In Bari’s view, Freddie deBoer is one of the best writers in the country. It’s not because she always agrees with him. Hardly. Freddie is a self-described Marxist. What she appreciates about him is that he is unflinching about criticizing “his side.” Freddie is one of the most trenchant critics of what he calls “Social Justice Politics”—which he argues distracts the left from the real issue of class.
I was so excited to see that you had Freddie on this episode. His video response to the NYT article was amazing, and his "sometimes people need help more than they need acceptance" is a RADICAL message that America needs to hear. I've already sent this one to several people. Great work.
I will be listening to this in full tomorrow morning. I just had one quick thought after the summary. Ever notice how mental illness is glorified until they don't like someone? And then quite a few of them will use it as a subtle (or not so subtle) insult. For example, when a certain Twitter exec was caught on camera using Elon's supposed Aspbergers diagnosis as a method of dismissing his opinions.
Edit: I realize Aspberger's is not considered an illness, though I do think the people I'm referring to treat both mental illness and disabilities in this way.
As someone who is on the spectrum, I 100% agree with his take on the fetishization of ASD. Yes, I suffer some issues, but I'm completely independent (and have been from age 18), am financially stable, have friends, own my own home and business, and so on. To ignore the real and pressing needs of people with more severe cases in order to feed one's own ego strikes me as obscene. I'm one of the lucky ones for whom ASD can be relegated to the status of an annoying quirk. I'm grateful for that, and respect that a lot of others are not in my position, and they and their families need (and deserve) all the support they can get. Hats off to Freddie for being willing to take this trend on.
I am, perhaps, an anomaly to the comments on this Substack. I am not a progressive or liberal, but I so enjoy anything Bari Weiss writes or her podcast interviews, whether or not I agree with her position or the views of her guests. I would want this interview to be heard by a national audience. It is spot on. Free minds of the right or left need to form a new center to steer our society back to civility and truly common sense. Without a middle, we are lost. I am at the end of my career as a psychiatrist, and I have seen much nonsense, such as the conflation of science with pseudoscience. The misattribution of political correctness or wokeness for settled science. Physicians, and psychiatrists in particular, risk their careers and livelihoods for openly contesting nonsense. We are living through a woke inquisition where the mob is the grand inquisitor. Western medicine uses a common parlance known as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual(DSM), now in its fifth edition, to define psychiatric illnesses. Many have described it as science by committee, an oxymoron. I prefer to reference John Godfrey Saxe, “Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made." The DSM is made much like sausage. As years go on, we have seen the definition of autism, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and even depression get expanded to include all the permutations of the normal human condition. Not all existential sadness is a clinical depression. Not every response to boredom or academic limitation is ADHD. Not every personality disordered rageaholic is bipolar. The new underlying ethic of diagnosis is that no one is accountable for bad behavior, as bad behavior must stem from some bad biology. Consider autism. The classic triad is impaired relatedness, impaired cognition, and impaired language; this is wide net. I had to laugh when Daryl Hannah disclosed that she was diagnosed as autistic as a child……..it would be quite difficult for someone with impaired relatedness to participate in the complexities and nuances of acting……I posit misdiagnosis at a time(when she was a child) when the DSM II was used, which was a document with significant psychoanalytic (read mythological) underpinnings. Social anxiety and avoidant personality disorders are often diagnosed as autism. We live in a time when self-mutilation is performance art and no reason for concern. While we should all live and let live and “you do you”, it would be idiotic not to identify dangerous social contagion, such as the explosion in transgenderism. Prof. Lisa Littman at Brown University was censured and almost cancelled academically for a paper on making the distinction between early onset and late onset transgenderism. August institutions like Harvard are at the forefront of correct thought and robust woke branding in providing any treatment that the public wants, including chemical and surgical interventions for transitions children. There will most certainly be a backlash in another generation to the stupidities and cynicism of the current historical moment. I once treated tween girl from a religious Christian family who was ostracized by peers in her middle school where over half of her classmates were either trans on nonbinary (this is not hyperbole). While I believe that we should all accept others as they come, I do not believe that we need to embrace their worldviews because of their hunger for global validation. We live in a time when influencers hold more sway in public views than true experts. “Science” is now in the service of politics. We no longer know who is a true expert.
I was so glad to see Freddie's response as well as this podcast. Disabilities and accommodations are so complicated, in part because the term disability covers such a broad range. I manage anxiety and my son has ASD, ADHD, and anxiety. He's a bright kid, but he is learning how to manage so much, as is appropriate for a 12 year old boy, in addition to his diagnoses. As his mother, my goals are that he be as independent as possible, know how to interpret unspoken rules in social/educational/work situations (there are so many). He's a bright kid and wants to succeed. At the same time, he really benefits from guidance in identifying his emotions, what to do about them, as well as how to communicate all of this to the neurotypical world. It's complicated. And at a certain level, being able to work with the neurotypical world will benefit him, as unfair as it may be.
