This was very hard to read. I'll never get these words out of my head. That anyone equates the barbarism of Hamas with the IDF, who warn civilians to get out of the way, is due to pure hatred of Jews.
I stand with Israel and the Jewish people. If people like Hamas and those who support them are victorious, the world will not be a place those screaming from college campuses will like.
Wouldn't have to be Islamists. Based on how these folks react anytime someone so much as disagrees with them, I feel like they would crumble if just about anyone so much as stood up to them. Look how quickly they back pedaled when it became possible that THEY might be canceled/doxxed/kept from getting a job.
I believe that a good chunk of the actual westerners that are siding with Hamas are weak cowards with no real integrity. The hamas thing is just trendy for them...a way to 'stick it to the man' kinda attitude. They feel cool that they are going against the grain. We just need to keep reminding them that they are siding with raping child murderers until their brittle little egos break.
I don't think they would crumble - they are vicious bullies who must be confronted. These people are the enemies of thousands of years of civilization - they must be confronted as the barbarians they are at the gate. For many parents, this must mean very difficult confrontations. For the rest of us, it means not being afraid to call these people out, not just in message boards, but in the real world where they think their bullying gives them the advantage.
I'm not sure which I'd prefer- that they're all weak, or that many of them are strong people with severely misplaced trust in people to tell them the truth of what's going on
I never thought I’d think this - but the USA needs to deport people who are non-citizen, Islamic now…..the presence of these people is not good for American civil society.
They are not sending their best. Once again Trump was right and was opposed by Evil Democrats and weak Republicans alike. Build the wall. Deport illegals. Protect American citizens from harm
The South Americans are these least of it - Biden has let in Chinese, Russians, afghanis, Africans - people from over 180 countries. Be afraid be very afraid.
I do not agree, CC. The actions of Hamas do not reflect the thoughts & feelings of all Islamic/Muslim people. I know and love many Islamic friends who are not down with Hamas, and they are positive forces in my community.
The problem is "moderate muslims" aren't condemning these atrocities. If they don't like it why aren't the speaking against it. Moderate muslims didn't condemn the beheadings of Christians on the beaches of Libya years ago. I don't believe there are any moderate muslims who, in their hearts, condemn the actions of Hamas.
"A new poll released late last week found that the majority of Muslim Americans believes that Hamas was “justified” in committing terrorist attacks against Israel.
The poll from Cygnal surveyed over 2,000 people from October 16-18 to gauge the public’s overall awareness and attitudes about what was happening in Israel."
What you say is of course true. And of course Gazans suffer under Hamas, and many would gladly kick Hamas out. A recent poll finds that about 50 percent of Gazans disagreed with Hamas breaking the ceasefire.
But.
That means that the other half are either in agreement, or are indifferent.
Suppose: HALF of your neighbors are either actively seeking to kill you, or they don't care either way.
Thank you for sharing. As I comfortably sit in Ohio, it’s takes effort to stop and imagine how I’d feel about and react to a group of men who raped and murdered my innocent daughter. Only then can I begin to sense the righteous rage towards Hamas and anyone who helped terrorize the innocent. Satan is real (see Job chapters 1-2). And God is real. Judgment will come.
And then just imagine how you would feel when the world doesn’t even believe it happened or worse, that it was justified. I feel completely lost right now.
The mistake Israel made was in not publishing and broadcasting some of the more horriffic photos immediately (with appropriate pixelation of faces, distinguishing features for privacy). Waiting several weeks makes them seem fabricated, or deep-faked so that Hamas can deny things.
My hope is that support for Hamas will lessen similar to the way that the widespread support of Hitler in the US and Europe before WW II evaporated as what the third reich was became more evident. When the Axis power became a threat to them in their community and to their lifestyle, the support rapidly diminished.
The difference is Hitler was doing his best to hide his atrocities. Hamas is posting them online. Maybe media companies SHOULD allow this horrific film to be public.
Another difference is Palestinians are selecting to portray themselves as “oppressed” and Hitler had the “master race” portrait. Regardless of their very different portrayal both use their role (oppressed/master) to justify their atrocities.
After listening to people deny the Holocaust and even accuse Zionist of contributing to Jewish deaths, it wouldn’t be surprising for sources to deny what happened on Oct 7th. Recently, a journalist noted that although there were babies with their heads off this doesn’t mean the babies were beheaded…follow that logic!
To have some ninny stand up with a picture of a families’ dead relative and explain why it’s fake seems like desecration and opening very painful wounds. Only if the family gives permission should release of photos be allowed.
No...the prevailing sentiment in the west was appeasement, i.e. "peace in our time". Influential academicians like Martin Heidegger were Nazi sympathizers. Many collaborators in different countries aided and abetted the Third Reich. It was vanquished after 6 years of brutal war in Europe and the deaths of millions including the genocide of 6 million Jews.
What I wrote was clumsy. I was trying to say is that maybe the support for Hamas in the US will eventually weaken and decline. This is history repeating itself just as there was appeasement and support for Hitler (the American Bund movement, Chamberlain, Stalin, etc) so there has been appeasement and support for Hamas. The rise of the pro-Palestinian mob does not necessarily signal doom for our country.
There may be a strong similarity to the pro-Palestinian mobs and the American Bund mob. Eventually Bund membership plummeted and it became a footnote rather than a decisive factor in US history.
The US stood by and watched even as Poland and Beligium were invaded and France and England declared war. Not until the Axis power became an actual threat to our way of life and our community by the bombing of Pearl Harbor did the US react.
History showed that the US can survive challenging times and this time is also very challenging, but I remain believing that again the US will survive.
I think it is time to eliminate the enemy of the Jews. It will be ugly and Israel will be hated but as far as I can tell Israel is unjustifiably demonized no matter what it does. Israel must do what needs to be done to survive and thrive. I am a Catholic woman I stand with Israel and with the Jews all over the world.
It’s true. The notion that “if they just respond calmly” they will garner good will among the nations. If they fire a single bullet they are vilified and hated by new generations and beyond. The result will be the same regardless so it’s hard to include “good will” in the equation.
There is no occupation of Gaza! Here’s political columnist Deroy Murdock writing on Martin Luther King Day in 2009 during the first major military engagement with Gaza after Hamas took over:
“In the ultimate goodwill gesture, Israelis withdrew from Gaza in August 2005. Israeli soldiers literally dragged devout Jews kicking and screaming from land they believed the Torah granted them. Authorities evacuated 21 Jewish settlements, dismantled 38 synagogues, and even excavated 47 deceased Jews from Gaza’s Gush Katif cemetery. Unwanted dead or alive, the Israelis vanished from Gaza without a trace. The 8,150 Jews who lived there linger only in the memories of their Palestinian ex-neighbors.
Gaza’s leaders had the opportunity of a millennium. “Free at last, free at last,” a Palestinian Dr. King could have said. “Now, watch us flourish.” A Gazan MLK could have asked JPMorgan Chase to help construct the Middle East’s most modern financial system. He could have called Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic to help build world-class hospitals. Teams from Georgetown, NYU, and Stanford could have helped establish universities whose graduates could outthink anyone from Cairo to Kabul. Estonian experts could have jetted in to explain how free trade and a flat tax can enrich small nations with powerful next-door neighbors. Club Med could have helped Gaza’s Mediterranean beaches lure free-spending tourists. The world would have come running to help elevate this benighted, Denver-sized territory into an oasis from which the mirage of Middle East peace could blossom into reality — if Gazans had only asked.
But no.
Top Gazans had a different development strategy: pound Israel with rockets.”
We Westerners keep trying to understand the Palestinian Arabs through the lens of Western culture. Stop! They have a different culture and different cultural imperatives. There will never be two states living side by side in peace...because that’s not what they want. Their sense of justice, their shame/honor culture, demands the eradication of Israel. And unless people come to grips with that, there will continue to be piles of dead Jews.
Their worldview is 180 from the worldview of Western Culture and that's the problem. They are still inhabiting the worldview of their ancestors from the 1400's when they destroyed Al Andalus in what is now Spain.
One reads the Old Testament and this carnage runs through the ages. Yet we’re told by progressive elected leaders, teachers, religious leaders humanity has matured to a post-modern level of humanity and compassion. Remember that angry guy, the first president from “the generation we’ve been waiting for,” who intoned “the arc of history bends toward justice”?
