Article one-a Your best, M. Suzi. Very thought-provoking. I'm saddened, and wish I could say I was surprised.
AFAIK, (As Far As I Know), among other things, it's a consequence of being raised by the computer-brain of social media instead of day-to-day practice of being face-to-face human. Making mistakes. Having a heart and having i…
Article one-a Your best, M. Suzi. Very thought-provoking. I'm saddened, and wish I could say I was surprised.
AFAIK, (As Far As I Know), among other things, it's a consequence of being raised by the computer-brain of social media instead of day-to-day practice of being face-to-face human. Making mistakes. Having a heart and having it broken. And Snowplowing, indeed, has a lot to do with it.
Solutions? ... Simple, but not easy. IMO, You try something different from what "everyone" is doing.
So much wisdom in your post, jt. Yes, having a heart and having it broken. The common theme is that this generation is consumed with safety (no surprise - they willingly gave up their Constitutional rights in return for illusory and non-existent safety from the Chinese virus). But life is not safe. We love. We lose. And, ultimately, we die. But in between is a beautiful journey filled with so many wonderful people and experiences. Why live in fear of that? Especially if the alternative is a life of isolation, masturbation and self-delusion. Truly sad. Self-imposed chains.
Per usual, the parents have a lot to answer for. Snowplowism. The answer? Unsupervised play.
And I believe that same unsupervised play will help these younger people in the article, too.
You either believe that life is fun, or life is a terror. (At different times.) Mostly, despite things being better than they've ever *been,* in a lotta Ways, the media still makes money by saying it's a terror. That's one reason I don't pay much, or any, attention to that crap.
Social media the worst of the worst.
I think the problem is that a lotta the Gen Zers have never known there's so much *more* out there, just like You "said."
[Phillip] "'I’m assuming these things don’t give you as much as a normal life would,' he says, 'but it stops people from hitting rock bottom. The lowest possible quality of life you can have, with the internet, is still kind of tolerable. It’s not absolutely awful. You can sort of exist in that, and there’s nothing to give you a kick up the butt because it’s not the worst thing.'"
I feel sorry for Phillip and his kind. He doesn't even realize he *has* hit rock bottom. I reread the part about how he lives. He just doesn't realize it. All it takes is a change in POV, but that's a real hard charge to make. The hardest, actually.
“Per usual, the parents have a lot to answer for. Snowplowism. The answer? Unsupervised play.”
You have no idea how much grief I took for allowing my kids to roam the woods, play on the swingset etc. without Mom looking over their shoulders. We lived in a very rural area and I’m not sure I’d have allowed it in a city but I had no problem sending the kids out to play without me.
More than one idiot castigated me for being a “bad” mother because of it.
I m so jealous your kids had this opportunity of an unattended play. That’s how I grew up (outside of the US). but it felt impossible to replicate for the kids in the US. How old are they now? What are they up to now?
I know multiple moms who are absolutely incredible and yet they’ve had DSS called on them for things like going into the gas station to pay while their children were in the car or letting a child sleep when their car is parked right in front of the giant window that all the adults are sitting at they all know the child is perfectly safe even the sunroof is open the shade screens are on the child is locked in a car that can only be unlocked with the key fob and even the person at the ice cream counter knows the child is there sleeping, but the parent gets DSS called on them. Someone mentioned earlier that children don’t even walk three blocks to school anymore. It’s worse than that—you can’t let your child off as a fifth grader at the front of car line where they can sit under the awning on a bench in front of the school door—not even A few minutes before The doors open and you’re sitting right there. Most of us grew up with fifth graders being the kids wearing the orange vests and helping the other kids walk across the street to school. Now they can’t even sit on the bench in front of the school five minutes before the bell rings. They have to be in their parents’ car and supervised every minute. People talk about snow plow and helicopter parents, but from the parents point of view, they’re either not giving the kid enough freedom and teaching them responsibility or they’re not doing everything for them and they’re not responsible as parents. No matter what they haven’t done everything they’re supposed to do. The parents can’t win right now.
All true. My daughter and SIL took my grandkids to Asia to keep them away from the gender and race hustlers. From what I’m told, child rearing in Asia sounds a lot like how I raised my kids.
If mine were young now. …yeah, that would be ugly.
I gathered that can happen. World's pretty insane these days, and that's just *one-a* the symptoms of it.
I never had kids, but I *was* a kid. Parents always have it pretty rough. I don't think they win until they become Grandparents. (And then they die too soon.)
