I am pro choice with limitations. I have worked in the operating room decades in hospitals that did terminations. The risk to a mother's life as a reason to abort is rare as is fetal anomalies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. What I am saying is too many women today use abortion like it's birth control and termination of a pregnancy up…
I am pro choice with limitations. I have worked in the operating room decades in hospitals that did terminations. The risk to a mother's life as a reason to abort is rare as is fetal anomalies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. What I am saying is too many women today use abortion like it's birth control and termination of a pregnancy up until 9 months for any reason whatsoever is immoral. I am pro choice within reason.
I feel the same! I can’t understand why the Democrats while they had control of both the house and senate couldn’t have tried to pass an abortion law. I know it would also take some Republicans to vote in favor but lets face it many conservative women are pro choice!!! This is such a political football. The state of Maine where I live has such liberal abortion laws and states like Florida 6 weeks!!! The extremes in the country strike again😡
If the laws were more moderate I don't think we would be in this situation. Unfortunately, the very liberal extremes allowing abortion at any time and for any reason and the numbers of women using it as a birth control method brought us here IMHO.
I would guess (hope?) your simple, thoughtful, and concise statement represents how most people feel. Comment threads are mostly loaded with extremest. Thank you for not being one of them.
It is unfortunately quite common for women to have more than one abortion, though they don’t necessarily talk about it casually. (Of course you can always find a few shouting about their multiple abortions over at SYA where they have made a religious cult of abortion on demand.)
You are correct that abortion is traumatizing though. This is well born out in studies showing that women who experience abortion are more likely to struggle with depression, sexual dysfunction, drug addiction, sexual abuse, and suicide.
And I know one who has also had three. She used it as birth control....said she didn't like other birth control. The child she gave birth to had Downs.
It is. They rationalize it, but there is regret. One is childless and the other had fertility issues (surprise) and was only able to bring one "wanted" child to term.
I mean no disrespect, but I am curious. If, given a healthy pregnancy and normal 20-week fetal assessment, what reason is, to you, justifiable for abortion at this point?
The term Pro Choice implies that you support "the right" to abortion up to birth. And usually paid by the State. And if you are a fanatic like Obama, even after birth. He voted against Illinois' Born Alive Infant Protection Act 4 times.
Those exceptions are routinely used to justify abortions up to birth. All you need is a "doctor" to sign off on it. And frequently the "doctor" is the abortionist.
Pro-life with limitations is the same things as Pro-choice with limitations, really. It just sounds terrible to say it the first way. But it's true of everyone who is pro-life.
I'm pro-life. But I accept that 1) there must be compromise, 2) there must be limitations, 3) the life of the mother takes precedence, 4) if the baby is viable and the mother's life is at risk abortion shouldn't be the first option.
A lot of pro-lifers would deny me the label of being pro-life.
Your name suits you. Only fanatics say the life of the unborn child should have precedence over the life of the mother. That does not make you Pro life.
Unfortunately I don't think everyone who is Pro Life thinks like you or I. I can appreciate it sounds better to be Pro Life and still support abortion with limitations. However there are some very staunch far right conservatives who want all abortion outlawed.
Claudia, people ARE educated about birth control. You can search high and low and you will not find a sexually active person who doesn't know that birth control exists and how to get/use it. They simply choose not to use it - in part because they're rolling the dice and think there will be no consequences, and in part because abortion is available as an "out."
Legal, easy abortion will achieve nothing else but high rates of abortion as birth control. That is a fact like gravity is a fact. We have fifty years of data to prove it. So "pro-choice within reason" unfortunately is de facto pro-abortion.
Well I think you're onto something there. I think it's a major problem that neither side absolutely refuse to talk about birth control. The pro-choice left doesn't want to talk about it because they would have to admit it is an option to stop unwanted pregnancies to begin with. The anti-abortion right doesn't want to talk about it...why? I can't think of any good reason other than that they have some moral hangups about sex, and in truth they don't even want women to use contraceptives.
