Fascinating article. Deeply insightful. With so much to comment on, the gem that grabbed me was, "the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in the 1970s and 1980s in the name of individual rights and dignity" We don't hear nearly enough about the root cause of modern vagrancy: utopian ideals. I'm in Atlanta with my daughter and not …
Fascinating article. Deeply insightful. With so much to comment on, the gem that grabbed me was, "the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in the 1970s and 1980s in the name of individual rights and dignity"
We don't hear nearly enough about the root cause of modern vagrancy: utopian ideals. I'm in Atlanta with my daughter and not seeing a lot of dignity. Although I do see a lot of individuals whose mental illness and/or life choices are making life unbearable for everyone around them.
Yet no one has the courage to propose the obvious solution: institutionalizing the mentally ill and the dangerously addicted for the benefit of both those suffering and for society at large.
I really like where your mind went reading this beautiful article.
Never underestimate the power of over-correction. Somehow, there is just never quite the right amount of baby to throw out with the bath water...
Traverse City, MI, has a former insane asylum, Traverse City State Hospital, that has now been turned into a beautiful, interesting mixed use facility, the Village TC. They offer tours of the buildings and grounds where one can learn about the former hospital and hospital system, and that not all parts of the asylum system were as bad as some of the horror stories dictate, and apparently, this particular hospital, and quite a few others like it, actually even cultivated a high degree of “success” and a reputation that counters the one we all now think of when we hear the word asylum or institution. They were apparently fairly forward thinking and humane with regards to their care ethos, and striving to keep those individual rights and dignities in tact - who knew that was even possible? But alas, gone with the political wind.
To your point, isn’t there some middle ground where we can get at solving some of the societal problems we’re now facing?
Perhaps we’ll even have a day when a healthy, critical-thinking political center will be able to rebuff the attacks from the extremes, and we’ll get to a point of finally cultivating that illusive American Dream... by taking stewardship of the country and setting an actual good example for the world - how’s that for a fucking Utopia?
Now it’s darn near impossible to get somebody hospitalized even when all the signs of serious mental illness are there. Time is an enemy when it comes to mental breakdowns.
I don't think the deinstitutionalization was necessarily "to lessen pain." I think the short-sighted architects of the plan were responding to real inadequacies (pardon the euphemism for barbarian conditions) and didn't think about the negative consequences of simply letting people go free. They didn't lessen pain, they simply shifted it around. So often the architects of policies are not living the lives that are affected by their policies, due to their wealth, so they imagine they are "helping the oppressed" when they let loose dangerous individuals - they don't think about the victims of those individuals (who are often other mentally ill people, sometimes not). If we look honestly, I think a lot of what on the surface look like attempts to eradicate or reduce suffering are actually attempts to "clean one's conscience." I.e., "I don't support keeping people in mental hospitals (cause I'm so pure)" and "I don't think any breed of dog should be banned (because I'm so righteous)" and secret, unspoken, not-even-thought reality is "I get to think these things because in MY neighborhood there aren't insane people walking around waving knives or pitbulls off-leash." As one old ex-crack addict ex-con likes to tell me, "When I was young, society cared enough about us addicts to lock us up and get us sober. These days they let the kids die in the streets and they call it compassion." We're only pretending to lessen pain. I'm all for lessening pain, but the examples given in the essay are for the most part problems of failing to eradicate pain by going about it foolishly (or not going about it at all, but only pretending to.)
Psychologist try to reshape the individual to live inside the current structure of society. Sociologist try to reshape the structure to allow for a wider variety of individuals to live in it. Both projects are problematic. But, if you have ever traveled to other western countries you understand that homelessness/mental illness/violent crime while ubiquitous is handled much worse in the USA. No doubt we can do better. I always think it is funny when conservatives blame the liberals for all that is wrong hoping we will forget that not that long ago women were kept in the homes for domestic labor, blacks had a 80% poverty rate and children were routinely maimed working in factories and the right for routine assembly were suspended for workers while they were beaten in the streets.
You are doing precisely what you say those who blame the left are doing, you are just giving all the credit to the left for freedoms extended to various groups. But as for the homeless situation it is a combination of closing down mental health institutions without alternatives provisions therefor. And that was largely a result of liberalism run amok.. Homeless is also hugely impacted by rampant addiction in this country. Some addicts are self-medicating mentally I'll persons and some mentally ill persons got that way via drug-induced psychosis. Then there is the impact of the current economic downturn but those people are usually homeless temporarily.