One hope I'd hold out about the above is that it may hafta be a case of "choosing Your battles." Or You can make the same mistakes everyone else is making, and hope it turns out for the best. But if You're judging by *results*...
I enjoyed Yours and M. Horton's "conversation." Yeah, I had it lucky. Just had to be home by dinner and come in after when called to.
The shame of it is that You can have CPS on Your back if You did like that today. And that's a mistake. IMO, even in the city. From what I know, the number of child-snatchings has gone DOWN since I was a kid. But the fear-mongering *industry* would have You think the *opposite.*
This is what LITTLE I know of it, not having raised kids.
Ideally You could keep an eye on Yours and the neighbors kids while leaving them, for the most part, unsupervised. I think it's the letting them try things and fail, that makes the kids resilient. And working out the changing hierarchies within the group on their own helps as well.
As a boy back then, we were real lucky. Good chunk-a the time was doing team sports. No need for supervision. Team? I dunno the term is used much these days.
Just seen the results when these things aren't done, is all.
Might I suggest a charming little book by a friend of mine: An American Boyhood. My friend is Chuck Kerber. He's about 10 years older than I am (I'm 75) and grew up in what was then semi-rural western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. His descriptions of growing up with somewhere between minimal and no supervision are wonderful.
Chuck grew up, went to medical school, joined the Navy and hung out with the Marines as a flight surgeon. And inspired a generation--myself included--to develop an entire surgical specialty from whole cloth: neurointerventional surgery. The only snowplows he saw moved the considerable amounts of white stuff that fell from the sky in mid-century Pittsburgh winters.
You'd like Chuck's book. His parents assumed he would be safe. From time to time, he'd take the trolley into Pittsburgh and get home well after everyone had gone to sleep. No one really worried about it. It wasn't a big deal then. Now things would be different. A lot different. And nowhere nearly as good.
I’d have had an issue with them traveling without my knowledge to a city but overall it sounds like my boys and your friend had similar experiences.
My kids thank us for how they were raised. I guess that plus the results (all are financially independent, law abiding adults) are the final word for Hubs and me.
Article one-a Your best, M. Suzi. Very thought-provoking. I'm saddened, and wish I could say I was surprised.
AFAIK, (As Far As I Know), among other things, it's a consequence of being raised by the computer-brain of social media instead of day-to-day practice of being face-to-face human. Making mistakes. Having a heart and having it broken. And Snowplowing, indeed, has a lot to do with it.
Solutions? ... Simple, but not easy. IMO, You try something different from what "everyone" is doing.
TY again, Ma'am.
So much wisdom in your post, jt. Yes, having a heart and having it broken. The common theme is that this generation is consumed with safety (no surprise - they willingly gave up their Constitutional rights in return for illusory and non-existent safety from the Chinese virus). But life is not safe. We love. We lose. And, ultimately, we die. But in between is a beautiful journey filled with so many wonderful people and experiences. Why live in fear of that? Especially if the alternative is a life of isolation, masturbation and self-delusion. Truly sad. Self-imposed chains.
Thank You. You're so right, Sir Bruce.
Per usual, the parents have a lot to answer for. Snowplowism. The answer? Unsupervised play.
And I believe that same unsupervised play will help these younger people in the article, too.
You either believe that life is fun, or life is a terror. (At different times.) Mostly, despite things being better than they've ever *been,* in a lotta Ways, the media still makes money by saying it's a terror. That's one reason I don't pay much, or any, attention to that crap.
Social media the worst of the worst.
I think the problem is that a lotta the Gen Zers have never known there's so much *more* out there, just like You "said."
[Phillip] "'I’m assuming these things don’t give you as much as a normal life would,' he says, 'but it stops people from hitting rock bottom. The lowest possible quality of life you can have, with the internet, is still kind of tolerable. It’s not absolutely awful. You can sort of exist in that, and there’s nothing to give you a kick up the butt because it’s not the worst thing.'"
I feel sorry for Phillip and his kind. He doesn't even realize he *has* hit rock bottom. I reread the part about how he lives. He just doesn't realize it. All it takes is a change in POV, but that's a real hard charge to make. The hardest, actually.
TYTY again. Great to "hear" from Ya.
“Per usual, the parents have a lot to answer for. Snowplowism. The answer? Unsupervised play.”
You have no idea how much grief I took for allowing my kids to roam the woods, play on the swingset etc. without Mom looking over their shoulders. We lived in a very rural area and I’m not sure I’d have allowed it in a city but I had no problem sending the kids out to play without me.