While you're right that people are educated about it, clearly we need more than facts being available. We need a full-on social campaign like campaign against drunk driving, or the campaign against cigarette smoking. Both of which had been successful. But instead, both sides rush to the farthest point of extremes instead of coming together on this where they can compromise and actually make abortions obsolete except in cases of necessary exceptions. Or don't compromise, but wage a one-side campaign drive to advocating contraceptions. That neither side would do this should tell you that solving abortions is not their real priority.
Most anti-abortion people are not against contraception as a way to reduce the need for abortion. Catholics may be against it but they do not work to outlaw it - only to ensure that they not be forced to use it or fund it.
I would argue that the pro-abortion left is not interested in making abortions obsolete at all. Quite the opposite - there are campaigns to get women to state that they had an abortion and are proud of having done so. They receive enormous amounts of money in the form of political donations (like from Planned Parenthood) to keep abortion going. The abortion industry goes beyond abortion itself to the selling of baby parts (though they claim it is cost recovery).
I think that the perception that the center is somehow better than either extreme is often misguided - maybe always misguided. Is there a centrist position on slavery? Were abolitionists too extreme? (Leaving political violence out of it for the purposes of argument.)
The only way to make abortions obsolete is to outlaw abortion. Of course there will always be back alley abortions, but no one will get serious about contraception on a massive scale until abortion is removed as an option.
Outlawing abortion won't make abortions obsolete. Abortion was illegal until recent times. All that did was drive abortions underground and women died from black alley abortions. Maybe you're too young to remember the coat hangers. Or maybe your approach is out of sight, out of mind.
You can make abortions obsolete by starting a campaign for men to stop having sex unless it's a woman they are certain they want to have a child with, and they have the woman's agreement that they want to start a family and she would carry to terms if she get pregnant. The whole problem is within men's ability to solve right now. Women can't force men to have sex. Instead of going after women when it's too late, go make it illegal for men to impregnate women who aren't their wives and willing to have a child with them.
You won't make it illegal to kill your own baby but you want to make it illegal for consenting adults to have sex? That's some serious pretzel logic.
No, outlawing abortion won't make it obsolete. Nothing will make it obsolete, sadly. But outlawing it will mean a lot fewer murdered babies. And will result in a lot less irresponsible sex.
Where did I say anything about making it illegal for adults to have sex? I never said that. I talked about a campaign to get men to stop, as in voluntarily. Your immediate jump to the law indicates that you have some catastrophic assumptions when it comes to people who argue on the other side.
Personally I would like to get all this out of the law arena, and everyone who really cares about this would focus on persuasions and changing hearts and minds instead, with an all out campaign to get everyone to practice responsible sex. I don’t share your view on abortions but nothing would make me happier than to see PP completely dismantled right now.
Outlawing abortions won’t mean fewer abortions. It would just mean that women with means to travel can get it in another state or another country if need be. Traveling doesn’t even cost that much nowadays. That’s why you are not seeing the pushback as I’m the past. And the law will subject only the poorest women to seeking illegal back alley abortions like the old days.
"Instead of going after women when it's too late, go make it illegal for men to impregnate women who aren't their wives and willing to have a child with them."
That's what I am referring to.
Of course outlawing abortions will lead to fewer abortions. That's why the abortion industry is fighting these laws. They pretend to care about women, but what they really care about is the bottom line.
I'm glad that at least we agree about PP being dismantled and about promoting responsible sex. My point is that humans being humans, many will never behave responsibly unless/until there are serious consequences for irresponsible behavior (such as DWI for driving drunk). Of course it won't eliminate all irresponsible behavior but it will help. Simply promoting responsible sex and birth control (which has been done for decades including in the schools) is not enough. Obviously.
In addition, killing babies in the womb is murder and should be illegal. Regardless of what impact it will have on sexual behavior.
I am pro choice with limitations. I have worked in the operating room decades in hospitals that did terminations. The risk to a mother's life as a reason to abort is rare as is fetal anomalies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. What I am saying is too many women today use abortion like it's birth control and termination of a pregnancy up until 9 months for any reason whatsoever is immoral. I am pro choice within reason.
