French and the rest act like the traditional guard rails that defined the rules of US politics still exist. After using fabricated evidence to spy on the Trump campaign and then illegal leak the info to sabotage an elected president, why precisely should we trust the current powers that be.
French and the rest act like the traditional guard rails that defined the rules of US politics still exist. After using fabricated evidence to spy on the Trump campaign and then illegal leak the info to sabotage an elected president, why precisely should we trust the current powers that be.
I would have agreed 100% with David French on this... in 2016. Then I watched the FBI and the DOJ engage in a 4 year conspiracy to undermine first the opposing candidate and then the duly elected President of the United States. This is not conjecture. FBI attorneys have pled guilty to falsifying FISA court applications. The FBI has acknowledged in Congressional testimony that they knew Russiagate was a red herring almost before Trump was inaugurated but pushed it anyway. Trump said they were out to destroy him, and all evidence is that (at least on that one issue) he was correct.
If your opponent is "wrong", you will seek to educate and convince him. But if your opponent isn't just wrong but is evil, evil cannot be convinced and must be destroyed. So how can institutions controlled by people who have demonstrated in both word and deed that they truly believe Trump (and all his voters) to be evil, possibly be trusted to deal fairly with him? Or with us? Any of us? Because once you've demolished the guardrails to fight evil once... (Sir Thomas More's injunction about the laws of Britain comes to mind.)
You don't have to believe Donald Trump rantings to believe this to be a political hit job.
I posted this above but worth repeating based on your comment:
On Megyn Kelly's podcast interview with Glenn Beck the other day, in the first five minutes she listed TWO DOZEN lawsuits or investigations against Trump or the Trump Organization. It's insane.
Those may be technically legitimate, in the sense that Donald Trump may well have run corrupt businesses (kickbacks, union busting, tax dodging, bribery, etc...). He's a NYC real estate developer... that by itself implies a certain amount of corruption..
I agree with you the investigations wouldn't be going on if he wasn't an ex-President though.
It's everything from his niece who is suing him for supposedly cutting her out of an inheritance to tenants suing over rent increases because of new appliances being installed to a sexual harassment suit to needing to present his tax returns to two impeachment proceedings (which we know how they ended) to Eric Swalwell suing him over J6 to protesters in front of Trump tower suing him because they believe his security manhandled them or some such thing to the Georgia Election board and on and on and on and on.
Yes, as an NYC real estate mogul, he's always lawsuit prone, but much of this is utter nonsense.
I would add, their beliefs are that they are saving the planet and ending oppression, which also provides great justification to crushing people you oppose.
Sandy Berger was a national security advisor to the immoral Bill Clinton and John Kerry, stole classified documents from the National Archives and destroyed the documents. He plead guilty, didn't spend a day in jail and got a slap on the wrist fine.
Hillary Clinton was never charged for mishandling classified documents and never served a day in jail.
In the early 1980s I had a secret security clearance. If I had done a tenth of what Berger and Hillary did, I would still be in prison.
Oh, one more thing. You can bet your bottom dollar, all of us who participate on this BBS are in a government archive and they are keeping their eye on us. If the communist woke fanatics keep winning elections, we will be in deep trouble.
Fanatics don't tolerate any dissent and it is never good for those who do, think Chinese prisons/death camps for dissenters.
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
I totally agree. Unfortunately the DOJ has so little credibility that they are barely above the faith in Congress.
To be clear I liked many of Trump's policies but didn't really care for the individual. Too big of an ego. But look now, we have a marshmallow.
What is missing is why after the Russian investigation that was nothing and the ineffective Jan 6 clown show that produces nothing useful, why the raid?
He has been investigated probably more than any American has ever been.
All the corrupt and political controlled DOJ does is raise more concerns about the deep state. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. Yet they wonder why the distrust and conspiracy theories? The leadership is bankrupt of morals and interests other than self interest.
We don't need the current or past administrations again in 2024. How about some younger so called talent and some real interest in making the average person's life and the country better? Trouble is that money talks and controls the political parties.
On Megyn Kelly's podcast interview with Glenn Beck the other day, in the first five minutes she listed TWO DOZEN lawsuits or investigations against Trump or the Trump Organization. It's insane.
What if the whole point of the raid was to create a stronger bond between Trump and voters? That sounds crazy, but all the news lately has been how the democrats want Trump to be the nominee because heтАЩd be so easy to defeat. If voters feel heтАЩs being abused, then they are more likely to vote for him instead of, say, DeSantis. As an added bonus, the raid pumped up all the foaming resistance, which is good for democratic turnout in this current election.
