Thanks for reposting the FP Forum, I hadn’t found time for it previously but at 6am I have time! Loved this discussion and the insight into the process. I think about the vast majority of people who still watch mainstream news, who still believe the talking heads on tv and the New York Times. I think about the behemoths seemingly running…
Thanks for reposting the FP Forum, I hadn’t found time for it previously but at 6am I have time! Loved this discussion and the insight into the process. I think about the vast majority of people who still watch mainstream news, who still believe the talking heads on tv and the New York Times. I think about the behemoths seemingly running our country, controlling what and who are perceived as the good guys and how easy it is for them to smear people and ruin careers. How the discussion of the trans-ing of kids for profit cannot even be discussed without threat to ones livelihood. I’m having these discussions one by one with people and it seems this atmosphere is getting worse by the day. After all of this discovery and seemingly prosecutable crimes, I fear that nothing will actually change. The collusion between government, media and major corporations is too vast, too cemented to be unraveled in our lifetimes. For those of us fully paying attention, what meager trust we had (& it was small to begin with) is fully eroded. There seems to be too many stories where clearly jail time should be expected but instead of jail, the perpetrators may instead run for public office or gain fame and fortune. Last note - I disagree with how history will view this episode: the Twitter Files will be seen as more significant than Watergate in time.
No one that only consumes MSM knew that anything was going on at the border until the governors of TX and FL did something so "outrageous" that the left had to blow their tops and then people started taking a look. The FAA even succeded in banning the Fox News drones for a couple of days. For no reason other than they didn't want the public to see it.
It's not necessarily that mainstream news outlets lie, it's that they don't properly report on what's relevant. I watched "World News Tonight" for the first time in ages and it consisted of some YouTube videos of someone being rescued from their car and other stories about things that really had no bearing on my life.
I compare it to when I was in England during the Iraq War. The U.S. news reported on a soldier fighting to bring a puppy home from the war zone while, overseas, the reporting described, in great detail, the conflicts between branches of Islam, the history of unrest in the region, etc.
Agree BrammyMIA, the govt-media-big business network is now established. Hello fascism. My only hope now is that there are enough people on the left who remember when they were the defenders of free speech and they hated big govt, especially the intel community. They need to join forces with the great unwashed in fly over country who want religious freedom, traditional family values, and America first. I listen to Schellenberger, Greenwald, Taibbi--all professed lefties--and think, well now, I hear some conservative values there. We CAN join forces. I wonder if it’s time Bari et al ventured into flyover country and found some commonalities. For starters, we have no problem with Jews. That carpenter guy, ya’ know.
My biggest fear is that the GenZs don’t understand the new fascism and actually love it.
Yes, the young ones don’t know any better. For example, they don’t understand why pronouns are a big deal, even if they don’t really support the other stuff. They can’t see the path that pronouns lead to.
A couple of comments in reply - recently Greenwald has has some commentary about calls of antisemitism that he didn’t agree with that didn’t quite come from a place that seemed honest vis a vis Joe Rogan. It has to be called out on both sides - even if you otherwise support the views and open mindedness of a Joe Rogan, when he says essentially, “but Jews DO like money like Italians like Pizza…” um. No. Second, I think it’s wonderful that investigations into trans-ing kids are happening at a local level but federal big government, big tech, big education (especially ivy universities), big media have too big a stronghold that I am more pessimistic. One of the big canaries in the coal mines for me is the lack of political debates held in the past few elections. It’s no shock to me the debate team at my kid’s school couldn’t get restarted after their advisor left.. The lack of tolerance for actual hearing of a different viewpoint is a good indicator of how far gone our country is toward this stronghold.
I too think the debate issue is very telling. But I do not get the whole Jews and money thing. Money itself is not bad. It is merely currency and a way to live a comfortable life. I like money too. It is when that becomes the altar that one worships at that it becomes a problem. My impression is that observant Jews do not make that mistake. Rather they seem to stress education and a strong work ethic, which traditionally result in money. I see nothing wrong with that and other cultures have emulated that with great success. I think part of the issue is that Jews have long maintained their literal tribalism. Which I likewise admire being of the belief that the worst thing one can do is forget where s/he came from. But when others note that they take umbrage. You cannot be different and be justified in umbrage when others note that.
