In May of 1968, more than 50 years ago, Eric Hoffer wrote about the bad optics of defending yourself. Many people are familiar with a truncated quote that includes just the first four paragraphs, That's unfortunate, because it's the last sentence of the ninth paragraph that should wake us all up. Here's the longer version:
In May of 1968, more than 50 years ago, Eric Hoffer wrote about the bad optics of defending yourself. Many people are familiar with a truncated quote that includes just the first four paragraphs, That's unfortunate, because it's the last sentence of the ninth paragraph that should wake us all up. Here's the longer version:
"The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews.
Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russian did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it, Turkey threw out a million Greeks, and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese-and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees.
Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab. Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis.
Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious it must sue for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world.
Other nations when they are defeated survive and recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews.
No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on. There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Negroes are executed in Rhodesia. But when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one remonstrated with him.
The Swedes, who are ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we do in Vietnam, did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway.
The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to America and the West in general.
I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us."
The Jews were certainly not alone in the world under the previous U.S. administration, not that the propaganda outlets which pass for modern media would dare to let you know.
US politicans are for the most part pro - Israel, this is evident by the fact they did not support a ceasefire as proposed by the United Nations. This is a moral abomination, Gaza is being decimated, kids being killed, bombs dropping...call a spade a spade.
Ok. Let’s call a spade a spade. Gaza is being bombed. No argument.
Why is Gaza being bombed? Because Hamas is firing rockets at Israeli civilians and damn those Jews just won’t let themselves be killed. We’re you this pissed when kids died building Hamas’ terror tunnels? We’re you this pissed when Hamas shot rockets that fell short and landed in Gaza? Are you this pissed that Hamas won’t hold elections?
Ally, yes, I am pissed off whenever Hamas uses kids as human shields. I am pissed off at the death of any jewish child in the world. I am appalled at anti - semitism, speak out against it and tried to organize an event examining the correlation between the jihadi narrative and the Quranic text, and the texts support anti - semitism. But, it seems to you that as long as Hamas is also killing children then it doesn't matter that Israel also kills them. What happened to Jewish teaching about killing one innocent person is like killing all of humanity. The comments out here seem to have zero concern about kids being bombed, this is immoral. I stand by my comments.
So what's your suggestion for the two sides to come together? Funny how you point out Jewish teaching about killing. So the Jewish people should sit back and wait to be decimated because of Jewish teaching, while Hamas can proceed with business as usual.
Ah. So you’d like Israel not to kill any innocents. Israel would like that was well. But, see, the only way it can do that is to not defend itself. Is that what you’re advocating for? For Israel to let its people be bombed into oblivion? Because unless you’ve found some magical way to stop Hamas rockets from being fired at Israel from civilian areas, assuring it’s own destruction is the only way Israel won’t kill any civilians. And, I assure you that won’t be happening.
What happened to that teaching? Well, it’s not actually a teaching. The actual teaching is saving a life is like saving the world. You just flipped it. Or, learned it incorrectly. And, as for the ACTUAL teaching. Israel goes to great lengths to ensure it’s as careful as it can be. Give me another army that warns about attacks ahead of time. I’ll wait.
Now, to your main question, do I care? Very much so. I spend hours looking at photos of war torn areas. Gaza, Syria, Kurdistan, etc. I have kids. I think about them in those situations constantly. I want to remind myself what it looks like beyond headlines. I look. I cry. And, I get pissed. Why do I get pissed? Well, aside from no one giving a shit about the Yazidis or the Kurds or the millions upon millions of children starved, raped, and killed by war, I’ve lost track of the people “advocating” for Palestinians and never once mentioning Hamas, or Lebanon or Syria or any of the other countries where Palestinians are second class citizens, where children can’t go to school, where they suffer and not only do people not care, most of them don’t even KNOW. You don’t advocate for Palestinians by attacking Israel and ignoring Hamas. That’s just advocating for more dead Jews alongside the Palestinians. Perhaps if those “advocating” for Palestinians recognized the main cause of the conflict, those of us defending Israel might be a little less defensive.
