This breaks my heart. As a teenager in the late 90's my list of "can't wait" to dos was endless. I was at the DMV on my 15th birthday applying for my learner's permit, and again in my 16th birthday taking my driving test. I wasted no time to enjoy every right of passage we traditionally associate with teenage life. Fast forward to today:…
This breaks my heart. As a teenager in the late 90's my list of "can't wait" to dos was endless. I was at the DMV on my 15th birthday applying for my learner's permit, and again in my 16th birthday taking my driving test. I wasted no time to enjoy every right of passage we traditionally associate with teenage life. Fast forward to today: my 15-year-old son is perfectly content to spend a weekend in solitude. I had to beg him for weeks to study for his learner's permit, and since getting said permit 6+weeks ago, I've convinced him to go out for one driving lesson, which he begrudgingly agreed to provided it lasted no more than 10 minutes. I keep telling myself it's a "phase" but more and more I think it's a generational disease.
It’s a really strange thing. I turned 16 in 2004 and had my license on my 16th birthday. I grew up on a farm, though, and driving meant freedom and the only line to my friends. I was also the last of the kids in CO that only had to have a permit for 6 months and didn’t have to take drivers ed. I do think that the cost and time commitment of drivers ed is prohibitive - or at least used as an excuse - for some families.
That said, all of my younger siblings got drivers licenses when they were 16, if not quite on their birthday. When I was teaching high school in the 2010s, I thought it was really strange how many kids didn’t seem to worry about getting a license. That was in a fairly rural area, too. Seems it’s only gotten more common.
I love to drive. I don’t understand the point of a self-driving car - why buy a car and never drive it yourself? - and I feel sorry for kids that don’t see the value in driving.
I hope you are not giving him any money, "Allowance" or paying him for doing chores?
Kids need jobs. They need to work. So so so important. Mine are elementary school but required to do chores at home. And no way will I ever give them any money, for anything. I want them to start working as soon as they can. I started baby-sitting age 9
Mine was the same but once he finally got his license he was out of here. They all go to the mountains and 24 hour diners and stay out late doing stupid stuff. Of course I get mad and set boundaries but secretly I’m glad they’re making mistakes and learning lessons that don’t involve remote controls and virtual reality.
My son rode his boogie board on a flooded stream on a golf course under bridges and such at night. He also went with friends to parking structures at 2 am to skateboard in them. I never found out until much later. I'm glad.
My eldest son is 36 and doesn’t drive. My middle son is 31 and has just passed his driving test. My youngest son doesn’t drive and he’s 29. None of them live at home, and the two younger ones have children of their own. They don’t spend all their time at home either. They live a couple of hours from me, by train. I just recently visited my 31 year old and my granddaughter. We’re planning another visit soon. None of us feel particularly disadvantaged not having a car. I’m happy about it actually, I’m no longer a sitting target for everyone that wants to make a quick buck - gas stations, insurance companies, local authorities, parking garage companies, but I recognise I’m in the minority. My wife and I get just about everywhere we want, albeit sometimes a little slower. I never have to worry about DUI either, although my wild party all-night drinking days are long past, I can enjoy a few drinks with dinner when we go out and not worry.
someone has to get you to the train station..what do you do with your grandchildren when you visit. stay at home.. no zoos.. no playgrounds. .. no trips to interesting places. and those "quick bucks". it is called employment
Our son lives in Berlin. The public transportation is good, but I wonder about elderly people. If you're healthy and strong, public transportation is great, but when walking becomes challenging or you have to drag your groceries home in a little hand cart two or three times a week, what happens then? Do all elderly people get warehoused in large facilities or do the death panels kick in?
I think it’s sad that so many people don’t have access to good public transportation. I actually live in suburban London, England. I have bus service 24/7. I am a 15-20 minute ride from work; my wife about 40 minutes. There is very limited parking where I work and my wife would have to pay a daily rate to park near her workplace. We are just lucky, and I realise that not everyone has the option of not having a car.
I just moved from Seattle and although they are increasing ways to get around publicly they also are dealing with significant increases in crimes on public transportation.
I'd never in a million years subject myself to the danger. The local news even had a segment where they FILMED a homeless guy smoking fentanyl on one bus and it's become a thing lately. The other commuters just sat there quietly while the guy poisoned the air around them.
Add to this all the crime in other big cities on public transportation and you just have to wonder why anyone would choose that over owning their own car (or even ride sharing)
Is the risk of public transit greater than the risk of driving? The risk of dying in a car crash is 13 per 100,000 people per year. The NYC subway has 84 million trips per month. Assuming the same people ride every day twice a day equals 6 million unique riders. There were 88 deaths on the subway last year so your odds are 8.8 per 100,000. Couldn't find injury stats per person for both so couldn't do a comparison there.