I think what people hear, when someone says something along the lines of what Rogan said, is the implication that Jews have historically been good at business/making money because they are more materialistic/greedy/corrupt than most people and, to the extent that money paves the way, power-hungry and controlling. I think there are people who do actually view them that way and so I understand why others would decry a statement like that as anti-Semitic.
But I also think that Jewish history does indisputably show them as remarkably resilient in their ability to rise as a people, time and again, from devastating and persistent persecution to achieve material success and cultural influence wherever they land. So to the extent such generalizations are allowed (and maybe that's the real issue: generalizations are now verboten no matter how rooted in reality they are), I actually see that as a testament to their general strength of mind, their indefatigable will, their sense of history, and—especially in the case of the orthodox sects—their commitment to purpose and community. IOW, I see it as admirable rather than suspect.
Full disclosure: I did not listen to the JRE interview so I only know Rogan's line as it's been quoted and criticized. But based on that, and knowing what an honest Joe he is, I don't hear him being anti-Semitic so much as off-the-cuff in his phrasing. I don't believe for a moment he was disparaging Jewish people. And it really wouldn't hurt society or the cause of anti-Semitism for us to give him that benefit of the doubt.
It’s the whole Merchant of Venice, Shylock character. A very ugly characterization of a Jewish man, a lender of money, demanding a pound of flesh in repayment for a loan. I think in the past Jews did function in the lending/finance world and were successful (Rothchilds). Good for them. Anyone have a problem with that? Not I.
Brammy, et. al. Take a look at Megyn Kelly’s interview yesterday of Andrew Klaven on here podcast. His book, “How to Save the West,” may have the answer to the dilemma as you state it here.
"...big education (especially ivy universities), big media have too big a stronghold..."
People will be surprised at how quickly the "big education" edifice collapses. Even if the Biden administration manages to give it one last gasp with student debt transfer to taxpayers, it won't be enough. AI and other more efficient and effective modalities for educating are coming. It will be interesting to see how baldly college administrations continue to attempt to redefine a "college education" as: Four years away from home to be babysat by a woke cadre of well-paid leftists, all for the "good" of society.
I am wary of the AI thing. I see some limited use but do not see it as a widespread panacea. Rather it could be a funneling into acceptance of what many of us here see as passing for knowledge. There is already some concern that it is biased toward the left.
The political aspects of it are worthy of concern. But practically, the savings and efficiencies of using it for basic instruction in secondary and higher education are so compelling as to be overwhelming. Again, the big argument against it is that school provides the primary SOCIALIZING force in young people's lives, and alternatives will need to be created for this function alone.
It’s crap Lynne, we need to put a stop to it now. We are making human beings redundant,why in Gods name would we want human beings to sit and do nothing. We all experienced Covid lockdowns thanks to Dr Fauci and his cahoots. How’s that working out for all of us now. AI Will be much worse especially in the hands of the current billionaires and the Democrat party.
The first of our 25 grandchildren to graduate high school is going to a trade school. I am sure many more will follow. He was classically educated at home and also taught to honor and respect manual labor. God knows we need skilled workers.
I wish! I have been trying to push mine to be more individual and pursue her passions but despite the fact that they know what they are getting into - they still want to aspire to the credentials.
Chappelle told a joke about how you never say, “The Jews are (fill in the blank with any adjective). No matter what it is, you’ll be attacked as anti-semitic. Now, at the risk of being accused of being anti-Semitic, may I respectfully suggest that y’all not over-react to every little thing?
Hmm. “Y’all don’t react to every little thing!?” Not Antisemitic but highly condescending with a snide of gaslighting... Joe Rogan is the most watched/listened to podcast. He repeated a centuries-old trope that Jews somehow love and control money? So it’s not “every little thing..” is a big audience hearing an Antisemitic trope..