Bull shit.
Oddly, what struck out for me in this account of madness was this:
“His automatic rifle juts out just like they do on the screen in Call of Duty. This is deliberate; ISIS did the same thing. It is the gamification of terror.”
The modern gamification of terror coupled with age-old cultivation of hate.
"We shall overcome because the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice." –Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. It is indeed long and all we can do is our best to see it bends in the right direction. Thank you, Bari, for continuing to report the truth, not only about the events of October 7 but about the disgraceful and outrageous way too many of our fellow Americans have reacted. I don't believe KJP is hard of hearing. Rather this administration is too concerned with Islamophobia and not concerned enough about antisemitism or Iran's role in this massacre.
I don’t know what to say to this. Beyond belief. Beyond any experience in my life. By far the worst of humanity. The killers and their supporters must be eliminated.
Disgusting but to be expected from savages. That footage should be mandatory viewing at all US universities. There can be no compromise, no negotiation with Hamas or any of the terrorist groups, and sorry to say, we should not try to negotiate the release of hostages as cruel as that sounds because it will only encourage more hostage taking. The terrorists count on the humanity which they utterly lack to bend to their demands. I'm sorry, but for the protection the rest, we should demand the release of hostages and walk away from the table.
People see what they want to see and support those they wish to support. Pro-Palestine rallies would view this footage either as entertainment or as something cooked up by Jews in Hollywood to fool the masses. Nobody doesn't know what happened on October 7. Forgive my cynicism, but I think you're giving these folks too much credit.
The problem is that people really are that evil. We like to pretend they aren't. But the people at these rallies genuinely are evil enough to ENJOY these horrific scenes.
You're right. They blame Jews for running the entertainment industry, banking, western governments, etc. whatever is at all plausible in their minds. There is no changing Iran's leadership which is funding Hamas. I just wish western governments, including ours, and the UN would stop sending money. They could send goods instead.
You underestimate how inured our young people are to violence. They have been fed the gleeful violence of video games from childhood. They have laughed at slasher films and zombie tv shows. Rape appears pleasurable on internet porn. Ruthless comic book anti-hero’s are quoted and emulated. Showing these videos on college campuses would not have the effect you foresee.
I think you're right. And I think that's why the journalist noted that the most audible collective gasp from the journalists was when the dog was shot. We've seen movies, games, etc. our entire lives depicting humans killing each other. But we rarely see dogs being killed/abused (John Wick being an exception and that event is the catalyst in the movie for a killing spree) so it's more shocking. So I think you're right - these kids at these universities are well aware of what Hamas did. But they can "other" the Israelis as "colonizers" and then feel good about painting the terrorists as "freedom fighters". I would love to remind those kids that, by their definition, they and their families and their fellow students are "colonizers" and that most of the world is now inhabited by people who aren't indigenous to where they live. Unbelievable ignorance runs rampant at our universities.
I see you are a teacher. I was, too, high school. It was frustrating to see how little was absorbed and how much influence the Internet has over formative minds.
Three weeks ago, young adults were concerned with microaggressions and believed misgendering someone was "violence." Now that they're confronted with horrendous real violence, they side with the perpetrators. They have neither maturity or wisdom. The question is whether they will ever learn.
couldn't agree more. your explanation makes sense, we are used to seeing people being killed on screen, not dogs. And I volunteer for a dog rescue so I'm perfectly fine with John Wick being a dog-avenging badass lol
The research has been done umptie times. There is no correlation; let alone causation. Cinema, TV, Comics, or games, it doesn't matter whichever media this "claim" is made for: the hypothesis of correlation is always falsified.
It behoves all to be factual in these times and not promulgate lies. It makes the promulgator of the falsehood no better than those who promulgate the falshoods of Hamas.
Cite the research please, then do a bit of research into who funded it.
My comment came from real-world experience. When I started my teaching career, teenagers still got nightmares from “Chain Saw Massacre.” Now, they laugh at something so mild. Most adults do, too. Children absorb much more than you think they do. Unfortunately, many don’t have the common sense or adult guidance to process fiction from fact.
Plus, cell phones have made many complete narcissists - “It’s not me, so why should I care?” Easy to take sides when it doesn’t affect you.
Realize this- if it can happen in Israel it can happen anywhere in the West. I disagree with the speaker, I know Israel has a propaganda war to fight but let’s all be clear- Islam is very much to blame for the terrorism and barbarism we’ve witnessed and been subjected to since 622 AD. (Updated) I’m not saying all Muslims - but the religion and thought behind it is problematic. Muhammad was a warlord- he preaches to conquer.
Yes and let’s be honest. Even if Islam is 95% peaceful innocents, it’s the 5% who matter because they are the ones committing atrocities, killing their own people, and forcing their brutal dictatorships on the other 95%. Sadly the rest becomr irrelevant when this level of depravity is unleashed by the madness of the few.
I don't believe there are any "moderate muslims" if they are why aren't they crying out in protest in England, the US, France, Germany and the rest of the West. The silence is deafening.
The giant elephant in the room. And Leftist progressives siding with Islam in the culture wars is truly strange. It’s hard to imagine two more incompatible world views, but I guess they find common ground in wanting to dismantle the Western powers.
Let me not hear one more word about the Crusades from ANYONE! Although they were conducted with Christianity as a cause, NOTHING compares to October 7th! Allahu Akbar, indeed!
Yarmuk was 634 and Mo, Piss Be Upon Him, had already been killing Jews and Xtians for about ten years. Minor point? When a lot of folk are straight up lying it behoves to be accurate.
First, I worked alongside Muslims, male and female, for more than 30 years, both in my New York office and in several Islamic countries. I NEVER met a "Moderate Muslim". I don't believe that such a creature exists. Every Muslim that I met bought the entire Islamic program or were convinced atheists who had abandoned their ancestral faith
The program requires the conversion, subjugation, or elimination of infidels. We are the infidels. The Koran encourages Muslims to lie to infidels to advance the interests of Islam. Don't believe anything a "Moderate Muslim" speaks or writes in the American media. He/she is lying
Your friendly Pakistani or Egyptian neighbor in your big city apartment building or leafy suburban subdivision is most probably proud of the glorious attack of Hamas on the Jewish infidels. I remember Muslims in Paterson NJ dancing in the streets in jubilation on 9/11. I will NEVER forget those scenes.
Second, I am an Irish Catholic. My family members were fervent supporters of the Democratic Party throughout the 19th century and until my Dad voted against FDR in 1940. In my family, Election Day was known as Resurrection Day, because the good Democrats in Calvary Cemetery rose from the dead to vote the straight Democratic ticket
There valid reasons for the Irish of the past to vote Democratic. There were valid reasons for Jews in the past to vote Democratic. Now, a vote for a Democrat is a vote for the party that is the home of virulent anti-Semitism, and contains avid supporters of the Hamas terrorist atrocity. I ask my fellow Amerucans of the Jewish faith to consider that a vote for a Democrat at any level, local, state or national is a potential vote for further atrocities against your fellow Jews worldwide, including the United States. Reflect seriously on that
Thank you for your comment. I completely agree. The Quran calls for converting or killing all infidels. There are no other options. The sooner more people really understand this, the better off we will all be.
We should believe the documents they hold to be true. I the Koran says to kill infidels (anyone not a muslim) they will kill infidels and revel in it. Period.
It's worth noting many seem to have been given something like synthetic cocaine, to deaden their consciences, reduce fear of the death many of them met short hours later, and probably to increase their sadistic enjoyment.
And if you think about them bragging to their fathers, does that not betray indoctrination from the earliest ages? How can any sane person claim the Gazans want peace when they expose their kids to vicious, Jew hating propaganda from the earliest ages? That's not the path to peace, is it? We all know that. They know that. The Left knows that.
It is easy to get confused in this world. The first step in the direction out is to recognize this. Because being lost feels exactly like certainty.
So giving people drugs so they can go murder, maim, and kidnap gives the murderers, maimers, and kidnapers a free pass? They took the drugs voluntarily. No free pass, they are responsible for their actions.
