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NCMaureen's avatar

Bari, when will we see the progressives finally acknowledge the wreckage they have brought on America?

People sit in solitary confinement for months for their actions on January 6. No parole, not trial. This is an outrage. Thanks to Glenn Greenwald for speaking out on this, but no one hears him.

Meantime, the progressive democrats are destroying America piece by piece.

When are you going to interview a true conservative person who can share his or her views on how America is being destroyed by the left before our eyes? I suggest Victor Davis Hanson.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

That will happen around the same time conservatives finally acknowledge the wreckage they have wrought by putting Trump in the Oval Office.

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NCMaureen's avatar

Oh, like a roaring economy, energy independence, and full employment? That wreckage?

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

Yeah, and progressives are finally ending bigotry. Both sides have their talking points/spin, and neither side seems like they're planning to acknowledge their wreckage anytime soon. And so, the spin will continue.

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Brian Katz's avatar

I can’t disagree, the far right and the far left are the problem. They play off of each other and screw the folks in the middle. Seems to me that if centrists could form a political party, it would have the majority and could send the extremes packing. Then we could govern the country in a respectable manner.

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Brian Katz's avatar

Do you believe Democrats are ending bigotry or are you saying Democrats believe they are ending bigotry ?

My opinion is that the current culture war is creating more bigotry by dividing people.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

I'm saying Democrats believe it.

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james p mc grenra's avatar

yes...they could be That Stupid, only answer. thanks

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Brian Katz's avatar

👍👍

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Neil Kellen's avatar

A hearty embrace of CRT is the opposite of ending bigotry.

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james p mc grenra's avatar

Neil...to the point, Explicit. Some, not many, only give inserts that can't be understood because they are so vague and off base.

What a laugh, for someone to state "Trumty -Wreckage". People like to say "i am in the middle", lets them off easy, but what they really mean is

" i do not know any details". thanks

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

Being in the middle really, REALLY means knowing the details that make the left look bad, and knowing the details that make the right look bad.

Most people nowadays read curated, cherrypicked info from one side of the aisle or the other. Hence, they are either "highly informed" about Trump's shortcomings, or "highly informed" about social justice craziness, but not both.

Congratulations on being "highly informed" with cherrypicked MAGA-supporting factoids. You're almost halfway there to actually understanding politics. Almost.

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publius_x's avatar

What you don't seem to understand is that MAGA/Trump is NOT extreme right wing. It's more middle-right. They are against Mitch McConnell's lugubrious reign of warhawks and washington status quo. MAGA people hate the big companies getting tax breaks and the rich lawyers and bankers getting said same.

Trump's biggest crime was being an un-vetted (by the DC establishment) entry into politics. He didn't play the game, and didn't pay his dues. So both sides of the uniparty drummed him up to be something more than what he was. He was basically a narcissistic nincompoop who wasn't as smart as he thought, but was occasionally right on common sense economic issues.

But he was presented as a EVIL! RACIST! SEXIST! ANTI-SEMITE! MURDEROUS! TRAITOR! by both the rump GOP establishment and the entire DNC and their handmaidens in the media. This despite he was a big donor to the DNC (and their candidate's husband) in the past, and that as a member in good standing of the entertainment class, he was never blackballed for these character traits until his first speech "down the escalator."

The narrative has always been bullshit. Trump hasn't "ruined" our democracy. He has shined a spotlight on it. Right now the democracy exists for the political class, not the people (demos). That's why they hate him. No policy positions or anything like that. He didn't need the industry, so he was willing to blow it up.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

I'd reply to that with a Dave Chappelle quote:

“I know that rich white people call poor white people trash. And the only reason I know that is because I made so much money last year, the rich whites told me they say it at a cocktail party.

And I stood with them in line, like all of us Americans are required to do in a democracy – nobody skips the line to vote – and I listened to them. I listened to them say naive poor white people things: 'Man, Donald Trump’s gonna go to Washington, and he’s gonna fight for us.'

Meanwhile I’m standing there thinking in my mind: 'You are poor. He’s fighting for me.'"

Trump pushed through the same tax breaks for rich people and big corporations that swamp Republicans always go for. He just did it while eating Big Macs so he'd look more like a man of the people.

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publius_x's avatar

Even though I am on Team TERF with Dave - and thought he was great as AhChoo in Men in Tights - I don't go to him for political analysis. The money and weed gets in the way of his thinking.

Of course Trumps tax cuts helps rich people. But the SALT cap actually did stick it to very wealthy people in select states, while filling the federal fisc.

The point of Trump's election from his supporters was NOT the policies. It was the man who was freed (by personal wealth and fame) from the constraints of political status quo culture to say and do things that nobody who always needs donors (and votes) can't do. One day when the book is written, we will see that the biggest issue with Trump was that he scared the wrong people. Or right people, depending on your point of view.

