It seems like it is killing, but is there never an instance where killing is acceptable? Self-defense? War? Should a rape victim carry her assailant's child? If not, then sometimes killing is ok.
Maybe the pro-choice crowd needs to admit that it is killing, and the pro-life crowd needs to admit that in certain, limited circumstances, it's ok.
'Maybe the pro-choice crowd needs to admit that it is killing, and the pro-life crowd needs to admit that in certain, limited circumstances, it's ok.'
There's a symmetry to that which I like, Current.
Perhaps we can apply that same standard to gun control:
Maybe the pro-gun 2nd Amendment crowd will admit that it is indiscriminate killing, and endorse banning the sale of AR-15's - and the gun control crowd will, in limited circumstances, admit that, with the 350 million guns left over, some killing is ok.
Maybe it's easier to think about the death penalty that way, another issue where I go back and forth. Have those in favor admit that some innocent people will die, and those opposed admit that some crimes warrant it and it's the only way to protect people from "criminal justice reform" that puts dangerous felons back on the street.
Are you saying that it's ok to kill innocent children in war? Even in war we do not accept killing innocent civilians. Who is the unborn child, if not an innocent civilian -- An innocent life, caught in the crossfire?
No, I'm not saying it's ok to kill innocent children in war. I'm pointing out that very few of us are Shaker-style pacifists. This means that we accept that sometimes we cause the deaths of innocent civilians, but take every measure to avoid it. Or at least we should.
The problem is, and I am a pro-lifer who came to be so when I saw my son's first sonogram, is that even a child that is conceived in rape is a separate human being. I really truly don't know the answer, but I do know that people who were conceived in rape and are functioning adults certainly didn't want to be aborted. I can't get past the fact that all of us were embryos and fetuses so why did we get protection and others didn't and don't. I agree it is a super emotional and difficult issue.
What is weird is that IF abortion was found to be the murder of another human being those in favor of it would NOT change their position. So the "its' a life" argument is futile. The killing of old people and disabled will be the next national argument. Life is not a consideration with many, many people. Was there a huge out cry in Nazi Germany over the genocide of millions Jewish mothers, grandparents and children and many others during WW 2? When it comes to peoples desires for "something" you can bet morality is the last consideration. Gonna have to wait for judgement day to even the scales. If there is no God I guess Hitler, Pol Pot and other mass killers win.
It seems that old people, besides being irrelevant, are disposable. We blame the shakiness of Social SecurityтАЩs finances on their longevity, not politiciansтАЩ lack of good planning and want to limit earned benefits but give UBI to drug addicts. Then we compensate with assisted suicide laws to give them dignity and human composting to make them useful. Basically saving money, getting rid of the old codgers and growing vegetables with their remains all at the same time. Win-win? Add that to their celebration of abortion and it is an ugly picture of the appalling way progressives view life at both ends of a lifetime. That is what compassion looks like to them.
You are correct. For most pro-abortion people, they are totally fine with ending a human life. I mean that is the whole point, is it not? If a pregnant mother didn't end the baby's life then she would give birth to a living baby. They justify it on reasons of "it's a tiny clump of cells" or "it doesn't feel pain." Or the rape/incest/health of the mother reason, which is really just a legal loophole that allows abortions up to birth if you can find a sympathetic doctor (usually also your abortionist).
Ms. Hontz,
You are super pro abortion. I will not argue with you or try to change your mind.
But what if, maybe, abortion is really killing another human being? It might be.
It seems like it is killing, but is there never an instance where killing is acceptable? Self-defense? War? Should a rape victim carry her assailant's child? If not, then sometimes killing is ok.
Maybe the pro-choice crowd needs to admit that it is killing, and the pro-life crowd needs to admit that in certain, limited circumstances, it's ok.
'Maybe the pro-choice crowd needs to admit that it is killing, and the pro-life crowd needs to admit that in certain, limited circumstances, it's ok.'
There's a symmetry to that which I like, Current.
Perhaps we can apply that same standard to gun control:
Maybe the pro-gun 2nd Amendment crowd will admit that it is indiscriminate killing, and endorse banning the sale of AR-15's - and the gun control crowd will, in limited circumstances, admit that, with the 350 million guns left over, some killing is ok.
Or something like that.
Interesting.
Maybe it's easier to think about the death penalty that way, another issue where I go back and forth. Have those in favor admit that some innocent people will die, and those opposed admit that some crimes warrant it and it's the only way to protect people from "criminal justice reform" that puts dangerous felons back on the street.
Are you saying that it's ok to kill innocent children in war? Even in war we do not accept killing innocent civilians. Who is the unborn child, if not an innocent civilian -- An innocent life, caught in the crossfire?
No, I'm not saying it's ok to kill innocent children in war. I'm pointing out that very few of us are Shaker-style pacifists. This means that we accept that sometimes we cause the deaths of innocent civilians, but take every measure to avoid it. Or at least we should.
The problem is, and I am a pro-lifer who came to be so when I saw my son's first sonogram, is that even a child that is conceived in rape is a separate human being. I really truly don't know the answer, but I do know that people who were conceived in rape and are functioning adults certainly didn't want to be aborted. I can't get past the fact that all of us were embryos and fetuses so why did we get protection and others didn't and don't. I agree it is a super emotional and difficult issue.
Because our mama saw to it.
What a great comment. No BS buzz words. Just pure logic sans emotion. This is how honest conversations lead to solutions.
I agree that it is an honest comment. But how does it lead to solutions?
Because 1) it acknowledges there are no perfect solutions and 2).it eliminates the emotional aspect of the dilemma.
100% Lynne
What is weird is that IF abortion was found to be the murder of another human being those in favor of it would NOT change their position. So the "its' a life" argument is futile. The killing of old people and disabled will be the next national argument. Life is not a consideration with many, many people. Was there a huge out cry in Nazi Germany over the genocide of millions Jewish mothers, grandparents and children and many others during WW 2? When it comes to peoples desires for "something" you can bet morality is the last consideration. Gonna have to wait for judgement day to even the scales. If there is no God I guess Hitler, Pol Pot and other mass killers win.
It seems that old people, besides being irrelevant, are disposable. We blame the shakiness of Social SecurityтАЩs finances on their longevity, not politiciansтАЩ lack of good planning and want to limit earned benefits but give UBI to drug addicts. Then we compensate with assisted suicide laws to give them dignity and human composting to make them useful. Basically saving money, getting rid of the old codgers and growing vegetables with their remains all at the same time. Win-win? Add that to their celebration of abortion and it is an ugly picture of the appalling way progressives view life at both ends of a lifetime. That is what compassion looks like to them.
You are correct. For most pro-abortion people, they are totally fine with ending a human life. I mean that is the whole point, is it not? If a pregnant mother didn't end the baby's life then she would give birth to a living baby. They justify it on reasons of "it's a tiny clump of cells" or "it doesn't feel pain." Or the rape/incest/health of the mother reason, which is really just a legal loophole that allows abortions up to birth if you can find a sympathetic doctor (usually also your abortionist).
Just look at what Canada is doing with assisted suicide! Damn, it's astonishing.