IтАЩd have to believe that the DOJ and FBI were completely political arms of the party in that situation. It isnтАЩt hard to come to that conclusion.
I agree with you. We need to vote younger people into leadership.
Pat, I had the same thought but don't want to believe it. Would have written it off as a nutter theory as recently as 2018. Now I'm not so sure.
The way I see it, there are only 3 possibilities for Merrick Garland here:
1) The DOJ is such an ideological echo chamber that Garland honestly didn't know how a raid on the former President, current party kingmaker, and likely future candidate would be perceived by at least 30% of the country.
2) Garland knew but didn't give a hoot, since Trump is Hitler.
3) The Dems think Trump is the best candidate to run against and Garland made a large public raid specifically to rally the GOP back to Trump and away from DeSantis.
Attributed to the DOJ and FBI, I'm not sure which quality would scare me least: incompetence, blind hatred, or political calculation.
3 could be true if they know for sure Biden isn't going to run again. I don't believe for a second the Justice Dept. would not run this by the President first. He probably isn't going to run again or he would have stopped this in my opinion.
I donтАЩt think itтАЩs 2 or 3. ThatтАЩs a long game play and the urgency of now says it has to be something that will affect this election, in three months. So, they are trying to incite an event that will discredit republicans and make it harder for voters to vote for the Republican Party this election. They would want Trump, in that case, to say something that they can use to say he caused it, whatever it is they have planned, already.
You can already see the narrative forming. All the pundits are saying the FBI and DOJ are being threatened, as if there was no predicate for the anger on the right.
Wow. you're even further down the rabbit hole than I am. :-) And the scary thing is that it doesn't sound crazy. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I'm sticking my head in the sand and going for incompetence. It's the least scary of the options, and let's face it, incompetence in government bureaucracies is par for the course.
This is very possible, but I'd be amazed if they were so stupid as to try this again. The Clinton campaign did the same exact thing - elevated Trump above his Republican primary opponents in 2016, thinking he'd be more easily defeated in a general election - and it backfired enormously. Of course, they're already doing pretty much the same gambit in other elections right now.
Sorry. I couldnтАЩt get the link to work. I only got a blank page. I use Bravo.
LetтАЩs take a step back. Does this have more to do with the current election than a future election? Why would they want to rile up republicans? Do they already have something like a Witmer plot arranged?
All I know is no one will dissuade me from voting in November. No matter what happens to Trump, I will vote. ItтАЩs the only voice I have. We have to get a Republican Congress first, then a Republican President and he has to be willing to fire everyone on day one.
Trump wavered. ThatтАЩs on him. He didnтАЩt use the power of his office and didnтАЩt realize the trap his ego rally was. He worked in the swamp for four years and didnтАЩt guess that they would plot to use his rally against him? He was blind. IтАЩd never vote for him again. Though he makes a nice foil for DeSantis to prepare for 2024 without 100% of the negativity focused on him. ThatтАЩs all Trump is good for right now, for me.
No worries. I think its probably Bravo. What the F.B.I. just did requires extraordinary institutional trust and yet they have zero credibility among the vast majority of independents and Republicans. Either the raid is pre-textual and they have something like the Whitmer plot cooked up, or they just made yet another all-time terrible political moves.
I guess we will have to wait for the trial to see it on display. I hate even thinking that. IтАЩve become so jaded over the last several years. ItтАЩs a shame.
The first President I voted for was Jimmy Carter, whose calling card was as a DC outsider who could clean up and toss out the garbage. Look what happened to him (I remember the Boston Globe headline, "More Mush From The Wimp", after his declaration of inflation as the moral equivalent of war).
Reagan? An outsider who took on DC and the existing world order. Toppled the USSR, but look at what the DC elites constantly tried to do to him.
Bush 1 was an insider, but primarily elected as Reagan's third term.
Clinton? The ultimate insider who fooled everybody into thinking he was a DC outsider. I really had the most hope for the Rhodes scholar/governor - did a lot but Did Not Have Sexual Relations With That Woman and wound up exposed as a typical member of The Mendacious Order. Very sad.
Bush 2? No idea what happened there.
Obama? The first Black outsider.
Trump? "Ultimate Outsider"
Sorry to ramble but my point is - almost every single president in the last 42 years has been elected as a DC outsider with a mandate to clean up and toss the garbage, and the establishment (including and abetted by the Media) have resisted with every fiber of its being.
The Establishment is too busy trying to be our leader rather than our representative.
French and the rest act like the traditional guard rails that defined the rules of US politics still exist. After using fabricated evidence to spy on the Trump campaign and then illegal leak the info to sabotage an elected president, why precisely should we trust the current powers that be.