I had the first impression you did, but I think this commenter was rather clumsily using it to illustrate how the Palestinians condition and brainwash their "warriors" to the point of giving them synthetic drugs to make them into killing machines, such is their hatred. I agree that it is NOT an excuse for their actions. Maybe it could have been worded a little differently so it didn't appear to be explaining away the behavior.
“Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud”
It’s not about Islam…
“ This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.”
It’s not about Islam…
“Mom, Dad, I killed ten Jews with my bare hands. Allahu akbar!”
“It’s not about Islam” is a thought-terminating cliche.
Saying this is not about Islam is like saying that the pro-Life movement is not about Christianity. Yes, if your view of Christianity expands to the borders of the International Lutheran Conference and United Church of Christ. You might have to look a bit more broadly and deeply.
Does this mean that all Muslims are complicit in this? Of course not: Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. But there is very broad support for Hamas across the Muslim world and refusing to look at that hampers thinking.
Our leaders have been looking at Islam with Nelson’s eye since 9/11 and how has that worked for us?
It's not about Islam! But let's play a thought game and come up with some examples of evangelical Christians who film themselves raping and murdering, and then celebrate it in the name of Jesus to their family.
What I don’t know, is this Islam proper? Or is this Islam infused with Hitler-like fascist ideology? Either way, I agree it has more to do with Islam than not.
However, I don’t think your comparison to the pro-life being Christian is a good one. Most Christians should indeed be pro-life, but you absolutely do not need to be Christian or even religious to be pro-life. I know many secular atheists who are pro-life. Seeing an unborn human child as a distinct living human had is valuable and worthy of life is not in itself a religious argument. You may have religious reasons for seeing the unborn as worthy or valuable, but other may have secular reasons for holding the same view. I suggest you check out https://secularprolife.org/ to understand the secular reasons to be pro-life.
Actually, KB, I think you’re making my point for me. The pro-life movement is broad, but who has more weight in the community, pro-Life secularists or Catholics and Evangelical Christians? Without the latter, I would venture that the pro-Life movement would be a few souls standing outside Congress holding signs and wearing sandwich boards.
Plenty of non-Muslims support Hamas and anti-Semitic genocide too, but I wouldn’t say that negates the Islamic core behind it. As to the history, the Hamas covenant is steeped in it, and it predates Hitler by over a millennium. This is ground that was extensively covered pre- and post-9/11 by the likes of Bernard Lewis, Bat-Yeor, Robert Spencer, Mark Steyn, to name but a few.
I certainly see your point about the religious having more weight and representation in the pro-life community. But you still imply that the underlying argument for being pro-life is religious, just as the underlying core argument for Hamas is religious (Islam). I think the comparison is opposite. Yes, plenty of non-Muslims support Hamas by denying or ignoring the religious core behind it. But secular pro-lifers don’t ignore anything religious, because the core argument against abortion is simply this:
1. The human zygote, embryo, and fetus are all human organisms.
2. All human organisms are morally relevant.
3. It’s generally immoral to kill human beings.
4. Bodily rights aren’t enough to justify elective abortions.
Nothing in this is explicitly religious. A religious person might base his/her #2 claim on a religious foundation (I.e. that all human beings are morally valuable because they are all made in the image of God.) But you can also get to that claim by simply being humanist— if you value human rights, then you value humans. And anytime we have our extra requirements on who gets human rights (such as you get basic rights if you are human and not black for example, or human and not Jewish, etc.) then massive atrocities have occurred. The only requirement for basic human rights should be simply and only being a human being. Since the pre-born are members of the human species even from the earliest days of development, then they should be included. I could go more into this, but essentially you can claim #2 through the reasoning of a humanist understanding of human rights. I think most people don’t consider that religious.
If all religious pro-lifers disappeared, the movement would be small, but it would still have ground to stand on. There reasons for being pro-life won’t be swept away if the religion is.
But the opposite is true for Hamas. Take away the Islam core of Jew-hatred, and the non-relgious supporters of Hamas will have to come up with other reasons for hating Jews. (Which I am sure they can do, but that’s not the point. The point is that a secular pro-lifer doesn’t have to change the basic premise that all human life is valuable just because the religious part of their group goes away. Whereas, is Islam went away, people will need to come up with a new premise to hate the Jews.)
I take your point but, tbh, I think the comparison stands well enough w/o going into a deep-dive on the arguments surrounding abortion, about which we seem to be broadly in agreement.
The non-Islamic apologists for Hamas would appear to be moved by one of two ideas: Critical Theory/Intersectionality (whatever term one happens to use for it) for those on the left; or, on the right, some version of Nazi ideology and/or Christian identitarianism. None of that would change were Islam somehow to reform itself out of its basic Jew-hatred. If there are others, I'd be interested in knowing. Remember how certain sections of the Left gushed over the likes of the DFLP back in the day when they slaughtered kids in an elementary school. But they like the ends and the means regardless whether the motive is the wretched of the Earth rising up agains their oppressors or the reestablishment of the Caliphate.
I see your point, but if Islam didn’t have Jew-hatred built in, should the Left’s Criticial Theory then even see the Palestinians as oppressed peoples? That’s what I doubt. Seems to me that one of the drivers of the Critical Theory-Intersectionality viewpoint to support Hamas is due to the success of Hamas propaganda. Israel in real life is not an apartheid state or colonizer by any definition of those terms, nor an oppressor, yet the CT-Left sees it that way ONLY because Hamas has framed it that way knowing full well that they can weaponize the compassion of those on the Left to their viewpoint. If Islam never had this propaganda machine pushing these lies, would the Left even see Israel through this lens? I suspect not.
Nazi ideology probably more closely aligns with Islam, since both rely on the idea of one group of people being superior to another, and the inferior group becomes the scapegoat for all problems.
Most of the Left really would not want to live in an Islam world with the establishment of the Caliphate though. They don’t believe Hamas and Islam when these groups state their goals. I agree that they like the ends and means, even if motive is different, but I can’t see the Left hoping with Hamas and Islam all the way— they align in that they both want the destruction of Western civilization, but if Islam were to take over, I can’t imagine the Woke idealists who are for LGBTQ+, abortion, and other social issues simply sitting back and letting Islam kill them all. At some pint, the ideologies do diverge, but at this pint they are only aligned by a common enemy.
In contrast, a secular pro-life seeks a world in which there is no abortion. Same end goal as a religious pro-lifer. If abortion were to become unthinkable, the secular pro-lifer and the religious pro-lifer would still be united and thrilled with that outcome. That is where the comparison falls short, I think. Perhaps the Nazi ideaology fits your comparison more aptly, but I see a divergence from Woke and Islam/Hamas that I don’t think exists between secular and religious pro-life.
But regardless, it is telling for the Woke Left and what they really stand for when they align with the likes of Hamas.
Here is the 6th sentence in the Hamas Covenant of 1988. Very straightforward. You can google the entire Covenant and it is quicker to read than the Q'uran.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"
'kin 'ell, chuck. G. Jn. 8:44 antedates the Qur'an by c.400yrs, the BS estimate for the Qur'ans date of writing, or c.5-600yrs, the dating of scholars not taken in by the BS. The Greek is clear; the Xtian God is not the Jewish God: the Jewish god is the father of the Devil and the Jews. The Jewish god is both a liar and a murderer. THIS IN A GOSPEL CANONICAL ACROSS ALL CHRISTENDOM.
The "Blood Libel". The "Christ Killers". Luther, albeit as senile as Biden by then, wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies". The "Jewnited Nations". "Jew WILL NOT replace US". Jew-hate, and the weapons of Jew-hate have been there almost before Xtianity was born and still lie readily to hand.
Mohammed, if anything, stole a Xtian script. Islam is equal parts a heterodox Judaism and a Xtian heresy. Just as Xtianity is a heterodox Judaism. Read the TaNaKH, Macabees, and Josephos. Intra-Jewish "squabbling" was a thing to behold; Paddy has nowt on them! Once the three groups had decided to completley Other what were firstly just different flavours of Judaism... well first Xtendom and then the Ummah, weaponised hate and took it from what was largely a thing of homiletic fiction (The Old Testament/TaNaKh, get over it.) and reified and realised it.
Ours' and Islam's gods are one and answer not to "God" or "Yahweh"; but rather Apophis or Beliar. Put simply, for all both claim Peace and Love their middle name in absence, rather we both worship the God of Hate (One to a much lesser degree than the other, let me be clear [also to be clear, not original, but probably "Pagan" input. So no cheering!] ) where the rubber meets the road.