Overidentification with a disability doesn't work, ultimately. That's in part why the person -first language developed. And that was a fight. The disability does not define a person, though, in the case of autism, there is a case for its strong influence on personality. Still, conversely, a person can be an asshole outside of their disability. In other words, the diagnosis is not absolution for the consequences, and definitely not a justification, though it may help explain the circumstances. While accommodation is necessary, a disability in the long run does make life more difficult, if not much more difficult, for many. Signed, a professional and mother who regularly interacts with people who have disabilities.
"Freddie is one of the most trenchant critics of what he calls “Social Justice Politics”—which he argues distracts the left from the real issue of class."
Freddie has missed the fact that the Left pivoted from class to demographics because it got thoroughly destroyed in the logical debate over class. The pre-SJW Left was Stalin. Only by dragging "oppression" in to the realm of the subjective and unfalsifiable does left-wing ideology stand a chance.
I’m not 💯 certain but I believe This is the same person who wrote an article on this issue for another site. I posted a comment regarding my personal experience of raising a now 20 yr old daughter with ADHD/Autism. It was never a self diagnosis nor was it a sudden revelation based on behaviors described on Tik Tok. She was diagnosed a 3 and it’s been a long road for her and us. I do know she prefers to not be defined by it and her wish was always to be like everyone else. A human with her own unique struggles.
That being said the podcast touched on the mental health of mass shooters.
A few years ago I attended a play about suicide and gun control. It was written by a person who lost a loved one and believes we need stronger gun laws.
They had a “town hall” discussion after the play lead by 2 mental health professionals. One specifically a psychiatrist the other I believe was a therapist,
I stood and asked about mental health and looking into early interventions, increasing awareness of signs to look for, access to resources etc.
I have no illusions that navigating mental health issues is easy nor is finding the right answers or solutions.
But what struck me that evening and I have never been able to forget is the Dr. responded with a condescending tone and said “Mentally ill people are not the ones going out and shooting people”
I cannot make sense of it. Is it mentally healthy people who commit suicide or violence onto others?
What is going on here? I’m open to hearing from anyone who could make it make sense.
Freddie deBoer found the NY Times article alarming because it was so unbalanced. He seems surprised that they didn't include a hint of an opposing view. Maybe he will consider that this is how the NY Times covers so many topics. That would be nice.
Good podcast. I learned that a man took responsibility for his life and that is IT right there. The need for people to 'be seen' is the opposite. Everybody is a 'winner' these days. Freddy's view on Marxism is the same "But we haven't tried it my way yet." All Marxism leads to death as our own Governor William Bradford found out in our early colonies and it is all around us today with forced vaccinations leading to many deaths. Marxism means some control others, nothing more. No personal choices. I experienced it in East Germany. Today's example is energy, democrats completely shut down ALL energy development in the U.S. and prices are literally destroying people.
Health care problem? Insurance and Pharm companies control it by buying government to control; there is no free market forces at all. Can you shop and make choices? No, you are subjected to protocol's designed by said others, not doctors. Can you choose to have Ivermectin(which works well with zinc) prescribed by a thinking doctor to help with your virus? No, you are to wait until you are sick and then we put you on a ventilator and give you Remdecivir(not FDA approved) and most likely die.
The free market response to faux pandemics like WuFlu is to listen to professional doctors like Marty Makary, Peter McCollough, and Zev Zelenko(RIP) and their proven treatments that work.
The free market response to fake news is to subscribe to Bari's substack which we love. :-D
Speaking as someone who has a "cool" job (I create comic books, host a podcast and build web sites – all as part of my own business) the idea that movies and TV have shaped people into wanting cool jobs and not becoming actual adults is something i see constantly in the generational gaps. These movies and TV shows and comics have become their religion.
Almost 50% of the population will experience mental illness. The DSM-5: places mental illness in four categories: major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder—all with varying degrees of severity. As a society, we need to reduce the stigma and discrimination against people with mental health disorders. Still, we certainly don’t need to make light of mental health problems, particularly with a child or a mother, etc., dying every 11 minutes; additionally, a large percentage of them ending up in prison. If we lessen the stigma and make treatment more readily available, we will have a healthier and happier America. In the clip below, you can hear the pain in Freddie deBoer’s voice when talking about taking lithium.