I would have agreed 100% with David French on this... in 2016. Then I watched the FBI and the DOJ engage in a 4 year conspiracy to undermine first the opposing candidate and then the duly elected President of the United States. This is not conjecture. FBI attorneys have pled guilty to falsifying FISA court applications. The FBI has acknowledged in Congressional testimony that they knew Russiagate was a red herring almost before Trump was inaugurated but pushed it anyway. Trump said they were out to destroy him, and all evidence is that (at least on that one issue) he was correct.
If your opponent is "wrong", you will seek to educate and convince him. But if your opponent isn't just wrong but is evil, evil cannot be convinced and must be destroyed. So how can institutions controlled by people who have demonstrated in both word and deed that they truly believe Trump (and all his voters) to be evil, possibly be trusted to deal fairly with him? Or with us? Any of us? Because once you've demolished the guardrails to fight evil once... (Sir Thomas More's injunction about the laws of Britain comes to mind.)
You don't have to believe Donald Trump rantings to believe this to be a political hit job.
I posted this above but worth repeating based on your comment:
On Megyn Kelly's podcast interview with Glenn Beck the other day, in the first five minutes she listed TWO DOZEN lawsuits or investigations against Trump or the Trump Organization. It's insane.
Those may be technically legitimate, in the sense that Donald Trump may well have run corrupt businesses (kickbacks, union busting, tax dodging, bribery, etc...). He's a NYC real estate developer... that by itself implies a certain amount of corruption..
I agree with you the investigations wouldn't be going on if he wasn't an ex-President though.
It's everything from his niece who is suing him for supposedly cutting her out of an inheritance to tenants suing over rent increases because of new appliances being installed to a sexual harassment suit to needing to present his tax returns to two impeachment proceedings (which we know how they ended) to Eric Swalwell suing him over J6 to protesters in front of Trump tower suing him because they believe his security manhandled them or some such thing to the Georgia Election board and on and on and on and on.
Yes, as an NYC real estate mogul, he's always lawsuit prone, but much of this is utter nonsense.
I would add, their beliefs are that they are saving the planet and ending oppression, which also provides great justification to crushing people you oppose.
Per the wise George Carlin:
"The planet is fine. The *people* are fucked."
Sandy Berger was a national security advisor to the immoral Bill Clinton and John Kerry, stole classified documents from the National Archives and destroyed the documents. He plead guilty, didn't spend a day in jail and got a slap on the wrist fine.
Hillary Clinton was never charged for mishandling classified documents and never served a day in jail.
In the early 1980s I had a secret security clearance. If I had done a tenth of what Berger and Hillary did, I would still be in prison.
Oh, and one more thing. This IS NOT about classified docs. It is seeking info on Jan 6.
So this article is incorrect?
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/fbi-agents-took-around-12-105054712.html
I have no idea on your link. My point was that classified docs are a mere ruse to get into Trump's house and look for other things.
You may be right. I wouldn't put anything past a Democrat led government.
Oh, one more thing. You can bet your bottom dollar, all of us who participate on this BBS are in a government archive and they are keeping their eye on us. If the communist woke fanatics keep winning elections, we will be in deep trouble.
Fanatics don't tolerate any dissent and it is never good for those who do, think Chinese prisons/death camps for dissenters.
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
Bring it. Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Far better for them if we are cowed into silence.
I totally agree. Unfortunately the DOJ has so little credibility that they are barely above the faith in Congress.
To be clear I liked many of Trump's policies but didn't really care for the individual. Too big of an ego. But look now, we have a marshmallow.
What is missing is why after the Russian investigation that was nothing and the ineffective Jan 6 clown show that produces nothing useful, why the raid?
He has been investigated probably more than any American has ever been.
All the corrupt and political controlled DOJ does is raise more concerns about the deep state. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. Yet they wonder why the distrust and conspiracy theories? The leadership is bankrupt of morals and interests other than self interest.
We don't need the current or past administrations again in 2024. How about some younger so called talent and some real interest in making the average person's life and the country better? Trouble is that money talks and controls the political parties.
On Megyn Kelly's podcast interview with Glenn Beck the other day, in the first five minutes she listed TWO DOZEN lawsuits or investigations against Trump or the Trump Organization. It's insane.
What if the whole point of the raid was to create a stronger bond between Trump and voters? That sounds crazy, but all the news lately has been how the democrats want Trump to be the nominee because heтАЩd be so easy to defeat. If voters feel heтАЩs being abused, then they are more likely to vote for him instead of, say, DeSantis. As an added bonus, the raid pumped up all the foaming resistance, which is good for democratic turnout in this current election.
IтАЩd have to believe that the DOJ and FBI were completely political arms of the party in that situation. It isnтАЩt hard to come to that conclusion.