Here is one of the funniest SNL sketches ever, performed by some of the finest sketch comedians of our time, but couldn't be done today. Note Al Franken doing Senator Paul Simon.
Also while I believe that Joe Rogan and Glenn are on the wrong side of this, I agree with a lot of other things they agree with and I am not de platforming them calling for them to be deplatformed, I just don’t agree with them, I say so and I don’t personal support them. There is a big difference.
There’s what exactly? Pointing out a trope that has gotten people murdered is evidence of over sensitivity? 🤣 joe could’ve said Jews like bagels like Italians like pizza. Over reacting btw is quite different from not supporting. I stand by Joe’s right to say stupid ignorant things (especially coming from someone who loves his $20m Spotify contract) but I don’t have to support it with my eyeballs or $$. Jews like money the same way everyone else does. And if anyone is “overreacting” to the Antisemitic tropes being bandied about widely these days, I would say they have good reason to, considering the insane rise in Antisemitic violent crimes over the past few years. So yes while I believe in everyone’s right to say stupid or racist or Antisemitic things - I do not have to give them support through my money nor time. And, I can call them out with my own speech. Also please don’t conflate whistleblowers with those spouting their opinions...
Agreed. I think the media (like always) took his comments way out of context. I listened to the full podcast before it became a controversy. It was clear to me that what he meant is that people generally like money, just like people generally like pizza. His point was that saying that "Jewish people like money" is not inherently antisemitic. It was not his most eloquent moment, but there was no ill intent. We all say things that don't come off the way we intend. For the record, my family is mixed with Jewish and Italian heritage. We like money and pizza!
I see that as the only real solution. Too much damage has already been done. But if this is true we need to be preserving printed material for them to study.
Thanks for reposting the FP Forum, I hadn’t found time for it previously but at 6am I have time! Loved this discussion and the insight into the process. I think about the vast majority of people who still watch mainstream news, who still believe the talking heads on tv and the New York Times. I think about the behemoths seemingly running our country, controlling what and who are perceived as the good guys and how easy it is for them to smear people and ruin careers. How the discussion of the trans-ing of kids for profit cannot even be discussed without threat to ones livelihood. I’m having these discussions one by one with people and it seems this atmosphere is getting worse by the day. After all of this discovery and seemingly prosecutable crimes, I fear that nothing will actually change. The collusion between government, media and major corporations is too vast, too cemented to be unraveled in our lifetimes. For those of us fully paying attention, what meager trust we had (& it was small to begin with) is fully eroded. There seems to be too many stories where clearly jail time should be expected but instead of jail, the perpetrators may instead run for public office or gain fame and fortune. Last note - I disagree with how history will view this episode: the Twitter Files will be seen as more significant than Watergate in time.
No one that only consumes MSM knew that anything was going on at the border until the governors of TX and FL did something so "outrageous" that the left had to blow their tops and then people started taking a look. The FAA even succeded in banning the Fox News drones for a couple of days. For no reason other than they didn't want the public to see it.
It's not necessarily that mainstream news outlets lie, it's that they don't properly report on what's relevant. I watched "World News Tonight" for the first time in ages and it consisted of some YouTube videos of someone being rescued from their car and other stories about things that really had no bearing on my life.
I compare it to when I was in England during the Iraq War. The U.S. news reported on a soldier fighting to bring a puppy home from the war zone while, overseas, the reporting described, in great detail, the conflicts between branches of Islam, the history of unrest in the region, etc.
Sadly, most "news" now is just entertainment.
Watergate perhaps needs another look as “deep throat” was FBI And the plumbers had CIA connections. Another deep state operation??
