I’m going to depart from the curmudgeonly responses to this article. The Swift phenomenon is, to me, a remedy to the polarized, angry dominant culture of nihilism and lack of meaning and purpose. We are witnessing society-wide increased crime, drug addiction, loneliness and despair that has increased chronic illness and clinical anxiety …
I’m going to depart from the curmudgeonly responses to this article. The Swift phenomenon is, to me, a remedy to the polarized, angry dominant culture of nihilism and lack of meaning and purpose. We are witnessing society-wide increased crime, drug addiction, loneliness and despair that has increased chronic illness and clinical anxiety and depressing in all age groups. As trite as it may sound, Taylor Swift brings people together in community; something our culture desperately needs. Kids need something to be optimistic about. Adults do, too.
Regardless of the quality of Swift’s music, it’s the mass bow to the heavens the writer and the breathless millions who follow, after all, just a singer, treating her every breath, gesture, and act of generosity as divine - that is what is concerning. It reminds me of lemmings falling off the cliff in droves, in search of something they know not of. And after they fall metaphorically, they come back for more, seeking more of that magic elixir. This is not a story of the power of a phenomenon- it’s more of a story of humankind’s impulse to blindly go to where everyone else is going - nothing new here. Only sad.
This largely how I come away from this feeling...sure, we need something to unite on. But are we really, actually united by her? Mmmmmm...nah. I think she's talented for sure but I don't think what we need is another idol.
A remedy is something that solves something. A concert makes a person feel good during the concert, and maybe the next day or so. And then possibly for years, they'll smile for a moment when they think of it.
Yes! This. I wasn't a huge fan, liked a couple of her songs but this article opened my eyes. I agree with you! We need more unification like this. Just pure joy.
Thank you Lara. Everyone seems grumpy this morning. It’s a Saturday. We can sip some coffee and enjoy a pleasant read about how a person’s music could have power to bring community/a sense of togetherness to an increasingly polarized society.
I'd like to know more about her. I think. I hear she's very popular, but I couldn't name a single song she's done nor to my knowledge have I ever heard one. Actually, I'm sure I have but didn't recognize it.
Frankly, I'm a bit prejudiced; in my coming-of-age era, at least we had Vietnam protest and anti-establishment songs to give us a sense of purpose: Four Dead in O-Hio, For What It's Worth, White Rabbit, the list goes on. To my eye, other than the Talking Music (Rap - you can't spell CRAP without Rap), the only "coming together" being promulgated by and for yutes is "Let's close our eyes and all get together for bread-and-circus, c'os we can't take stress and if we open them to see, we might get triggered."
This is a comment I can relate to. Though I am familiar with her early country music-y songs. I thought she had serious talent and was surprised by some of the harsh criticism. She produced numbers that are now as iconic as the ones you noted.
My kids grew up hearing them. Then she went pop star and I heard less of her music even though she was increasingly more popular. I’ve seen her in a few commercials but didn’t know who she was until my kids pointed her out. I’m happy for her success though I was put off by her buy-in for the leftist narrative. With all the music apps I make playlists for my self that don’t have a single song of hers. Not that I dislike them or her. The last music icon I got fuzzies over was Bono but he became another great traitor to the peasant population by attending WEF meetings.
I’m glad to hear how so many people find some positive solidarity, even if it’s for a glittery super-star. I still think insanely expensive show tickets leave too many fans out of the loop. I’d be really impressive if a person of her obscene wealth were to give a show that had minimally expensive opportunities for folks who can’t really afford to spend the equivalent of a months worth of groceries on them. That would be truly impressive. Otherwise, I think stars today , including Tay-Tay are beyond the pale of self-serving narcissism.
Jim, I don't know your age, but I'm 52. I am intrigued as well, but realize that her music is not speaking directly to us. The same was true for Elvis and the Beatles, Chuck Berry, and Bob Dylan. Institutions and conservatives railed and wrung their hands over these acts. My Holy Grail was Metallica’s first four albums and Guns and Roses. I belatedly discovered punk rock because it was literally kept from me growing up as a fundamentalist Christian.
Some of the songs have deep meaning, and some don't. The Trio (Dolly Parton, Emmylou Harris, and Linda Ronstadt) performed Neil Young's song "After the Gold Rush" and then asked Neil Young about the meaning of the song. Young's response was something along the lines of, "I have no idea what it means. I was stoned when I wrote it." Kind of like all the insights you and your friends have when you are toasted, which if you write some of them down, look like complete nonsense later.
