To your last sentence, the discussion is important now if you see that inflation and illegal immigration affects every single person while abortion most definitely (thankfully) does not. Even though you don't consider yourself 'pro abortion' you've made it a very important / top tier voting issue, or so it seems, and there really is no d…
To your last sentence, the discussion is important now if you see that inflation and illegal immigration affects every single person while abortion most definitely (thankfully) does not. Even though you don't consider yourself 'pro abortion' you've made it a very important / top tier voting issue, or so it seems, and there really is no differentiation between "it's your choice" and "for abortion". There is a lot of word displacement and replacement going on in our culture now.
The state in which I live has abortion law going back to the 1800s so laws were on the books in many states long before SCOTUS was involved in the '70s and in '22. Undoing abortion law altogether was impossible. What's happened with abortion (just like what's happening with trans now) is the billions of dollars that are made from it and pushed into it. And it could care less about it's consequences. Just look up Goznell. As a man (and I mean no offense), you'll just never know that feeling of having a baby grow in your body and the gift of that opportunity. And again, no offense, but I don't think you can understand the damage to the emotional and physical health of a woman who has an abortion and all too often it's not just one abortion. I worked with a woman who had three abortions (paid for by our boss) and then birthed a child. All of the pregnancies were with different men. The child she had was born with Down's Syndrome...likely genetic on the father's side but who really knows. She may not be the typical woman, but for reals, women are using abortion as contraception. Aren't we a more sophisticated society than that? Are we back to sacrificing our children at the altar? I know you don't support that that kind of abortion, but it's all part of the equation.
Lastly, babies can survive at 24 weeks. They feel pain at 20 weeks. You and I will always disagree on this issue. As Bari says, "Jews, who understand that being made in the image of God bestows inviolate sanctity on every human life...." How would God only make a human in his image after they are born because the mother chose life for him or her?
"To your last sentence, the discussion is important now if you see that inflation and illegal immigration affects every single person while abortion most definitely (thankfully) does not."
This? Absolutely. A culture-deep conversation about Inflation, the larger economy, and immigration are critical to have now, and for everyday citizens to insist on piercing the "nah, nah, everything's fine" bullshittery that passes for assurances from our legislators. All is not well, so we must either force change through the system or receive documented, believable evidence as to why "fine" is correct. We cannot continue to ignore these issues and continue as a society. To be a sovereign nation is to not have illegal immigration, period. And if we're one more crisis away from Great Depression III, we need to know that in time to stave it off.
What does hearten me, though, in all seriousness, is this conversation and others I've had on this forum. Normal Americans can still have deep conversations about difficult and mult-viewpoint issues without turning into Twitter-like shout machines. Your take on abortion manages to make me take pause on my own views, and while I might not change my mind, I'm open to more possibilities to do so than I would ever be from other forums.
No offense taken. Women are the only half of humanity who can experience the intensely personal side of the babymaking equation; men can't. My arguments can only be about legality and freedom because men cannot get pregnant.
Thank you in return for this lovely comment, md, I really do appreciate it, and you. As I watch the murder cults wreak their hell on Earth in Israel, I continue to be impressed by the respect and support we Jewish people receive from our non-Jewish friends around the world. You are a mensch, one of the highest compliments of Yiddish I can pay.
To your last sentence, the discussion is important now if you see that inflation and illegal immigration affects every single person while abortion most definitely (thankfully) does not. Even though you don't consider yourself 'pro abortion' you've made it a very important / top tier voting issue, or so it seems, and there really is no differentiation between "it's your choice" and "for abortion". There is a lot of word displacement and replacement going on in our culture now.
The state in which I live has abortion law going back to the 1800s so laws were on the books in many states long before SCOTUS was involved in the '70s and in '22. Undoing abortion law altogether was impossible. What's happened with abortion (just like what's happening with trans now) is the billions of dollars that are made from it and pushed into it. And it could care less about it's consequences. Just look up Goznell. As a man (and I mean no offense), you'll just never know that feeling of having a baby grow in your body and the gift of that opportunity. And again, no offense, but I don't think you can understand the damage to the emotional and physical health of a woman who has an abortion and all too often it's not just one abortion. I worked with a woman who had three abortions (paid for by our boss) and then birthed a child. All of the pregnancies were with different men. The child she had was born with Down's Syndrome...likely genetic on the father's side but who really knows. She may not be the typical woman, but for reals, women are using abortion as contraception. Aren't we a more sophisticated society than that? Are we back to sacrificing our children at the altar? I know you don't support that that kind of abortion, but it's all part of the equation.
Lastly, babies can survive at 24 weeks. They feel pain at 20 weeks. You and I will always disagree on this issue. As Bari says, "Jews, who understand that being made in the image of God bestows inviolate sanctity on every human life...." How would God only make a human in his image after they are born because the mother chose life for him or her?
"To your last sentence, the discussion is important now if you see that inflation and illegal immigration affects every single person while abortion most definitely (thankfully) does not."
This? Absolutely. A culture-deep conversation about Inflation, the larger economy, and immigration are critical to have now, and for everyday citizens to insist on piercing the "nah, nah, everything's fine" bullshittery that passes for assurances from our legislators. All is not well, so we must either force change through the system or receive documented, believable evidence as to why "fine" is correct. We cannot continue to ignore these issues and continue as a society. To be a sovereign nation is to not have illegal immigration, period. And if we're one more crisis away from Great Depression III, we need to know that in time to stave it off.
What does hearten me, though, in all seriousness, is this conversation and others I've had on this forum. Normal Americans can still have deep conversations about difficult and mult-viewpoint issues without turning into Twitter-like shout machines. Your take on abortion manages to make me take pause on my own views, and while I might not change my mind, I'm open to more possibilities to do so than I would ever be from other forums.
No offense taken. Women are the only half of humanity who can experience the intensely personal side of the babymaking equation; men can't. My arguments can only be about legality and freedom because men cannot get pregnant.
Thanks so much Shane for a cogent, respectful dialogue.
And continued prayers for all of my Jewish friends and those I will never know. God will not abandon His chosen people.
Thank you in return for this lovely comment, md, I really do appreciate it, and you. As I watch the murder cults wreak their hell on Earth in Israel, I continue to be impressed by the respect and support we Jewish people receive from our non-Jewish friends around the world. You are a mensch, one of the highest compliments of Yiddish I can pay.
Oh my gosh....I'm honored! Thanks Shane! Made my day/month/year.
You're entirely welcome, md, the honor is mine.