I find it funny how states making their own abortion laws gets characterized as a “backlash to Dobbs,” seeing as the ruling in Dobbs…supported states making their own abortion laws.
I find it funny how states making their own abortion laws gets characterized as a “backlash to Dobbs,” seeing as the ruling in Dobbs…supported states making their own abortion laws.
Yep. Since libs preempted the democratic process for 50 years, people working out abortion policy at the state level is going to be long and messy. Unfortunately it’s likely to (already is) lead to more extreme laws on both sides, even though public opinion is (and has been for decades) clearly in the middle (Europe style 12-15 weeks with regulations, heavily restricted after that).
GOP was always going to pay a price for Dobbs, but I think fixing that mistake is well worth it. I want to see more federalism - let CA and NY be as insane as they want, but let other states do the opposite. Sadly we’ve a long way to go restoring the balance of state/federal power.
I’m canadian and my wife repeated it, I sent her some reading to understand that the Supreme Court did nothing but return the issue to the states, where are doing what the majority wants, available abortion to a certain point.
The hyperventilating on the left wing media (90-95% of it) is simply another way of stealing elections
Misinformation, hiding information, this all contributes to stolen elections.
A billboard I saw this week said, I Won’t Let Him Tell Me What To Do about the Child He’s Not Carrying and featured a man in a suit with a bulging abdomen (pregnant? I guess). I was astounded by the acknowledgement that what is carried is a child.
No one who believes in the sanctity of life has to kill that annoying person at work who keeps eating their pudding. Those who believe differently don't want to be forced to keep working with that guy.
Exactly! Or the guy who parks in your spot everyday or the person who cut you off on the highway or the person who had an affair with your spouse. This could go on and on with Anonymous' logic!
Widespread Republican support of 12- or 15-week abortion limitations, with exceptions for rape, medical emergencies, and fetal abnormality, would be the perfect way to take the offense instead of defense position. Force Democrats to explain why they don't think that position is reasonable (most Americans think it is).
The reality is that the complete-ban people are going to vote Republican regardless. They cannot be allowed to dictate policy that is contrary to what most Americans support.
I'm of the mind that this lawsuit in MS was brought all of the way to the Supreme Court to dump Roe in favor of the states so that the Democrats would force the Republicans into exactly what happened this Midterm cycle. Why else would you bring it to SCOTUS knowing that with that majority, they would overturn it. It was 15 weeks in MS already!
I think the Dems played the Republicans and are laughing all of the way to ..... (I'll save my thought on that one.)
LOL. Got us. It's a massive conspiracy that goes like this: Those same wily Dems also conspired to put Donald Trump in the White House with Mitch McConnell as the Senate Majority Leader who eliminated the SC nominee filibuster, and we also manipulated Mitch into leaving open that seat for Trump to fill by refusing to hear Obama's nominee for the vacant seat that opened at the start of Obama's final year in Office (and supplied him with the twisty logic about election years). We also tricked Trump into nominating candidates from the (Soros run, obviously) Federalist Society of judges which was basically a pre-cleared list of pro-life justices who committed to repealing Roe - a position authentically held by absolutely no conservative or Republican ever, unless they were tricked into it by those tricksy Democrats ; P Following the repeal of Roe that no Republicans ever wanted to happen and that Democrats tricked them into believing they did, Democrats then manipulated Republicans in multiple states to begin passing the most extreme abortion restrictions possible while fooling them about public support for, and convinced Republicans to also muse about the potential for a national abortion ban should they have the opportunity, and that such talk would not possibly, at all, figure into the midterm elections so make sure to take the most extreme position to the right of public opinion in the leadup to the elections - haha fooled you! ; P (The maybe GOP House will surely find this plan detailed out on Hunter Biden's laptop!)
Or - the Republican Right got exactly what it's strategized for about the last 40 years to put into place a Supreme Court majority that would overturn Roe. The fact that it's turned out to be a wee bit of a political problem for them is something that was pretty easy foreseeable, and yet oddly un-planned for despite the high probability of the repeal from the moment the Dobbs case was initiated almost two years ago as soon as the 6-3 court became a reality, that you might have thought the Republicans might have started to think ahead about what they were going to do with the car they were about to catch, that that they tried to catch for 40 odd years, and the complete lack of restraint that so many Republican run states demonstrated in the immediate aftermath to swoop in with bans that don't even have majority support in *red states* was something they did, all by themselves, to themselves.
Social conservatives in red states began enacting "trial" laws on the hopes a challenge to one would make it to the Supreme Court's then 5-4 majority to force a ruling over Roe. Again, you're acting as though it was somehow unintentional or undesirable to that this case, or any case, was going to result in Roe's reversal by the machinations of the Republican Party to get that majority for that purpose (among other desired rulings), and that the placement of specifically the last three judges wasn't intended to bring about that outcome - nope, it was those clever Democrats!
