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Jay Covitz's avatar

Blake- your leaving America isn’t your betrayal of America...it’s America’s betrayal of you.

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Just me's avatar

Gordon, let us put some perspective on this American betrayal. Blake Flayton didn’t personally experience these acts of betrayal. We had a group of people in America’s past who couldn’t enter restaurants, hotels, theaters, and other public spaces like the front of the bus. There was a social group who wore sheets with holes cut in them to see out of, who would drag a human soul out of their home, find a tree, put a hangman’s noose over their head and Lynch them. In 1919 they had the red summer, where 64 Lynchings, Took place. A mere two years later, Thirty-five city blocks of America were destroyed by flames, 300 individuals died, and 800 were injured. Nine thousand human beings became homeless because of a terrorist act—location, Tulsa, Oklahoma, black Wall Street. Unlike Blake, these people couldn’t go to a place where America was protecting the land and the people who looked like them. Hate is ugly, and what Blake was describing is indeed hate, but he doesn’t belong to an exclusive club.

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Steven N.'s avatar

“There was a social group who wore sheets with holes cut in them to see out of, who would drag a human soul out of their home, find a tree, put a hangman’s noose over their head and Lynch them.”

They were called Democrats. Remember that.

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Just me's avatar

Steven, today’s Republicans, have more in common with the deep South Democrats of the mid-19th century than they do with Pres. Lincoln’s Republican Party of the same era, in reality, the two parties have switched places since the mid-19th century. Lincoln’s party was the original party of social justice and big government; that’s why you’re comment is illiterate silliness!

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Steven N.'s avatar

The Democrats, with help from the KKK, help fund Planned Parenthood. An organization to pluck weeds from a beautiful garden. The weeds were black people. The Democrats still hold Planned Parenthood in extreme regard.

Democrats are pushing for resegregation.

Democrats are openly anti-Semitic on college campuses.

The Democrats hold racial determinism as settled fact/theory.

Your lack of understanding boggles the mind.

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Just me's avatar

Steven, for all this insanity, because all this gibberish drivel can only be insanity; what you say about Democrats is unverifiable. But please do prove me wrong. I’m waiting with bated breath for your reply. :-)

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Today's woke Democrats are the party of Critical Racist Theory discrimination on the basis of skin color. Democrats are also still into "segregation forever." The only difference between Democrats now and Gov. George Wallace (D, AL) then, is the justification. Democrats still want blacks to be separated from other races.

Please explain how Sen. Tim Scott (R, SC) and LT. Gov. Winsome Sears (R, VA) got elected in state wide races if Republicans are racist rather than issue driven. Sen. Scott has been elected twice by a 65% white electorate.

Your version of history is an Orwellian rewrite. Both sides of my family were Abolitionist Republicans since at least the 1850's. Republicans wanted to give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule, so they could support themselves. Democrats want to prevent school choice and permit rampant crime to make minorities dependent on government forever.

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Just me's avatar

Douglas, saying Democrats are the party of critical race theory is beyond hyperbole; you stepped into the realm of fantasies. Saying Democrats want Blacks to be separated from other races is absurd. Talking about Republicans being elected in the South as proof of something is nonsensical. You’re quite right about the 40 acres and a mule, but the assassination of Lincoln pretty much destroyed that idea. Your whole post is straight out of Lala land!

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Steven N.'s avatar

The Democrats are 100% captured by Critical Theory. So much so they don’t even know what a woman is and (falsely) claim to be the party of women.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Democrats assassinated Lincoln, not Republicans. To say Democrats disapprove of Critical Racist Theory is the height of denial, proving it ain't just a river in Egypt. What are all the white free days and blacks only dorms and spaces, if not segregation?

Why aren't Sen. Scott and Lt. Gov. Sears proof of Republicans welcoming all races? Senators Kamala Harris and Corey Booker are supposed to be symbols of Progressive advancement, are they not? There's no reciprocity?

Your whole post is denial, not reality. Democrats don't have a good argument. They just yell racism and censor opposing views.

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Just me's avatar

Douglas, your hyperbole is misguided and over-the-top. What the hell does a Democrat assassinating Lincoln have to do with today’s Democrats? You said: “…woke Democrats are the party of Critical Racist Theory….” Democrats don’t approve or disapprove of “…critical race theory (CRT), intellectual and social movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of color. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal institutions of the United States insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans. Critical race theorists are generally dedicated to applying their understanding of the institutional or structural nature of racism to the concrete (if distant) goal of eliminating all race-based and other unjust hierarchies.” It’s a theory. Where have these “...white free days…” Happened, and how often? Democrats are demanding black-only dorms! Senators Scott and Kamala Harris’s statement is simply illogical.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

At this point, we're no longer making points of any value for other readers. It's a waste of time to continue.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

In the 1930's, my grandmother leased appartments or owned houses in her own name, because my grandfather couldn't. My grandmother was a Methodist Minister's daughter. My grandfather was Jewish. Restrictive covenants kept my grandfather from renting or buying in certain places until the Civil Rights Act of 1964. There were reasons Jews backed the Civil Rights movement. They were discriminated against too, just not as badly.

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Just me's avatar

Douglas, it’s never made any sense to me, basing a prejudice upon someone’s genetics; it’s like saying people with green eyes can’t be trusted.

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Comprof's avatar

And they could always pretend/pass as white, if needed.

But hey, that inability to rent or buy is a pain!

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Love that victim card. Who was the last Jewish president? We've already had a Catholic and a black president! Are you saying there's been no progress since 1860, 1919 or 1964? Or are you just saying that we need racism against Asians and straight white males to make up for bad inner city union schools?

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Comprof's avatar

Also Obama is not black, he's biracial. So that was very ignorant and revealing statement. See the way it works in America is that whiteness is the pure, untainted default - and anything that disturbs/infects it, even one drop, you become that ethnicity.

So, plenty of bad schools in rural areas and the "outer cities" as well, so might want to broaden your perspective a bit.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Obama called himself the first black president. That was good enough for me, but not for you?

Democrats fight school choice no matter where the schools are, or how bad they are. Union campaign bucks are more important to them than educating children. But you're OK with that?

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Comprof's avatar

Yep. Because from the moment he was born - society treated him, engaged w/him and defined him by blackness - from grade school on - doesn't change ANYTHING about the 1 drop rule. If the mother is white, father is Latino - kid is Latino. Father white, mother is Asian - kid is Asian.

No, if people want to home school and teach their kids Jesus rode a dinosaur - have at it. But it's really laughable that parents who were struggling with 5th grade math during the pandemic are going to take that on. As far as charter schools - not really a fan of my tax dollars going to a religious school and many longitudinal studies have shown that they don't have any better outcome (test scores, levels, etc.) than other schools

Hmmm...maybe someone should open a charter school madrassa that your tax dollars can pay for...you're OK with that?

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Look for the union label on your kid's forehead. If it isn't there, your kid may not have been indoctrinated in social justice and socialism. The kid might actually be able to read, write and do math. Horrors!

