You lost me when you described him as kind and gentle. Perhaps he seems that way to a colleague he esteems. He is a well known narcissist and bully. Anyone who ever worked on the 7th floor in building 31 knows this. I watched him bring my boss at the Office of Policy analysis to tears. He’s many things, but kind and gentle ain’t it.
You lost me when you described him as kind and gentle. Perhaps he seems that way to a colleague he esteems. He is a well known narcissist and bully. Anyone who ever worked on the 7th floor in building 31 knows this. I watched him bring my boss at the Office of Policy analysis to tears. He’s many things, but kind and gentle ain’t it.
"Any physician who has met Dr. Fauci will agree that he is one of the kindest, most charming human beings you will ever meet."
I thought this comment was incredibly naive. Narcissists are typically charming and can present themselves as "kind" to those they want to impress. The ugliness comes out when they are opposed or behind the scenes.
My best friend's ex-husband is a textbook narcissist. His gentle demeanor fooled me for many years into thinking his sometimes irrational behavior was merely quirky. Once the mask slipped, his true viciousness was plain to see.
I worked for another textbook narcissist at a "reform school" for rich kids. It was the only job I've ever been fired from: I asked too many questions about things that did not seem right. A few years later, the school was shut down, and my former boss currently sits in prison for abusing students--particularly his sexual behavior toward girls who were imprisoned there. I know many people who, to this day, believe he was a great guy and couldn't possibly have done what he was convicted of.
Narcissists are all charm--frightening so--until they know you are no longer fooled.
For my best friend, it all came crashing down when she found out he was cheating on her. He made a huge, huge show to everyone who would listen of "repenting," but I recall one conversation with him where he let it slip that it was control over his daughters that was really motivating him to try to save their marriage.
Over the next five years, everything *appeared* to be fine...except that my best friend was horribly unhappy and slipping toward utter despair. It was only then that she revealed to me what she had been hiding, in her own good-faith effort to give him a chance to fix things:
All those weekly "dates" they were supposedly going on to bolster their relationship, the kids were always brought along, even though babysitting was not an issue. He constantly used their daughters as an emotional buffer between them.
Worse still was that he used her trauma over his affair as a bludgeon to attack her. Anything she struggled with was "proof" that she hadn't forgiven him (as was her moral obligation), which made her a horrible and evil person.
And, as always, his wishes came first and hers were nowhere. He had always made a good show of treating her like a princess, but in reality, there was only ever money for the things HE wanted to buy. His musical ambitions were paramount, but her literature-writing talent (which was exceptional) meant nothing. Like many cheaters, he had accused her of cheating because HE was.
When she reached a point where she was trying to decide if their marriage was salvageable for her, she came to hang out with me for a month. He harassed her with phone calls all day if she was not online where he could harangue her. He made a huge, huge show to anyone who would listen of being "traumatized" by the possibility that she would leave him permanently. I warned him that NOT giving her space to think was the surest way to lose her, but no, he had to control her.
When she finally made the decision that their marriage was over, he went instantly from loving her so much he couldn't bear to leave her to considering her the most evil woman who had ever lived. He literally went around to all the people she knew--even people who were not friends with him--and tried to convince them that they shouldn't associate with her anymore. He even tried the "she's no longer worthy of your friendship" schtick on ME, who had been her best friend for years before he ever appeared on the scene.
His determination to control the kids came out immediately. He threatened to tell all manner of lies to the family court judge if she tried to gain custody. And with his smooth and winning manner, he would have been utterly convincing. Whereas my best friend--who had already been squashed down by an abusive mother--found it very difficult to speak up and convincingly defend herself.
As we found out years later, after the girls grew up, he was constantly telling them that their mother had left because she didn't love them. He told them (and anyone who would listen) that she was a whore who slept with dozens of men. The girls, of course, knew that none of this was true, because they could see for themselves when they stayed with her that it was not. In fact, they did not know the truth about the divorce until they were young adults. Their father was finally about to marry the woman whom he'd cheated with, and my best friend told him that either he could tell them the truth and put his own spin on it, or she would. He (of course) refused. It was during THAT conversation that the girls revealed the emotional abuse he'd inflicted on them.
I don't know if that helps with your situation, but that's my experience.
Thanks Celia. That does help a lot. I'm dealing with similar things, but on a much smaller scale, from my sister. The hardest thing is to believe yourself, because the narcissist is always right and very good at convincing other people. We're not in contact anymore (thanks god) and even though I have a few family members who also know the truth, I still question myself sometimes. Was it me? Did I make it all up?
The gaslighting from narcissists is terrible. And they will actively recruit people in their target's circle to support their lies (in the parlance, these are known as "flying monkeys").