Show me in my post where I was giving "all the credit to the left?" Yes, I pointed out places where conservatives had damaging ideas or decided to avoid issues for ideological reasons.
I am simply pointing out that ideology, whether on the left or right, leads people to point the finger at their imaginary enemies, which you go on to do; ".......largely the result of liberalism run amok." I think you can find hundreds of examples of items you can blame on either conservatives or liberals and by deselecting one side or another create a false dichotomy. Maybe there is a middle ground with the mental illness situation, maybe there isn't, but deinstitutionalization was implemented to try to help the situation and doesn't seem to have. Maybe institutionalization was really about denying the issue and hiding it away and now we have to face the issue? All I know is that in western Europe, Australia, etc. you don't see large encampments of homeless individuals like you do in almost any major city in the US. So other countries have ideas that we might consider.
You used to not "see"homeless encampment here either. They existed but were deemed not conducive to good governance for lack of a better term. IOW they were bad for city business. That ended with striking down laws which criminalized public camping in defined areas. And that was very much a leftist/progressive ideal. And the rationale was what you parroted, would you rather they be hidden? To be honest I do not know. In Austin it is no longer hidden. I no longer go to Austin. And not simply because I want to pretend it does not exist but because of two things. First I do not know the solution. I have represented mentally ill and/or addicted homeless people and I am empathetic, as I am for virtually every one of my clients. But in my experience all of the efforts to help are largely to no avail because you cannot help people unwilling to help themselves. Second I fear for my safety. Also the push to release people from.mental institutions was indeed a push from leftists/progressives. A VERY short-sighted push IMO. I hit Houston to attend school at the same time the institution doors were opened. They put severely ill.people on buses with a few dollars and that was it. They congregated around the Greyhound bus station downtown en masses. The Houston natives were stunned. I am sure it was a scene played out across the nation. Oddly enough though the idea of institutionalizing the mentally ill started out as a compassionate, progressive (not as in the political progressive idealogy) thing to do in the late 1800s. The institutions were cutting edge at that time. People were often commited at the behest of families thst could not care for them but loved them.nevertheless. But like a lot of things there was not proper oversight and probably insufficient funding. So the facilities deteriorated. But the answer, IMO, was not to shut them down, but rather to modernize them. Additionally oddly (how about that phraseology?) we are now seeing hard-core progressive ideologues that are overwhelmed by the homeless in their cities calling once again for involuntary commitment and rehabilitation. I am far from a progressive ideologue and I agree so yes I guess there is middle ground. As for where you gave credit to the left I cannot readily access your comment but my impression was that you did so when you referenced liberating women from servitude at home ( which also is not without issues) and black and brown people from their oppressive conditions. Do you not credit liberal/progressive idealogy for doing so?
You are trying to create a left/right dichotomy that does not exist. I am simply saying that the dichotomy of my side is right/good and your side is wrong/evil has never been accurate or productive. The left has indeed overstepped just as the right did previously. Despite all this noise, the trajectory is more human rights, not less and is only accomplished in short bursts. Power corrupts as it tries to keep feeding itself. True believers are the problem..............as they lack the capacity to compromise/understand/change.
No Dave you did that. "I always think it is funny when conservatives blame the liberals for all that is wrong hoping WE [emphasis added] will forget it was not that long ago that [women were used for domestic labor, blacks were oppressed and children were exploited]. That is either a nonsensical statement or you believe liberals freed those oppressed categories and conservatives hope that the liberal largesse is forgotten. And it is ludicrous to imply that conservatism is the cause of the mental health crisis. Mental illness is the great equalizer. It costs across race, gender and socio-economic status. The psychologists and social workers you started your explanation with have failed. Miserably.
So you are stuck in the us against them narrative. We refers to all of us. And by definition and as a statement of fact it was progressives/liberals that provided the political capital to accomplish those things. Or are you trying to convince people that Civil Rights was something political conservatives pushed for, or child labor laws or the women's movement? FYI, back in the 1963 it was a liberal/Democrat, Patrick Moynihan, that issued a report detailing the effects of single parent families among blacks bringing the issue to the forefront. Something that has been being pursued by more conservative forces. This is an example of how ideas don't have to be generated by your tribe to be good, which is the point I was trying to make.
This is my last comment on this matter as it is not productive at this point.