Milwaukee College Prep is a typical group of charter schools. The Democrat Jewish businessman who founded it and runs it will be absolutely shocked to find out he's running Christian religious schools. Whenever other Milwaukee charter schools start to fail, they ask him to take over, because he is successfully running all the schools he has. He's a personal friend. In Wisconsin, charter schools were the result of bipartisan cooperation between black Democrats and Republicans in the state legislature.

You're an ignorant bigot.

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Comprof's avatar

Don't want my tax dollars going to fund religious charter schools, Jewish, Christian or otherwise. Congrats on knowing a Jewish owner of charter schools. So "F" ing what? Majority are Christian. Yeah, bet he's making a lot money. Would be interesting to see what the test scores are.

Charter schools are nothing more than Koch brothers-backed attempts to indoctrinate and price out less economically viable families from getting their kids an education.

Yeah, the words like "diversity, equity, inclusion" send you into rage...but I'm the ignorant bigot? Lol. Go ban some books written by black people or something.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

You just confirmed that you're not only racist, but anti-semitic. Congratulations.

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Comprof's avatar

Lol...yeah, that damn history....always giving people the "victim card."

Yes, there's been progress thanks to social justice warriors who dragged America kicking and screaming every step of the way.

Other people have dealt/deal with racism, you can deal with it, too. You're not a special little snowflake.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 outlaws discrimination on the basis of race. Colorblind meritocracy is the law. Deal with your own illegal racism.

Democrats are the party of slavery, secession, Jim Crow, lynching and "segregation forever." According to woke rules, such a history is unforgivable, so Democrats should be canceled for it.

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Comprof's avatar

There is no illegal racism against white people. Sorry. Cause it's been "outlawed" since 1964 - just like we've outlawed drunk driving - so that never happens anymore....lol....

Such past history is not unforgivable...but really, what do you care? You don't even want it taught in schools.

Colorblind meritocracy exist in only 2 places. U.S. Military and professional sports.

Lol....well for someone so well versed in U.S. Apartheid pre 1964/1965 - you should be well versed on where the Dixiecrats went after the 1964/1965. You should also know about Nixon, Lee Atwater, etc. and the GOP Southern Strategy to appeal to racial grievance of white southerners, as well as Reagan's trip to MS, where he talked about "states rights" his later comments about "Welfare Queens" and "Big Black Bucks buying T-bone steaks" with food stamps, GWB Sr. "Willie Horton," Trumps Muslim ban, Mexicans are rapists, Charlottesville, etc... etc...

So, yes - in the 1800s the Democrats were the party of slavery and succession. Now, in 2022, Republicans/GOP fly that past flag of slavery and succession and try to protect the iconic American monuments to traitors and demand that schoolchildren be taught that there were was nothing "morally wrong" with the Klan, Segregation, etc.

You want to keep running your mouth? I'll be more than happy to oblige.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."

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Comprof's avatar

You banning this book, too?

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

I'm quoting it to show how leftists redefine words to win arguments. Your side cancels Twitter accounts, censors news and social media. Democrats think the Bill of Rights is an a la carte menue that they can choose to ignore. Freedom of speech and religion, not so much. Warrants that specify the things to be seized: "Any goverment and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2020" that covers cocktail napkins with notes on them.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Thank you Justice Comprof for your interpretation of the law, upheld by nobody. Your assertions are backed by no admissible evidence. Slavery is unconstitutional. Republicans drafted and passed the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It would not have passed otherwise. Robert Byrd, KKK, stayed a Democrat.

Being against criminals who happen to be black is common sense, not racist. The victims of black criminals are almost entirely black. Democrats favor policies that create an explosion of violent crime.

You can keep running your mouth, but you're a waste of my time. I think I've shown your arguments are fabricated, like the Steele Dossier and Alfa Bank accusations, and not worth any serious person's time. Project your racism all you want. Calling 74 million voters racists ain't a good way to win votes, especially when it requires a new definition of the word "racist."

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Comprof's avatar

You've shown nothing to be fabricated. Everything I said about S. Strategy, Reagan, etc. Is factually accurate.

Also, you can miss me with your fake, BS "concern" about black victims of crime. Which was a completely irrelevant point, but seems to be standard talking point.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

So by your own admission, you don't care about black victims of crime, or high crime rates. Wow.

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Comprof's avatar

Hillary was right...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/08/14/trump-and-racism-what-do-the-data-say/amp/

Oh, yes...certainly don't want to call the MAGAt "racist." Perish the thought! I mean, considering how decent, civil and respectful they are to others, that would be terrible!

Want more research/data? I can do this all day.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

Brookings is an unbiased bipartisan think-tank, since when? They find whatever they want to find! If conservatives were a protected class, Brookings, and almost every College and University in the country, would lose an adverse impact lawsuit in a summary judgment.

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Douglas Proudfoot's avatar

I think you're misreading Kilmead's comment, and refusing to own where the KKK came from.

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Kevin Morrison's avatar

Sadly, true. You go with many regrets and many good wishes, Blake.

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Steven N.'s avatar

I found it telling he never experienced this hatred in “red” conservative and Republican Scottsdale just the “blue” liberal Democrat controlled campus.

Elon was right about the Democrat Party.

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QX's avatar

He might not have experienced it but let's not pretend the alt_right aren't antisemitic either with their endless conspiracy theories about the Jewish global world order going around and around online.

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Steven N.'s avatar

I agree. But the hundreds of alt-right are far outnumber by the outright racist attitudes of millions of left wing college kids.

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Terry's avatar

True, but the "alt right", so-called, are a small fringe, maybe a few thousand or a hundred thousand, out of the entire country. The anti-Semitic Left is in the millions and are far more violent. The fringe Right are anti-government, anti-Semitic, racist, etc., but don't represent any kind of broad based movement, despite Democrat efforts to paint them as the biggest threat to the country.

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Original woman's avatar

Exactly, Exactly. This is who Biden wants us to think all the Republican, Trump supporters are. He has no fk’ing idea we are also life long Democrats who he and all the neo-Democratic -socialist-Marxist abandoned and will proudly support ANY Republican, even and especially TRUMP!

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QX's avatar

That I agree with. The alt_right nut-jobs are just morons talking on the fringes on the internet. Their biggest threat is one might go crazy and go shoot a bunch of people. Beyond that they're not even worth attention, although liberal MSM would like us to think all conservatives are like that. My only point is antisemitism is not unique to any political fraction. But as you say, on the left right now it's broad and threatening.

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Leah Rose's avatar

Yes, the “alt-right” have vanishingly little institutional influence, much less power. It is the regressive Left, flying under the (gaslighting) banner of “Progressive,” who has charge of the mainstream cultural and political institutions which advance their simmering antisemitism and insidious identarian religion.