I was so excited to see that you had Freddie on this episode. His video response to the NYT article was amazing, and his "sometimes people need help more than they need acceptance" is a RADICAL message that America needs to hear. I've already sent this one to several people. Great work.
I will be listening to this in full tomorrow morning. I just had one quick thought after the summary. Ever notice how mental illness is glorified until they don't like someone? And then quite a few of them will use it as a subtle (or not so subtle) insult. For example, when a certain Twitter exec was caught on camera using Elon's supposed Aspbergers diagnosis as a method of dismissing his opinions.
Edit: I realize Aspberger's is not considered an illness, though I do think the people I'm referring to treat both mental illness and disabilities in this way.
As someone who is on the spectrum, I 100% agree with his take on the fetishization of ASD. Yes, I suffer some issues, but I'm completely independent (and have been from age 18), am financially stable, have friends, own my own home and business, and so on. To ignore the real and pressing needs of people with more severe cases in order to feed one's own ego strikes me as obscene. I'm one of the lucky ones for whom ASD can be relegated to the status of an annoying quirk. I'm grateful for that, and respect that a lot of others are not in my position, and they and their families need (and deserve) all the support they can get. Hats off to Freddie for being willing to take this trend on.
I am, perhaps, an anomaly to the comments on this Substack. I am not a progressive or liberal, but I so enjoy anything Bari Weiss writes or her podcast interviews, whether or not I agree with her position or the views of her guests. I would want this interview to be heard by a national audience. It is spot on. Free minds of the right or left need to form a new center to steer our society back to civility and truly common sense. Without a middle, we are lost. I am at the end of my career as a psychiatrist, and I have seen much nonsense, such as the conflation of science with pseudoscience. The misattribution of political correctness or wokeness for settled science. Physicians, and psychiatrists in particular, risk their careers and livelihoods for openly contesting nonsense. We are living through a woke inquisition where the mob is the grand inquisitor. Western medicine uses a common parlance known as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual(DSM), now in its fifth edition, to define psychiatric illnesses. Many have described it as science by committee, an oxymoron. I prefer to reference John Godfrey Saxe, “Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made." The DSM is made much like sausage. As years go on, we have seen the definition of autism, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and even depression get expanded to include all the permutations of the normal human condition. Not all existential sadness is a clinical depression. Not every response to boredom or academic limitation is ADHD. Not every personality disordered rageaholic is bipolar. The new underlying ethic of diagnosis is that no one is accountable for bad behavior, as bad behavior must stem from some bad biology. Consider autism. The classic triad is impaired relatedness, impaired cognition, and impaired language; this is wide net. I had to laugh when Daryl Hannah disclosed that she was diagnosed as autistic as a child……..it would be quite difficult for someone with impaired relatedness to participate in the complexities and nuances of acting……I posit misdiagnosis at a time(when she was a child) when the DSM II was used, which was a document with significant psychoanalytic (read mythological) underpinnings. Social anxiety and avoidant personality disorders are often diagnosed as autism. We live in a time when self-mutilation is performance art and no reason for concern. While we should all live and let live and “you do you”, it would be idiotic not to identify dangerous social contagion, such as the explosion in transgenderism. Prof. Lisa Littman at Brown University was censured and almost cancelled academically for a paper on making the distinction between early onset and late onset transgenderism. August institutions like Harvard are at the forefront of correct thought and robust woke branding in providing any treatment that the public wants, including chemical and surgical interventions for transitions children. There will most certainly be a backlash in another generation to the stupidities and cynicism of the current historical moment. I once treated tween girl from a religious Christian family who was ostracized by peers in her middle school where over half of her classmates were either trans on nonbinary (this is not hyperbole). While I believe that we should all accept others as they come, I do not believe that we need to embrace their worldviews because of their hunger for global validation. We live in a time when influencers hold more sway in public views than true experts. “Science” is now in the service of politics. We no longer know who is a true expert.
Mental Illness is both the cause and the product of the Ministry of Truth.
I was so glad to see Freddie's response as well as this podcast. Disabilities and accommodations are so complicated, in part because the term disability covers such a broad range. I manage anxiety and my son has ASD, ADHD, and anxiety. He's a bright kid, but he is learning how to manage so much, as is appropriate for a 12 year old boy, in addition to his diagnoses. As his mother, my goals are that he be as independent as possible, know how to interpret unspoken rules in social/educational/work situations (there are so many). He's a bright kid and wants to succeed. At the same time, he really benefits from guidance in identifying his emotions, what to do about them, as well as how to communicate all of this to the neurotypical world. It's complicated. And at a certain level, being able to work with the neurotypical world will benefit him, as unfair as it may be.