Agree BrammyMIA, the govt-media-big business network is now established. Hello fascism. My only hope now is that there are enough people on the left who remember when they were the defenders of free speech and they hated big govt, especially the intel community. They need to join forces with the great unwashed in fly over country who want religious freedom, traditional family values, and America first. I listen to Schellenberger, Greenwald, Taibbi--all professed lefties--and think, well now, I hear some conservative values there. We CAN join forces. I wonder if it’s time Bari et al ventured into flyover country and found some commonalities. For starters, we have no problem with Jews. That carpenter guy, ya’ know.
My biggest fear is that the GenZs don’t understand the new fascism and actually love it.
Yes, the young ones don’t know any better. For example, they don’t understand why pronouns are a big deal, even if they don’t really support the other stuff. They can’t see the path that pronouns lead to.
A couple of comments in reply - recently Greenwald has has some commentary about calls of antisemitism that he didn’t agree with that didn’t quite come from a place that seemed honest vis a vis Joe Rogan. It has to be called out on both sides - even if you otherwise support the views and open mindedness of a Joe Rogan, when he says essentially, “but Jews DO like money like Italians like Pizza…” um. No. Second, I think it’s wonderful that investigations into trans-ing kids are happening at a local level but federal big government, big tech, big education (especially ivy universities), big media have too big a stronghold that I am more pessimistic. One of the big canaries in the coal mines for me is the lack of political debates held in the past few elections. It’s no shock to me the debate team at my kid’s school couldn’t get restarted after their advisor left.. The lack of tolerance for actual hearing of a different viewpoint is a good indicator of how far gone our country is toward this stronghold.
I too think the debate issue is very telling. But I do not get the whole Jews and money thing. Money itself is not bad. It is merely currency and a way to live a comfortable life. I like money too. It is when that becomes the altar that one worships at that it becomes a problem. My impression is that observant Jews do not make that mistake. Rather they seem to stress education and a strong work ethic, which traditionally result in money. I see nothing wrong with that and other cultures have emulated that with great success. I think part of the issue is that Jews have long maintained their literal tribalism. Which I likewise admire being of the belief that the worst thing one can do is forget where s/he came from. But when others note that they take umbrage. You cannot be different and be justified in umbrage when others note that.
I think what people hear, when someone says something along the lines of what Rogan said, is the implication that Jews have historically been good at business/making money because they are more materialistic/greedy/corrupt than most people and, to the extent that money paves the way, power-hungry and controlling. I think there are people who do actually view them that way and so I understand why others would decry a statement like that as anti-Semitic.
But I also think that Jewish history does indisputably show them as remarkably resilient in their ability to rise as a people, time and again, from devastating and persistent persecution to achieve material success and cultural influence wherever they land. So to the extent such generalizations are allowed (and maybe that's the real issue: generalizations are now verboten no matter how rooted in reality they are), I actually see that as a testament to their general strength of mind, their indefatigable will, their sense of history, and—especially in the case of the orthodox sects—their commitment to purpose and community. IOW, I see it as admirable rather than suspect.
Full disclosure: I did not listen to the JRE interview so I only know Rogan's line as it's been quoted and criticized. But based on that, and knowing what an honest Joe he is, I don't hear him being anti-Semitic so much as off-the-cuff in his phrasing. I don't believe for a moment he was disparaging Jewish people. And it really wouldn't hurt society or the cause of anti-Semitism for us to give him that benefit of the doubt.
It’s the whole Merchant of Venice, Shylock character. A very ugly characterization of a Jewish man, a lender of money, demanding a pound of flesh in repayment for a loan. I think in the past Jews did function in the lending/finance world and were successful (Rothchilds). Good for them. Anyone have a problem with that? Not I.
Brammy, et. al. Take a look at Megyn Kelly’s interview yesterday of Andrew Klaven on here podcast. His book, “How to Save the West,” may have the answer to the dilemma as you state it here.
"...big education (especially ivy universities), big media have too big a stronghold..."
People will be surprised at how quickly the "big education" edifice collapses. Even if the Biden administration manages to give it one last gasp with student debt transfer to taxpayers, it won't be enough. AI and other more efficient and effective modalities for educating are coming. It will be interesting to see how baldly college administrations continue to attempt to redefine a "college education" as: Four years away from home to be babysat by a woke cadre of well-paid leftists, all for the "good" of society.