This is not rocket science. Unlike the TaNaKh or New Testament, it has no dissenting voices and no get-out-of-jail card. The Islam of Hamas, the Islam of the Mullahs and Ayatollahs, the Islam of the Brotherhood and the Ikwan, the Islam of the Deobandi and Wahabbi, IS Islam.
"I don't know" is the same as "Heil Hitler!" at this point. "I don't know" means "Kill the Jews! There is no God but Beliar and Hitler is his Prophet!", and has done since the World Trade Center was destroyed. You do not have an excuse for being an uneducated shill for genocides and haven't had one for twenty-odd years.
Excuse me, but I am in no way saying “I don’t know” for the morality of genocide. Unequivocally, Hamas is to be condemned.
However, I know practicing Muslims who disagree with the ideas of these terrorists groups. You know how Christians supported slavery in the past? Well they had bad theology and bad Biblical interpretation in order to support slavery, and the Christians that lead the charge to abolish slavery argued that it was bad Biblical interpretation that lead to the support of slavery. In a similar way, since I am not familiar with the Quran as much as I am with the Bible, what I don’t know is whether the Hamas-types have the better interpretation of the Quran or if the peaceful Muslims who reject Hamas rather have the better interpretation. Does this make sense?
Perhaps you are right and I simply haven’t investigated the Quran fully enough, but it is NOT an equivocation on my part to admit what I don’t know. I am simply being honest. I welcome information to correct my ignorance, but I would appreciate it done in a polite way, and not assuming that I am in any way, shape, or form supporting Hamas or the killing of Jews. I support Israel 100% and condemn Hamas unequivocally. I was simply saying that I have heard conflicting views as to which version of Islam is the “correct belief” (much like Christians do the same thing) and honestly admitting that I do not know which view aligns more with the correct interpretation of Islam.
Rude? Mate, I have no time for Nazis, nor for their KNOWING enablers. Sorry, you are claiming to have had your fingers in your ears for twenty-odd years singing "Lah, la-la, lah, lah" to the world. It simply won't wash. Rude? Apologies to John Paul, but I have not BEGUN to be rude.
Hamas’s charter is explicit in that it IS about Islam. Only an Islamic Caliphate that subjects Jews, Christians, and those of the other faiths to second tier status is the accepted answer.
A simplified version: Christians burned people at the stake, including many of each other. A thousand years ago, plus/minus, they did this reformation thingee, the result of which judgment was returned to God's hands where it always belonged. (I'll stipulate the possibility of a lunatic person or maybe even a small group that feels otherwise, notwithstanding that I've heard of none such, even with the presence of "news" "media" that are salivating over the possibility of blasting the existence of such a thing wall-to-wall.) But even the guy who introduces the present chamber of horrors gives a pass to the lot based upon the claim of "only" 5% being murderous. I. Do. Not. Understand. Islam MUST be sanctioned -- in toto -- until -- at the very least -- that alleged 95% becomes EXTREMELY vocal -- and active -- about reformation that includes explicit repudiation of that which is unacceptable.
This is what keeps occurring to me. It is obvious that there is significant support for Hamas among the "innocent civilians" in Gaza. It seems anyone with a public following is too afraid to make the point that maybe many of them aren't innocent civilians. If you support the atrocities that Hamas committed, and cheer at dead bodies in pickup trucks, can the term "innocent" really apply? Sure, they were raised that way from childhood, to hate Jews, but simply because they don't pick up a gun does that mean they are "innocent civilians", which in the West we conflate with ourselves, the average person who has no overriding animus even comparable to the Jew-hatred we see in Palestine.
Compare them to the non-combatant Germans during WWII. How are they different? Are they better or worse? I would argue worse since they did not have direct video evidence of the horrible actions of their government. But these people do and still seem to support it, glory in it even.
Also, the Allies bombed the hell out of Germany and Japan because it was necessary to win the war. The "home front" became so much more important, especially in Japan, where "innocent civilians" were required to machine parts for planes and weapons in their own homes, using presses and lathes, dispersing the industrial capacity throughout the population so it couldn't easily be targeted by bombing. This is what Hamas has done. I don't like what this conflict is doing to me mentally, and I'm 5,000 miles away and not even Jewish. But I also think more and more that the people who openly or even quietly support this type of animalistic, nihilistic behavior are a blot on the human race. There can be no reconciliation or agreement with people who are ok with this.
Thank you for sharing. Good vs Evil. Right and Wrong. I am uniquely horrified in a way that I never have previously been about what we saw unfold, but worse, how the world, and particularly how so many groups and institutions in our country, are reacting.
This is why the members of the squad have to be removed from office. They don't merely have different points of view. They are vile creatures who use their positions to spew out anti-semitism. AOC, in some ways, is much worse. She is Puerto Rican from a middle class background; college educated. She has latched on to the hate and shows no signs of letting go. They are all operating against our country; their allegiance is not to the United States.
I wonder if we should all see this footage. One of the most profound events of my young life was watching a program about the holocaust with my parents and seeing the bodies pushed into a mass grave. I came away changed. I come from Christian parents but the lesson I learned was both Never Again as well as the fact that apparently “average people” could let this happen or turn their gaze away and ignore it.
This young generation who seem so filled with acceptance of Hamas should see this in all of its brutality and maybe, just maybe this will disabuse them of their rhetoric and slogans
I agree. I saw those Holocaust reels as a teenager too, and there is nothing quite like seeing bulldozers push hundreds of skeletal bodies into a hole. Or the bodies stacked up to the ceiling. You have to see it with your own eyes, not just read about it. And amazingly, even with those images available for many decades, there are still Holocaust-deniers. Like, how could that possibly be faked? So I suspect there would still be deniers with this, but it would still open a lot of people's eyes.
That's why Eisenhower told the photographers to take a lot of pictures. He wanted documentation of the Holocaust so people could never say it didn't happen, and yet, here we are with Holocaust deniers. I'm not sure this evidence would make a difference.
I’ve been reading TheFP daily and more than once a day since Oct 7. I truly appreciate your coverage. This article said 200 journalists were there. I’ve been looking at various sites to see if anyone else has printed anything. Could you point me to some other journalists that have written about the video coverage event for journalists?
This was very hard to read. I'll never get these words out of my head. That anyone equates the barbarism of Hamas with the IDF, who warn civilians to get out of the way, is due to pure hatred of Jews.
I stand with Israel and the Jewish people. If people like Hamas and those who support them are victorious, the world will not be a place those screaming from college campuses will like.
I begin to think it is indeed a world that those screaming on college campuses will like. Because they are savages too. There I said it. I mean it.
They will like it until an Islamist decides they are actually an evil infidel and murders them (before or after raping them).
Wouldn't have to be Islamists. Based on how these folks react anytime someone so much as disagrees with them, I feel like they would crumble if just about anyone so much as stood up to them. Look how quickly they back pedaled when it became possible that THEY might be canceled/doxxed/kept from getting a job.
I believe that a good chunk of the actual westerners that are siding with Hamas are weak cowards with no real integrity. The hamas thing is just trendy for them...a way to 'stick it to the man' kinda attitude. They feel cool that they are going against the grain. We just need to keep reminding them that they are siding with raping child murderers until their brittle little egos break.
These are the same people who advocate giving mastectomies to 14 year old girls.
Remarkable, isn't it, the overlap between trans activists and Hamas supporters.
I don't think they would crumble - they are vicious bullies who must be confronted. These people are the enemies of thousands of years of civilization - they must be confronted as the barbarians they are at the gate. For many parents, this must mean very difficult confrontations. For the rest of us, it means not being afraid to call these people out, not just in message boards, but in the real world where they think their bullying gives them the advantage.
I'm not sure which I'd prefer- that they're all weak, or that many of them are strong people with severely misplaced trust in people to tell them the truth of what's going on
Some are already Islamists. The rest will convert readily. Forgive my doom and gloom. I am a prepare for the worst, hope for the best kind of person.
I never thought I’d think this - but the USA needs to deport people who are non-citizen, Islamic now…..the presence of these people is not good for American civil society.
It's terrifying they are illegally crossing the border.