I feel the same! I can’t understand why the Democrats while they had control of both the house and senate couldn’t have tried to pass an abortion law. I know it would also take some Republicans to vote in favor but lets face it many conservative women are pro choice!!! This is such a political football. The state of Maine where I live has such liberal abortion laws and states like Florida 6 weeks!!! The extremes in the country strike again😡
If the laws were more moderate I don't think we would be in this situation. Unfortunately, the very liberal extremes allowing abortion at any time and for any reason and the numbers of women using it as a birth control method brought us here IMHO.
I would guess (hope?) your simple, thoughtful, and concise statement represents how most people feel. Comment threads are mostly loaded with extremest. Thank you for not being one of them.
I have only met one woman who had more then one abortion. Most woman find it physically and emotionally very difficult
It is unfortunately quite common for women to have more than one abortion, though they don’t necessarily talk about it casually. (Of course you can always find a few shouting about their multiple abortions over at SYA where they have made a religious cult of abortion on demand.)
You are correct that abortion is traumatizing though. This is well born out in studies showing that women who experience abortion are more likely to struggle with depression, sexual dysfunction, drug addiction, sexual abuse, and suicide.
My ex girlfriend had three. With me. (Not something to be proud of..)
On her fourth pregnancy she found out too late - and he's now 36..
That you know of.
I know two women who have each had three. They're simply the only ones who have admitted it.
And I know one who has also had three. She used it as birth control....said she didn't like other birth control. The child she gave birth to had Downs.
That is horrifying.
It is. They rationalize it, but there is regret. One is childless and the other had fertility issues (surprise) and was only able to bring one "wanted" child to term.
Trust me there are many who have.
Theresa Bruno
If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, why aren’t you Pro Life?
Because I am pro choice especially during very early stage.
I mean no disrespect, but I am curious. If, given a healthy pregnancy and normal 20-week fetal assessment, what reason is, to you, justifiable for abortion at this point?
I do not support an abortion in that situation.
The term Pro Choice implies that you support "the right" to abortion up to birth. And usually paid by the State. And if you are a fanatic like Obama, even after birth. He voted against Illinois' Born Alive Infant Protection Act 4 times.
100% incorrect re: your claims of infanticide.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/us/politics/20checkpoint.html
Not infanticide. Try again.
Besides, Theresa did say her position is pro-choice with limitations. Not "just" pro-choice.
Pro-life with grace period = Pro-choice with limitations. And both allow the exceptions for life of the mother, rape, and incest.
Those exceptions are routinely used to justify abortions up to birth. All you need is a "doctor" to sign off on it. And frequently the "doctor" is the abortionist.
No it does not. That's your interpretation.
Pro-life with limitations is the same things as Pro-choice with limitations, really. It just sounds terrible to say it the first way. But it's true of everyone who is pro-life.
I'm pro-life. But I accept that 1) there must be compromise, 2) there must be limitations, 3) the life of the mother takes precedence, 4) if the baby is viable and the mother's life is at risk abortion shouldn't be the first option.
A lot of pro-lifers would deny me the label of being pro-life.
I guess it depends on what your preferred compromises and limitations are.
OnionPeace
Your name suits you. Only fanatics say the life of the unborn child should have precedence over the life of the mother. That does not make you Pro life.
Unfortunately I don't think everyone who is Pro Life thinks like you or I. I can appreciate it sounds better to be Pro Life and still support abortion with limitations. However there are some very staunch far right conservatives who want all abortion outlawed.
They are few and far between and have no sway.
Lol. Complete ban Conservatives are "few and far between" and have "no sway."
I do not support abortion for "psychological" reasons.
Claudia, people ARE educated about birth control. You can search high and low and you will not find a sexually active person who doesn't know that birth control exists and how to get/use it. They simply choose not to use it - in part because they're rolling the dice and think there will be no consequences, and in part because abortion is available as an "out."
Legal, easy abortion will achieve nothing else but high rates of abortion as birth control. That is a fact like gravity is a fact. We have fifty years of data to prove it. So "pro-choice within reason" unfortunately is de facto pro-abortion.
Yes!