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james p mc grenra's avatar

Trumty's tax cut, did help workers and the top 10% income earners, do pay a heavy part of the taxes...i am thinking they pay about 40%.

Big companies are allowed heavy tax deductions, because they invest back into the economy. To change the tax laws, you'll have to re-due congress and that is heavy, because you will be messing with Their Income, they derive from First Hand Info, you get the second hand info.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

Can't have it both ways. Can't say Trump was fighting for the little guy and also defend his trickle down economic policies.

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james p mc grenra's avatar

Miles.....well done and i'm sure, to a point, it is correct.

The only thing worse than understanding politics 1/2 way. would be to understand IT wholly.

To understand "IT" wholly, one must buy into the storefront show of foolish studies by a subculture in our society that accepts the Afgan demented debacle, the Boarder ignorance, the

shut down of fossil fuel while giving Russia full open fuel service to Europe...on and on...forget about the debt.

Anyhow, that ability for Jim Mack to Understand "IT" (politics fully), you are so right..he just can not, it is a wont. thanks

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NCMaureen's avatar

No, progressives are the true racists. They are dividing this country on race lines. They think it’s still the 60s. Listen to a black scholar, John McWhorter, who takes apart CRT.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

I'm a fan of John McWhorter; I'm not a fan of conservatives pretending it's only the left that has developed a problem with authoritarianism.

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NCMaureen's avatar

Conservatism and authoritarianism are opposites, sir. Today, the old concept of classical liberalism—-live and let live, maximum freedom for everyone, individualism—is embraced by no one except conservatives. The authoritarians have always been on the left— Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hitler. And now the Biden administration is filled with them. Inside every “liberal” is an authoritarian screaming to get out. Well, they are out.

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Lightwing's avatar

Right. I am guessing you don't apply that "maximum freedom for everyone" to women seeking abortions as well, right? Everyone gets to be free except pregnant women whose bodies are owned by society/government and everyone else gets to tell them what to do with them and that's not authoritarian. Got it.

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james p mc grenra's avatar

Real nice...Freedom, always , if that women wants to demobilize her own children, lets say at least up to 3 or 4 years old, give Her that right, that is her body, good for you...Lightwing. Maybe they make her sick, or cost too much, i get that...go girl.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

Not to mention immigration. An approach of "maximal freedom for all individuals" would mean any *individual* born in Mexico or Central America should be 100% free to pack their bags and move to the US, no questions asked.

Surely, if conservatives completely eschew all forms of collectivism, they would hate the idea of national borders, as nation-states are a collectivist concept.

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james p mc grenra's avatar

NC...love IT, nice , to the point. Declarative.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

That's the go-to talking point on Fox News, sure. Over on MSNBC, of course they say the opposite of fascism is liberalism, with liberal meaning woke. Hiter being the ultimate right-winger, obviously, but with Mussolini typically thrown in there.

Of course, fascism and authoritarianism are only ever right-wing phenomena (just ask Vox - they literally put out an article saying there's no such thing as left-wing authoritarianism).

Like I said, both side have their bullshit talking points covering up their increasingly illiberal tendencies. Your problem is you can only see through the bullshit on one side, but not the other.

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NCMaureen's avatar

I refer you to Prof Steven Hicks who will educate you on the leftist nature of Hitler and Mussolini. The Nazis were the national socialist party and Mussolini was a devout Marxist. Both got their intellectual inspiration from the German philosophers who aspired to collectivism. Classical liberalism, now known as conservatism, derives from the British philosophers, where individualism was the foundation for everything. Nothing about “individualism” in Nazi Germany or fascist Italy. Educate yourself, sir, you have swallowed the leftist koolaid.

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miles.mcstylez's avatar

That's not education; that's propaganda of the sort that would make even MSNBC embarrassed. The Nazis had to take out communists as their greatest rivals, and they rallied support by being the "only ones standing up to communism". Ditto for Mussolini having Communists as his greatest enemies.

Fascism is left wing the way libertarianism is left wing, i.e. not at all. While we're at it, why don't we call the Tea Party a left-wing socialist movement?

The left has to own Stalin and Pol Pot; the right has to own Hitler and Mussolini. To try and put all the bad guys on one side of the political spectrum means you're not just drinking right-wing Koolaid; you're mainlining it straight into your veins.

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NCMaureen's avatar

And just because the Nazis fought the commies doesn’t mean one was right and one was left. They were both left. The Germans were nationalist socialists and the commies had a one-world vision of a global socialist utopia.

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NCMaureen's avatar

No, listen to Steven Hicks. You will learn you are wrong. You can’t even use terms like “right” and “left” when referring to Germans, Italians and Russians of the 20th century. They don’t make sense in those contexts. The point of differentiation is collectivists vs. individuals. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao—-all collectivists. All flavors of socialists. Fascism was Italian socialism. Naziism was German socialism. Communism was international socialism. In all these systems the value of the individual was erased for the good of the collective. In conservatism, the individual’s right are supreme.

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