I agree with you. We need to vote younger people into leadership.
Pat, I had the same thought but don't want to believe it. Would have written it off as a nutter theory as recently as 2018. Now I'm not so sure.
The way I see it, there are only 3 possibilities for Merrick Garland here:
1) The DOJ is such an ideological echo chamber that Garland honestly didn't know how a raid on the former President, current party kingmaker, and likely future candidate would be perceived by at least 30% of the country.
2) Garland knew but didn't give a hoot, since Trump is Hitler.
3) The Dems think Trump is the best candidate to run against and Garland made a large public raid specifically to rally the GOP back to Trump and away from DeSantis.
Attributed to the DOJ and FBI, I'm not sure which quality would scare me least: incompetence, blind hatred, or political calculation.
3 could be true if they know for sure Biden isn't going to run again. I don't believe for a second the Justice Dept. would not run this by the President first. He probably isn't going to run again or he would have stopped this in my opinion.
I donтАЩt think itтАЩs 2 or 3. ThatтАЩs a long game play and the urgency of now says it has to be something that will affect this election, in three months. So, they are trying to incite an event that will discredit republicans and make it harder for voters to vote for the Republican Party this election. They would want Trump, in that case, to say something that they can use to say he caused it, whatever it is they have planned, already.
You can already see the narrative forming. All the pundits are saying the FBI and DOJ are being threatened, as if there was no predicate for the anger on the right.
Wow. you're even further down the rabbit hole than I am. :-) And the scary thing is that it doesn't sound crazy. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I'm sticking my head in the sand and going for incompetence. It's the least scary of the options, and let's face it, incompetence in government bureaucracies is par for the course.
This is very possible, but I'd be amazed if they were so stupid as to try this again. The Clinton campaign did the same exact thing - elevated Trump above his Republican primary opponents in 2016, thinking he'd be more easily defeated in a general election - and it backfired enormously. Of course, they're already doing pretty much the same gambit in other elections right now.
https://euphoricrecall.substack.com/p/reductio-ad-hitlerum
Sorry. I couldnтАЩt get the link to work. I only got a blank page. I use Bravo.
LetтАЩs take a step back. Does this have more to do with the current election than a future election? Why would they want to rile up republicans? Do they already have something like a Witmer plot arranged?
All I know is no one will dissuade me from voting in November. No matter what happens to Trump, I will vote. ItтАЩs the only voice I have. We have to get a Republican Congress first, then a Republican President and he has to be willing to fire everyone on day one.
Trump wavered. ThatтАЩs on him. He didnтАЩt use the power of his office and didnтАЩt realize the trap his ego rally was. He worked in the swamp for four years and didnтАЩt guess that they would plot to use his rally against him? He was blind. IтАЩd never vote for him again. Though he makes a nice foil for DeSantis to prepare for 2024 without 100% of the negativity focused on him. ThatтАЩs all Trump is good for right now, for me.
No worries. I think its probably Bravo. What the F.B.I. just did requires extraordinary institutional trust and yet they have zero credibility among the vast majority of independents and Republicans. Either the raid is pre-textual and they have something like the Whitmer plot cooked up, or they just made yet another all-time terrible political moves.
I thought of that also. And I donтАЩt know how weтАЩd ever find out for sure.
I guess we will have to wait for the trial to see it on display. I hate even thinking that. IтАЩve become so jaded over the last several years. ItтАЩs a shame.
The first President I voted for was Jimmy Carter, whose calling card was as a DC outsider who could clean up and toss out the garbage. Look what happened to him (I remember the Boston Globe headline, "More Mush From The Wimp", after his declaration of inflation as the moral equivalent of war).
Reagan? An outsider who took on DC and the existing world order. Toppled the USSR, but look at what the DC elites constantly tried to do to him.
Bush 1 was an insider, but primarily elected as Reagan's third term.
Clinton? The ultimate insider who fooled everybody into thinking he was a DC outsider. I really had the most hope for the Rhodes scholar/governor - did a lot but Did Not Have Sexual Relations With That Woman and wound up exposed as a typical member of The Mendacious Order. Very sad.
Bush 2? No idea what happened there.
Obama? The first Black outsider.
Trump? "Ultimate Outsider"
Sorry to ramble but my point is - almost every single president in the last 42 years has been elected as a DC outsider with a mandate to clean up and toss the garbage, and the establishment (including and abetted by the Media) have resisted with every fiber of its being.
The Establishment is too busy trying to be our leader rather than our representative.
clinton was impeached by Big Tobacco.
Yes - new blood. Some younger folks.
Exactly - we have been here before.