They are not sending their best. Once again Trump was right and was opposed by Evil Democrats and weak Republicans alike. Build the wall. Deport illegals. Protect American citizens from harm
I'll take 1000 immigrants from southern countries over one radical Muslim.
Those from Latin and South America share our values: they are actually more religious than most in the US, they work hard and are family people.
They don't want to kill us. They want to be like us.
But we have to screen them to make sure no bad apples or Islamic fundamentalists sneak through with them.
The South Americans are these least of it - Biden has let in Chinese, Russians, afghanis, Africans - people from over 180 countries. Be afraid be very afraid.
I do not agree, CC. The actions of Hamas do not reflect the thoughts & feelings of all Islamic/Muslim people. I know and love many Islamic friends who are not down with Hamas, and they are positive forces in my community.
They need to come out and say so publicly.
The problem is "moderate muslims" aren't condemning these atrocities. If they don't like it why aren't the speaking against it. Moderate muslims didn't condemn the beheadings of Christians on the beaches of Libya years ago. I don't believe there are any moderate muslims who, in their hearts, condemn the actions of Hamas.
"A new poll released late last week found that the majority of Muslim Americans believes that Hamas was “justified” in committing terrorist attacks against Israel.
The poll from Cygnal surveyed over 2,000 people from October 16-18 to gauge the public’s overall awareness and attitudes about what was happening in Israel."
What you say is of course true. And of course Gazans suffer under Hamas, and many would gladly kick Hamas out. A recent poll finds that about 50 percent of Gazans disagreed with Hamas breaking the ceasefire.
But.
That means that the other half are either in agreement, or are indifferent.
Suppose: HALF of your neighbors are either actively seeking to kill you, or they don't care either way.
Please think about it, and how you would respond.
They are in the minority, sadly. All the polls show this to be true.
Where are they? I have seen one person on twitter say what Hamas has done is disgusting.
You're right. To add: those screaming on college campuses will be casualties themselves. They are too naive to know this.
Thank you for sharing. As I comfortably sit in Ohio, it’s takes effort to stop and imagine how I’d feel about and react to a group of men who raped and murdered my innocent daughter. Only then can I begin to sense the righteous rage towards Hamas and anyone who helped terrorize the innocent. Satan is real (see Job chapters 1-2). And God is real. Judgment will come.
And then just imagine how you would feel when the world doesn’t even believe it happened or worse, that it was justified. I feel completely lost right now.
The mistake Israel made was in not publishing and broadcasting some of the more horriffic photos immediately (with appropriate pixelation of faces, distinguishing features for privacy). Waiting several weeks makes them seem fabricated, or deep-faked so that Hamas can deny things.
St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. .
Amen.
and amen.
Amen
You've read the book; I assume you know how this ends.
The whole world turning against Israel is inevitable. That doesn't make it less horrible and painful to watch.
Correct. As a Christian we do know the outlines of what will happen. Things will get MUCH worse.
I disagree as I believe the vast majority of people are reasonable, at least I hope so!
My hope is that support for Hamas will lessen similar to the way that the widespread support of Hitler in the US and Europe before WW II evaporated as what the third reich was became more evident. When the Axis power became a threat to them in their community and to their lifestyle, the support rapidly diminished.
The difference is Hitler was doing his best to hide his atrocities. Hamas is posting them online. Maybe media companies SHOULD allow this horrific film to be public.
Another difference is Palestinians are selecting to portray themselves as “oppressed” and Hitler had the “master race” portrait. Regardless of their very different portrayal both use their role (oppressed/master) to justify their atrocities.
After listening to people deny the Holocaust and even accuse Zionist of contributing to Jewish deaths, it wouldn’t be surprising for sources to deny what happened on Oct 7th. Recently, a journalist noted that although there were babies with their heads off this doesn’t mean the babies were beheaded…follow that logic!
To have some ninny stand up with a picture of a families’ dead relative and explain why it’s fake seems like desecration and opening very painful wounds. Only if the family gives permission should release of photos be allowed.
No...the prevailing sentiment in the west was appeasement, i.e. "peace in our time". Influential academicians like Martin Heidegger were Nazi sympathizers. Many collaborators in different countries aided and abetted the Third Reich. It was vanquished after 6 years of brutal war in Europe and the deaths of millions including the genocide of 6 million Jews.
What I wrote was clumsy. I was trying to say is that maybe the support for Hamas in the US will eventually weaken and decline. This is history repeating itself just as there was appeasement and support for Hitler (the American Bund movement, Chamberlain, Stalin, etc) so there has been appeasement and support for Hamas. The rise of the pro-Palestinian mob does not necessarily signal doom for our country.
There may be a strong similarity to the pro-Palestinian mobs and the American Bund mob. Eventually Bund membership plummeted and it became a footnote rather than a decisive factor in US history.
The US stood by and watched even as Poland and Beligium were invaded and France and England declared war. Not until the Axis power became an actual threat to our way of life and our community by the bombing of Pearl Harbor did the US react.
History showed that the US can survive challenging times and this time is also very challenging, but I remain believing that again the US will survive.
Is this what IT TOOK???
I think it is time to eliminate the enemy of the Jews. It will be ugly and Israel will be hated but as far as I can tell Israel is unjustifiably demonized no matter what it does. Israel must do what needs to be done to survive and thrive. I am a Catholic woman I stand with Israel and with the Jews all over the world.
It’s true. The notion that “if they just respond calmly” they will garner good will among the nations. If they fire a single bullet they are vilified and hated by new generations and beyond. The result will be the same regardless so it’s hard to include “good will” in the equation.
And yet…the current narrative is how well Hamas has treated the hostages. Yeah…let’s use their ‘good will’ to buy time, give them cover.
Sorry, no. Good will is never having performed their deeds in the first place.
As another commenter wrote, I too am lost.
Israel can exist or Hamas can exist. Not both.
There is no occupation of Gaza! Here’s political columnist Deroy Murdock writing on Martin Luther King Day in 2009 during the first major military engagement with Gaza after Hamas took over:
“In the ultimate goodwill gesture, Israelis withdrew from Gaza in August 2005. Israeli soldiers literally dragged devout Jews kicking and screaming from land they believed the Torah granted them. Authorities evacuated 21 Jewish settlements, dismantled 38 synagogues, and even excavated 47 deceased Jews from Gaza’s Gush Katif cemetery. Unwanted dead or alive, the Israelis vanished from Gaza without a trace. The 8,150 Jews who lived there linger only in the memories of their Palestinian ex-neighbors.
Gaza’s leaders had the opportunity of a millennium. “Free at last, free at last,” a Palestinian Dr. King could have said. “Now, watch us flourish.” A Gazan MLK could have asked JPMorgan Chase to help construct the Middle East’s most modern financial system. He could have called Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic to help build world-class hospitals. Teams from Georgetown, NYU, and Stanford could have helped establish universities whose graduates could outthink anyone from Cairo to Kabul. Estonian experts could have jetted in to explain how free trade and a flat tax can enrich small nations with powerful next-door neighbors. Club Med could have helped Gaza’s Mediterranean beaches lure free-spending tourists. The world would have come running to help elevate this benighted, Denver-sized territory into an oasis from which the mirage of Middle East peace could blossom into reality — if Gazans had only asked.
But no.
Top Gazans had a different development strategy: pound Israel with rockets.”
We Westerners keep trying to understand the Palestinian Arabs through the lens of Western culture. Stop! They have a different culture and different cultural imperatives. There will never be two states living side by side in peace...because that’s not what they want. Their sense of justice, their shame/honor culture, demands the eradication of Israel. And unless people come to grips with that, there will continue to be piles of dead Jews.
Their worldview is 180 from the worldview of Western Culture and that's the problem. They are still inhabiting the worldview of their ancestors from the 1400's when they destroyed Al Andalus in what is now Spain.
Very well put! Thank you Gary!
MLK was a Communist dissembler.
100%.
One reads the Old Testament and this carnage runs through the ages. Yet we’re told by progressive elected leaders, teachers, religious leaders humanity has matured to a post-modern level of humanity and compassion. Remember that angry guy, the first president from “the generation we’ve been waiting for,” who intoned “the arc of history bends toward justice”?
Bull shit.