Well I think you're onto something there. I think it's a major problem that neither side absolutely refuse to talk about birth control. The pro-choice left doesn't want to talk about it because they would have to admit it is an option to stop unwanted pregnancies to begin with. The anti-abortion right doesn't want to talk about it...why? I can't think of any good reason other than that they have some moral hangups about sex, and in truth they don't even want women to use contraceptives.
While you're right that people are educated about it, clearly we need more than facts being available. We need a full-on social campaign like campaign against drunk driving, or the campaign against cigarette smoking. Both of which had been successful. But instead, both sides rush to the farthest point of extremes instead of coming together on this where they can compromise and actually make abortions obsolete except in cases of necessary exceptions. Or don't compromise, but wage a one-side campaign drive to advocating contraceptions. That neither side would do this should tell you that solving abortions is not their real priority.
Most anti-abortion people are not against contraception as a way to reduce the need for abortion. Catholics may be against it but they do not work to outlaw it - only to ensure that they not be forced to use it or fund it.
I would argue that the pro-abortion left is not interested in making abortions obsolete at all. Quite the opposite - there are campaigns to get women to state that they had an abortion and are proud of having done so. They receive enormous amounts of money in the form of political donations (like from Planned Parenthood) to keep abortion going. The abortion industry goes beyond abortion itself to the selling of baby parts (though they claim it is cost recovery).
I think that the perception that the center is somehow better than either extreme is often misguided - maybe always misguided. Is there a centrist position on slavery? Were abolitionists too extreme? (Leaving political violence out of it for the purposes of argument.)
The only way to make abortions obsolete is to outlaw abortion. Of course there will always be back alley abortions, but no one will get serious about contraception on a massive scale until abortion is removed as an option.
Outlawing abortion won't make abortions obsolete. Abortion was illegal until recent times. All that did was drive abortions underground and women died from black alley abortions. Maybe you're too young to remember the coat hangers. Or maybe your approach is out of sight, out of mind.
You can make abortions obsolete by starting a campaign for men to stop having sex unless it's a woman they are certain they want to have a child with, and they have the woman's agreement that they want to start a family and she would carry to terms if she get pregnant. The whole problem is within men's ability to solve right now. Women can't force men to have sex. Instead of going after women when it's too late, go make it illegal for men to impregnate women who aren't their wives and willing to have a child with them.
You won't make it illegal to kill your own baby but you want to make it illegal for consenting adults to have sex? That's some serious pretzel logic.
No, outlawing abortion won't make it obsolete. Nothing will make it obsolete, sadly. But outlawing it will mean a lot fewer murdered babies. And will result in a lot less irresponsible sex.
Where did I say anything about making it illegal for adults to have sex? I never said that. I talked about a campaign to get men to stop, as in voluntarily. Your immediate jump to the law indicates that you have some catastrophic assumptions when it comes to people who argue on the other side.
Personally I would like to get all this out of the law arena, and everyone who really cares about this would focus on persuasions and changing hearts and minds instead, with an all out campaign to get everyone to practice responsible sex. I don’t share your view on abortions but nothing would make me happier than to see PP completely dismantled right now.
Outlawing abortions won’t mean fewer abortions. It would just mean that women with means to travel can get it in another state or another country if need be. Traveling doesn’t even cost that much nowadays. That’s why you are not seeing the pushback as I’m the past. And the law will subject only the poorest women to seeking illegal back alley abortions like the old days.
From your comment:
"Instead of going after women when it's too late, go make it illegal for men to impregnate women who aren't their wives and willing to have a child with them."
That's what I am referring to.
Of course outlawing abortions will lead to fewer abortions. That's why the abortion industry is fighting these laws. They pretend to care about women, but what they really care about is the bottom line.
I'm glad that at least we agree about PP being dismantled and about promoting responsible sex. My point is that humans being humans, many will never behave responsibly unless/until there are serious consequences for irresponsible behavior (such as DWI for driving drunk). Of course it won't eliminate all irresponsible behavior but it will help. Simply promoting responsible sex and birth control (which has been done for decades including in the schools) is not enough. Obviously.
In addition, killing babies in the womb is murder and should be illegal. Regardless of what impact it will have on sexual behavior.