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Caroline Bollinger's avatar

I’ll take a bigoted redneck from panola county, texas over a twisted leftist progressive who is okay with docs cutting off the breasts of teens, forcing toddlers to wear masks and labeling AP classes as racist. The redneck says things that aren’t politically correct but is mostly an honest and decent human. The latter overreact to the slightest insult while ignoring policies that harm the most vulnerable and disadvantaged members of society. The gaslighting is absolutely insufferable.

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Aimee Samana's avatar

Absolutely correct!

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Skinny's avatar

That’s the closest answer we have to get rid of Democrats simple truth

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Bruce Miller's avatar

Sorry, not "America's" betrayal of him.

The betrayal is by liberal and progressive Democrats who unleashed this madness..

Let's be very clear who's behind this.

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Original woman's avatar

This is fathomable. We are now living in a time in the U.S. where we are afraid to speak out for fear of repercussions.

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Original woman's avatar

Absolutely. We are many swinging right. vote for. Watch for it.

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Gregg Thompson's avatar

I think it’s strange that the author doesn’t see this as a failure of progressivism as well as a logical result of progressives’ stranglehold on education. More than 50% of America doesn’t think like the leftist morons he is bemoaning. Why not broaden his circle to include conservatives? He’d find more acceptance there.

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bernie davis's avatar

wrong- america has been invaded by those seeking to reestablish the ottoman empire. Jews are the disinformation and cover for this invasion.

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Zeke's avatar

Lets alos be clear, the Jewish vote is close to meaningless in every nation on earth. Either Jews make up such a small portion of society that it really only impacts local elections, or in 1 nation (Israel), it is the majority so there is no Jewish vote per se.

The inverse, though, is not true. In many nations, the Islamic and Israel-hating vote IS material. In places like England, Sweden, France, etc, that vote in a meaningful portion of the voter base and can be sufficient to swing elections.

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T Reid's avatar

No, a subset of America. Specifically, the leftist cultists and their orthodoxy which includes Anti-Semitism.

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Kevin Durant?'s avatar

Is it fair that corporations get tax breaks, Bruce???

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Timothy Kaluhiokalani's avatar

I think it’s clear from recent Common Sense articles and other outlets that way too many college campuses have become cesspools of progressive groupthink. Mr. Flayton can make it all about antisemitism but the Jewish persecution list he provides could certainly be expanded if he wants to buttress his reasoning for emigration. Maybe he should talk to a few devout Catholics who have had their churches firebombed because they believe abortion is a sin. Maybe he should talk to evangelical Christians who have been caricatured as inbred buffoons because they believe Jesus is their savior and had their churches shut down during Covid while rioters were free to rampage across our cities. Maybe he should speak with a few Mormons about how their ancestors were murdered and forced to flee their homes and trek across the country until they finally found sanctuary in Utah, all because they dared practice their religion. I’m sure that Buddhists, Hindus, and Muslims can all contribute equally disturbing stories.

The fact is, ALL religions are under assault and it seems to me counterproductive to bellyache about which one is being persecuted more. The Marxist left has been trying to exterminate religion on campus and elsewhere for decades because big government is their sanctioned religion and the protagonists Mr. Flayton lists are members of its congregation. Their religion demands absolute obedience and any alternative that promotes belief in a higher authority is one of the few things standing in their way.

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Michelle Miller's avatar

I understand your point. However, none of these groups experienced having 6 million of their people exterminated during World War II (while we non-Jews did nothing!) nor have these groups been targeted for persecution for 2000+ years because of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. It’s imperative that we read history so as not to repeat mistakes of the past. It’s MY Christian duty to support and protect my Jewish brothers and sisters. Peace be with you. Shalom.

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Timothy Kaluhiokalani's avatar

“none of these groups experienced having 6 million of their people exterminated during World War II (while we non-Jews did nothing!)”

There are credible reports that between one and three million Chinese Uyghurs and other mostly Muslim ethnic groups are being detained against their will in what China has labeled “re-education camps”. The US, UK, Canada have labeled it genocide, which is defined by international convention as the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. Their methods include forced mass sterilization of Uyghur women, separating children from their families and attempting to break up the cultural traditions of the group. Those who have escaped the camps have reported mass rape and sexual abuse and forced cheap (some would say slave) labor. It’s estimated that between 25,000 and 50,000 Uyghurs are killed annually for their organs to supply China’s growing transplant industry. We could debate what “we non-Jews” could have done sooner to stop the Holocaust but eventually, millions of non-Jews fought and died ending it and other assorted Nazi and Japanese atrocities.

If you're truly determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past, perhaps you have some suggestions on what we non-Muslims can do to stop the depravity being inflicted upon Uyghurs TODAY.

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Michelle Miller's avatar

Timothy, I can’t agree more with your point regarding the Chinese atrocities on the Uyghur people. I personally do what little I can in terms of not buying Chinese goods (supporting the CCP economy), writing my Congressman and Senator and through conversations trying to bring awareness of the horrendous situation of the Uyghur people. My reference to “doing nothing” was in regard to the fact that the US government knew about the extermination camps and the persecution of the Jewish people and did not make moves to greatly increase immigration possibilities for European Jews to the US. I realize this next statement is more emotional in nature, but largely the world stood by and watched.

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Mike R.'s avatar

I might make mention that there was also another 6 million Christians, intellectuals, clergy and those deemed politically incorrect by the regime who perished.

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Naomi's avatar

Yes obviously. A tremendous amount of people and horrors. But this article is about this guys experience in an American college and it’s not unique to him. It represents the current and future attitude of the younger generation. If only the younger generation understood the horrors of wars, if they were more informed, and if they knew more history they would have a much deeper understanding of the world and life itself, and they would be able to make better and wiser decisions, especially when they reach positions of power in the not so far future.

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Michelle Miller's avatar

Again Mike, I respect what you’re saying, however, I feel like it’s “what about-ism”. I am aware of the persecution of other classes of people in World War II. However, it pales in comparison! Approximately 2 out of every 3 European Jews were killed during World War II. The behavior of the Allied nations was disgraceful. They knew and did nothing. I vow to learn from history.

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Mike R.'s avatar

Sorry. I didn't mean to give that impression. My point is that everyone is in the crosshairs.

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Naomi's avatar

I appreciate your comment

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Naomi's avatar

Timothy, I wish I could agree with you but you are so off point here.

First of all this is a personal essay about his experience. This is not an article about what’s wrong with academia. Or which group is persecuted more.

Making less of antisemitism is something that happens all the time. It’s a very wrong point of view to take but when one hasn’t experienced it they can make that mistake.

Jews are the most persecuted group in the United States. By far. Jews are the target of 58% of all religiously motivated hate crimes in US. The number of incidents and attacks has skyrocketed and broken all records. Every single day just in Brooklyn NY people are attacked. Unfortunately it’s almost always by the same people and none of this is mentioned in the media, who barely reports it happening at all.