Oddly, what struck out for me in this account of madness was this:
“His automatic rifle juts out just like they do on the screen in Call of Duty. This is deliberate; ISIS did the same thing. It is the gamification of terror.”
The modern gamification of terror coupled with age-old cultivation of hate.
"We shall overcome because the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice." –Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. It is indeed long and all we can do is our best to see it bends in the right direction. Thank you, Bari, for continuing to report the truth, not only about the events of October 7 but about the disgraceful and outrageous way too many of our fellow Americans have reacted. I don't believe KJP is hard of hearing. Rather this administration is too concerned with Islamophobia and not concerned enough about antisemitism or Iran's role in this massacre.
It all depends on how you define justice. If it's the slaughter of so called colonizers, anything is fair game.
In that case we're all colonizers.
Yep.
I don’t know what to say to this. Beyond belief. Beyond any experience in my life. By far the worst of humanity. The killers and their supporters must be eliminated.
Disgusting but to be expected from savages. That footage should be mandatory viewing at all US universities. There can be no compromise, no negotiation with Hamas or any of the terrorist groups, and sorry to say, we should not try to negotiate the release of hostages as cruel as that sounds because it will only encourage more hostage taking. The terrorists count on the humanity which they utterly lack to bend to their demands. I'm sorry, but for the protection the rest, we should demand the release of hostages and walk away from the table.
They should show it on giant screens at pro-Palestine rallies. Just so everyone is clear as to exactly what they are cheering on.
People see what they want to see and support those they wish to support. Pro-Palestine rallies would view this footage either as entertainment or as something cooked up by Jews in Hollywood to fool the masses. Nobody doesn't know what happened on October 7. Forgive my cynicism, but I think you're giving these folks too much credit.
The problem is that people really are that evil. We like to pretend they aren't. But the people at these rallies genuinely are evil enough to ENJOY these horrific scenes.
Evil is in each of us…… we need God’s love to save us
Right, because I'm sure they have already watched the videos of the bloodlust.
You're right. They blame Jews for running the entertainment industry, banking, western governments, etc. whatever is at all plausible in their minds. There is no changing Iran's leadership which is funding Hamas. I just wish western governments, including ours, and the UN would stop sending money. They could send goods instead.
Beyond sickening.
You underestimate how inured our young people are to violence. They have been fed the gleeful violence of video games from childhood. They have laughed at slasher films and zombie tv shows. Rape appears pleasurable on internet porn. Ruthless comic book anti-hero’s are quoted and emulated. Showing these videos on college campuses would not have the effect you foresee.
I think you're right. And I think that's why the journalist noted that the most audible collective gasp from the journalists was when the dog was shot. We've seen movies, games, etc. our entire lives depicting humans killing each other. But we rarely see dogs being killed/abused (John Wick being an exception and that event is the catalyst in the movie for a killing spree) so it's more shocking. So I think you're right - these kids at these universities are well aware of what Hamas did. But they can "other" the Israelis as "colonizers" and then feel good about painting the terrorists as "freedom fighters". I would love to remind those kids that, by their definition, they and their families and their fellow students are "colonizers" and that most of the world is now inhabited by people who aren't indigenous to where they live. Unbelievable ignorance runs rampant at our universities.
What a world. Glad I won't be around much longer.
Way too many of us feel this way right now. I do, too. I no longer comprehend the world I live in. On any level.
I see you are a teacher. I was, too, high school. It was frustrating to see how little was absorbed and how much influence the Internet has over formative minds.
Three weeks ago, young adults were concerned with microaggressions and believed misgendering someone was "violence." Now that they're confronted with horrendous real violence, they side with the perpetrators. They have neither maturity or wisdom. The question is whether they will ever learn.
couldn't agree more. your explanation makes sense, we are used to seeing people being killed on screen, not dogs. And I volunteer for a dog rescue so I'm perfectly fine with John Wick being a dog-avenging badass lol
The research has been done umptie times. There is no correlation; let alone causation. Cinema, TV, Comics, or games, it doesn't matter whichever media this "claim" is made for: the hypothesis of correlation is always falsified.
It behoves all to be factual in these times and not promulgate lies. It makes the promulgator of the falsehood no better than those who promulgate the falshoods of Hamas.
Cite the research please, then do a bit of research into who funded it.
My comment came from real-world experience. When I started my teaching career, teenagers still got nightmares from “Chain Saw Massacre.” Now, they laugh at something so mild. Most adults do, too. Children absorb much more than you think they do. Unfortunately, many don’t have the common sense or adult guidance to process fiction from fact.
Plus, cell phones have made many complete narcissists - “It’s not me, so why should I care?” Easy to take sides when it doesn’t affect you.
Realize this- if it can happen in Israel it can happen anywhere in the West. I disagree with the speaker, I know Israel has a propaganda war to fight but let’s all be clear- Islam is very much to blame for the terrorism and barbarism we’ve witnessed and been subjected to since 622 AD. (Updated) I’m not saying all Muslims - but the religion and thought behind it is problematic. Muhammad was a warlord- he preaches to conquer.
Yes and let’s be honest. Even if Islam is 95% peaceful innocents, it’s the 5% who matter because they are the ones committing atrocities, killing their own people, and forcing their brutal dictatorships on the other 95%. Sadly the rest becomr irrelevant when this level of depravity is unleashed by the madness of the few.
Where are the voices of those 95%? WHERE ARE THEY?
I believe they tacitly support it. Have you seen that 57% of American Muslims support what Hamas did?
I don't believe there are any "moderate muslims" if they are why aren't they crying out in protest in England, the US, France, Germany and the rest of the West. The silence is deafening.
BINGO!
The giant elephant in the room. And Leftist progressives siding with Islam in the culture wars is truly strange. It’s hard to imagine two more incompatible world views, but I guess they find common ground in wanting to dismantle the Western powers.
Let me not hear one more word about the Crusades from ANYONE! Although they were conducted with Christianity as a cause, NOTHING compares to October 7th! Allahu Akbar, indeed!
Also this is 2023.
Yarmuk was 634 and Mo, Piss Be Upon Him, had already been killing Jews and Xtians for about ten years. Minor point? When a lot of folk are straight up lying it behoves to be accurate.
Live not by lies.
Point taken and I agree. I’ll update accordingly. Facts do matter.
I have two statements to make.
First, I worked alongside Muslims, male and female, for more than 30 years, both in my New York office and in several Islamic countries. I NEVER met a "Moderate Muslim". I don't believe that such a creature exists. Every Muslim that I met bought the entire Islamic program or were convinced atheists who had abandoned their ancestral faith
The program requires the conversion, subjugation, or elimination of infidels. We are the infidels. The Koran encourages Muslims to lie to infidels to advance the interests of Islam. Don't believe anything a "Moderate Muslim" speaks or writes in the American media. He/she is lying
Your friendly Pakistani or Egyptian neighbor in your big city apartment building or leafy suburban subdivision is most probably proud of the glorious attack of Hamas on the Jewish infidels. I remember Muslims in Paterson NJ dancing in the streets in jubilation on 9/11. I will NEVER forget those scenes.
Second, I am an Irish Catholic. My family members were fervent supporters of the Democratic Party throughout the 19th century and until my Dad voted against FDR in 1940. In my family, Election Day was known as Resurrection Day, because the good Democrats in Calvary Cemetery rose from the dead to vote the straight Democratic ticket
There valid reasons for the Irish of the past to vote Democratic. There were valid reasons for Jews in the past to vote Democratic. Now, a vote for a Democrat is a vote for the party that is the home of virulent anti-Semitism, and contains avid supporters of the Hamas terrorist atrocity. I ask my fellow Amerucans of the Jewish faith to consider that a vote for a Democrat at any level, local, state or national is a potential vote for further atrocities against your fellow Jews worldwide, including the United States. Reflect seriously on that
Thank you for your comment. I completely agree. The Quran calls for converting or killing all infidels. There are no other options. The sooner more people really understand this, the better off we will all be.
We should believe the documents they hold to be true. I the Koran says to kill infidels (anyone not a muslim) they will kill infidels and revel in it. Period.
I haven't heard any Republicans in Congress spouting the vile antisemetic nonsense espoused by The Squad.
It's worth noting many seem to have been given something like synthetic cocaine, to deaden their consciences, reduce fear of the death many of them met short hours later, and probably to increase their sadistic enjoyment.