Let's see, I have defended the rights of children for approx. 30 years - this means children in Rwanda, Darfur, Yazidis, Israel, Palestine and the world over. I have fought to protect children from child trafficking, rape and exploitation and devoted time, energy and resources to fight this evil. I spoke out when I learned of the exodus of Jews from Malmo, Sweden, because of violence and harassment by Arab Muslims and condemned it at every opportunity. I have spoken out on Nazi ideology and have been tormented by images of the Holocaust since I was 16. I condemn Muslims when they recite passages of their religious texts that celebrate the Battle of Khaybar where hundreds of Jewish males were killed and their wives taken as slaves. I do so infront of their face and not on the internet, many get angry and try to justify their antisemitism but I always argue back.
Do not assume because I weep and grieve for children being bombed that I am only one sided on this issue. Far from it, but, I do think any battle/war must be done in proportion. History is filled with indiscriminate bombing i.e Dresden, the Blitz, Vietnam., Israel has the air-force to inflict mass suffering, and my position is simple - do not kill children, period. it is evil and no religion permits such an I think you will understand my viewpoint, tribalism rears its ugly head once again, and the suffering children be damned.
Do you hear how you sound? Any battle/war must be done in proportion? Really? Then tell Hamas not to release hundreds of rockets when the Jewish people haven't done anything to warrant them. Thousands of years wars have seen people killed disproportionately, including children, so how do you propose making wars "fair?" I don't want to see any human killed, but when it's war, there's little control over keeping everyone safe.
In an ideal world, your position is very admirable.
Do you think that the Israeli government deliberately kills children in order to kill children? Do you think that Hamas does?
Do you know how to retaliate against and stop a military organization which hides among civilians, without causing any civilian injuries and deaths?
I get that you accept some portion of the reality of modern conflict, but I'm wondering if you may be oversimplifying other parts of it in assuming that Israel could have avoided all/most civilian casualties if they only cared about kids.
And - this is more of a genuine question than it may appear. If you do have more wisdom to offer about how the Israeli government could defend itself without "undue" casualties, I will listen. You well might have more insight than others whose points I have heard, and I change my mind when the evidence leads elsewhere. Make a good case for the feasibility, not just the unquestioned moral positives of avoiding civilian deaths (including children) when possible.
You didn’t answer my question. Israel can only avoid deaths completely by letting itself (and its children) be bombed into oblivion. Is that what you’re advocating?
4,000 rockets fired at Israel, which has the gall to be able to defend itself. What, you want more casualties? I don't see you calling that spade a damned thing.
1) It's a tragedy, always to mourn and regret, never to celebrate
2) It's not the full picture; it's not like the Allies should have withdrawn from WWII he first time a child on the Axis side got killed, because any death of a child supercedes any big picture. I do care about children, on all sides, but I'm not going to go off half cocked because someone is trying to manipulate my emotions. "Children have been killed" does not mean "all logic, perspective, and reason go out the window".
Yep. perfectly stated. At this point it's clear that Israel is firmly on it's own. The Gaza experiment (giving back land) didn't work. I used to believe in that BS but now see the reality that nothing has changed in 3000 years and nothing Jews do will suffice. It is not the legitimate criticism that drives me nuts, it's the hypocrisy.
Yep and currently will be adopted in the California Ethic Studies curriculum. One of the most insidious indoctrination mechanisms teach our kids to hate.
Personally, I was shocked and horrified when PM Ariel Sharon gave Gaza over. My gut told me that this would come to no good end but I kept my thoughts to myself and hoped for the best. Gaza could have become a small, prosperous nation but, instead, the Pals use it as a missile launching pad.
Yep but they have allies. Western altruism demands that we stand with the mullahs and the misogynistic, homophobic leaders of hate as they insist Israel are the oppressors.
This comment and the replies have educated me greatly. I always appreciate when others give historical analogies that help me to understand the situation better.
In 1992, when the United Nations and the Clinton Administration decided it was in everybody's best interest to breakup Yugoslavia into six ethnic/religious based countries, nobody cared what the consequences were to the populations that were being displaced...nobody. I have a friend, who is ethnically Serbian, whose family lived in Zadar (now in Croatia) for 75 years. They owned multiple homes and a brand new hotel in this resort town...which were confiscated when the Croatian government took control. The family was forced to relocate to Serbia, where they had no relatives or business connections. Who cared?...nobody cared. Yugoslavia just disappeared from the world map...Poof! Gone! Where's the lingering outrage for these ethnically cleansed and displaced populations?