No I’m not. He was born on July 30, 1956, graduated from North Central High School in Indianapolis in 1974, and from Ball State in Muncie in 1978. Finished law school at U of Miami in 1981. We got married in 1982 and celebrated our 40th anniversary last year by taking the kids and their spouses to Canada on a Tauck tour of the Canadian Rockies.
I’m 4 years older than my husband and graduated college in 1974, law school in 1977. We met at work. Now married 41 years with 3 kids in their 30’s. My 67 year old husband is newly retired from being the President and CEO of a financial services agency. As for my musical tastes, I’m a big fan of Sting. Hubby has generously bought me tickets to several Sting concerts. I’m roughly 10 years older than the typical Sting fan.
I’ve read a lot of your posts in this thread and you’re definitely a curmudgeon. As for “disagreeing with someone on a type of music generally for kids”, well you’ve posted that if someone’s children, or maybe it was grandchildren, like Taylor Swift, they should disinherit them. So if the music is meant for children and the children like said music, that’s grounds for cutting them out of the will?
Dictionary definition of curmudgeon:
“An ill-tempered person full of stubborn ideas or opinions”
Example sentence: “John Doe’s old age and stubborn aversion to new ideas make him a curmudgeon of a candidate.”
It’s clear from your other posts that you’re old or oldish (I’m guessing in your 70’s) and you definitely hate new things for you like pop music, don’t consider entertainers in general and Taylor Swift in particular to be “artists”, insist no one will remember her in 30 years, etc. Sounds like you’re full of stubborn ideas and opinions and are pretty ill-tempered to me.
Well first, thanks for the attention. Neither my wife nor my kids would bother to do that.
Sadly, you either have no sense of humor or I failed to use giggly emojis. Of course I didn't mean they should disinherit their kids! I don't recall which post that was, but if you revisit it with humor you'd feel better.
As for my comments about the short shelf life of Taylor Swift, that is true of all pop entertainers. That's why they are called "pop," as in popular. And what's poplar changes over time obviously.
As a collector of everything from James Brown to Eminem, my credentials are in order. For the rest, one needn't be 70, 60, 50, 40 or 30 to think its all junk.
I don’t believe you. That would be contrary to everything else you’ve posted in this thread. Like Brown is a “safety school”. Snobby and opinionated. I assume you went to school in Cambridge?
I went to a school better than Brown, yes. And for the current-dollar cost of $340,000, if one hasn't opinions, what's the point of being educated? I don't do bland, sorry.
PS -- you have opinions too, that I'm a forgiving sort:)
I didn’t ask you if you went to a school better than Brown. I asked if you went to school in Cambridge. So, Harvard it is. Not better, except maybe in your opinion and the algorithms of the US News ratings.
“…thanks for the attention. Neither my wife nor my kids would bother to do that.” Now that I can believe.
a lot of Swift music would have fit in perfectly in the late '70s early '80s, it's got a sort new wave feel, kinda like blondie or all those "THE" bands - the cars / the clash / the police / the knack / the pretenders
the sort of english pop thing of the '90s too like Blur kinda
nostalgia is cool and but she's right up there with those acts. i bet if you could corner Chrissie Hynde and quiz her about Taylor Swift's songs she's probably a big fan just like we are big fans of Chrissie's amazing catalog
She sells more than those acts did, even adjusted for inflation. She is more popular and famous. She is prolly nicer than all those guys. Spend 5 minutes with Chrissie, she is not nice, she does not want to be. Without the benefit of a single sniff, I can guarantee she smells better, on average, than Joe Strummer ever did one day in his sadly brief life.
I am talking about talent and relevance and maybe only their talent and relevance to me.
I have heard many Taylor Swift songs, the only one I know the name of is "shake it off" and in 5 years I won't remember it. I will remember "London Calling" I will remember "The Guns of Brixton", I will remember "Rock the Casbah"
Tripping balls and incoherent I know every word to "Brass in Pocket"
how is it circular logic? i haven't changed my stance a jot.
Talent is always subjective, but relevance isn't especially. Swift is more relevant to her fans than Chrissie was to hers quite obviously by ticket sales and as you point out, popularity and fame.
as John Lennon said a half century ago, people always prefer the music and art of their high school and college days and won't ever leave it. Louis Armstrong was a guy who loudly detested bebop and cool and it was obvious that Ol' Satch was envious because fashion had passed him by. He may still be the greatest trumpet though. Dude was on fire in his times
It is circular logic because you credit nostalgia, your point, to prove your point.