Fascinating article. Deeply insightful. With so much to comment on, the gem that grabbed me was, "the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill in the 1970s and 1980s in the name of individual rights and dignity"
We don't hear nearly enough about the root cause of modern vagrancy: utopian ideals. I'm in Atlanta with my daughter and not seeing a lot of dignity. Although I do see a lot of individuals whose mental illness and/or life choices are making life unbearable for everyone around them.
Yet no one has the courage to propose the obvious solution: institutionalizing the mentally ill and the dangerously addicted for the benefit of both those suffering and for society at large.
I really like where your mind went reading this beautiful article.
Never underestimate the power of over-correction. Somehow, there is just never quite the right amount of baby to throw out with the bath water...
Traverse City, MI, has a former insane asylum, Traverse City State Hospital, that has now been turned into a beautiful, interesting mixed use facility, the Village TC. They offer tours of the buildings and grounds where one can learn about the former hospital and hospital system, and that not all parts of the asylum system were as bad as some of the horror stories dictate, and apparently, this particular hospital, and quite a few others like it, actually even cultivated a high degree of “success” and a reputation that counters the one we all now think of when we hear the word asylum or institution. They were apparently fairly forward thinking and humane with regards to their care ethos, and striving to keep those individual rights and dignities in tact - who knew that was even possible? But alas, gone with the political wind.
To your point, isn’t there some middle ground where we can get at solving some of the societal problems we’re now facing?
Perhaps we’ll even have a day when a healthy, critical-thinking political center will be able to rebuff the attacks from the extremes, and we’ll get to a point of finally cultivating that illusive American Dream... by taking stewardship of the country and setting an actual good example for the world - how’s that for a fucking Utopia?
Now it’s darn near impossible to get somebody hospitalized even when all the signs of serious mental illness are there. Time is an enemy when it comes to mental breakdowns.
I don't think the deinstitutionalization was necessarily "to lessen pain." I think the short-sighted architects of the plan were responding to real inadequacies (pardon the euphemism for barbarian conditions) and didn't think about the negative consequences of simply letting people go free. They didn't lessen pain, they simply shifted it around. So often the architects of policies are not living the lives that are affected by their policies, due to their wealth, so they imagine they are "helping the oppressed" when they let loose dangerous individuals - they don't think about the victims of those individuals (who are often other mentally ill people, sometimes not). If we look honestly, I think a lot of what on the surface look like attempts to eradicate or reduce suffering are actually attempts to "clean one's conscience." I.e., "I don't support keeping people in mental hospitals (cause I'm so pure)" and "I don't think any breed of dog should be banned (because I'm so righteous)" and secret, unspoken, not-even-thought reality is "I get to think these things because in MY neighborhood there aren't insane people walking around waving knives or pitbulls off-leash." As one old ex-crack addict ex-con likes to tell me, "When I was young, society cared enough about us addicts to lock us up and get us sober. These days they let the kids die in the streets and they call it compassion." We're only pretending to lessen pain. I'm all for lessening pain, but the examples given in the essay are for the most part problems of failing to eradicate pain by going about it foolishly (or not going about it at all, but only pretending to.)
Psychologist try to reshape the individual to live inside the current structure of society. Sociologist try to reshape the structure to allow for a wider variety of individuals to live in it. Both projects are problematic. But, if you have ever traveled to other western countries you understand that homelessness/mental illness/violent crime while ubiquitous is handled much worse in the USA. No doubt we can do better. I always think it is funny when conservatives blame the liberals for all that is wrong hoping we will forget that not that long ago women were kept in the homes for domestic labor, blacks had a 80% poverty rate and children were routinely maimed working in factories and the right for routine assembly were suspended for workers while they were beaten in the streets.
You are doing precisely what you say those who blame the left are doing, you are just giving all the credit to the left for freedoms extended to various groups. But as for the homeless situation it is a combination of closing down mental health institutions without alternatives provisions therefor. And that was largely a result of liberalism run amok.. Homeless is also hugely impacted by rampant addiction in this country. Some addicts are self-medicating mentally I'll persons and some mentally ill persons got that way via drug-induced psychosis. Then there is the impact of the current economic downturn but those people are usually homeless temporarily.
Show me in my post where I was giving "all the credit to the left?" Yes, I pointed out places where conservatives had damaging ideas or decided to avoid issues for ideological reasons.