@catskill Thank you for your comment. What precipitated the breakup of Yugoslavia and all the atrocities that followed was the ethnification of the country that was mostly imposed by the EU and the US. Suddenly, Yugoslavia was portrayed as an "oppressor", and different groups were strongly encouraged to implement ethnic studies in schools and to see themselves primarily through their ethnic identity and as victims. We all know how that story ended. If it seems familiar as something that is happening in the US today it's because it seems that they US is applying its own foreign policy weapon on itself. As the US and parts of the West as being torn apart on from the inside by ethnification it does not bode well for countries like Israel that are tied and in some ways dependent on them.
Exactly. Tribalism is rearing it's ugly head globally, thanks to insanely radical American academics. It's right now, here, in the U.S. What does it take to prevent ethnic cleansing from happening everywhere? Apparently guts. When it starts to break put, speak up, fight it. Some ancient, 2000- year-old stereotypes in 2021? Not acceptable.
Galleta, you use the term 'tribal' as if it's a pejorative, as an anthropologist, I have to decode that in my brain when you use the word derisively and, I would say incorrectly. Also you keep speaking about 'systems' which is an abstraction. Can you define these systems? You can't merely throw out abstract, invisible notions of "systems" and expect to win people over to your argument.
Galleta, your comment is dripping with hate. Nobody is helping the Jews of Israel, they are victims of the double-standard ... not to mention endless boycotts and whatnot. Please do not pretend that you are better than Jews because you are a Gentile. Life is not the simple and you shouldn't speak that way.
Galleta is trolling. Someone who uses a term like "sheesh Louise" (which is a Christian-circles euphemism to avoid the "jeez" in "jeez Louise") and who simultaneously uses terms like "butthurt" and "sod off", who is shilling for Farrakhan, is at best a fundamentally unserious individual but, much more likely, intentionally trolling.
"Regardless of not being consulted on your decision making, not being consulted by your enemy’s on their decision making, the goyim world owes you ... what?"
Six million. I don't think you understand how the holocaust happened. They were all nazis. Jews were turned away from every country in the world during the holocaust besides soviet freaking Russia. They were turned away from America too. Britain severely limited Jewish immigration to Israel, which could have saved countless Jews. Jews were left stateless throughout Europe. America turned back ships of Jews fleeing the Holocaust. After the war there were pogroms against Jews who returned to their homes in Eastern Europe. And nobody's making you send your children into the region, Israel takes care of itself. But sure, regurgitate BS conspiracy theories about Jews. Goyim? That's just a term for nations of the world. Many of whom have been exceedingly, and still are, amoral in their treatment or attitudes towards Jews.
FDR would not even allow the immigration quotas to be filled starting in 1938. My 3 living grandparents in Berlin could not come to the US despite my parents committing to supporting them.
Similar thing happened to my family. My grandparents had to go to Argentina before getting to America, all because of FDR. Obviously I am not using my real name on substack, I have a public job and need to protect myself from Cancel Culture.
No, they weren’t all Nazis. Not by any stretch. It’s kind of amazing. You started out with a fairly nuanced comment and in 3 comments dissolved into complete BS. That’s an impressive achievement.
No. If I destroyed you, you’d have shut your mouth. I have zero interest in destroying you. I’m only interested in refuting your BS for someone who’s not a blatantly anti Semitic asshole.
Yea, you’re not saving, anyone. We get it. You wouldn’t spit on someone if they were on fire.
Galleta, a vast middle ground between Nazi and .... ? Really? Gosh, I'm a history instructor and I'm glad you're not one of my colleagues. Seems like your view of history is skewed in the extreme. No wonder you are anti-Israel, you're pro-Nazi and probably pro-Hamas.
The European nations were, America has been nicer to Jews. So, there are two sides to every story. But don’t forget the more than just look away from evil, so many regular citizens joined in and sold out their Jewish neighbors, and took part in the killings, looting etc. so please forgive me if I’m not too friendly when I think about Europeans.