Maybe that's true but while I'm taking higher chances in my own car I don't have to keep a weary eye on everyone around me and don't have to put up with the smells of unwashed people or their rantings at the ceiling.
Oh, I fully agree driving is MUCH more pleasant. I can have my music blasting and the AC on. However, there are just sometimes it's not worth it. For example, driving from Manhattan to Brooklyn can take more than 90 minutes sometimes while the subway is just 15.
The UK is around 60% the size of CA. Plus Europe has long had more efficient mass transit. For a time I drove 60 miles one way to work, no-one in the UK is doing that.
nope. no one is doing that. in fact in the UK they are now implementing "15 min cites" where everyone can stay within the "circle". the population is so much easier to control when yhou know where they are at all times. the UK ?? cctv EVERYWHERE and I mean everywhere. the UK citizens are complacent and compliant..and very aware of class
There are some that do that, but most would use rail transport. The US once had a comprehensive rail network but passenger numbers fell away a lot earlier there, than in Europe. Railroad mileage in the US reached its peak in 1916, whereas in the UK it was some twenty years later. In a few areas of the UK, some of the lost lines have been re-instated. Many conurbations in the UK have serious traffic problems, due to high density of cars, similar to some areas of the US.
Gasoline has been less expensive in the US than in the UK or most of Europe, but in my own experience, when I lived in the US, my gas bill was at least as high as in the UK, as I had to drive everywhere. Here, i can walk to local 7-11, my nearest bar, the doctors, dentist, and local park. Land use here is much denser.
The solitude thing is really weird, isn’t it? My 16-year-old son spends far less time in person with his peers than I did. (They’re all on Discord.) He does hang out with them after school for band, stage crew, chess club, etc., but I think they’ve done one spontaneous activity not related to school in two years.
My son did just get his license, so here’s hoping!
At least he got his license & does activities in person, that's good
Does he have a job yet? Kids need jobs. Mine are elementary school but required to do chores at home. And no way will I ever give them any money, for anything. I want them to start working as soon as they can. I started baby-sitting age 9
He got a work permit at 15 for a seasonal job last fall. It was a great experience, but he’s going to concentrate on getting his Eagle Scout rank this summer. (That’s a job in itself.)
I started baby sitting at 11, cleaning apartments at a retirement home at 13.
And yes, I think the two main problems are overscheduled kids, especially sports, which gets Soviet-style intense around middle school, and electronics.
I agree: over scheduling kids, activities & electronic
mine are elementary school but we don't schedule them for anything or do any activities. Friends of ours do, but I'm personally not into driving around activities. Not something I want to do. We just send them out to play in the yard or play in the basement if bad weather. Or go see if neighbors are outside. I plan to avoid smartphones & will give them simple (no-data/wifi) phones in jr high. I limit screen time to 1 hr/day max.
Is there anything we can do to improve this? Last year, I partnered with the mom of one of his friends, and we would kick one out of the house to go fishing, or play yu-gi-oh at the other's house. They had a great time, but neither would pursue it on his own. I think my son is worried he'll look "weird" if he's the one to suggest he and his friends actually do something. He's not a timid guy at all, but when it comes to social relations, I think teenagers don't have the context we used to, where we'd just go to someone's house and hang out till dinner.
yea that's so strange. I used to just ride my bike around with friends, all day, doing who knows what, random spontaneous things & my parents had no idea where I was...lol...and I'm in my 30s now
maybe because kids these days have so many planned activities? Mine are elementary school but we usually just tell them "go play in the yard by yourselves" or "go play in the basement" if weather is bad. We'll go for a walk & see if anyone is out, spontaneous. I don't pay for any scheduled activities for them. I'm not interested in being a soccer mom/hockey mom.
This breaks my heart. As a teenager in the late 90's my list of "can't wait" to dos was endless. I was at the DMV on my 15th birthday applying for my learner's permit, and again in my 16th birthday taking my driving test. I wasted no time to enjoy every right of passage we traditionally associate with teenage life. Fast forward to today: my 15-year-old son is perfectly content to spend a weekend in solitude. I had to beg him for weeks to study for his learner's permit, and since getting said permit 6+weeks ago, I've convinced him to go out for one driving lesson, which he begrudgingly agreed to provided it lasted no more than 10 minutes. I keep telling myself it's a "phase" but more and more I think it's a generational disease.
