This is awesome. But what now? I remember when I was in (a very liberal) college and wanted to major in public policy, my immigrant father sat me down and said “what is your trade?” You need a trade to survive, pick one. He did not believe in blind “follow your dreams”, because he knew what it takes to survive. 25 years later, I coul…
This is awesome. But what now? I remember when I was in (a very liberal) college and wanted to major in public policy, my immigrant father sat me down and said “what is your trade?” You need a trade to survive, pick one. He did not believe in blind “follow your dreams”, because he knew what it takes to survive. 25 years later, I could not be more grateful. But beyond passing it on to my kids, what now?
I’m 49. I was told growing up that I just had to go to college and learn computers. I hated HS and wanted to go to the trade school for my Jr and Sr years. My parents refused, told me that’s where the burnouts and flunkys go. I joined the military my sr year bc I didn’t know what else to do. When I got out I tried college on my GI Bill and just didn’t like it. I spent my 20s working at a bicycle shop in midtown Manhattan. I rented a room in a shithole for $350/mo. Rat infested nastiness.
Age 29 I moved to rural Ohio and found my calling. I went through a apprenticeship at a manufacturing facility and became a Journeyman. Over the years I continued my education (employer paid btw) and obtained a AS degree in Electrical Engineering and Automation and Robotics.
The skilled trades have been very, very good to me. I was able to get married, but a house and raise two boys.
My wife and I are empty nesters now. We sold the house and moved to a suburb of Chicago. I’m working for myself as a “Home Maintenance Specialist” aka Handyman and I am killing it.
Of my 2 boys the oldest has followed my footsteps into manufacturing and a skilled trade. He bought a house last year. The younger is trying to “figure things out” and is currently living with his gf and her family. He works but not a skilled trade job. He spends his money on tattoos and eating out.
I’ll be curious to see how they are doing in 10 years.
The skilled trades are the way to go. I cannot say that enough. HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc.
I'm with you 100%......except for the part where you moved to a suburb of Chicago. Ugh....get out! Come up to southern WI where you can still own a gun and criminals aren't in a no bail system.
I love this. thanks for telling your story here. I agree there's a lot of stigma around learning a trade but the kids who find that path make way more money and have a lot less debt - and they're happy! I wish I had the skill to be a handyman and be able to say "I fixed that!" or "I made that!" at the end of everyday.
I agree! I work in a decently paying field but I’m still paying off my college. I went to community college but the emphasis on over education has just created more debt that I don’t make enough money to pay off anytime soon. I’ve been telling my husband our kids should go to trade school! We will always need people in trades!
Then look for people and groups that are fighting against that scheme.
Stop supporting people and groups that support the scheme.
-----
* excerpt:
Our society is being rapidly reduced to a feudal state, a process now being exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Millions of small businesses are near extinction, millions more losing their jobs and many others stuck into the status of a property-less serfs. The big winners have been the “expert” class of the clerisy and, most of all, the tech oligarchs, who benefit as people rely more on algorithms than human relationships.
Following a remarkable epoch of greater dispersion of wealth and opportunity, we are inexorably returning towards a more feudal era marked by greater concentration of wealth and property, reduced upward mobility, demographic stagnation, and increased dogmatism. If the last seventy years saw a massive expansion of the middle class, not only in America but in much of the developed world, today that class is declining and a new, more hierarchical society is emerging.
The new class structure resembles that of Medieval times. At the apex of the new order are two classes―a reborn clerical elite, the clerisy, which dominates the upper part of the professional ranks, universities, media and culture, and a new aristocracy led by tech oligarchs with unprecedented wealth and growing control of information.
I take your point, SYP. Most fathers would say that. Mine did. And yet if all kids followed that advice of not following your dreams would we have had all the music, art, theatre and literature that we've enjoyed for generations? Sometimes, just sometimes, dreams need to be followed.
Totally agree and thought about that both then and as I wrote my post this morning :) But I’d argue if you do want to “follow your dream” just know what that entails, both good and bad, including the challenges it could introduce if there is not somebody that will pay you for it :). Eyes wide open!
I got the same from my immigrant parents. “That’s not a career it’s a hobby!” I didn’t totally listen but I tried. Every generation has its Peter pans. My 17 year old son doesn’t want responsibility or to have to grow up either. We talk regularly about finding meaning in spite of the struggles but it remains to be seen if we can instill what it takes to be an adult - and a serious one!
Unless he’s showing a willingness to work very hard at school or in a job, and to apply himself in life, which would mean you would be right to help him him along the way, you will have to cut the apron strings as he turns 18.
It will help him to set him free to make his own way, financially and otherwise. It’s a very hard thing for a parent to do, but it’s the best thing we can do for our children. It feels cruel, yet it’s the ultimate kindness.
When my daughter (now 47, very successful & mother of 4), an only child, was 16, we often discussed college choices & her future. She’d get VERY exasperated and say, “Yes, BUT you are a realist and I am an idealist”! My response, “I pay all your bills now, so you can afford to be an idealist. Wait until you have to start paying your own way. I guarantee you’ll become a realist then”
My mother was a very similar career dream killer, “how will you pay that off??” “What if you want a family??” Was upset about it at the time but now seeing how many people spend thousands majoring in something they can’t do. Grateful for her pushback!
This is awesome. But what now? I remember when I was in (a very liberal) college and wanted to major in public policy, my immigrant father sat me down and said “what is your trade?” You need a trade to survive, pick one. He did not believe in blind “follow your dreams”, because he knew what it takes to survive. 25 years later, I could not be more grateful. But beyond passing it on to my kids, what now?