Jewish blood is scattered across that continent and has been for centuries. And now when it comes to Israel, the same sentiment is coming back. So they’re trying to ethnically cleanse us off their land which was our land, and from Israel.
Yeah I’m a little sensitive when it comes to people whining about Jews or rationalizing the Holocaust.
Dude they hated Jews. They walked them down the streets and ripped their bears out. They shot them in cold blood. They hunted them down in small polish villages and sent them off to treblinka, where they were eventually exterminated. They wrote about their hate in the memoirs too. I promise you, it was worse than what you’ve been told. It wasn’t like they hated Jews like some people are racist. They had an entire philosophy and world view that was based on the Jews being subhuman, like the gays roma and feeble, and that they were a cancer to the German “Volk”. This was status quo. They loved it. Obviously a few resisted. A few. As Hannah Arendt wrote in her book, the Banality of Evil - these people didn’t know that what they were doing was evil. They were depraved.
You’re saying because Jews are successful that means no one hated them. There are successful Jews wherever you go, whether in Germany, America, or Iran. However in the years leading up to the war they were kicked out of universities, boycotted, had their businesses forcefully taken from the, etc. before that, after they were let out of the ghettoes, no. People were still human. Jews know how to take care of themselves, is that an issue? I guess if you can’t compete, murder the lot. Never mind that the vast majority were beyond poor and living in shtetls. I’m not sure what you’re trying to insinuate here.
What does Farrakhan "is an American" who "built this country" mean? The inference? Jews "built" this country, too. They "built" the film industry --Hollywood, the quintessentially American movie business! Shall I go on?? Medicine, stand up comedy, burlesque, music, science? Finance? Fought in wars? Mel Brooks? Were they somehow not "American?" I am all for giving everyone credit where credit is due, but "built this country" is becoming a meme "on the backs" of an overwhelming majority of Irish, Scots, Germans, Italians, Jews, indentured English, Chinese, and more.
I am not Jewish, but had the great advantage of growing up in an old money, blueblood- monied Jewish community. I managed to emerge from Catholic college with Jewish friends -- laughing, always. As a Christian, I love parts of their religion as a precursor to my own. "Built" indeed.
Huh. Are there Jews who cheat people for money? I don’t know. I assume. Just like there are all kinds of people who do. The fact that Jews are wealthy while also being minority makes people who can’t compete big mad I get it. So they’re butt hurt about Jews being richer, more educated, and living better than them. And make up conspiracy theories about them, because they can’t stand a world where Jews are successful because of their strong work ethic and respect for education while they squat for years doing nothing but stewing in hate. Also - there are plenty of poor Jews living in Israel who live meal to meal. In America, which is incredibly capitalist, Jews go to college at twice the rate as non Jews. There are also plenty of poor Jews in America. You don’t see it and neither do I. I’ve never seen a homeless jew in my community. People make it work. They especially make it work for their families. Don’t forget there were quotas for Jews back in the day for university spots and certain jobs like being a doctor. So they made their own hospitals. Again - people love to theorize about Jews, and it just shows how poor they are and the hate they have in their hearts. Jews can come from nothing and create something, they proved that after the war. Meanwhile there are some people who have been sitting in poverty for years gnashing their teeth at the Jews. I think that’s pathetic but if you want reasons for this, it’s because they hate Jews and the fact that they’re wealthy while they’re not. This is America. If you can’t compete, get government assistance. Also, this rant is unhinged coming from you. I appreciate your support for Israel but wtf is this. Farrakhan is a vile monster who has charisma and apparently it worked on you. Congratulations for being predictable.
In May of 1968, more than 50 years ago, Eric Hoffer wrote about the bad optics of defending yourself. Many people are familiar with a truncated quote that includes just the first four paragraphs, That's unfortunate, because it's the last sentence of the ninth paragraph that should wake us all up. Here's the longer version:
"The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews.
Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russian did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it, Turkey threw out a million Greeks, and Algeria a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese-and no one says a word about refugees. But in the case of Israel the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees.
Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab. Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis.
Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious it must sue for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world.
Other nations when they are defeated survive and recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews.
No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on. There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Negroes are executed in Rhodesia. But when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one remonstrated with him.