I am wary of the AI thing. I see some limited use but do not see it as a widespread panacea. Rather it could be a funneling into acceptance of what many of us here see as passing for knowledge. There is already some concern that it is biased toward the left.
The political aspects of it are worthy of concern. But practically, the savings and efficiencies of using it for basic instruction in secondary and higher education are so compelling as to be overwhelming. Again, the big argument against it is that school provides the primary SOCIALIZING force in young people's lives, and alternatives will need to be created for this function alone.
It’s crap Lynne, we need to put a stop to it now. We are making human beings redundant,why in Gods name would we want human beings to sit and do nothing. We all experienced Covid lockdowns thanks to Dr Fauci and his cahoots. How’s that working out for all of us now. AI Will be much worse especially in the hands of the current billionaires and the Democrat party.
There’s hope! My 16 yo HS student just asked me about a gap year. She doesn’t see the point in immediately rushing to college.
The first of our 25 grandchildren to graduate high school is going to a trade school. I am sure many more will follow. He was classically educated at home and also taught to honor and respect manual labor. God knows we need skilled workers.
I commend the young man, and your family, for seeing the wisdom in his doing so.
Clever human!
I wish! I have been trying to push mine to be more individual and pursue her passions but despite the fact that they know what they are getting into - they still want to aspire to the credentials.
Chappelle told a joke about how you never say, “The Jews are (fill in the blank with any adjective). No matter what it is, you’ll be attacked as anti-semitic. Now, at the risk of being accused of being anti-Semitic, may I respectfully suggest that y’all not over-react to every little thing?
Hmm. “Y’all don’t react to every little thing!?” Not Antisemitic but highly condescending with a snide of gaslighting... Joe Rogan is the most watched/listened to podcast. He repeated a centuries-old trope that Jews somehow love and control money? So it’s not “every little thing..” is a big audience hearing an Antisemitic trope..
And.....there it is.
Yes, and an example of the death of comedy.
Here is one of the funniest SNL sketches ever, performed by some of the finest sketch comedians of our time, but couldn't be done today. Note Al Franken doing Senator Paul Simon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkJfRpktGc
Also while I believe that Joe Rogan and Glenn are on the wrong side of this, I agree with a lot of other things they agree with and I am not de platforming them calling for them to be deplatformed, I just don’t agree with them, I say so and I don’t personal support them. There is a big difference.
There’s what exactly? Pointing out a trope that has gotten people murdered is evidence of over sensitivity? 🤣 joe could’ve said Jews like bagels like Italians like pizza. Over reacting btw is quite different from not supporting. I stand by Joe’s right to say stupid ignorant things (especially coming from someone who loves his $20m Spotify contract) but I don’t have to support it with my eyeballs or $$. Jews like money the same way everyone else does. And if anyone is “overreacting” to the Antisemitic tropes being bandied about widely these days, I would say they have good reason to, considering the insane rise in Antisemitic violent crimes over the past few years. So yes while I believe in everyone’s right to say stupid or racist or Antisemitic things - I do not have to give them support through my money nor time. And, I can call them out with my own speech. Also please don’t conflate whistleblowers with those spouting their opinions...
So go after the real anti semites where they are— on campuses. Ilhan Omar.
Leave Joe Rogan alone. He meant no harm.
Agreed. I think the media (like always) took his comments way out of context. I listened to the full podcast before it became a controversy. It was clear to me that what he meant is that people generally like money, just like people generally like pizza. His point was that saying that "Jewish people like money" is not inherently antisemitic. It was not his most eloquent moment, but there was no ill intent. We all say things that don't come off the way we intend. For the record, my family is mixed with Jewish and Italian heritage. We like money and pizza!
I heard that many Gen Zs are rebelling against (what else is new?) their woke parents. So maybe there is hope
I see that as the only real solution. Too much damage has already been done. But if this is true we need to be preserving printed material for them to study.