When it comes to narcissists, they will literally tell you not to believe your lying eyes. When you point out actions they have taken or things that they have said, their modus is DenyDenyDeny.
Often the only way they are caught is because they are so convinced by their own lies that they get careless. My "reform school" employer *knew* he was under investigation, but he still took a group of girls to Victoria's Secret. If a caseworker had not spotted him there, I think the trial might have gone very differently. But he was so certain that he would get away with it, he didn't alter his behavior in the slightest.
Ok, Celia M. …..I always scan the sites that I subscribe to. There are some that I stop immediately and read (my favorites have developed for me over time). Then I go back and read everybody. But, my God, have you written a book or essays of your life? I mean a lot of what you say, I’m sure could help many, many people.
If I’m being too personal, I apologize. Thank you.
I write a lot on Quora. Maybe sometime I should gather my most interesting answers into a collection. Still trying to figure out the fiddly bits of self-publishing my cookbook to give to my kids for Christmas.
Our whole system now is set up to attract and reward narcissists. We offer more and more power to anyone who is charming enough to win a popular vote. We practically invite narcissistic psychopaths to rule over us. Then some will claim that their grand plans were “hijacked”. Guaranteed to happen every time the plan is for benevolent experts to have control.
Sadly true. Part of the point of having Senators appointed by state legislatures was to put a cushion between the "popular vote" and what was *meant* to be an office filled by the wisest men each state could produce. Now there is no political office in our country that does not depend on wooing the fickle mob. Which makes narcissism an easy substitute for genuine leadership.
But the desire to be ruled over by "experts" has been part of the Progressive mentality since the first iteration of Progressivism. Woodrow Wilson--who inspired the fascists of Europe--was a college professor before he was a politician. The eugenics favored by those early Progressives was all about the desire to rid our society of low-IQ "deplorables" so it could rise to new heights under the leadership of intellectuals.
So it's no accident that modern Progressives worship experts--they just have to be experts who believe the "correct" things.
or they become cornered, then become the rat they are. There's no shortage of interviews that show that side of him, and Rand Paul was very good at exposing it during House hearings.
You lost me when you described him as kind and gentle. Perhaps he seems that way to a colleague he esteems. He is a well known narcissist and bully. Anyone who ever worked on the 7th floor in building 31 knows this. I watched him bring my boss at the Office of Policy analysis to tears. He’s many things, but kind and gentle ain’t it.
"Any physician who has met Dr. Fauci will agree that he is one of the kindest, most charming human beings you will ever meet."
I thought this comment was incredibly naive. Narcissists are typically charming and can present themselves as "kind" to those they want to impress. The ugliness comes out when they are opposed or behind the scenes.
Those who have never experienced the dark side of a narcissist may never stop believing that they're just the nicest person.
Well said.
My best friend's ex-husband is a textbook narcissist. His gentle demeanor fooled me for many years into thinking his sometimes irrational behavior was merely quirky. Once the mask slipped, his true viciousness was plain to see.
I worked for another textbook narcissist at a "reform school" for rich kids. It was the only job I've ever been fired from: I asked too many questions about things that did not seem right. A few years later, the school was shut down, and my former boss currently sits in prison for abusing students--particularly his sexual behavior toward girls who were imprisoned there. I know many people who, to this day, believe he was a great guy and couldn't possibly have done what he was convicted of.
Narcissists are all charm--frightening so--until they know you are no longer fooled.
I’m curious about your experience with your friend’s husband. What was it like when the mask slipped? And how did he act when he stopped trying?
I’m dealing with someone who is very good at hiding their narcissism, I think ….
If you don’t want to respond here I’ll send my email address
For my best friend, it all came crashing down when she found out he was cheating on her. He made a huge, huge show to everyone who would listen of "repenting," but I recall one conversation with him where he let it slip that it was control over his daughters that was really motivating him to try to save their marriage.
Over the next five years, everything *appeared* to be fine...except that my best friend was horribly unhappy and slipping toward utter despair. It was only then that she revealed to me what she had been hiding, in her own good-faith effort to give him a chance to fix things:
All those weekly "dates" they were supposedly going on to bolster their relationship, the kids were always brought along, even though babysitting was not an issue. He constantly used their daughters as an emotional buffer between them.
Worse still was that he used her trauma over his affair as a bludgeon to attack her. Anything she struggled with was "proof" that she hadn't forgiven him (as was her moral obligation), which made her a horrible and evil person.