The Swedes, who are ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we do in Vietnam, did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews. They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway.
The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us. And one has only to imagine what would have happened last summer had the Arabs and their Russian backers won the war to realize how vital the survival of Israel is to America and the West in general.
I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us."
Outstanding quote & sadly true.
The Jews were certainly not alone in the world under the previous U.S. administration, not that the propaganda outlets which pass for modern media would dare to let you know.
US politicans are for the most part pro - Israel, this is evident by the fact they did not support a ceasefire as proposed by the United Nations. This is a moral abomination, Gaza is being decimated, kids being killed, bombs dropping...call a spade a spade.
Ok. Let’s call a spade a spade. Gaza is being bombed. No argument.
Why is Gaza being bombed? Because Hamas is firing rockets at Israeli civilians and damn those Jews just won’t let themselves be killed. We’re you this pissed when kids died building Hamas’ terror tunnels? We’re you this pissed when Hamas shot rockets that fell short and landed in Gaza? Are you this pissed that Hamas won’t hold elections?
Ally, yes, I am pissed off whenever Hamas uses kids as human shields. I am pissed off at the death of any jewish child in the world. I am appalled at anti - semitism, speak out against it and tried to organize an event examining the correlation between the jihadi narrative and the Quranic text, and the texts support anti - semitism. But, it seems to you that as long as Hamas is also killing children then it doesn't matter that Israel also kills them. What happened to Jewish teaching about killing one innocent person is like killing all of humanity. The comments out here seem to have zero concern about kids being bombed, this is immoral. I stand by my comments.
So what's your suggestion for the two sides to come together? Funny how you point out Jewish teaching about killing. So the Jewish people should sit back and wait to be decimated because of Jewish teaching, while Hamas can proceed with business as usual.
Ah. So you’d like Israel not to kill any innocents. Israel would like that was well. But, see, the only way it can do that is to not defend itself. Is that what you’re advocating for? For Israel to let its people be bombed into oblivion? Because unless you’ve found some magical way to stop Hamas rockets from being fired at Israel from civilian areas, assuring it’s own destruction is the only way Israel won’t kill any civilians. And, I assure you that won’t be happening.
What happened to that teaching? Well, it’s not actually a teaching. The actual teaching is saving a life is like saving the world. You just flipped it. Or, learned it incorrectly. And, as for the ACTUAL teaching. Israel goes to great lengths to ensure it’s as careful as it can be. Give me another army that warns about attacks ahead of time. I’ll wait.
Now, to your main question, do I care? Very much so. I spend hours looking at photos of war torn areas. Gaza, Syria, Kurdistan, etc. I have kids. I think about them in those situations constantly. I want to remind myself what it looks like beyond headlines. I look. I cry. And, I get pissed. Why do I get pissed? Well, aside from no one giving a shit about the Yazidis or the Kurds or the millions upon millions of children starved, raped, and killed by war, I’ve lost track of the people “advocating” for Palestinians and never once mentioning Hamas, or Lebanon or Syria or any of the other countries where Palestinians are second class citizens, where children can’t go to school, where they suffer and not only do people not care, most of them don’t even KNOW. You don’t advocate for Palestinians by attacking Israel and ignoring Hamas. That’s just advocating for more dead Jews alongside the Palestinians. Perhaps if those “advocating” for Palestinians recognized the main cause of the conflict, those of us defending Israel might be a little less defensive.
Let's see, I have defended the rights of children for approx. 30 years - this means children in Rwanda, Darfur, Yazidis, Israel, Palestine and the world over. I have fought to protect children from child trafficking, rape and exploitation and devoted time, energy and resources to fight this evil. I spoke out when I learned of the exodus of Jews from Malmo, Sweden, because of violence and harassment by Arab Muslims and condemned it at every opportunity. I have spoken out on Nazi ideology and have been tormented by images of the Holocaust since I was 16. I condemn Muslims when they recite passages of their religious texts that celebrate the Battle of Khaybar where hundreds of Jewish males were killed and their wives taken as slaves. I do so infront of their face and not on the internet, many get angry and try to justify their antisemitism but I always argue back.