It’s a really strange thing. I turned 16 in 2004 and had my license on my 16th birthday. I grew up on a farm, though, and driving meant freedom and the only line to my friends. I was also the last of the kids in CO that only had to have a permit for 6 months and didn’t have to take drivers ed. I do think that the cost and time commitment of drivers ed is prohibitive - or at least used as an excuse - for some families.
That said, all of my younger siblings got drivers licenses when they were 16, if not quite on their birthday. When I was teaching high school in the 2010s, I thought it was really strange how many kids didn’t seem to worry about getting a license. That was in a fairly rural area, too. Seems it’s only gotten more common.
I love to drive. I don’t understand the point of a self-driving car - why buy a car and never drive it yourself? - and I feel sorry for kids that don’t see the value in driving.
I hope you are not giving him any money, "Allowance" or paying him for doing chores?
Kids need jobs. They need to work. So so so important. Mine are elementary school but required to do chores at home. And no way will I ever give them any money, for anything. I want them to start working as soon as they can. I started baby-sitting age 9
It was in the last century when a boy with a car was deemed to be "dangerous" by parents of teen girls.
Two teenaged boys; getting them out of the house, much less behind the wheel of a car, was/is like pushing a rope.
They gotta get jobs. Put those kids to work! :) as my husband says
Mine was the same but once he finally got his license he was out of here. They all go to the mountains and 24 hour diners and stay out late doing stupid stuff. Of course I get mad and set boundaries but secretly I’m glad they’re making mistakes and learning lessons that don’t involve remote controls and virtual reality.
You give me hope!
soon you too will get new gray hairs every time you hear about the newest dumb thing they did haha
My son rode his boogie board on a flooded stream on a golf course under bridges and such at night. He also went with friends to parking structures at 2 am to skateboard in them. I never found out until much later. I'm glad.
My eldest son is 36 and doesn’t drive. My middle son is 31 and has just passed his driving test. My youngest son doesn’t drive and he’s 29. None of them live at home, and the two younger ones have children of their own. They don’t spend all their time at home either. They live a couple of hours from me, by train. I just recently visited my 31 year old and my granddaughter. We’re planning another visit soon. None of us feel particularly disadvantaged not having a car. I’m happy about it actually, I’m no longer a sitting target for everyone that wants to make a quick buck - gas stations, insurance companies, local authorities, parking garage companies, but I recognise I’m in the minority. My wife and I get just about everywhere we want, albeit sometimes a little slower. I never have to worry about DUI either, although my wild party all-night drinking days are long past, I can enjoy a few drinks with dinner when we go out and not worry.
that's great, eyebee..you continue to do you and let the rest of us make our own choices..
I hear that, but if I didn’t have a car, it’s bike or walk where I live. I do enjoy both, but not for groceries.
someone has to get you to the train station..what do you do with your grandchildren when you visit. stay at home.. no zoos.. no playgrounds. .. no trips to interesting places. and those "quick bucks". it is called employment
I’m with you. Personally I don’t like to drive. I used to hate it in fact! And I’ve structured my life so I don’t have to do it much.
I don’t mind it so much now that I don’t have a commute. Commutes suck! Can we all agree on that?
Now when I drive it’s on a road trip to somewhere nice or down the road to the grocery.
Anyway just sharing my perspective, not trying to tell people not to drive.
All I can say is you must live in NYC or San Fran where people use public transportation. Trying living in TX or SD without a car.
Our son lives in Berlin. The public transportation is good, but I wonder about elderly people. If you're healthy and strong, public transportation is great, but when walking becomes challenging or you have to drag your groceries home in a little hand cart two or three times a week, what happens then? Do all elderly people get warehoused in large facilities or do the death panels kick in?
Try living almost anywhere in CA without a car.
I think it’s sad that so many people don’t have access to good public transportation. I actually live in suburban London, England. I have bus service 24/7. I am a 15-20 minute ride from work; my wife about 40 minutes. There is very limited parking where I work and my wife would have to pay a daily rate to park near her workplace. We are just lucky, and I realise that not everyone has the option of not having a car.
How did you travel during the pandemic? Elbow-to-elbow with 30 sniffling, coughing people?
I just moved from Seattle and although they are increasing ways to get around publicly they also are dealing with significant increases in crimes on public transportation.
I'd never in a million years subject myself to the danger. The local news even had a segment where they FILMED a homeless guy smoking fentanyl on one bus and it's become a thing lately. The other commuters just sat there quietly while the guy poisoned the air around them.
Add to this all the crime in other big cities on public transportation and you just have to wonder why anyone would choose that over owning their own car (or even ride sharing)
Is the risk of public transit greater than the risk of driving? The risk of dying in a car crash is 13 per 100,000 people per year. The NYC subway has 84 million trips per month. Assuming the same people ride every day twice a day equals 6 million unique riders. There were 88 deaths on the subway last year so your odds are 8.8 per 100,000. Couldn't find injury stats per person for both so couldn't do a comparison there.