Being a student in a college that is part of a larger movement to get rid of religion is not the same thing as being a student who is personally ostracized and put in danger just for who they are. My son is headed to college soon and I am scared for his life and his physical well-being. All Jewish students heading to college at this very moment are in danger. You can’t really say the same for anyone else. Wether Mormon or Muslim. When the hamas in Gaza decide to send hundreds of missiles to Tel Aviv, Jews in the United States get attacked on the street. I urge you to learn more about what people have gone through in history and now, to try and understand what thousands of years of antisemitism feels like. Always being the scape goats and never knowing where the gauntlet is going to come falling from. I myself at 46 years old am the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. My two aunts were born before the war and went separately in to hiding as young children as did my grandparents. They were the “lucky” ones. Their life was never the same again. I have no doubt that the Person my mother is was greatly affected by her being raised In the shadow of all the trauma and affected who she became, how she raised me and who I became too. This is part of the fabric of our lives. To people who don’t know many Jews or just read the headlines it seems like just another group that is discriminated against. But that’s not the way it is. Unfortunately there are many peoples who are treated badly. But what’s happening to american Jews right now is a huge problem and when Jews get treated badly, it’s always a sign of more discrimination and violence to come for everyone else.

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Timothy Kaluhiokalani's avatar

The point of my original post, which clearly you missed, is that today’s antisemitism is only a symptom of a much larger strategy being employed by the left. The Holocaust didn’t start overnight. It took years of separating Jews from larger society, demonizing them and caricaturing them as less than human until it was acceptable for non-Jews to ignore their persecution. It’s a strategy that authoritarians like Hitler and Xi Jinping have employed for thousands of years and sorry, but Jews aren’t the only group it’s been employed against. Last night, President Joe Biden took to the stage and employed it once again. He ranted on about Donald Trump and Republicans who support him, declaring they “represent an extremism that threatens the very foundation of our Republic:”. While he hasn’t yet referred to them as “rats”, at least in public, it may be just a matter of time before he and his leftist allies go full Nazi. His authoritarian bona fides are already well established. His politicized JustUs Department labeled as domestic terrorists’ moms and dads who dared protest labeling their children racists because of their white skin. He ordered the firing of soldiers, nurses, and policemen who refused his decree and get vaccinated because they believed the “science” was flawed. His FBI collaborated with Facebook and other internet platforms into burying details of depravity and corruption contained in his son’s laptop to help swing an election and yet he claims its his political opponents who threaten our elections.

At the end of the day the real threat isn’t directed at any one religion or race. It’s the oppressor vs. the oppressed, the obedient vs. the rebellious, the blind vs. those who choose to see.

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Naomi's avatar

I would just like to add, that the reason most american Jews (especially the younger generation) didn’t experience that much discrimination in recent decades, is because they blended in, became Americanized and left their religion behind. They weren’t visibly Jewish and so their religion wasn’t as obvious to others. Many now have Christmas trees and more than 50 percent have married non Jews. (For the nazis this would not have mattered. They still sent the intermarried to the concentration camps). Nevertheless they still did probably experiance some form of bias. It could depend also on where they live. Even in NY I’m sure at some point my husband was treated differently, perhaps not hired bc he wears a skull cap. We just won’t know about it. It definitely wasn’t gone, but it became a lot less prominent, especially in places where there was a large Jewish population.

In Europe we always knew we had to wear a baseball hat over a skull cap, even in london. ( (Some that live their don’t do this, they won’t). What was special about the United States was that people for the most part didn’t have to hide who they were. But now, unfortunately it feels like we’re heading in the direction of the way Europe has been all these years. That is very scary for the people who experience it.

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Original woman's avatar

Agree all religions are under assault. But understand, the Jews in the eyes of the haters ( and this is a global phenomenon) are the root of all evil. It is interpreted this way in Quran and taught in almost every grade school in Middle East. Also Christianity but not the same. Still, Even one drop of hatred can kill millions. Hate is hate is hate.

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Brian Katz's avatar

And supported by UNRWA, an agency of the United Nations, no less.

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Original woman's avatar

It’s been 70 yrs.UNRWA has not done their due diligence.

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Mike R.'s avatar

My two cents worth.

In C.G. Jung's AION (written at the end of his life) it is the loss of Western Civilizations human connection to the God image that will bring about collapse and doom mankind to centuries of barbarism. Healing the split between the sterility (my word) of scientific reason and religious experience will require the creation of a third alternative. (Edward F. Edinger has a commentary and guide to AION that I found useful.)

The war is and always has been on CONSCIOUSNESS. The lie and imposition of a false and manipulated reality (think D.C.). The suppression of free speech, thought and movement. The banning of books. Now, the cancellation of worthy lives. Name your horror. The perpetration and in all cases the hubris and malignant narcissism of the people imposing these restrictions squarely speaks to the pathological. Everyone here has cancer inducing glyphosate in their blood streams. Why? We can take note that the Dutch farmers, the most productive exporters of food in the world, are losing their battle against the WEF/CCP juggernaut in the name of environmentalism. (Supply chain issues anyone?) You can have all the hysteria and crisis you want but, no rational or actual solutions to problems are allowed. Why?

Could it be that we're dealing with crazy people? The participants in the rigged game monopoly experiments, where certain players were given advantages over other participants that ensured they would win, actually came to believe in their superiority and personal skill at the game, and saw no advantage in the advantage given them.

Consciousness. The expansion of Consciousness. Immersion in Consciousness. Participation in Universal Consciousness. The struggle to Consciously remember who we are. I can start by remembering that I'm an American. My Constitution is based upon human dignity. A living creator. And my culture is rich in history and myth. I am CONSCIOUS of both my darkness and my struggle for light and justice.

We're in a brand new game and, we've entered a brand new age. Stay strong. Stay clear.

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Bruce Miller's avatar

Excellent comment, Tim. Much needed perspective. The left hates all religions.

Except, of course, the god that failed.

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Moderate Mom's avatar

Except Islam. They never dare speak against it.

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Patrick Crowley's avatar

They dare not speak against Islam because unlike Christians and Jews, Muslims will not slink off into the night and remain quiet when offended. They will kill you for blaspheming the prophet. This has happened all over the world.

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Bruce Miller's avatar

Sadly, so true. Nor do they dare stand up to the bloodthirsty zealots of this death cult when they try to assassinate a venerated novelist.

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Moderate Mom's avatar

I think deep down whether they want to admit it or not, there's a part of them frightened to do it. What other religion in this day and time will kill you for disagreeing with their religion?

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Bruce Miller's avatar

Pam Geller flips off the Muzzies constantly. That's one brave lady!

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milllionthmonkeytyping's avatar

I wonder if the left embraces Islam simply because Islam hates Jews and Christians, sort of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend

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Celia M Paddock's avatar

This is precisely the reason. The only thing the Left and Islam agree on is that Israel must be destroyed. That hatred, that desire, is powerful enough to overcome disagreement on every other issue.

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Brian Katz's avatar

But for different reasons.

The Left hates Israel because it oppresses Palestinians.

Islam hates Israel because Isaac was chosen to carry Abraham’s legacy, while Ishmael was banished.