Do not assume because I weep and grieve for children being bombed that I am only one sided on this issue. Far from it, but, I do think any battle/war must be done in proportion. History is filled with indiscriminate bombing i.e Dresden, the Blitz, Vietnam., Israel has the air-force to inflict mass suffering, and my position is simple - do not kill children, period. it is evil and no religion permits such an I think you will understand my viewpoint, tribalism rears its ugly head once again, and the suffering children be damned.
Do you hear how you sound? Any battle/war must be done in proportion? Really? Then tell Hamas not to release hundreds of rockets when the Jewish people haven't done anything to warrant them. Thousands of years wars have seen people killed disproportionately, including children, so how do you propose making wars "fair?" I don't want to see any human killed, but when it's war, there's little control over keeping everyone safe.
no one is mentioning that Syria killed +500000 Syrian men, women and children in mass bombings. Did everyone forget that, it was only a few years ago.
In an ideal world, your position is very admirable.
Do you think that the Israeli government deliberately kills children in order to kill children? Do you think that Hamas does?
Do you know how to retaliate against and stop a military organization which hides among civilians, without causing any civilian injuries and deaths?
I get that you accept some portion of the reality of modern conflict, but I'm wondering if you may be oversimplifying other parts of it in assuming that Israel could have avoided all/most civilian casualties if they only cared about kids.
And - this is more of a genuine question than it may appear. If you do have more wisdom to offer about how the Israeli government could defend itself without "undue" casualties, I will listen. You well might have more insight than others whose points I have heard, and I change my mind when the evidence leads elsewhere. Make a good case for the feasibility, not just the unquestioned moral positives of avoiding civilian deaths (including children) when possible.
You didn’t answer my question. Israel can only avoid deaths completely by letting itself (and its children) be bombed into oblivion. Is that what you’re advocating?
It seems Singh did. She's vehemently opposed to the Israelis killing children, but not a mention about Syria. Strange, isn't it, or is it?
Yes, the anti Semites have indeed been supporting Hamas. I haven’t seen single mention of their double war crimes.
4,000 rockets fired at Israel, which has the gall to be able to defend itself. What, you want more casualties? I don't see you calling that spade a damned thing.
Do you even give a shit about kids being bombed at all?
Does Hamas give a shit about Palestinian kids being bombed and killed? Never.
1) It's a tragedy, always to mourn and regret, never to celebrate
2) It's not the full picture; it's not like the Allies should have withdrawn from WWII he first time a child on the Axis side got killed, because any death of a child supercedes any big picture. I do care about children, on all sides, but I'm not going to go off half cocked because someone is trying to manipulate my emotions. "Children have been killed" does not mean "all logic, perspective, and reason go out the window".
Yep. perfectly stated. At this point it's clear that Israel is firmly on it's own. The Gaza experiment (giving back land) didn't work. I used to believe in that BS but now see the reality that nothing has changed in 3000 years and nothing Jews do will suffice. It is not the legitimate criticism that drives me nuts, it's the hypocrisy.
Unappeasable. Also seen in CRT.
Yep and currently will be adopted in the California Ethic Studies curriculum. One of the most insidious indoctrination mechanisms teach our kids to hate.
Personally, I was shocked and horrified when PM Ariel Sharon gave Gaza over. My gut told me that this would come to no good end but I kept my thoughts to myself and hoped for the best. Gaza could have become a small, prosperous nation but, instead, the Pals use it as a missile launching pad.
Yep but they have allies. Western altruism demands that we stand with the mullahs and the misogynistic, homophobic leaders of hate as they insist Israel are the oppressors.
This comment and the replies have educated me greatly. I always appreciate when others give historical analogies that help me to understand the situation better.
In 1992, when the United Nations and the Clinton Administration decided it was in everybody's best interest to breakup Yugoslavia into six ethnic/religious based countries, nobody cared what the consequences were to the populations that were being displaced...nobody. I have a friend, who is ethnically Serbian, whose family lived in Zadar (now in Croatia) for 75 years. They owned multiple homes and a brand new hotel in this resort town...which were confiscated when the Croatian government took control. The family was forced to relocate to Serbia, where they had no relatives or business connections. Who cared?...nobody cared. Yugoslavia just disappeared from the world map...Poof! Gone! Where's the lingering outrage for these ethnically cleansed and displaced populations?