I am not nostalgic for those days, they sucked - A long distance call to Cali cost a small fortune, the freaking Love Boat was on TV, and you could not get a good street taco in the Midwest.
I cannot be nostalgic for Louie, I was not there, but I listen to his music, would pay my last nickel to hear him live, and when we share a smoke in glory we won't be nostalgic for this life.
I feel that way because he and a lot of others, did the alchemy of turning their experience into vibration that echos forever. It has had a profound effect on me and countless others.
I feel the same way about Mozart or Brahms. It is not nostalgia, not that there's anything wrong with nostalgia BTW.
it isn't circular logic to use the same point when it is penetrating.
we weren't talking about the country in general, but about the music of a particular time and its similarities to Taylor Swift's, which are considerable.
However, it was easy to find high quality tacos in the midwest if one knew where to look, watching tv has always been a dead end waste of life, and the price of telephone service was a function of the cost of providing it, then as now.
She is talented for sure, but I’m sorry in no way would her music have fit in the late 70’s. Nice article though and amazing the numbers her tour is posting.
A few years back I subscribed to a book club that sent me a nicely-bound hardback classic once a month. One of the first was Carroll's "Through The Looking Glass." There is a whole body of knowledge analyzing this book, all its analogies, its metaphors, etc.. If memory serves, he was a mathematician and logician, and the turns, twists, gyres and gimbals in his stories are references to external things. Kind of like knowing a joke on the world. It's certainly over my head.
my white rabbit story. i was on a small place flying to sfo from phoenix. grace and the crew were on my plane. after we deplaned with the Airplane and picked up our luggage. guess what car picked up Grace. yup. a white rabbit
I’m going to depart from the curmudgeonly responses to this article. The Swift phenomenon is, to me, a remedy to the polarized, angry dominant culture of nihilism and lack of meaning and purpose. We are witnessing society-wide increased crime, drug addiction, loneliness and despair that has increased chronic illness and clinical anxiety and depressing in all age groups. As trite as it may sound, Taylor Swift brings people together in community; something our culture desperately needs. Kids need something to be optimistic about. Adults do, too.
Regardless of the quality of Swift’s music, it’s the mass bow to the heavens the writer and the breathless millions who follow, after all, just a singer, treating her every breath, gesture, and act of generosity as divine - that is what is concerning. It reminds me of lemmings falling off the cliff in droves, in search of something they know not of. And after they fall metaphorically, they come back for more, seeking more of that magic elixir. This is not a story of the power of a phenomenon- it’s more of a story of humankind’s impulse to blindly go to where everyone else is going - nothing new here. Only sad.
This largely how I come away from this feeling...sure, we need something to unite on. But are we really, actually united by her? Mmmmmm...nah. I think she's talented for sure but I don't think what we need is another idol.
Agreed.
Sort of like college graduates today. Trained in the Progressive Faith to think only sanctified thoughts.
Walking in goose step.
A remedy is something that solves something. A concert makes a person feel good during the concert, and maybe the next day or so. And then possibly for years, they'll smile for a moment when they think of it.
That is not a remedy.
I wholeheartedly agree. In the extremely polarized world we live in, it's good to have one thing we can all agree on.
Yes! This. I wasn't a huge fan, liked a couple of her songs but this article opened my eyes. I agree with you! We need more unification like this. Just pure joy.
Thank you Lara. Everyone seems grumpy this morning. It’s a Saturday. We can sip some coffee and enjoy a pleasant read about how a person’s music could have power to bring community/a sense of togetherness to an increasingly polarized society.
I'd like to know more about her. I think. I hear she's very popular, but I couldn't name a single song she's done nor to my knowledge have I ever heard one. Actually, I'm sure I have but didn't recognize it.
Frankly, I'm a bit prejudiced; in my coming-of-age era, at least we had Vietnam protest and anti-establishment songs to give us a sense of purpose: Four Dead in O-Hio, For What It's Worth, White Rabbit, the list goes on. To my eye, other than the Talking Music (Rap - you can't spell CRAP without Rap), the only "coming together" being promulgated by and for yutes is "Let's close our eyes and all get together for bread-and-circus, c'os we can't take stress and if we open them to see, we might get triggered."
This is a comment I can relate to. Though I am familiar with her early country music-y songs. I thought she had serious talent and was surprised by some of the harsh criticism. She produced numbers that are now as iconic as the ones you noted.