And, as always, his wishes came first and hers were nowhere. He had always made a good show of treating her like a princess, but in reality, there was only ever money for the things HE wanted to buy. His musical ambitions were paramount, but her literature-writing talent (which was exceptional) meant nothing. Like many cheaters, he had accused her of cheating because HE was.
When she reached a point where she was trying to decide if their marriage was salvageable for her, she came to hang out with me for a month. He harassed her with phone calls all day if she was not online where he could harangue her. He made a huge, huge show to anyone who would listen of being "traumatized" by the possibility that she would leave him permanently. I warned him that NOT giving her space to think was the surest way to lose her, but no, he had to control her.
When she finally made the decision that their marriage was over, he went instantly from loving her so much he couldn't bear to leave her to considering her the most evil woman who had ever lived. He literally went around to all the people she knew--even people who were not friends with him--and tried to convince them that they shouldn't associate with her anymore. He even tried the "she's no longer worthy of your friendship" schtick on ME, who had been her best friend for years before he ever appeared on the scene.
His determination to control the kids came out immediately. He threatened to tell all manner of lies to the family court judge if she tried to gain custody. And with his smooth and winning manner, he would have been utterly convincing. Whereas my best friend--who had already been squashed down by an abusive mother--found it very difficult to speak up and convincingly defend herself.
As we found out years later, after the girls grew up, he was constantly telling them that their mother had left because she didn't love them. He told them (and anyone who would listen) that she was a whore who slept with dozens of men. The girls, of course, knew that none of this was true, because they could see for themselves when they stayed with her that it was not. In fact, they did not know the truth about the divorce until they were young adults. Their father was finally about to marry the woman whom he'd cheated with, and my best friend told him that either he could tell them the truth and put his own spin on it, or she would. He (of course) refused. It was during THAT conversation that the girls revealed the emotional abuse he'd inflicted on them.
I don't know if that helps with your situation, but that's my experience.
Another interesting post Celia. Please keep it up
Thanks Celia. That does help a lot. I'm dealing with similar things, but on a much smaller scale, from my sister. The hardest thing is to believe yourself, because the narcissist is always right and very good at convincing other people. We're not in contact anymore (thanks god) and even though I have a few family members who also know the truth, I still question myself sometimes. Was it me? Did I make it all up?
The gaslighting from narcissists is terrible. And they will actively recruit people in their target's circle to support their lies (in the parlance, these are known as "flying monkeys").
When it comes to narcissists, they will literally tell you not to believe your lying eyes. When you point out actions they have taken or things that they have said, their modus is DenyDenyDeny.
Often the only way they are caught is because they are so convinced by their own lies that they get careless. My "reform school" employer *knew* he was under investigation, but he still took a group of girls to Victoria's Secret. If a caseworker had not spotted him there, I think the trial might have gone very differently. But he was so certain that he would get away with it, he didn't alter his behavior in the slightest.
"The hardest thing is to believe yourself, because the narcissist is always right and very good at convincing other people."
That is so true.
Ok, Celia M. …..I always scan the sites that I subscribe to. There are some that I stop immediately and read (my favorites have developed for me over time). Then I go back and read everybody. But, my God, have you written a book or essays of your life? I mean a lot of what you say, I’m sure could help many, many people.
If I’m being too personal, I apologize. Thank you.
I write a lot on Quora. Maybe sometime I should gather my most interesting answers into a collection. Still trying to figure out the fiddly bits of self-publishing my cookbook to give to my kids for Christmas.
Our whole system now is set up to attract and reward narcissists. We offer more and more power to anyone who is charming enough to win a popular vote. We practically invite narcissistic psychopaths to rule over us. Then some will claim that their grand plans were “hijacked”. Guaranteed to happen every time the plan is for benevolent experts to have control.
Sadly true. Part of the point of having Senators appointed by state legislatures was to put a cushion between the "popular vote" and what was *meant* to be an office filled by the wisest men each state could produce. Now there is no political office in our country that does not depend on wooing the fickle mob. Which makes narcissism an easy substitute for genuine leadership.
But the desire to be ruled over by "experts" has been part of the Progressive mentality since the first iteration of Progressivism. Woodrow Wilson--who inspired the fascists of Europe--was a college professor before he was a politician. The eugenics favored by those early Progressives was all about the desire to rid our society of low-IQ "deplorables" so it could rise to new heights under the leadership of intellectuals.
So it's no accident that modern Progressives worship experts--they just have to be experts who believe the "correct" things.
Yet, again, another wow. If I were ever on trial for anything, I’d want you on the jury.
or they become cornered, then become the rat they are. There's no shortage of interviews that show that side of him, and Rand Paul was very good at exposing it during House hearings.
I can hardly wait for Rand Paul to have-at him.