@catskill Thank you for your comment. What precipitated the breakup of Yugoslavia and all the atrocities that followed was the ethnification of the country that was mostly imposed by the EU and the US. Suddenly, Yugoslavia was portrayed as an "oppressor", and different groups were strongly encouraged to implement ethnic studies in schools and to see themselves primarily through their ethnic identity and as victims. We all know how that story ended. If it seems familiar as something that is happening in the US today it's because it seems that they US is applying its own foreign policy weapon on itself. As the US and parts of the West as being torn apart on from the inside by ethnification it does not bode well for countries like Israel that are tied and in some ways dependent on them.
Exactly. Tribalism is rearing it's ugly head globally, thanks to insanely radical American academics. It's right now, here, in the U.S. What does it take to prevent ethnic cleansing from happening everywhere? Apparently guts. When it starts to break put, speak up, fight it. Some ancient, 2000- year-old stereotypes in 2021? Not acceptable.
Strong.
incredible...
Galleta, you use the term 'tribal' as if it's a pejorative, as an anthropologist, I have to decode that in my brain when you use the word derisively and, I would say incorrectly. Also you keep speaking about 'systems' which is an abstraction. Can you define these systems? You can't merely throw out abstract, invisible notions of "systems" and expect to win people over to your argument.
Galleta, your comment is dripping with hate. Nobody is helping the Jews of Israel, they are victims of the double-standard ... not to mention endless boycotts and whatnot. Please do not pretend that you are better than Jews because you are a Gentile. Life is not the simple and you shouldn't speak that way.
Galleta is trolling. Someone who uses a term like "sheesh Louise" (which is a Christian-circles euphemism to avoid the "jeez" in "jeez Louise") and who simultaneously uses terms like "butthurt" and "sod off", who is shilling for Farrakhan, is at best a fundamentally unserious individual but, much more likely, intentionally trolling.
I'm not even Jewish. Git gud.
"Regardless of not being consulted on your decision making, not being consulted by your enemy’s on their decision making, the goyim world owes you ... what?"
Six million. I don't think you understand how the holocaust happened. They were all nazis. Jews were turned away from every country in the world during the holocaust besides soviet freaking Russia. They were turned away from America too. Britain severely limited Jewish immigration to Israel, which could have saved countless Jews. Jews were left stateless throughout Europe. America turned back ships of Jews fleeing the Holocaust. After the war there were pogroms against Jews who returned to their homes in Eastern Europe. And nobody's making you send your children into the region, Israel takes care of itself. But sure, regurgitate BS conspiracy theories about Jews. Goyim? That's just a term for nations of the world. Many of whom have been exceedingly, and still are, amoral in their treatment or attitudes towards Jews.
FDR would not even allow the immigration quotas to be filled starting in 1938. My 3 living grandparents in Berlin could not come to the US despite my parents committing to supporting them.
Similar thing happened to my family. My grandparents had to go to Argentina before getting to America, all because of FDR. Obviously I am not using my real name on substack, I have a public job and need to protect myself from Cancel Culture.
FDR has plenty of blood on his hands
Amen!
Dems do. It's the party
Yes, the Dems are the party of systemic racism. FDR was acting like a typical Dem President.
No, they weren’t all Nazis. Not by any stretch. It’s kind of amazing. You started out with a fairly nuanced comment and in 3 comments dissolved into complete BS. That’s an impressive achievement.
Which is about as much as you care about facts. So, that makes sense.
No. If I destroyed you, you’d have shut your mouth. I have zero interest in destroying you. I’m only interested in refuting your BS for someone who’s not a blatantly anti Semitic asshole.
Yea, you’re not saving, anyone. We get it. You wouldn’t spit on someone if they were on fire.
You are the “they” that would be coming so, cleary you wouldn’t be risking your life. You’d be taking lives.
Galleta, a vast middle ground between Nazi and .... ? Really? Gosh, I'm a history instructor and I'm glad you're not one of my colleagues. Seems like your view of history is skewed in the extreme. No wonder you are anti-Israel, you're pro-Nazi and probably pro-Hamas.