Maybe that's true but while I'm taking higher chances in my own car I don't have to keep a weary eye on everyone around me and don't have to put up with the smells of unwashed people or their rantings at the ceiling.
To each their own Scott
Oh, I fully agree driving is MUCH more pleasant. I can have my music blasting and the AC on. However, there are just sometimes it's not worth it. For example, driving from Manhattan to Brooklyn can take more than 90 minutes sometimes while the subway is just 15.
fascinating info, Scott d...keep riding that mass transit, nobody is going to stop you...
The UK is around 60% the size of CA. Plus Europe has long had more efficient mass transit. For a time I drove 60 miles one way to work, no-one in the UK is doing that.
nope. no one is doing that. in fact in the UK they are now implementing "15 min cites" where everyone can stay within the "circle". the population is so much easier to control when yhou know where they are at all times. the UK ?? cctv EVERYWHERE and I mean everywhere. the UK citizens are complacent and compliant..and very aware of class
I don’t think the poster is criticizing you or saying you shouldn’t drive, just sharing his perspective.
I didn’t take offense. I appreciate his perspective.
There are some that do that, but most would use rail transport. The US once had a comprehensive rail network but passenger numbers fell away a lot earlier there, than in Europe. Railroad mileage in the US reached its peak in 1916, whereas in the UK it was some twenty years later. In a few areas of the UK, some of the lost lines have been re-instated. Many conurbations in the UK have serious traffic problems, due to high density of cars, similar to some areas of the US.
Gasoline has been less expensive in the US than in the UK or most of Europe, but in my own experience, when I lived in the US, my gas bill was at least as high as in the UK, as I had to drive everywhere. Here, i can walk to local 7-11, my nearest bar, the doctors, dentist, and local park. Land use here is much denser.
rural life requires a car. rural life is being extinguished .. the UK has beautiful country side but you cannot see it without a car
It takes 3+ days to drive across the USA and only 1 to drive the width of the British Isles. Big, BIG difference!
Doesn’t it take 1 full day just to drive across Texas?
The solitude thing is really weird, isn’t it? My 16-year-old son spends far less time in person with his peers than I did. (They’re all on Discord.) He does hang out with them after school for band, stage crew, chess club, etc., but I think they’ve done one spontaneous activity not related to school in two years.
My son did just get his license, so here’s hoping!
At least he got his license & does activities in person, that's good
Does he have a job yet? Kids need jobs. Mine are elementary school but required to do chores at home. And no way will I ever give them any money, for anything. I want them to start working as soon as they can. I started baby-sitting age 9
He got a work permit at 15 for a seasonal job last fall. It was a great experience, but he’s going to concentrate on getting his Eagle Scout rank this summer. (That’s a job in itself.)
I started baby sitting at 11, cleaning apartments at a retirement home at 13.
And yes, I think the two main problems are overscheduled kids, especially sports, which gets Soviet-style intense around middle school, and electronics.
seasonal job & Eagle Scouts is great!
I agree: over scheduling kids, activities & electronic
mine are elementary school but we don't schedule them for anything or do any activities. Friends of ours do, but I'm personally not into driving around activities. Not something I want to do. We just send them out to play in the yard or play in the basement if bad weather. Or go see if neighbors are outside. I plan to avoid smartphones & will give them simple (no-data/wifi) phones in jr high. I limit screen time to 1 hr/day max.
The lack of spontaneous activities. So relate to that.
Is there anything we can do to improve this? Last year, I partnered with the mom of one of his friends, and we would kick one out of the house to go fishing, or play yu-gi-oh at the other's house. They had a great time, but neither would pursue it on his own. I think my son is worried he'll look "weird" if he's the one to suggest he and his friends actually do something. He's not a timid guy at all, but when it comes to social relations, I think teenagers don't have the context we used to, where we'd just go to someone's house and hang out till dinner.
yea that's so strange. I used to just ride my bike around with friends, all day, doing who knows what, random spontaneous things & my parents had no idea where I was...lol...and I'm in my 30s now
maybe because kids these days have so many planned activities? Mine are elementary school but we usually just tell them "go play in the yard by yourselves" or "go play in the basement" if weather is bad. We'll go for a walk & see if anyone is out, spontaneous. I don't pay for any scheduled activities for them. I'm not interested in being a soccer mom/hockey mom.
That makes me so sad ...... I am fearful for my grandchildren.
Me too. I may have to move to the Bay Area , they live there, just to teach them to be adventurers.