And if you think about them bragging to their fathers, does that not betray indoctrination from the earliest ages? How can any sane person claim the Gazans want peace when they expose their kids to vicious, Jew hating propaganda from the earliest ages? That's not the path to peace, is it? We all know that. They know that. The Left knows that.
It is easy to get confused in this world. The first step in the direction out is to recognize this. Because being lost feels exactly like certainty.
So giving people drugs so they can go murder, maim, and kidnap gives the murderers, maimers, and kidnapers a free pass? They took the drugs voluntarily. No free pass, they are responsible for their actions.
Oh, you've invented a dopers' out? Little bit pregnant, too? Just. Stop.
I had the first impression you did, but I think this commenter was rather clumsily using it to illustrate how the Palestinians condition and brainwash their "warriors" to the point of giving them synthetic drugs to make them into killing machines, such is their hatred. I agree that it is NOT an excuse for their actions. Maybe it could have been worded a little differently so it didn't appear to be explaining away the behavior.
Read for comprehension and beyond the first paragraph, you dope. If you STILL don't get it: I advise you enrol in a remedial English class.
I _did_ read the entire post. Twice. My comment stands.
You feel certain you are right. I hear you.
Then you remain a dope.
Look up the origin of the word "assassin"; and the Nazis went to war cranked up on 'phet. Their direct kin aren't likely to be much different.
It’s not about Islam…
“Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud”
It’s not about Islam…
“ This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.”
It’s not about Islam…
“Mom, Dad, I killed ten Jews with my bare hands. Allahu akbar!”
“It’s not about Islam” is a thought-terminating cliche.
Saying this is not about Islam is like saying that the pro-Life movement is not about Christianity. Yes, if your view of Christianity expands to the borders of the International Lutheran Conference and United Church of Christ. You might have to look a bit more broadly and deeply.
Does this mean that all Muslims are complicit in this? Of course not: Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. But there is very broad support for Hamas across the Muslim world and refusing to look at that hampers thinking.
Our leaders have been looking at Islam with Nelson’s eye since 9/11 and how has that worked for us?
It's not about Islam! But let's play a thought game and come up with some examples of evangelical Christians who film themselves raping and murdering, and then celebrate it in the name of Jesus to their family.
Oddly I can't think of any
What I don’t know, is this Islam proper? Or is this Islam infused with Hitler-like fascist ideology? Either way, I agree it has more to do with Islam than not.
However, I don’t think your comparison to the pro-life being Christian is a good one. Most Christians should indeed be pro-life, but you absolutely do not need to be Christian or even religious to be pro-life. I know many secular atheists who are pro-life. Seeing an unborn human child as a distinct living human had is valuable and worthy of life is not in itself a religious argument. You may have religious reasons for seeing the unborn as worthy or valuable, but other may have secular reasons for holding the same view. I suggest you check out https://secularprolife.org/ to understand the secular reasons to be pro-life.
Actually, KB, I think you’re making my point for me. The pro-life movement is broad, but who has more weight in the community, pro-Life secularists or Catholics and Evangelical Christians? Without the latter, I would venture that the pro-Life movement would be a few souls standing outside Congress holding signs and wearing sandwich boards.
Plenty of non-Muslims support Hamas and anti-Semitic genocide too, but I wouldn’t say that negates the Islamic core behind it. As to the history, the Hamas covenant is steeped in it, and it predates Hitler by over a millennium. This is ground that was extensively covered pre- and post-9/11 by the likes of Bernard Lewis, Bat-Yeor, Robert Spencer, Mark Steyn, to name but a few.
I certainly see your point about the religious having more weight and representation in the pro-life community. But you still imply that the underlying argument for being pro-life is religious, just as the underlying core argument for Hamas is religious (Islam). I think the comparison is opposite. Yes, plenty of non-Muslims support Hamas by denying or ignoring the religious core behind it. But secular pro-lifers don’t ignore anything religious, because the core argument against abortion is simply this:
1. The human zygote, embryo, and fetus are all human organisms.
2. All human organisms are morally relevant.
3. It’s generally immoral to kill human beings.
4. Bodily rights aren’t enough to justify elective abortions.
Nothing in this is explicitly religious. A religious person might base his/her #2 claim on a religious foundation (I.e. that all human beings are morally valuable because they are all made in the image of God.) But you can also get to that claim by simply being humanist— if you value human rights, then you value humans. And anytime we have our extra requirements on who gets human rights (such as you get basic rights if you are human and not black for example, or human and not Jewish, etc.) then massive atrocities have occurred. The only requirement for basic human rights should be simply and only being a human being. Since the pre-born are members of the human species even from the earliest days of development, then they should be included. I could go more into this, but essentially you can claim #2 through the reasoning of a humanist understanding of human rights. I think most people don’t consider that religious.
If all religious pro-lifers disappeared, the movement would be small, but it would still have ground to stand on. There reasons for being pro-life won’t be swept away if the religion is.
But the opposite is true for Hamas. Take away the Islam core of Jew-hatred, and the non-relgious supporters of Hamas will have to come up with other reasons for hating Jews. (Which I am sure they can do, but that’s not the point. The point is that a secular pro-lifer doesn’t have to change the basic premise that all human life is valuable just because the religious part of their group goes away. Whereas, is Islam went away, people will need to come up with a new premise to hate the Jews.)
I take your point but, tbh, I think the comparison stands well enough w/o going into a deep-dive on the arguments surrounding abortion, about which we seem to be broadly in agreement.
The non-Islamic apologists for Hamas would appear to be moved by one of two ideas: Critical Theory/Intersectionality (whatever term one happens to use for it) for those on the left; or, on the right, some version of Nazi ideology and/or Christian identitarianism. None of that would change were Islam somehow to reform itself out of its basic Jew-hatred. If there are others, I'd be interested in knowing. Remember how certain sections of the Left gushed over the likes of the DFLP back in the day when they slaughtered kids in an elementary school. But they like the ends and the means regardless whether the motive is the wretched of the Earth rising up agains their oppressors or the reestablishment of the Caliphate.
I see your point, but if Islam didn’t have Jew-hatred built in, should the Left’s Criticial Theory then even see the Palestinians as oppressed peoples? That’s what I doubt. Seems to me that one of the drivers of the Critical Theory-Intersectionality viewpoint to support Hamas is due to the success of Hamas propaganda. Israel in real life is not an apartheid state or colonizer by any definition of those terms, nor an oppressor, yet the CT-Left sees it that way ONLY because Hamas has framed it that way knowing full well that they can weaponize the compassion of those on the Left to their viewpoint. If Islam never had this propaganda machine pushing these lies, would the Left even see Israel through this lens? I suspect not.
Nazi ideology probably more closely aligns with Islam, since both rely on the idea of one group of people being superior to another, and the inferior group becomes the scapegoat for all problems.
Most of the Left really would not want to live in an Islam world with the establishment of the Caliphate though. They don’t believe Hamas and Islam when these groups state their goals. I agree that they like the ends and means, even if motive is different, but I can’t see the Left hoping with Hamas and Islam all the way— they align in that they both want the destruction of Western civilization, but if Islam were to take over, I can’t imagine the Woke idealists who are for LGBTQ+, abortion, and other social issues simply sitting back and letting Islam kill them all. At some pint, the ideologies do diverge, but at this pint they are only aligned by a common enemy.
In contrast, a secular pro-life seeks a world in which there is no abortion. Same end goal as a religious pro-lifer. If abortion were to become unthinkable, the secular pro-lifer and the religious pro-lifer would still be united and thrilled with that outcome. That is where the comparison falls short, I think. Perhaps the Nazi ideaology fits your comparison more aptly, but I see a divergence from Woke and Islam/Hamas that I don’t think exists between secular and religious pro-life.
But regardless, it is telling for the Woke Left and what they really stand for when they align with the likes of Hamas.
Here is the 6th sentence in the Hamas Covenant of 1988. Very straightforward. You can google the entire Covenant and it is quicker to read than the Q'uran.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"
'kin 'ell, chuck. G. Jn. 8:44 antedates the Qur'an by c.400yrs, the BS estimate for the Qur'ans date of writing, or c.5-600yrs, the dating of scholars not taken in by the BS. The Greek is clear; the Xtian God is not the Jewish God: the Jewish god is the father of the Devil and the Jews. The Jewish god is both a liar and a murderer. THIS IN A GOSPEL CANONICAL ACROSS ALL CHRISTENDOM.