The GOP has been openly strategizing on the Supreme Court for several decades. It's amazing that during all that time they never stopped to think about what happens after, or if they did, that they couldn't have conceived of a backlash. Also, no one forced the Republican led states in the aftermath of the Dobbs ruling to rush in extreme bans. Why couldn't *they* stick with the 15 week ban? Arguably, if states hadn't rushed forward with total bans with no/few exceptions, it may not have bitten them as hard in the backlash.
It was RBG who long said Roe was bad law. It was only a matter of time for Roe to be overturned and returned to its rightful place...the states. We all know SCOTUS does not make law. RBG, best friends with Scalia (who my law professor brother taught with for many years) both knew the original Roe decision federalizing a state's rights' issue was bad precedent.
So again, why did the litigants sue a state that had a globally accepted 15 week ban on abortion? It ALL starts there.
{"The GOP has been openly strategizing on the Supreme Court for several decades." You'll have to articulate an explanation for this! I can't make heads nor tails of it.}
The GOP, and people like me, did stop and think about what happens next; fewer babies are killed before they are born.
The citizens of states elect their officials who will make law. You don't like the law, move to another state or work from within to change the law. That's how our government ought to operate.
Yeah but RBG never championed its overturn either. Big difference. She would have upheld it on precedent.
Who cares? The point is that those laws were put into place for the purpose of being challenged - social conservatives absolutely wanted a trial balloon law that would make it to the conservative SC majority. To pin this on some Democratic conspiracy, I'm sorry, is just sounding like a refusal to accept the consequences for what conservatives put into motion for a long time with this as the end goal, and that social conservatives on this issue have not won public opinion over whatsoever.
And again, I would ask - why didn't Republican states stop at the 15 week ban post-Dobbs (and as much as dislike DeSantis, he was smart to keep Florida's law at 15 weeks, notice how he performed in a state that is still fairly socially libertine, particularly around Miami)? If they had, I have a feeling the backlash would have been more muted. The fact that they went all in on total bans with no exceptions in many states, or allowed the "trigger laws" they passed as virtue signals before Roe's repeal was a distinct possibility, indicates they were not cognizant of public response, or had way, way overestimated their degree of support for the total ban/no exception position. And basically, regardless of where the public is on limitations, they don't trust the GOP with the issue because of the extreme way so many states went to, immediately, post-Dobbs.
"The citizens of states elect their officials who will make law. You don't like the law, move to another state or work from within to change the law. That's how our government ought to operate.": Are you willing to accept, then, the verdicts of citizens in states like KS, KY and MI that all rejected the extreme pro-life position?
You are speaking as those the GOP is a monolith. None of your argument actually points to the very fact that the states now decide this and that has nothing to do with the GOP. Every state leadership believes they are representing their constituents. And if they get that wrong, they are ousted at the next election. Roe should never have been federal law and the "GOP" didn't bring that suit. You need to understand that.
"Yeah but RBG never championed its overturn either. Big difference. She would have upheld it on precedent." You are very ignorant of the the role of SCOTUS justices. They are NEVER to champion anything. It's precisely why you see them rarely interviewed and when they are, they will only speak of law that was already upheld or challenged by them. They don't conjecture because a case might come before them and are unwilling to jump the shark. That is why SCOTUS is so critical to our government system.
"Are you willing to accept, then, the verdicts of citizens in states like KS, KY and MI that all rejected the extreme pro-life position?" My own state voted for the same rotten governor who represents only those in a few areas and is for late term abortion. If you look at the map, it was mostly red but for the university cities. So be it. We'll work harder to change it in the next election. That's how our system works.
The Dobbs decision didn’t repeal any rights. It said, in essence, that abortion isn’t a federal issue, it’s a state issue. Period. Nowhere does the Constitution mention it, thus removing it from federal aegis. We are (supposed to have) a government of “enumerated [read: limited] powers.” The power we seem to lack is restraint from overreach and mission creep.
I agree and think this is why DeSantis has a good shot. That is where Florida has landed on the issue. We need compromise on this issue so the country can move on.
I find it funny how states making their own abortion laws gets characterized as a “backlash to Dobbs,” seeing as the ruling in Dobbs…supported states making their own abortion laws.
Yep. Since libs preempted the democratic process for 50 years, people working out abortion policy at the state level is going to be long and messy. Unfortunately it’s likely to (already is) lead to more extreme laws on both sides, even though public opinion is (and has been for decades) clearly in the middle (Europe style 12-15 weeks with regulations, heavily restricted after that).
GOP was always going to pay a price for Dobbs, but I think fixing that mistake is well worth it. I want to see more federalism - let CA and NY be as insane as they want, but let other states do the opposite. Sadly we’ve a long way to go restoring the balance of state/federal power.