My kids grew up hearing them. Then she went pop star and I heard less of her music even though she was increasingly more popular. I’ve seen her in a few commercials but didn’t know who she was until my kids pointed her out. I’m happy for her success though I was put off by her buy-in for the leftist narrative. With all the music apps I make playlists for my self that don’t have a single song of hers. Not that I dislike them or her. The last music icon I got fuzzies over was Bono but he became another great traitor to the peasant population by attending WEF meetings.
I’m glad to hear how so many people find some positive solidarity, even if it’s for a glittery super-star. I still think insanely expensive show tickets leave too many fans out of the loop. I’d be really impressive if a person of her obscene wealth were to give a show that had minimally expensive opportunities for folks who can’t really afford to spend the equivalent of a months worth of groceries on them. That would be truly impressive. Otherwise, I think stars today , including Tay-Tay are beyond the pale of self-serving narcissism.
Jim, I don't know your age, but I'm 52. I am intrigued as well, but realize that her music is not speaking directly to us. The same was true for Elvis and the Beatles, Chuck Berry, and Bob Dylan. Institutions and conservatives railed and wrung their hands over these acts. My Holy Grail was Metallica’s first four albums and Guns and Roses. I belatedly discovered punk rock because it was literally kept from me growing up as a fundamentalist Christian.
Some of the songs have deep meaning, and some don't. The Trio (Dolly Parton, Emmylou Harris, and Linda Ronstadt) performed Neil Young's song "After the Gold Rush" and then asked Neil Young about the meaning of the song. Young's response was something along the lines of, "I have no idea what it means. I was stoned when I wrote it." Kind of like all the insights you and your friends have when you are toasted, which if you write some of them down, look like complete nonsense later.
My husband is 67 and he loves Taylor Swift. He’s been a fan of hers since she started and owns a lot of her CDs.
You're lying about his age.
No I’m not. He was born on July 30, 1956, graduated from North Central High School in Indianapolis in 1974, and from Ball State in Muncie in 1978. Finished law school at U of Miami in 1981. We got married in 1982 and celebrated our 40th anniversary last year by taking the kids and their spouses to Canada on a Tauck tour of the Canadian Rockies.
I’m 4 years older than my husband and graduated college in 1974, law school in 1977. We met at work. Now married 41 years with 3 kids in their 30’s. My 67 year old husband is newly retired from being the President and CEO of a financial services agency. As for my musical tastes, I’m a big fan of Sting. Hubby has generously bought me tickets to several Sting concerts. I’m roughly 10 years older than the typical Sting fan.
You are one crabby curmudgeon.
Disagreeing with someone on a type of music generally for kids does not make one a curmudgeon.
I’ve read a lot of your posts in this thread and you’re definitely a curmudgeon. As for “disagreeing with someone on a type of music generally for kids”, well you’ve posted that if someone’s children, or maybe it was grandchildren, like Taylor Swift, they should disinherit them. So if the music is meant for children and the children like said music, that’s grounds for cutting them out of the will?
Dictionary definition of curmudgeon:
“An ill-tempered person full of stubborn ideas or opinions”
Example sentence: “John Doe’s old age and stubborn aversion to new ideas make him a curmudgeon of a candidate.”
It’s clear from your other posts that you’re old or oldish (I’m guessing in your 70’s) and you definitely hate new things for you like pop music, don’t consider entertainers in general and Taylor Swift in particular to be “artists”, insist no one will remember her in 30 years, etc. Sounds like you’re full of stubborn ideas and opinions and are pretty ill-tempered to me.
Well first, thanks for the attention. Neither my wife nor my kids would bother to do that.
Sadly, you either have no sense of humor or I failed to use giggly emojis. Of course I didn't mean they should disinherit their kids! I don't recall which post that was, but if you revisit it with humor you'd feel better.
As for my comments about the short shelf life of Taylor Swift, that is true of all pop entertainers. That's why they are called "pop," as in popular. And what's poplar changes over time obviously.
As a collector of everything from James Brown to Eminem, my credentials are in order. For the rest, one needn't be 70, 60, 50, 40 or 30 to think its all junk.
Anyway, thanks for trying!
Sorry. I was teasing!
I don’t believe you. That would be contrary to everything else you’ve posted in this thread. Like Brown is a “safety school”. Snobby and opinionated. I assume you went to school in Cambridge?
Ann, broken heart here. You don't believe...?