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Celia M Paddock's avatar

The Left SAYS it hates Israel because it oppresses Palestinians. I am not convinced that is true.

The reality is that Jews have been hated throughout the millennia. And the haters have always come up with one reason or another that satisfied them that their hate was justified.

For me, as a Christian believer, the perennial, irrational hatred of the Jews (and their survival in spite of it all) is proof that they *are* God's Chosen People. Although it isn't fashionable to say so, I think that the hatred of Jews arises from a darker source than envious human hearts.

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Brian Katz's avatar

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

The best book that I’ve read on the subject of anti Semitism and the history of each of the “libels” is Jewish Pride, by Ben Freeman. He addresses in detail the blood libel, the economic libel the conspiracy fantasy, and the racial libel.

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Tom Sparks's avatar

No. They stereotype followers of Islam as People of Color, and thus oppressed, and thus above whites or white-adjacents. Very simple; works for simpletons.

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Brian Katz's avatar

Some truth in this, yes.

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milllionthmonkeytyping's avatar

Actually I’ve never thought of Muslims as POC but that makes sense.

I wonder if East Indians are considered likewise by the left

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Beeswax's avatar

No, East Indians are too high achieving academically. Like the Nigerians and Jamaicans, their strong family structure and work ethic breed success. They are mainly ignored by the left.

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milllionthmonkeytyping's avatar

So it’s not really about skin color

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Tom Sparks's avatar

No. Their success is ignored. It contradicts the Narrative. If they were unsuccessful they’d be “centered”.

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Brian Katz's avatar

I believe the Left embraces Islam in the US because it is a minority here. Fitting in with their worldview of standing up for the oppressed, nothing more.

But in reality, Islam is not a minority on the world stage and exerts tremendous power.

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milllionthmonkeytyping's avatar

Brian - Jews are also a minority. I personally haven’t seen Muslims being oppressed any more than anyone else

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Brian Katz's avatar

Then why does the Left attack Jews and defend Muslims ?

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Brian Katz's avatar

Simply because they are anti Semitic.

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T Reid's avatar

The left supports Islam...and Islam is very clear in its opposition to homosexuality and equal rights for women. Unsurprisingly, zero logic from leftists.

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Bruce Miller's avatar

You nailed it!!!

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Tom Sparks's avatar

Any belief that isn't part of the new fascism is under assault. Religious or not. If American Jews want to fight budding American anti-semitism they have to fight the new fascism in its entirety. Fascist movements don't cull out exceptions for certain groups. All must think alike. Live alike. That's fascism.

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SI's avatar

Well, guess that explains the Holocaust.

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Brian Katz's avatar

Very true. We all need to fight Cultural Marxism.

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Dennies's avatar

Young Blake is one of the canaries in the coal mine. There have been enormous numbers of canaries who have not survived financially and emotionally.

Blake wisely chose to leave the US. But as he stated early in the essay, most Jewish students are capitulating, as are most all students.

I believe it is insane to send students to these re-education camps, but as Blake wrote, parents are simply ignorant of the extent of the intellectual and emotional carnage taking place there.

Please abandon these re-ed camps. If you can't go to Israel send your children to get a career at an occupational school. There will be places in America that will defend good values, and citizens must find them, move to them and defend them, because the universities and large cities have made their case very clear. They will ruin you or they will own you. Why do so many take so long to see this?

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Brian Katz's avatar

For those of who see this like me, choices are very important and knowing your child is even more important.

My oldest daughter went to a local undergraduate school, a five year program with summer co-ops. She graduated Magna Cum Laude and got five scholarships (at top rated schools) to go onto graduate school for her PhD in STEM. She picked the one that suited her the best and is now deep into her PhD, doing research and writing papers in her chosen field of study. She is level headed and sees the carnage from the Left and is navigating it just fine. I’m not going to tell her she can’t follow her dreams just because of some assholes. She will get her doctorate and then pick what’s next, most likely the private sector.

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Dennies's avatar

You did a wonderful job parenting her, and she must be a very smart young woman navigating the the terrain as she did. Many parents do not report such splendid results.

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Brian Katz's avatar

Thank you very much. We are very proud parents and it was a mutual effort, both parents and child. She did an awesome job.

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Jay Covitz's avatar

That’s all well and good...what is the GOP doing to roll this back? Nothing as far as I can see

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Former Jersey Girl's avatar

What’s the feckless, American Jewish establishment doing about it? Nothing! Taking up every cause but their own. There’s a new organization called the Jewish Leadership Project that is focusing on the issues that the old guard refuses to address. They deserve our support.

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Mike R.'s avatar

I recently met a man forming a "get out the vote" organization. I'm joining. For some reason I always remember the old Zig Zigler line: "Logic will not change an emotion but action will." It is time to rebuild.

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Terence G Gain's avatar

Comstockian nonsense. How do you propose the GOP roll back the culture and programs of nutbar Democrats who control both the universities in Leftist cities and the national narrative

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Terry's avatar

By presenting a better alternative.

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Terence G Gain's avatar

Such as? You can’t implement policies if you are not in power. Here’s the best alternative. Knock off the vacuous criticism and vote Republican across the board.

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Jon's avatar

Trump brokered the Abraham Accords and killed the Iran nuclear deal.

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Jay Covitz's avatar

I’m talking about on college campuses.

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Patrick Crowley's avatar

The GOP and the right have absolutely no influence on the college campus.

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Chris Paramore's avatar

And what power do republicans have on college campuses?

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Susan's avatar

A lot. In Red states legislatures have the power of the purse over public universities. Governors appoint Boards of Trustees, legislatures confirm them. Movements are a foot in Tennessee, Florida and Arizona to begin taking their public universities back. Tennessee passed some intentionally weak legislation on colleges last session. but now the National Association of Scholars just released a report that uses University of Tennessee, Knoxville--the flagship campus--as a case study for a DEI take over. Legislators are pissed, constituents are pissed, and alumni are pissed. We'll see where it goes.

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Jay Covitz's avatar

One example- colleges which receive state or federal funding have anti-discrimination requirements as part of that funding. GOP could push to ensure anti-Semitic speech is included (and enforced) under those requirements.

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Gregg Thompson's avatar

Why require an anti-discrimination clause when we could just stop sending federal money to colleges? Also stop the obscene subsidization that is financial aid. It probably would take a decade for the most leftist schools to fall, but fall they will. We all know leftists won’t stay when the gravy train is over. That would leave room to rebuild something better.

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Chris Paramore's avatar

Ah, but that’s government attempting to reel in the universities. My point is that at the university level there is no republican presence per se. I agree with your proposal though

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Jay Covitz's avatar

Agree. Ultimately, the university system just needs to be destroyed.

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Jon's avatar

Gotcha.

Nothing. The Left has quietly taken control of both K-12 and universities over the past thirty years. That fact, I believe, is responsible for the state of incivility that exists today, as well as the culture of victimhood.

The upside to the pandemic was that it exposed to parent just how bad K-12 has gotten, and started grass roots reform, as well as some political support.