Backlash is simply a term the left uses to convince people that the backlash was justified, because there was a perceived social injustice.
Only stupid people believe this.
I think I’ve said this 100s of times since Dobbs - it’s NOT a backlash, it’s exactly what was meant to happen.”
Saw that lots on cnn and elsewhere.
I’m canadian and my wife repeated it, I sent her some reading to understand that the Supreme Court did nothing but return the issue to the states, where are doing what the majority wants, available abortion to a certain point.
The hyperventilating on the left wing media (90-95% of it) is simply another way of stealing elections
Misinformation, hiding information, this all contributes to stolen elections.
Not surprising when you’ve got the plebs running around like Chicken Little, shrieking that “the Supreme Court just OUTLAWED ABORTION!!!”
I’ve noticed this too. It’s not a backlash; it’s what Dobbs was intended to enable.
A billboard I saw this week said, I Won’t Let Him Tell Me What To Do about the Child He’s Not Carrying and featured a man in a suit with a bulging abdomen (pregnant? I guess). I was astounded by the acknowledgement that what is carried is a child.
No one who believes in the sanctity of life has to have an abortion. Those who believe differently don’t want to be forced to be pregnant.
"Forced to be pregnant"?
No one who believes in the sanctity of life has to kill that annoying person at work who keeps eating their pudding. Those who believe differently don't want to be forced to keep working with that guy.
Exactly! Or the guy who parks in your spot everyday or the person who cut you off on the highway or the person who had an affair with your spouse. This could go on and on with Anonymous' logic!
Widespread Republican support of 12- or 15-week abortion limitations, with exceptions for rape, medical emergencies, and fetal abnormality, would be the perfect way to take the offense instead of defense position. Force Democrats to explain why they don't think that position is reasonable (most Americans think it is).
The reality is that the complete-ban people are going to vote Republican regardless. They cannot be allowed to dictate policy that is contrary to what most Americans support.
100% agree on this. Why the IS wants to align its abortion laws with North Korea and not the Europe is beyond me.
I'm of the mind that this lawsuit in MS was brought all of the way to the Supreme Court to dump Roe in favor of the states so that the Democrats would force the Republicans into exactly what happened this Midterm cycle. Why else would you bring it to SCOTUS knowing that with that majority, they would overturn it. It was 15 weeks in MS already!
I think the Dems played the Republicans and are laughing all of the way to ..... (I'll save my thought on that one.)
LOL. Got us. It's a massive conspiracy that goes like this: Those same wily Dems also conspired to put Donald Trump in the White House with Mitch McConnell as the Senate Majority Leader who eliminated the SC nominee filibuster, and we also manipulated Mitch into leaving open that seat for Trump to fill by refusing to hear Obama's nominee for the vacant seat that opened at the start of Obama's final year in Office (and supplied him with the twisty logic about election years). We also tricked Trump into nominating candidates from the (Soros run, obviously) Federalist Society of judges which was basically a pre-cleared list of pro-life justices who committed to repealing Roe - a position authentically held by absolutely no conservative or Republican ever, unless they were tricked into it by those tricksy Democrats ; P Following the repeal of Roe that no Republicans ever wanted to happen and that Democrats tricked them into believing they did, Democrats then manipulated Republicans in multiple states to begin passing the most extreme abortion restrictions possible while fooling them about public support for, and convinced Republicans to also muse about the potential for a national abortion ban should they have the opportunity, and that such talk would not possibly, at all, figure into the midterm elections so make sure to take the most extreme position to the right of public opinion in the leadup to the elections - haha fooled you! ; P (The maybe GOP House will surely find this plan detailed out on Hunter Biden's laptop!)
Or - the Republican Right got exactly what it's strategized for about the last 40 years to put into place a Supreme Court majority that would overturn Roe. The fact that it's turned out to be a wee bit of a political problem for them is something that was pretty easy foreseeable, and yet oddly un-planned for despite the high probability of the repeal from the moment the Dobbs case was initiated almost two years ago as soon as the 6-3 court became a reality, that you might have thought the Republicans might have started to think ahead about what they were going to do with the car they were about to catch, that that they tried to catch for 40 odd years, and the complete lack of restraint that so many Republican run states demonstrated in the immediate aftermath to swoop in with bans that don't even have majority support in *red states* was something they did, all by themselves, to themselves.
Are you back from your fantastic voyage yet?
If so, just explain why a lawsuit against an abortion law that had a 15 week ban was necessary. This shouldn't take two long paragraphs.
Social conservatives in red states began enacting "trial" laws on the hopes a challenge to one would make it to the Supreme Court's then 5-4 majority to force a ruling over Roe. Again, you're acting as though it was somehow unintentional or undesirable to that this case, or any case, was going to result in Roe's reversal by the machinations of the Republican Party to get that majority for that purpose (among other desired rulings), and that the placement of specifically the last three judges wasn't intended to bring about that outcome - nope, it was those clever Democrats!