More than one idiot castigated me for being a “bad” mother because of it.
I m so jealous your kids had this opportunity of an unattended play. That’s how I grew up (outside of the US). but it felt impossible to replicate for the kids in the US. How old are they now? What are they up to now?
I know multiple moms who are absolutely incredible and yet they’ve had DSS called on them for things like going into the gas station to pay while their children were in the car or letting a child sleep when their car is parked right in front of the giant window that all the adults are sitting at they all know the child is perfectly safe even the sunroof is open the shade screens are on the child is locked in a car that can only be unlocked with the key fob and even the person at the ice cream counter knows the child is there sleeping, but the parent gets DSS called on them. Someone mentioned earlier that children don’t even walk three blocks to school anymore. It’s worse than that—you can’t let your child off as a fifth grader at the front of car line where they can sit under the awning on a bench in front of the school door—not even A few minutes before The doors open and you’re sitting right there. Most of us grew up with fifth graders being the kids wearing the orange vests and helping the other kids walk across the street to school. Now they can’t even sit on the bench in front of the school five minutes before the bell rings. They have to be in their parents’ car and supervised every minute. People talk about snow plow and helicopter parents, but from the parents point of view, they’re either not giving the kid enough freedom and teaching them responsibility or they’re not doing everything for them and they’re not responsible as parents. No matter what they haven’t done everything they’re supposed to do. The parents can’t win right now.
All true. My daughter and SIL took my grandkids to Asia to keep them away from the gender and race hustlers. From what I’m told, child rearing in Asia sounds a lot like how I raised my kids.
If mine were young now. …yeah, that would be ugly.
I gathered that can happen. World's pretty insane these days, and that's just *one-a* the symptoms of it.
I never had kids, but I *was* a kid. Parents always have it pretty rough. I don't think they win until they become Grandparents. (And then they die too soon.)
One hope I'd hold out about the above is that it may hafta be a case of "choosing Your battles." Or You can make the same mistakes everyone else is making, and hope it turns out for the best. But if You're judging by *results*...
I enjoyed Yours and M. Horton's "conversation." Yeah, I had it lucky. Just had to be home by dinner and come in after when called to.
The shame of it is that You can have CPS on Your back if You did like that today. And that's a mistake. IMO, even in the city. From what I know, the number of child-snatchings has gone DOWN since I was a kid. But the fear-mongering *industry* would have You think the *opposite.*
This is what LITTLE I know of it, not having raised kids.
Ideally You could keep an eye on Yours and the neighbors kids while leaving them, for the most part, unsupervised. I think it's the letting them try things and fail, that makes the kids resilient. And working out the changing hierarchies within the group on their own helps as well.
As a boy back then, we were real lucky. Good chunk-a the time was doing team sports. No need for supervision. Team? I dunno the term is used much these days.
Just seen the results when these things aren't done, is all.
Might I suggest a charming little book by a friend of mine: An American Boyhood. My friend is Chuck Kerber. He's about 10 years older than I am (I'm 75) and grew up in what was then semi-rural western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. His descriptions of growing up with somewhere between minimal and no supervision are wonderful.
Chuck grew up, went to medical school, joined the Navy and hung out with the Marines as a flight surgeon. And inspired a generation--myself included--to develop an entire surgical specialty from whole cloth: neurointerventional surgery. The only snowplows he saw moved the considerable amounts of white stuff that fell from the sky in mid-century Pittsburgh winters.
My boys in particular adored roaming the woods all day in the summer. The only rule was they had to be home before dark.
They fell out of trees a couple of times, came home with scrapes and bruises sometimes, but were happy as larks.
I’m glad I ignored the many people who declared me unfit for allowing them to go off and explore.
Edit to add: on the flip side I was emphatic about school. No excuses for bad grades and bad behavior.
You'd like Chuck's book. His parents assumed he would be safe. From time to time, he'd take the trolley into Pittsburgh and get home well after everyone had gone to sleep. No one really worried about it. It wasn't a big deal then. Now things would be different. A lot different. And nowhere nearly as good.
I’d have had an issue with them traveling without my knowledge to a city but overall it sounds like my boys and your friend had similar experiences.
My kids thank us for how they were raised. I guess that plus the results (all are financially independent, law abiding adults) are the final word for Hubs and me.
I understand. But remember: we're talking pre-WWII. It was a ~very~ different time.
Mine were from the 90s to early 2010s so yeah, very different times!