Universities need to be taken apart and put back together. Since alumni seem to keep blindly writing checks, it will have to be the feds, if anyone.

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Brian Katz's avatar

I no longer write checks to my alma mater.

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Skinny's avatar

Good on you Brian!!

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Caroline Bollinger's avatar

The rot in universities is concentrated in particular departments. Education departments are the worst. Males are not allowed to express a masculine POV in most humanities departments. You can’t argue against trans trend without fear of excommunication. Universities need to foster and nurture and fight for viewpoint diversity especially when argued coherently.

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Skinny's avatar

Wish you were the President Jon

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Jon's avatar

You really don't want that.

But thanks

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Skinny's avatar

You sound so normal think you will do a better job than current administration

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Jon's avatar

That's a very, very low bar :)

You might want to draft Celia M though, she's pretty darn smart AND wise.

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Celia M Paddock's avatar

Thanks! But I don't think I could cope with the constant hate directed at me in a position like that.

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Just an observer's avatar

Agree but have never seen smart and decent people go into politics.

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Jon's avatar

Those same politicians that American Jews blindly support.

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Someone in Texas's avatar

Some of my Jewish friends have become such lefties we hardly ever speak. Sad.

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Bruce S. Bevitz's avatar

And for the life of me, I can't understand why. They are like a bunch of automatons. Or perhaps lemmings..

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Naomi's avatar

It's from old hurts and old insults. My grandparents came here from Europe. My grandfather was highly educated and was respected and revered. While he spoke several European languages as well as Hebrew and Yiddish, he did not speak English. However, his children wanted to be fully American. Education is terribly important to Jews and we forget the WASP culture, (or the dominant Protestant culture) did its best to prevent bright Jewish children from attending the better schools. (As they are now doing to Asians). This caused anger and resentment. It caused a focus on social justice. Social justice may have meant one thing back in the 1930's, 40's, and 50's but today has taken on a new dimension.

It's probably why the South stayed Democrat for so long. Old hurts and wounds take a long, long time to heal. The Civil War was bad enough because it killed an entire generation of young men but what may have been worse was Reconstruction. Reconstruction was terrible for blacks and whites. It hardened attitudes and created enmity.

Had Abraham Lincoln or US Grant lived it would have been different. Both men were compassionate, decent, fair men. Unfortunately those who followed didn't have their character or wisdom.

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Bruce S. Bevitz's avatar

Not true. The Democratic Party is the party that fostered and still fosters segregation. Read your history. They continue to enslave, and are the most anti-Semitic people around. Republicans were non-existent in the South until relativity recently . It is the woke democrats that are preventing the brightest children from going to the best schools. Do you think you think that a Republican is on the school board in San Francisco or Oakland? READ history written without distortion!

STOP drinking their Kool-Aid! STOP being a lemming!

By the way-my grandparents were all immigrants from Easter Europe. My DNA shows 100% Jewish Ancestry.

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Bloviating Ignoramus's avatar

How many Confederate flags do you see at Democratic rallies?

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Original woman's avatar

You’re back. Getting your $50 of fun’s worth.

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Bruce S. Bevitz's avatar

What does that have anything to do with anything? There a loonies at your rallies. You paint with a very broad brush. How many socialists and communists to you see at a Republican rally?-The answer is none! You won't see many dependents of the state either, trying to ensure the continuous outpouring of federal aid in ever increasing sums. Your name suits you.

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Bloviating Ignoramus's avatar

Confederate flag? Segregation? Racism? Did the Trump Virus eat your brain?

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Bruce S. Bevitz's avatar

You don't even merit a reply, so I will not reply anymore to you idiocy. Did you major in question marks in school. Stupid? Uninformed? Unemployed? Unhappy? Unrequited? Failure? A Dyed in the wool ignoramus? Bye,Bye! Thank you for the stereotyping-a sure mark of lack of free thinking.

After all-All Republicans are racist; All Republicans favor segregation; All Republicans sport the confederate flag. Just like all democrats are stupid, on welfare, are woke, are lemmings, are socialists, are communists, without the ability of free will, sleepwalk through life!

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Original woman's avatar

Do not reply to Bloating ignoramus. He is an instigator.

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Bloviating Ignoramus's avatar

You lose. Bye Felicia.

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Naomi's avatar

In the South, after the Civil War blacks were Republicans. Democrats ran everything. In the North, it was the country club, upper crust Republicans who ran many things including elite universities. Democrats were in the cities where the majority of the immigrants were. The Republicans, AT THAT TIME, were anti-immigrant, anti-Jew, and anti-Catholic. How about YOU read your history.

The anti-immigrant and anti-liquor movement joined forces to push for Prohibition. It was widely believed, at that time, it was the immigrants who were promoting drunkenness and the social evils that went along with it.

Things have flipped. The current Democrats are indeed racists. They live on a "divide and conquer" basis. They are the ones currently destroying our country. No doubt about that.

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Mike R.'s avatar

Again. We find ourselves trapped in opinion and reaction. I've heard that the Dems founded the clan and voted against civil rights legislation at every opportunity. Is that true or is it "spin". Having been for the underdog my entire life, and looking to the Democratic Party as the voice for sane social policy, having to accept what I'm experiencing as the party's open betrayal of working class America, and a willingness to openly lie and manipulate "..we the people...", I find myself (which I think is their purpose) adrift.

I think we've passed left/right, capitalist/communist, Democrat/Republican. My being self-righteous about my opinions in consequence mean nothing. It's an attempt to buffer the legitimate rage we're all feeling at the class war gutting our nations resources. All that matters is the Constitution and what WE do now. There are legitimate credentialed Jewish voices (I'm not Jewish) calling out the manipulation, crisis, shock and corruption confronting our Republic every place I turn. I'm stronger for it.

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Naomi's avatar

The Democrats have become hideous. Glad you can see that. We have a few pretty poor Republicans too but many more good ones who love their country and take their oath seriously.

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Naomi's avatar

Not all American Jews.

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Jon's avatar

Of course not, but around 70% do.

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Naomi's avatar

How can you measure that? The ones who are Lefties and Democrats are more visible and more vocal.

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Naomi's avatar

Jews are about 2% of the US population. Why is such a big deal made about the handful of prominent Left wing Jews?

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Terry's avatar

Traditionally, Jews have an outsize influence because of their (previous) presence in big cities like NYC and their high education & involvement in public affairs. They have been dispersing out of the collapsing cities for 30-40 years, however.

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Jon's avatar

Well, this article was written about the hate being generated towards American Jews, and I simply pointed out the irony that these same Jews largely vote for the party that's fomenting that hate. You then seemed to question my statement, and upon seeing my source, changed your position to, your post above.

Also, that 2% is exponentially influential in todays culture, imho, in a good way in everything but politics *cough*RobReiner*cough*

I grew up in a suburb of Detroit called Oak Park, that at the time had an extremely large Jewish population that had mostly moved there from Eastern Europe as a result of WWII. I was one of the Christian minority.