The GOP has been openly strategizing on the Supreme Court for several decades. It's amazing that during all that time they never stopped to think about what happens after, or if they did, that they couldn't have conceived of a backlash. Also, no one forced the Republican led states in the aftermath of the Dobbs ruling to rush in extreme bans. Why couldn't *they* stick with the 15 week ban? Arguably, if states hadn't rushed forward with total bans with no/few exceptions, it may not have bitten them as hard in the backlash.
It was RBG who long said Roe was bad law. It was only a matter of time for Roe to be overturned and returned to its rightful place...the states. We all know SCOTUS does not make law. RBG, best friends with Scalia (who my law professor brother taught with for many years) both knew the original Roe decision federalizing a state's rights' issue was bad precedent.
So again, why did the litigants sue a state that had a globally accepted 15 week ban on abortion? It ALL starts there.
{"The GOP has been openly strategizing on the Supreme Court for several decades." You'll have to articulate an explanation for this! I can't make heads nor tails of it.}
The GOP, and people like me, did stop and think about what happens next; fewer babies are killed before they are born.
The citizens of states elect their officials who will make law. You don't like the law, move to another state or work from within to change the law. That's how our government ought to operate.
Yeah but RBG never championed its overturn either. Big difference. She would have upheld it on precedent.
Who cares? The point is that those laws were put into place for the purpose of being challenged - social conservatives absolutely wanted a trial balloon law that would make it to the conservative SC majority. To pin this on some Democratic conspiracy, I'm sorry, is just sounding like a refusal to accept the consequences for what conservatives put into motion for a long time with this as the end goal, and that social conservatives on this issue have not won public opinion over whatsoever.
And again, I would ask - why didn't Republican states stop at the 15 week ban post-Dobbs (and as much as dislike DeSantis, he was smart to keep Florida's law at 15 weeks, notice how he performed in a state that is still fairly socially libertine, particularly around Miami)? If they had, I have a feeling the backlash would have been more muted. The fact that they went all in on total bans with no exceptions in many states, or allowed the "trigger laws" they passed as virtue signals before Roe's repeal was a distinct possibility, indicates they were not cognizant of public response, or had way, way overestimated their degree of support for the total ban/no exception position. And basically, regardless of where the public is on limitations, they don't trust the GOP with the issue because of the extreme way so many states went to, immediately, post-Dobbs.
"The citizens of states elect their officials who will make law. You don't like the law, move to another state or work from within to change the law. That's how our government ought to operate.": Are you willing to accept, then, the verdicts of citizens in states like KS, KY and MI that all rejected the extreme pro-life position?
You are speaking as those the GOP is a monolith. None of your argument actually points to the very fact that the states now decide this and that has nothing to do with the GOP. Every state leadership believes they are representing their constituents. And if they get that wrong, they are ousted at the next election. Roe should never have been federal law and the "GOP" didn't bring that suit. You need to understand that.
"Yeah but RBG never championed its overturn either. Big difference. She would have upheld it on precedent." You are very ignorant of the the role of SCOTUS justices. They are NEVER to champion anything. It's precisely why you see them rarely interviewed and when they are, they will only speak of law that was already upheld or challenged by them. They don't conjecture because a case might come before them and are unwilling to jump the shark. That is why SCOTUS is so critical to our government system.
"Are you willing to accept, then, the verdicts of citizens in states like KS, KY and MI that all rejected the extreme pro-life position?" My own state voted for the same rotten governor who represents only those in a few areas and is for late term abortion. If you look at the map, it was mostly red but for the university cities. So be it. We'll work harder to change it in the next election. That's how our system works.
I think you may be right. On the other hand, Abortion activists never saw an abortion limitation they didn't want to overturn.
😔
That's definitely one option. Sadly, there are many more. If one was so macabre, they could make a drinking game out of it.
The Dobbs decision didn’t repeal any rights. It said, in essence, that abortion isn’t a federal issue, it’s a state issue. Period. Nowhere does the Constitution mention it, thus removing it from federal aegis. We are (supposed to have) a government of “enumerated [read: limited] powers.” The power we seem to lack is restraint from overreach and mission creep.
It absolutely did repeal rights. If it's a state issue, it's not a constitutionally protected right.
You are correct, it was never a constitutionally protected right.
In some states, it extended rights to 10’s of thousands of humans.
And as for constitutionally protected, it was as Roe B Wade was as bad a ruling as Dread Scott.
I agree and think this is why DeSantis has a good shot. That is where Florida has landed on the issue. We need compromise on this issue so the country can move on.
The problem is that Sen. Graham proposed something like that. It was reported and trumpeted as a complete ban.
I know. But he is an easy person to shoot down. Getting the majority on board with it would be harder to dismiss.