I went to a school better than Brown, yes. And for the current-dollar cost of $340,000, if one hasn't opinions, what's the point of being educated? I don't do bland, sorry.
PS -- you have opinions too, that I'm a forgiving sort:)
I didn’t ask you if you went to a school better than Brown. I asked if you went to school in Cambridge. So, Harvard it is. Not better, except maybe in your opinion and the algorithms of the US News ratings.
“…thanks for the attention. Neither my wife nor my kids would bother to do that.” Now that I can believe.
a lot of Swift music would have fit in perfectly in the late '70s early '80s, it's got a sort new wave feel, kinda like blondie or all those "THE" bands - the cars / the clash / the police / the knack / the pretenders
the sort of english pop thing of the '90s too like Blur kinda
Her name does not belong in the same sentence as Clash or the Pretenders, come on man!
lol hey i'm just telling it like it is.
nostalgia is cool and but she's right up there with those acts. i bet if you could corner Chrissie Hynde and quiz her about Taylor Swift's songs she's probably a big fan just like we are big fans of Chrissie's amazing catalog
She sells more than those acts did, even adjusted for inflation. She is more popular and famous. She is prolly nicer than all those guys. Spend 5 minutes with Chrissie, she is not nice, she does not want to be. Without the benefit of a single sniff, I can guarantee she smells better, on average, than Joe Strummer ever did one day in his sadly brief life.
I am talking about talent and relevance and maybe only their talent and relevance to me.
I have heard many Taylor Swift songs, the only one I know the name of is "shake it off" and in 5 years I won't remember it. I will remember "London Calling" I will remember "The Guns of Brixton", I will remember "Rock the Casbah"
Tripping balls and incoherent I know every word to "Brass in Pocket"
that's nostalgia right there, powerful as raw grain alcohol straight out of the bottle
That's circular logic right there, the most powerful elixir to those subject to it's effect.
how is it circular logic? i haven't changed my stance a jot.
Talent is always subjective, but relevance isn't especially. Swift is more relevant to her fans than Chrissie was to hers quite obviously by ticket sales and as you point out, popularity and fame.
as John Lennon said a half century ago, people always prefer the music and art of their high school and college days and won't ever leave it. Louis Armstrong was a guy who loudly detested bebop and cool and it was obvious that Ol' Satch was envious because fashion had passed him by. He may still be the greatest trumpet though. Dude was on fire in his times
It is circular logic because you credit nostalgia, your point, to prove your point.
I am not nostalgic for those days, they sucked - A long distance call to Cali cost a small fortune, the freaking Love Boat was on TV, and you could not get a good street taco in the Midwest.
I cannot be nostalgic for Louie, I was not there, but I listen to his music, would pay my last nickel to hear him live, and when we share a smoke in glory we won't be nostalgic for this life.
I feel that way because he and a lot of others, did the alchemy of turning their experience into vibration that echos forever. It has had a profound effect on me and countless others.
I feel the same way about Mozart or Brahms. It is not nostalgia, not that there's anything wrong with nostalgia BTW.
it isn't circular logic to use the same point when it is penetrating.
we weren't talking about the country in general, but about the music of a particular time and its similarities to Taylor Swift's, which are considerable.
However, it was easy to find high quality tacos in the midwest if one knew where to look, watching tv has always been a dead end waste of life, and the price of telephone service was a function of the cost of providing it, then as now.
She is talented for sure, but I’m sorry in no way would her music have fit in the late 70’s. Nice article though and amazing the numbers her tour is posting.
I was there in the late 70's early 70's too. If she had been around then we would see her selling sheets on Fox News today.
we can disagree about that and still have a great day!
Absolutely! Nice to take a break and discuss something like this.
no not really at all.
blondie and the clash don't sound like the cars or the police do they? yet they were all new wave. it's more subtle than a clone
A few years back I subscribed to a book club that sent me a nicely-bound hardback classic once a month. One of the first was Carroll's "Through The Looking Glass." There is a whole body of knowledge analyzing this book, all its analogies, its metaphors, etc.. If memory serves, he was a mathematician and logician, and the turns, twists, gyres and gimbals in his stories are references to external things. Kind of like knowing a joke on the world. It's certainly over my head.
and therefore....?
my white rabbit story. i was on a small place flying to sfo from phoenix. grace and the crew were on my plane. after we deplaned with the Airplane and picked up our luggage. guess what car picked up Grace. yup. a white rabbit