade those other countries. Meanwhile, LOGIC & REASON dictate that if those were his true goals, he would have absolutely made the attempt after becoming President in 2000.
What logic and reason, exactly? Russia was far too weak in 2000, and could barely suppress the rebellions in the Caucuses. Back then, Putin was still floating the idea that Russia could join NATO, though without meeting any of economic and military reforms necessary to be considered.
What, exactly, do you think is to be gained by "meeting Putin's terms" with regard to Ukraine? Other than validating the Russian invasion, wasting the sacrifices of the tens of thousands killed, encouraging further invasions and depredations of international law by authoritarians other than Russia, especially China?
I have one more question: What has Ukraine done, in your logical and reasoning opinion, to deserve invasion, occupation and destruction from its neighbor? Why is Ukraine so undeserving of US and Western support?
"What, exactly, do you think is to be gained by "meeting Putin's terms" with regard to Ukraine?" -- Simple. Putin ends the war. And all those "sacrifices" you mention, could've been prevented if we had simply met his terms from the START.
As to your last question, do you know what a proxy war is?
Who's we? Let the Ukrainians work out what who they want to control their Eastern province.
"We" = the U.S., because this is a proxy war between the US and Russia using Ukraine as the battlefield and Ukraine's military as the cannon fodder.
I 100% agree the U.S. should not be involved in this at all, but as long as the MIC wants to continue its profiteering, we will continue our military adventurism.
"What, exactly, do you think is to be gained by "meeting Putin's terms" with regard to Ukraine?"
Other than The end of the war, the saving of countless lives in Ukraine and Russia (btw: Ukrainians and Russians are THE SAME F'NG PEOPLE!!!), the return of stability to energy markets and food distribution in Africa and around the world, ending the total destruction of the Ukrainian state, return of over 6 million refugees from Western Europe?... that is what is to be gained!
And what, pray tell, are Putin's terms? Have you even bothered to ask? No, of course not...because...WAR WAR WAR!!
Ukrainians and Russians are the same people? 🤦🏻♀️ Canadians and Americans are the same people, so why doesn’t Canada just invade and try to annex New England?
We are NOTHING like the Canadians. We believe in free speech not compelled speech supported by your first female PM Justina .
“Ukrainians and Russians are the same people?“
Yes.
“why doesn’t Canada just invade and try to annex New England?“
They did. It was known as The French and Indian War back in mid 18th century. They hide information like that in things called “books”.
Ukrainians and Russians are not the same people - that’s a Russian imperialist position, and one of the reasons Putin’s apologists give for the invasion. I dare you to say this to any Ukrainian.
Yeah, I know there was a war, but that was a long time ago. It wasn’t fought between US and Canada, hence the name of the war. 🤦🏻♀️ I’d like you to imagine Canada annexing New England right now.
“Ukrainians and Russians are not the same people - that’s a Russian imperialist position”
Well…that can be your little secret then. 😂
Just FYI, The capital city of Russia for over 600 years was Kiev. Over 80% of the population of Ukraine identify as Russian. The only “imperialism” going on here is the USA trying to project its power over the entire world and an obviously Russian state territorial dispute.
“I dare you to say this to any Ukrainian.”
I work with Russians and Ukrainians every single day. They both blame Biden for this war and all the deaths that are caused by it.
I accept your dare and raise you one of my own: “How about we let Ukrainians “vote” on whether they wish to be part of Russia or join NATO instead?? Oh yeah, that’s right, don’t want any of that “pesky” democracy stuff there, do you? Especially now that the American installed puppet Zelensky just had his political opponents arrested and suspended all elections until the war is over!
“Yeah, I know there was a war, but that was a long time ago. I’d like you to imagine Canada annexing New England right now.”
WTF?? You have to be F’ng kidding me with this sh-t, right?? OK, feeding time is over, enough already, I have to go to work, and it’s probably your nap time.
😂😂😂 I am Russian. I speak Russian. I read Russian. I read telegram channels in Russian. I speak to friends both in Russia and Ukraine. Don’t try to “teach” me any of your bullshit. I know better than you. Ukrainians wanted to be part of Europe - that’s what the maidan was about, but you’re too full of your inflated American ego to consider that you might not know and understand something about a foreign country as well as the people from that region.