Overidentification with a disability doesn't work, ultimately. That's in part why the person -first language developed. And that was a fight. The disability does not define a person, though, in the case of autism, there is a case for its strong influence on personality. Still, conversely, a person can be an asshole outside of their disability. In other words, the diagnosis is not absolution for the consequences, and definitely not a justification, though it may help explain the circumstances. While accommodation is necessary, a disability in the long run does make life more difficult, if not much more difficult, for many. Signed, a professional and mother who regularly interacts with people who have disabilities.
"Freddie is one of the most trenchant critics of what he calls “Social Justice Politics”—which he argues distracts the left from the real issue of class."
Freddie has missed the fact that the Left pivoted from class to demographics because it got thoroughly destroyed in the logical debate over class. The pre-SJW Left was Stalin. Only by dragging "oppression" in to the realm of the subjective and unfalsifiable does left-wing ideology stand a chance.
I’m not 💯 certain but I believe This is the same person who wrote an article on this issue for another site. I posted a comment regarding my personal experience of raising a now 20 yr old daughter with ADHD/Autism. It was never a self diagnosis nor was it a sudden revelation based on behaviors described on Tik Tok. She was diagnosed a 3 and it’s been a long road for her and us. I do know she prefers to not be defined by it and her wish was always to be like everyone else. A human with her own unique struggles.
That being said the podcast touched on the mental health of mass shooters.
A few years ago I attended a play about suicide and gun control. It was written by a person who lost a loved one and believes we need stronger gun laws.
They had a “town hall” discussion after the play lead by 2 mental health professionals. One specifically a psychiatrist the other I believe was a therapist,
I stood and asked about mental health and looking into early interventions, increasing awareness of signs to look for, access to resources etc.
I have no illusions that navigating mental health issues is easy nor is finding the right answers or solutions.
But what struck me that evening and I have never been able to forget is the Dr. responded with a condescending tone and said “Mentally ill people are not the ones going out and shooting people”
I cannot make sense of it. Is it mentally healthy people who commit suicide or violence onto others?
What is going on here? I’m open to hearing from anyone who could make it make sense.
Freddie deBoer found the NY Times article alarming because it was so unbalanced. He seems surprised that they didn't include a hint of an opposing view. Maybe he will consider that this is how the NY Times covers so many topics. That would be nice.
Thank you for another excellent interview Bari. You are the best in the business!
Good podcast. I learned that a man took responsibility for his life and that is IT right there. The need for people to 'be seen' is the opposite. Everybody is a 'winner' these days. Freddy's view on Marxism is the same "But we haven't tried it my way yet." All Marxism leads to death as our own Governor William Bradford found out in our early colonies and it is all around us today with forced vaccinations leading to many deaths. Marxism means some control others, nothing more. No personal choices. I experienced it in East Germany. Today's example is energy, democrats completely shut down ALL energy development in the U.S. and prices are literally destroying people.
Health care problem? Insurance and Pharm companies control it by buying government to control; there is no free market forces at all. Can you shop and make choices? No, you are subjected to protocol's designed by said others, not doctors. Can you choose to have Ivermectin(which works well with zinc) prescribed by a thinking doctor to help with your virus? No, you are to wait until you are sick and then we put you on a ventilator and give you Remdecivir(not FDA approved) and most likely die.
The free market response to faux pandemics like WuFlu is to listen to professional doctors like Marty Makary, Peter McCollough, and Zev Zelenko(RIP) and their proven treatments that work.
The free market response to fake news is to subscribe to Bari's substack which we love. :-D
Speaking as someone who has a "cool" job (I create comic books, host a podcast and build web sites – all as part of my own business) the idea that movies and TV have shaped people into wanting cool jobs and not becoming actual adults is something i see constantly in the generational gaps. These movies and TV shows and comics have become their religion.
Wow. Amazing.
I think you are amazing and provide invaluable insight and context to social and political issues. Your book on anti-semitism was brilliant.
But why are you referring to yourself in the third person?
Could you provide links to 17 Theses, NYT article and Freddie's response video?
THE SOUND OF SILENCE IS DEAFENING!
Almost 50% of the population will experience mental illness. The DSM-5: places mental illness in four categories: major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder—all with varying degrees of severity. As a society, we need to reduce the stigma and discrimination against people with mental health disorders. Still, we certainly don’t need to make light of mental health problems, particularly with a child or a mother, etc., dying every 11 minutes; additionally, a large percentage of them ending up in prison. If we lessen the stigma and make treatment more readily available, we will have a healthier and happier America. In the clip below, you can hear the pain in Freddie deBoer’s voice when talking about taking lithium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKB6F_VYuZY