I’m 49. I was told growing up that I just had to go to college and learn computers. I hated HS and wanted to go to the trade school for my Jr and Sr years. My parents refused, told me that’s where the burnouts and flunkys go. I joined the military my sr year bc I didn’t know what else to do. When I got out I tried college on my GI Bill and just didn’t like it. I spent my 20s working at a bicycle shop in midtown Manhattan. I rented a room in a shithole for $350/mo. Rat infested nastiness.
Age 29 I moved to rural Ohio and found my calling. I went through a apprenticeship at a manufacturing facility and became a Journeyman. Over the years I continued my education (employer paid btw) and obtained a AS degree in Electrical Engineering and Automation and Robotics.
The skilled trades have been very, very good to me. I was able to get married, but a house and raise two boys.
My wife and I are empty nesters now. We sold the house and moved to a suburb of Chicago. I’m working for myself as a “Home Maintenance Specialist” aka Handyman and I am killing it.
Of my 2 boys the oldest has followed my footsteps into manufacturing and a skilled trade. He bought a house last year. The younger is trying to “figure things out” and is currently living with his gf and her family. He works but not a skilled trade job. He spends his money on tattoos and eating out.
I’ll be curious to see how they are doing in 10 years.
The skilled trades are the way to go. I cannot say that enough. HVAC, electrical, plumbing, etc.
Todd
I'm with you 100%......except for the part where you moved to a suburb of Chicago. Ugh....get out! Come up to southern WI where you can still own a gun and criminals aren't in a no bail system.
I do like Wisconsin!
I love this. thanks for telling your story here. I agree there's a lot of stigma around learning a trade but the kids who find that path make way more money and have a lot less debt - and they're happy! I wish I had the skill to be a handyman and be able to say "I fixed that!" or "I made that!" at the end of everyday.
I agree! I work in a decently paying field but I’m still paying off my college. I went to community college but the emphasis on over education has just created more debt that I don’t make enough money to pay off anytime soon. I’ve been telling my husband our kids should go to trade school! We will always need people in trades!
Start by realizing how bad the scheme to destroy the [industrial] working classes is.
https://joelkotkin.com/the-coming-of-neo-feudalism/ *
Then look for people and groups that are fighting against that scheme.
Stop supporting people and groups that support the scheme.
-----
* excerpt:
Our society is being rapidly reduced to a feudal state, a process now being exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Millions of small businesses are near extinction, millions more losing their jobs and many others stuck into the status of a property-less serfs. The big winners have been the “expert” class of the clerisy and, most of all, the tech oligarchs, who benefit as people rely more on algorithms than human relationships.
Following a remarkable epoch of greater dispersion of wealth and opportunity, we are inexorably returning towards a more feudal era marked by greater concentration of wealth and property, reduced upward mobility, demographic stagnation, and increased dogmatism. If the last seventy years saw a massive expansion of the middle class, not only in America but in much of the developed world, today that class is declining and a new, more hierarchical society is emerging.
The new class structure resembles that of Medieval times. At the apex of the new order are two classes―a reborn clerical elite, the clerisy, which dominates the upper part of the professional ranks, universities, media and culture, and a new aristocracy led by tech oligarchs with unprecedented wealth and growing control of information.
...
I take your point, SYP. Most fathers would say that. Mine did. And yet if all kids followed that advice of not following your dreams would we have had all the music, art, theatre and literature that we've enjoyed for generations? Sometimes, just sometimes, dreams need to be followed.
The trick is in knowing which ones.
Totally agree and thought about that both then and as I wrote my post this morning :) But I’d argue if you do want to “follow your dream” just know what that entails, both good and bad, including the challenges it could introduce if there is not somebody that will pay you for it :). Eyes wide open!
I got the same from my immigrant parents. “That’s not a career it’s a hobby!” I didn’t totally listen but I tried. Every generation has its Peter pans. My 17 year old son doesn’t want responsibility or to have to grow up either. We talk regularly about finding meaning in spite of the struggles but it remains to be seen if we can instill what it takes to be an adult - and a serious one!
Kick his ass out. Give him $2000 dollars and wish him good luck. He’s your kid, you are responsible for how he turns out so stop whining.
Unless he’s showing a willingness to work very hard at school or in a job, and to apply himself in life, which would mean you would be right to help him him along the way, you will have to cut the apron strings as he turns 18.
It will help him to set him free to make his own way, financially and otherwise. It’s a very hard thing for a parent to do, but it’s the best thing we can do for our children. It feels cruel, yet it’s the ultimate kindness.
When my daughter (now 47, very successful & mother of 4), an only child, was 16, we often discussed college choices & her future. She’d get VERY exasperated and say, “Yes, BUT you are a realist and I am an idealist”! My response, “I pay all your bills now, so you can afford to be an idealist. Wait until you have to start paying your own way. I guarantee you’ll become a realist then”
Try taking away the wifi password and see what happens.
Anything he admires / likes? Maybe a job with them! It’s hard, but this seems like a community that might have good suggestions… 👍
My mother was a very similar career dream killer, “how will you pay that off??” “What if you want a family??” Was upset about it at the time but now seeing how many people spend thousands majoring in something they can’t do. Grateful for her pushback!
Haha - totally agree! My fear is that without parents or mentors like that, that valuable lesson isn’t going to spread.