I couldn't talk to many of my friends parents as they still hadn't learned English. I loved the culture and have been a blindly loyal supporter of Israel all of my 65 years. I've simply never understood why most American Jews aren't. I'm pretty sure those adults in my neighborhood, some of whom had tattoos from prison camps, had different political views than the current generations.

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Brian Katz's avatar

I watched Rob Reiner on Bill Maher last week and wanted vomited. The guy is an ass.

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Jon's avatar

Yeah, but John Waters and the strawman bit were good. I also hate Amy. Bill did an okay job of keeping them in check.

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Brian Katz's avatar

I agree, 70% of American Jews are Democrats and ignore what the Left is doing to their party.

I’ll explain why.

But first, it’s important to put in writing why the Left hates Jews: because of the Palestinian conflict.

When Obama failed to veto UN Resolution 2334 (saying that Israel is illegally occupying the West Bank) and 70% of American Jews remained silent, I started to read, to find out why, as I was puzzled. This was December 2016.

Then I stumbled on this article. It argues that American Jews who vote Democrat ignore the attacks of the Left (on Israel), do so - because these Jews have separated their Peoplehood / Home Land from their religion. In America, these Jews live in their New Jerusalem and do not want to put themselves in jeopardy, just like during the Holocaust, they hide and keep quiet. They support those who are oppressed, as their worldview supports this, because they were oppressed. They do not respond to attacks by the Left on Israel, because they do not live there. Israel is thousands of miles away. They are Unjews.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-un-jews-natan-sharansky?fbclid=IwAR2RUV0DF8aZV3j2H6X1zt_4MJZT0c0bjg_bPOc_9abX60OrDg32K8TMYoI

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Jon's avatar

I have to admit that even though I'm third generation English on both sides, I'm un-English and un-Protestant, so I suppose I can't throw stones.

I guess I'd say they're un-Israelis v un-Jews.

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Skinny's avatar

But many Naomi I think the percentage is greater than lesser

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Naomi's avatar

I hope that is changing.

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Jon's avatar

Our Universities have failed on so many levels. If there is a silver lining to Biden's $500B vote buying scheme, it's that it paves the way for (hopefully) massive reform of our federal support for the institutions. A bill that gets the US out of the student loan business and ties any future federal aid to meeting specific free speech metrics (like those that FIRE tracks) is long past due.

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Naomi's avatar

But will this be monitored and upheld?

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Skinny's avatar

I think you not reading the vote buying scheme properly

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JBTMD's avatar

Dream on

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Unwoke in Idaho's avatar

Sure, that’ll happen.

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Comprof's avatar

Words aren't violence! - Bari Weiss

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SP's avatar

I think it is ok to listen to the words being spoken and leave before the violence. And many of the examples stated had actions that went with the words that were moving closer to violence. I

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Comprof's avatar

"Words.....that were moving closer to violence."

Sorry!

"Words aren't violence." - Bari Weiss

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Naomi's avatar

Yes but these are two different things. One is freedom of speech and the other is that if we look at history we see that escalation of bias rhetoric and hatred often leads to physical violence. It’s a prediction. It’s not saying that we must arrest people just bc they voice an opinion. Obviously there can be a thin line bw hate speech and actually threatening people. This is a nuanced issue. There are laws for that which should help to determine when one has crossed that line. But until then the hate speech is sowing the seeds and bringing the pot to a boiling point.

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Comprof's avatar

Naomi,

I was being completely sarcastic - and making a comment on the hypocritical fraud that Bari Weiss is. She is all for Free Speech/anti-Cancel Culture when the venom is directed toward black and brown people. If you call the police not once, but twice and falsely claim a black man is attacking you, Bari will dedicate an entire podcast to you, to rehabilitate your image and talk about how we have to understand you were abused as a child, how everyone is wrong for judging her, etc.

However, if you even mention a whisper of criticism toward the IDF, Israel, white people, etc. - she'll call you and "Anti-Semite", try to get you cancelled, ruin your career and call you a bigot.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/

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Naomi's avatar

I vehemently disagree with your point of view. I find Bari to be extremely earnest in trying to highlight important things and criticize whichever side is wrong. There have been Arab professors spewing hate and lies about israel at universities for years. No one is perfect and no country can be perfect. But discussions should be based on facts. If the facts are disputed then both sides should be introduced by the professor. It’s one thing to criticize, it’s another to lie, spew hate, associate with organizations that have terror connections, and call for violence. If people want dialogue - fair and informed dialogue, well there is room for that. There is the another side which will engage in discussions. But much of the time that is not what people find. (As the author of the article describes). They are met with hatred and lies. When one has your point of view, they see everything through that lens and don’t analyze things fairly. There’s no arguing with that. Saying that “you always use antisemitism and the Holocaust as an answer to everything” is in itself antisemitic. This is because it’s dismissing the actual argument the person is making. Ignoring the topic at hand. The Jews are still living the effects of the Holocaust and constant antisemitism. Just bc people “are sick” of hearing about it doesn’t mean it’s not real and isn’t happening. Throughout history and today antisemitism has been veiled with other things but those are just a cover up.

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Comprof's avatar

Yes....."Anti-Semitism" is rampant in America. It's an epidemic....lol.

Bari is fine with black and brown being gored. Jews and other white people....nah....that's a problem.

She and her compatriots were found by Columbia to have been falsely accusing, harassing, engaging in intimidation and trying to get Arab professors fired and denied tenure. So, they were the ones "spewing hate."

Hypocritical Fraud.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/

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Malcolm Ainspan's avatar

Except that the universities themselves say that words are violence, if the words come from the "wrong people". Same for symbols. Which is why affixing a mezuzah on one's dorm room and someone else ripping off the mezuzah and hitting said affixer with it are completely equivalent "morally". And make no mistake, this moral equivalence has already spread from the universities to the elite institutions. Given this perverted view, our choice is between (a) making the universities irrelevant, staying in the US and setting up parallel institutions, and (b) leaving to make a better life in Israel (as I did many years ago). And Jews are truly privileged - we can leave America freely and immigrate to Israel freely. Most other Americans don't have that freedom.

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Comprof's avatar

Yeah....this is all a moral panic generated from a few cherry picked incidents. 99% of universities are moving right along without all this imagined drama.

Tell you what, let's just not have any restrictions of speech or actions at all - that way no one will feel they're being "cancelled by the mob."

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SP's avatar

I stand in agreement with Bari still. It is the unwise who cannot discern between words and actual violence. Words are words. Violence is violence. Sometimes the line is thin, but there is still a line.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

I think Bari is naïve. Violent words inspire violent actions.

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Steven N.'s avatar

This is 3rd grade simplistic at best. Words are simply that… words.

They can inspire, rise up, push down, anger, enlighten and a hundred other things.

But that is 100.00000% on the listener.

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Dean Schulze's avatar

The phrase "violent words" is Orwellian. Words are words.