Nah, I wouldn’t say that. Just very far right. With views influenced by their far right buddies
Whoever accused you of being a Zionist needs to look up the word “Zionist” in a dictionary.
Based on your comments I have no doubt you support Hamas trying to kill Jews. Anti semites like you stick together.
There is no “treaty.” There are contracts and agreements. That’s not a “treaty.”
The European nations were, America has been nicer to Jews. So, there are two sides to every story. But don’t forget the more than just look away from evil, so many regular citizens joined in and sold out their Jewish neighbors, and took part in the killings, looting etc. so please forgive me if I’m not too friendly when I think about Europeans.
Jewish blood is scattered across that continent and has been for centuries. And now when it comes to Israel, the same sentiment is coming back. So they’re trying to ethnically cleanse us off their land which was our land, and from Israel.
Yeah I’m a little sensitive when it comes to people whining about Jews or rationalizing the Holocaust.
Judd, your analysis is spot on.
Dude they hated Jews. They walked them down the streets and ripped their bears out. They shot them in cold blood. They hunted them down in small polish villages and sent them off to treblinka, where they were eventually exterminated. They wrote about their hate in the memoirs too. I promise you, it was worse than what you’ve been told. It wasn’t like they hated Jews like some people are racist. They had an entire philosophy and world view that was based on the Jews being subhuman, like the gays roma and feeble, and that they were a cancer to the German “Volk”. This was status quo. They loved it. Obviously a few resisted. A few. As Hannah Arendt wrote in her book, the Banality of Evil - these people didn’t know that what they were doing was evil. They were depraved.
Beards*
You’re saying because Jews are successful that means no one hated them. There are successful Jews wherever you go, whether in Germany, America, or Iran. However in the years leading up to the war they were kicked out of universities, boycotted, had their businesses forcefully taken from the, etc. before that, after they were let out of the ghettoes, no. People were still human. Jews know how to take care of themselves, is that an issue? I guess if you can’t compete, murder the lot. Never mind that the vast majority were beyond poor and living in shtetls. I’m not sure what you’re trying to insinuate here.
What does Farrakhan "is an American" who "built this country" mean? The inference? Jews "built" this country, too. They "built" the film industry --Hollywood, the quintessentially American movie business! Shall I go on?? Medicine, stand up comedy, burlesque, music, science? Finance? Fought in wars? Mel Brooks? Were they somehow not "American?" I am all for giving everyone credit where credit is due, but "built this country" is becoming a meme "on the backs" of an overwhelming majority of Irish, Scots, Germans, Italians, Jews, indentured English, Chinese, and more.
I am not Jewish, but had the great advantage of growing up in an old money, blueblood- monied Jewish community. I managed to emerge from Catholic college with Jewish friends -- laughing, always. As a Christian, I love parts of their religion as a precursor to my own. "Built" indeed.
Huh. Are there Jews who cheat people for money? I don’t know. I assume. Just like there are all kinds of people who do. The fact that Jews are wealthy while also being minority makes people who can’t compete big mad I get it. So they’re butt hurt about Jews being richer, more educated, and living better than them. And make up conspiracy theories about them, because they can’t stand a world where Jews are successful because of their strong work ethic and respect for education while they squat for years doing nothing but stewing in hate. Also - there are plenty of poor Jews living in Israel who live meal to meal. In America, which is incredibly capitalist, Jews go to college at twice the rate as non Jews. There are also plenty of poor Jews in America. You don’t see it and neither do I. I’ve never seen a homeless jew in my community. People make it work. They especially make it work for their families. Don’t forget there were quotas for Jews back in the day for university spots and certain jobs like being a doctor. So they made their own hospitals. Again - people love to theorize about Jews, and it just shows how poor they are and the hate they have in their hearts. Jews can come from nothing and create something, they proved that after the war. Meanwhile there are some people who have been sitting in poverty for years gnashing their teeth at the Jews. I think that’s pathetic but if you want reasons for this, it’s because they hate Jews and the fact that they’re wealthy while they’re not. This is America. If you can’t compete, get government assistance. Also, this rant is unhinged coming from you. I appreciate your support for Israel but wtf is this. Farrakhan is a vile monster who has charisma and apparently it worked on you. Congratulations for being predictable.