I am simply pointing out that ideology, whether on the left or right, leads people to point the finger at their imaginary enemies, which you go on to do; ".......largely the result of liberalism run amok." I think you can find hundreds of examples of items you can blame on either conservatives or liberals and by deselecting one side or another create a false dichotomy. Maybe there is a middle ground with the mental illness situation, maybe there isn't, but deinstitutionalization was implemented to try to help the situation and doesn't seem to have. Maybe institutionalization was really about denying the issue and hiding it away and now we have to face the issue? All I know is that in western Europe, Australia, etc. you don't see large encampments of homeless individuals like you do in almost any major city in the US. So other countries have ideas that we might consider.
You used to not "see"homeless encampment here either. They existed but were deemed not conducive to good governance for lack of a better term. IOW they were bad for city business. That ended with striking down laws which criminalized public camping in defined areas. And that was very much a leftist/progressive ideal. And the rationale was what you parroted, would you rather they be hidden? To be honest I do not know. In Austin it is no longer hidden. I no longer go to Austin. And not simply because I want to pretend it does not exist but because of two things. First I do not know the solution. I have represented mentally ill and/or addicted homeless people and I am empathetic, as I am for virtually every one of my clients. But in my experience all of the efforts to help are largely to no avail because you cannot help people unwilling to help themselves. Second I fear for my safety. Also the push to release people from.mental institutions was indeed a push from leftists/progressives. A VERY short-sighted push IMO. I hit Houston to attend school at the same time the institution doors were opened. They put severely ill.people on buses with a few dollars and that was it. They congregated around the Greyhound bus station downtown en masses. The Houston natives were stunned. I am sure it was a scene played out across the nation. Oddly enough though the idea of institutionalizing the mentally ill started out as a compassionate, progressive (not as in the political progressive idealogy) thing to do in the late 1800s. The institutions were cutting edge at that time. People were often commited at the behest of families thst could not care for them but loved them.nevertheless. But like a lot of things there was not proper oversight and probably insufficient funding. So the facilities deteriorated. But the answer, IMO, was not to shut them down, but rather to modernize them. Additionally oddly (how about that phraseology?) we are now seeing hard-core progressive ideologues that are overwhelmed by the homeless in their cities calling once again for involuntary commitment and rehabilitation. I am far from a progressive ideologue and I agree so yes I guess there is middle ground. As for where you gave credit to the left I cannot readily access your comment but my impression was that you did so when you referenced liberating women from servitude at home ( which also is not without issues) and black and brown people from their oppressive conditions. Do you not credit liberal/progressive idealogy for doing so?
You are trying to create a left/right dichotomy that does not exist. I am simply saying that the dichotomy of my side is right/good and your side is wrong/evil has never been accurate or productive. The left has indeed overstepped just as the right did previously. Despite all this noise, the trajectory is more human rights, not less and is only accomplished in short bursts. Power corrupts as it tries to keep feeding itself. True believers are the problem..............as they lack the capacity to compromise/understand/change.
No Dave you did that. "I always think it is funny when conservatives blame the liberals for all that is wrong hoping WE [emphasis added] will forget it was not that long ago that [women were used for domestic labor, blacks were oppressed and children were exploited]. That is either a nonsensical statement or you believe liberals freed those oppressed categories and conservatives hope that the liberal largesse is forgotten. And it is ludicrous to imply that conservatism is the cause of the mental health crisis. Mental illness is the great equalizer. It costs across race, gender and socio-economic status. The psychologists and social workers you started your explanation with have failed. Miserably.
So you are stuck in the us against them narrative. We refers to all of us. And by definition and as a statement of fact it was progressives/liberals that provided the political capital to accomplish those things. Or are you trying to convince people that Civil Rights was something political conservatives pushed for, or child labor laws or the women's movement? FYI, back in the 1963 it was a liberal/Democrat, Patrick Moynihan, that issued a report detailing the effects of single parent families among blacks bringing the issue to the forefront. Something that has been being pursued by more conservative forces. This is an example of how ideas don't have to be generated by your tribe to be good, which is the point I was trying to make.
This is my last comment on this matter as it is not productive at this point.
This is pointless. You have no self awareness. As is typical of the pious left. Nor can you stay on point.
You are talking about unintended consequences.
The problem is that we've now had five decades of unintended consequences.
The homelessness due to mental illness in Atlanta is out of control. And it pales in comparison to California. Utopia is a nightmare.
There’s a reason the word Utopia is used. It literally means “nowhere.”
Precisely