Words can incite violence, however. The Southern Poverty Law Center labeled the Family Research Council a "hate group" on their web site and that label motivated a gay rights activist to attempt a mass murder at the FRC headquarters. Fortunately a security guard stopped him, suffering a gunshot in the arm in the process.

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Caroline Bollinger's avatar

Agree. Had this conversation with my husband yesterday. He’s more afraid of words than I am. He got mad because I told him how I’d fallen into a late-night twitter well that questioned 9-11. I argued that I should be able to fall into such a well. He says these conspiracy theories are dangerous.

Words can be mean and can sting. But policing words is a very slippery slope and should be avoided as much as possible.

I want to be able to argue that African Americans are harmed by drug use and lack of marriage. And read how the trans movement is a social contagion. I should be allowed to hear a priest speak out against gay marriage. And watch a video of Kubrick saying we never landed on the moon. Not saying I believe those things but I certainly believe in student’s and citizens right to debate all topics. Even the scary ones.

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JAE's avatar

Well said. Remember our words are our thoughts. If we can’t speak freely we can’t think freely. So if you control speech you are controlling minds. That was the point of 1984.

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Dean Schulze's avatar

There are also people who say that silence is violence. Words are violence. Silence is violence. It's all Orwellian nonsense.

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Naomi's avatar

First the language is corrupted and then the horrific actions followed. Every time.

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milllionthmonkeytyping's avatar

My grandmother used to say Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can break your heart

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Naomi's avatar

Your grandmother was a wise woman.

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Naomi's avatar

Actions always follow the words.

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The WAbbott's avatar

What actions always follow which words?

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The WAbbott's avatar

Saying "Lynch mob" causes lynch mobs?

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The WAbbott's avatar

There is no such thing as “violent words”. Directly inciting others to commit violence is already illegal. Speaking harshly about or satirizing political opponents is not “violence”.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

Maybe so but words sure can incite violence. I have to disagree with you. There are such things as violent words. Hitler used violent words to galvanize the German people to violence. Think "Kristallnacht".

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The WAbbott's avatar

I know this can be difficult but we have to be able to distinguish between disagreeable, hateful speech and violence. Again, direct incitement to violence is not protected speech. But if I can label speech I don't like as 'violence' then the only remedy is to make speech illegal. If harsh, even hateful speech (which is always in the eye of the beholder) becomes illegal, you have no hope of living in a free society.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

I am not saying curtail free speech. I am saying words can incite violence. The old saying during the Revolutionary War was "The pin is mightier than the sword."

Karl Marx laid the foundation for the Russian Revolution. Lenin was his messenger.

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QX's avatar

You're misunderstanding what is being talked about here. The argument is not whether words can incite violence. Yes, words can incite violence. Neither Bari or anyone is saying it can't. But what the Wokes and the Doctrine or Safeyism are saying is that words are "literal violence", meaning if you say something that upsets me or triggers me, that is the same as you hitting me and assaulting me. Therefore, I feel unsafe due to your physical presence, because you might say something, your literal words would be an form of physical assault, so I need "safe space" away from you. And if I can't get that and you say something that upsets me, I'm entitled to literally punch you or strike you with a weapon to defend myself against your "literal violence". It's self defense.

That's what Bari was saying when she said "Words aren't violence".

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

Sadly, you are absolutely correct to (and you eloquently describe your point) say that the woke morons think that words are literally violence. But the woke people while dangerous and should not be discounted. It's hard not to discount them because they are such assholes.

But then violent words can be violently acted upon. I find the words and the violence they may incite to be inextricably connected.

As an example, if you watch the videos of the Nuremberg rallies, where over 100,000 people are packed in there, all of these assholes have their hands in the air in a NAZI salute as Hitler rides by. Do you think these people would have been there, ready to go to war and slaughter tens of millions of people, if Hitler's speeches were all about rainbows, unicorns and butterflies?

Words may not be the physical act of violence but they are guilty of fulminating violence. I know there is a physical difference between saying something and actually carrying it out but when words are translated into violence they are joined at the hip.

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Comprof's avatar

NO!!! STOP!!!! You're dangerously close to sounding reasonable. Someone should be able to get in front of someone's face and scream racial epithets and the other person has to stand there and take it - cause if they respond physically, they're the aggressor! "Sticks and stones," right?

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The WAbbott's avatar

No they don't have to stand there and take it. They can walk away and report that they are being harassed. Speaking or writing unpopular opinions is not the same as physically invading someone's physical space and screaming in their face.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

I think you are missing my point. Words can incite violence. That is all I am saying and when they do, there is a thin line between the words and the violence.

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The WAbbott's avatar

"Words may not be the physical act of violence but they are guilty of fulminating violence." Again verbally inciting violence is already illegal.

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Comprof's avatar

But it shouldn't be illegal....that way all the people who are "oppressed" and unfairly have to engage in "self-censorship" won't have to worry about being "cancelled by the mob" anymore.

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LonesomePolecat's avatar

Again you deliberately miss the point. Legal or not legal, words can incite violence. Rebut my Hitler argument. If Hitler had given rainbows and lollipops speeches, do you think over 100,000 people would have shown up at Nuremberg. Would Germany blindly followed him into war. Refute that!

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Comprof's avatar

Unless those words are against Jews....then you're an "anti-Semite."

I'm just disappointed that there's not really good, hateful slurs, etc. for white people - y'know, that kinda stuff that really hits deep.

Anyone know why that is?

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Leah Rose's avatar

Excellent clarification.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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Aug 29, 2022
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memento mori's avatar

From what I understand, the institutions are not responding to these events. Jew hating (couched as anti-Zionism) seems to be a-okay with college administrators (even the Jewish ones - this is what I understand to be the case. )

But more important is your first point: 10-15 or so years ago when the nation started to learn about the "woke" ideology, which was already thriving on college campuses, most people said: well, it's just on a small number of [mostly elite] college campuses. Once these kids get out of college, they'll grow up. Nobody seemed to consider that the ideology would infect the entire nation. So too this new anti-Semitism will infect our country (the virus is already spreading). I can tell you that as a Jew, it is palpable (and btw I am not on a college campus or even in a blue state).

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Aug 29, 2022
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QX's avatar

The reason why the young guy in his 20s responded that way is not because of woke. Asians in the US have struggled for more than a century to be seen, accepted, and acknowledged as Americans. By greeting him in Hindi, you're indicating to him you saw him as foreign and not American, and that your first assumption was that he is not American. While you just meant to be friendly, it didn't come across that way to him. It came across as you didn't take him as a fellow countryman and compatriot because he was not white. In the CRT infested world today for his generation, his reaction is actually what you want. Because it shows he sees himself as an American and wants to be seen first as such, when his left-wing peers are all wanting to find reasons to hate their own country and how they want to leave America. And if he was like them, his answer to you would be you're cultural appropriating his language or some such nonsense.

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Aug 29, 2022
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Original woman's avatar

The dilemma. # Brave Ben Shapiro ❣️🙏🏻

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