Nato expansion was an unnecessary provocative move by the West. We would NEVER tolerate that level of aggression on our borders.
"Why is Ukraine underserving of Western support?" Because try as you and the neocons insist it is not nor ever was in the national interest of the US. Do you truly believe the Biden administration cares about the Ukrainians that are getting slaughtered on the front lines? These are human beings. They don't deserve to die to fulfil the deranged fantasies of western neocons. The Ukranian president just suspended elections, he already banned opposition political parties banned religious groups and locked up an American journalist. Is that level of authoritarianism something Americans should be funding?
The Ukrainians are human beings, the Russians are human beings, we are all human beings. The Ukraine started out as the poorest country in nominal Europe, and will probably end the war as the most desolate and underpopulated one. I can't imagine many refugees will return to a war torn country. The important things to remember are are, one, the Ukraine's borders are sacrosanct, and, two, Putin must be humiliated, no matter the cost to Ukrainians.
"Why is Ukraine so undeserving of US and Western support?"
Its not a question of "deserving"...It is about our national interests and risk vs reward calculations when dealing with the country that has the world's largest nuclear stockpile! And please, for the love of God, stop comparing every leader you want to go to war against Hitler!! Putin is not Hitler...not even close..Do they even teach history anymore? My God, this is so infuriating! Or do you mean to tell me the old canard that we are somehow "defending democracy"... like in 1961 when we invaded Cuba? How was the Bay of Pigs invasion by Kennedy any different than this "special military operation" by Russia in Ukraine? Russia did the risk vs reward calcs back then, and even Krushchev decided to sit it out.
We should do the same but our warmongering leaders and cheerleaders (like you) never let us have a moments peace. Its always war war war with you people!...and jingoistic cheerleaders on both sides...So in just my lifetime Ive dealt with this in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Granada, Panama, El Salvador, Syria, Libya, Croatia, Iraq (twice!), Afghanistan, and now Ukraine ... I'm so f'ng sick of this argument! Every time we get weaker and further away from our mission of being for liberty, democracy, and just "good" neighbors...We are so stupid and we never learn...This is no different.
AMEN!
Like in many cases, we have no idea how many US troops are in the Ukraine...That's something our "most transparent administration in history" will ever let to become public knowledge.
The safe bet is that the number is more than just a few.
The U.N. and its rules and charter make declaring war a problem now, which it wasn't before 1945.
Since the UN was founded in 1948, few nations have brought matters before the UN prior to a fight being started. And, even then, the parties just started fighting anyway.
The UN is an expensive joke operating out of a decaying building that shouts the 1950s over the East River.
Actually the Charter for the U.N. was written and ratified in San Francisco on 26 June, 1945.. This formally established the United Nations. It entered into force on 24 October, 1945 after all five members of the Security Council agreed to it.
It has served to keep the members of the Security Council from fighting with each other, which in the past, was a great accomplishment. Yes it is not what it was under Dag Hammarskjold, but murdering a General Secretary might wind up with the future one's being less ambitious for peace.
That is a reasonable follow up to an execution of one well respected but perhaps somewhat over dedicated to peace individual.
A talking shop to air grievances and avoid creating more is not a bad institution even if it achieves little.
My error. Conflated with the vote on Israel as an independent country.
No problem, once I get going on a comment, things just keep on going.
A helpful reply reminds me of my own mistakes, all to often, thank you for your reply.
OMG you made me spit out my coffee with an image of Diane Feinstein being wheeled into Kyiv with the explosions of war all around and asking "is it time to vote yet?"
She'd probably think she"s been taken to Disney Land in Orlando
OMG what a brilliant post. It is so easy to kill other people’s children feel desperate sometimes for the mothers and fathers of our nation. It’s just not right to do this.
Remember being told our heating bills would go up all in the name of supporting Ukraine? And gasoline? Meanwhile, it's so dangerous over there Zelensky can do Zoomies for Hollywood award shows and have afternoon tea with Pelosi and McConnell when they pop in.
I guess it depends where you are in Ukraine, and if it happens to be the wrong place at the wrong time:
https://twitter.com/KonstantinTeam/status/1673957061636366337
Its polling well for Biden (or was)