The "Blood Libel". The "Christ Killers". Luther, albeit as senile as Biden by then, wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies". The "Jewnited Nations". "Jew WILL NOT replace US". Jew-hate, and the weapons of Jew-hate have been there almost before Xtianity was born and still lie readily to hand.
Mohammed, if anything, stole a Xtian script. Islam is equal parts a heterodox Judaism and a Xtian heresy. Just as Xtianity is a heterodox Judaism. Read the TaNaKH, Macabees, and Josephos. Intra-Jewish "squabbling" was a thing to behold; Paddy has nowt on them! Once the three groups had decided to completley Other what were firstly just different flavours of Judaism... well first Xtendom and then the Ummah, weaponised hate and took it from what was largely a thing of homiletic fiction (The Old Testament/TaNaKh, get over it.) and reified and realised it.
Ours' and Islam's gods are one and answer not to "God" or "Yahweh"; but rather Apophis or Beliar. Put simply, for all both claim Peace and Love their middle name in absence, rather we both worship the God of Hate (One to a much lesser degree than the other, let me be clear [also to be clear, not original, but probably "Pagan" input. So no cheering!] ) where the rubber meets the road.
I can’t follow anything you say here, your writing is not clear. Please try again.
READ. THE. QUR'AN.
This is not rocket science. Unlike the TaNaKh or New Testament, it has no dissenting voices and no get-out-of-jail card. The Islam of Hamas, the Islam of the Mullahs and Ayatollahs, the Islam of the Brotherhood and the Ikwan, the Islam of the Deobandi and Wahabbi, IS Islam.
"I don't know" is the same as "Heil Hitler!" at this point. "I don't know" means "Kill the Jews! There is no God but Beliar and Hitler is his Prophet!", and has done since the World Trade Center was destroyed. You do not have an excuse for being an uneducated shill for genocides and haven't had one for twenty-odd years.
Excuse me, but I am in no way saying “I don’t know” for the morality of genocide. Unequivocally, Hamas is to be condemned.
However, I know practicing Muslims who disagree with the ideas of these terrorists groups. You know how Christians supported slavery in the past? Well they had bad theology and bad Biblical interpretation in order to support slavery, and the Christians that lead the charge to abolish slavery argued that it was bad Biblical interpretation that lead to the support of slavery. In a similar way, since I am not familiar with the Quran as much as I am with the Bible, what I don’t know is whether the Hamas-types have the better interpretation of the Quran or if the peaceful Muslims who reject Hamas rather have the better interpretation. Does this make sense?
Perhaps you are right and I simply haven’t investigated the Quran fully enough, but it is NOT an equivocation on my part to admit what I don’t know. I am simply being honest. I welcome information to correct my ignorance, but I would appreciate it done in a polite way, and not assuming that I am in any way, shape, or form supporting Hamas or the killing of Jews. I support Israel 100% and condemn Hamas unequivocally. I was simply saying that I have heard conflicting views as to which version of Islam is the “correct belief” (much like Christians do the same thing) and honestly admitting that I do not know which view aligns more with the correct interpretation of Islam.
No need to be rude here please.
K.B. I put my comment under your other comment when I meant to put it here, where it would make more sense!
Rude? Mate, I have no time for Nazis, nor for their KNOWING enablers. Sorry, you are claiming to have had your fingers in your ears for twenty-odd years singing "Lah, la-la, lah, lah" to the world. It simply won't wash. Rude? Apologies to John Paul, but I have not BEGUN to be rude.
I have no idea how saying that I don’t know which version of Islam is the “correct” one makes me a Nazi enabler.
READ. THE. QUR'AN.
My thought exactly.
Hamas’s charter is explicit in that it IS about Islam. Only an Islamic Caliphate that subjects Jews, Christians, and those of the other faiths to second tier status is the accepted answer.
A simplified version: Christians burned people at the stake, including many of each other. A thousand years ago, plus/minus, they did this reformation thingee, the result of which judgment was returned to God's hands where it always belonged. (I'll stipulate the possibility of a lunatic person or maybe even a small group that feels otherwise, notwithstanding that I've heard of none such, even with the presence of "news" "media" that are salivating over the possibility of blasting the existence of such a thing wall-to-wall.) But even the guy who introduces the present chamber of horrors gives a pass to the lot based upon the claim of "only" 5% being murderous. I. Do. Not. Understand. Islam MUST be sanctioned -- in toto -- until -- at the very least -- that alleged 95% becomes EXTREMELY vocal -- and active -- about reformation that includes explicit repudiation of that which is unacceptable.
This is what keeps occurring to me. It is obvious that there is significant support for Hamas among the "innocent civilians" in Gaza. It seems anyone with a public following is too afraid to make the point that maybe many of them aren't innocent civilians. If you support the atrocities that Hamas committed, and cheer at dead bodies in pickup trucks, can the term "innocent" really apply? Sure, they were raised that way from childhood, to hate Jews, but simply because they don't pick up a gun does that mean they are "innocent civilians", which in the West we conflate with ourselves, the average person who has no overriding animus even comparable to the Jew-hatred we see in Palestine.
Compare them to the non-combatant Germans during WWII. How are they different? Are they better or worse? I would argue worse since they did not have direct video evidence of the horrible actions of their government. But these people do and still seem to support it, glory in it even.
Also, the Allies bombed the hell out of Germany and Japan because it was necessary to win the war. The "home front" became so much more important, especially in Japan, where "innocent civilians" were required to machine parts for planes and weapons in their own homes, using presses and lathes, dispersing the industrial capacity throughout the population so it couldn't easily be targeted by bombing. This is what Hamas has done. I don't like what this conflict is doing to me mentally, and I'm 5,000 miles away and not even Jewish. But I also think more and more that the people who openly or even quietly support this type of animalistic, nihilistic behavior are a blot on the human race. There can be no reconciliation or agreement with people who are ok with this.
Thank you for sharing. Good vs Evil. Right and Wrong. I am uniquely horrified in a way that I never have previously been about what we saw unfold, but worse, how the world, and particularly how so many groups and institutions in our country, are reacting.
This is why the members of the squad have to be removed from office. They don't merely have different points of view. They are vile creatures who use their positions to spew out anti-semitism. AOC, in some ways, is much worse. She is Puerto Rican from a middle class background; college educated. She has latched on to the hate and shows no signs of letting go. They are all operating against our country; their allegiance is not to the United States.
No. Leave them in place so we know the Congressional districts where the vile predominate.
I wonder if we should all see this footage. One of the most profound events of my young life was watching a program about the holocaust with my parents and seeing the bodies pushed into a mass grave. I came away changed. I come from Christian parents but the lesson I learned was both Never Again as well as the fact that apparently “average people” could let this happen or turn their gaze away and ignore it.
This young generation who seem so filled with acceptance of Hamas should see this in all of its brutality and maybe, just maybe this will disabuse them of their rhetoric and slogans
I agree. I saw those Holocaust reels as a teenager too, and there is nothing quite like seeing bulldozers push hundreds of skeletal bodies into a hole. Or the bodies stacked up to the ceiling. You have to see it with your own eyes, not just read about it. And amazingly, even with those images available for many decades, there are still Holocaust-deniers. Like, how could that possibly be faked? So I suspect there would still be deniers with this, but it would still open a lot of people's eyes.
I have wondered about this too. It is far different to read about people watching a file compared with watching that film for ones self.
That's why Eisenhower told the photographers to take a lot of pictures. He wanted documentation of the Holocaust so people could never say it didn't happen, and yet, here we are with Holocaust deniers. I'm not sure this evidence would make a difference.
I’ve been reading TheFP daily and more than once a day since Oct 7. I truly appreciate your coverage. This article said 200 journalists were there. I’ve been looking at various sites to see if anyone else has printed anything. Could you point me to some other journalists that have written about the video coverage event for journalists?
Had the same thought- why are we not seeing more reports from this event, why aren’t we hearing from “journalists” - I know the answer...
The BBC and the Daily Mail reported on the same event.