"Anyway, abortion. He’s for it. Or, at least, the right to have one. He thinks people make mistakes, things happen—he should know—and anyway, who is Jesse Geffs to tell a woman what to do with her body?" - My ongoing question here is why all these people get to tell the female fetus what to do with her body? What bodily autonomy does "t…
"Anyway, abortion. He’s for it. Or, at least, the right to have one. He thinks people make mistakes, things happen—he should know—and anyway, who is Jesse Geffs to tell a woman what to do with her body?" - My ongoing question here is why all these people get to tell the female fetus what to do with her body? What bodily autonomy does "that woman" have? At what point during gestation does the fetus become a woman with all the rights that the angry, already born ones have?
That is the key question. When does life begin? Obama famously said “it’s above my pay grade”. He was trying to be funny but he is correct. We do not know. Considering this and considering the EVIL it is to take innocent life we should opt to be cautious in this. None of us wants blood on our hands.
My niece just went through in-vitro, something my husband and I did 24 years ago. Now, unlike 24 years ago, the doctor will tell the mother/father the gender of the embryos before they are even implanted! Live begins at knowing the gender as far as I'm concerned!
My Boy Heisenberg opened up minds about a lot more than electron position and momentum; as you drill down on ANYTHING, it gets fuzzy. The deeper you go, the fuzzier it gets. Before you ask when life begins, you need to decide "What is life?" When we are able to dedifferentiate a skin cell to the zygote stage, will rubbing your hands be considered the taking of "life," as each cell drops to the floor?
That's not just a silly question. It suggests others, and they suggest even others. But at some point it gets absurd, and one realizes that solving problems ultimately means that you have to get reasonable people together and just let them work out solutions. To my eye, the abortion question is the perfect problem and the perfect opportunity to to do that - and to reverse the extremist lunacy that has surrounded the question for nearly fifty years.
No, because your skin cells aren’t dividing. And because they have “committed” to being skin cells, even if they were dividing, they could not generate a human. You need uncommitted pluripotential cells.
That's why I included the term "dedifferentiated." Which we can do to some extent today. Tomorrow? They will certainly have the technology. I haven't followed the science lately; I suspect the Chinese are experimenting with it right now, since they don't do the human-experimentation due diligence that we/everyone else does. But the whole idea was a hypothetical anyway....
Madjack, I don't think that they key question in the U.S. is "when does life begin." The question is at what point and under what circumstances does the state have a duty of care toward the unborn?
We most certainly do know when human life begins. It begins at conception. The question is when is it viable, and that benchmark moves ever closer to conception with medical advancements.
I don’t know why that’s so hard to answer. Cells that contain human DNA from a mother and a father, cells that are dividing and have all the instructions to make an entire human being, are alive.
And that we as a society put little to no value on human life. Unless it is a life that is deemed worthy. I hope people realize (especially ‘educated’ white women) where this line of thinking is going to get us.
I'm an "educated white woman" and I am frequently disgusted by my demographic. I feel in general that they have been so pampered that they don't see danger coming down the track from all of this.
I am one too which is why I felt it was OK to use the term, and I am disgusted as well. We finally get to some level of equality and ‘power’ and this is what we do with it. I guess we are human just like everyone else :).
EXACTLY THIS. What makes us human (with those rights outlined in our Constitution) is THE question. Especially medical advances and the advent of sentient AI, this question is the question our global society needs to answer. And the fact that no one is even talking about it proves yet again that our politicians are just using it to win elections.
Women also demand equal rights with men. It was about 45 years ago that I first pointed out that a man’s ability to control his reproduction ends at intercourse. And yes, although the repercussions of an unwanted pregnancy weigh more heavily upon the expectant mother, nature addresses that imbalance.
That's certainly what they demand of men if the man doesn't want to be on the hook for child support. He needs to keep his pants zipped, because he's on the hook from the moment he ejaculates.
If birth control fails, the woman can go get an abortion, but the man is out of luck if the woman decides to go ahead and have the baby. Hand over your wallet, dude!
And that doesn't even begin to consider the women who lie about being on birth control in order to "trap" a man into becoming the father of her child.
I told my boys repeatedly, “women lie just as often as men and their lies can have vicious consequences for you and any child you may unintentionally create.”
And the absurdity of “why should I tell a woman what’re do with her body?”
Uhhh that happen ALL THE TIME. Women can’t legally smoke heroin, drive drunk, etc. it’s a ridiculous claim.
Really? Go to the Matt Gaetz, accused of sexually trafficking minors, level? The issue of abortion is morally and legally so important that it should never go to "is she cute?" remark. Do women who have aged out of cute (if they ever were in that group) and out of reproduction still have the ability to make political statements about abortion?
I'm sorry, but I think NC was simply injecting a little humor into the discussion, and even though I smiled when I first read it, I assumed someone was going to torch her on it.
I don't believe that there is any topic that is so 'morally and legally important' that it can't be poked at. In fact, the more important a topic is, the more it would benefit by lightened the conversation a bit. I worked in hospitals for 30 years, and I tell you, most would be appalled by the dark humor amongst clinicians during high stress situations.
"Anyway, abortion. He’s for it. Or, at least, the right to have one. He thinks people make mistakes, things happen—he should know—and anyway, who is Jesse Geffs to tell a woman what to do with her body?" - My ongoing question here is why all these people get to tell the female fetus what to do with her body? What bodily autonomy does "that woman" have? At what point during gestation does the fetus become a woman with all the rights that the angry, already born ones have?
That is the key question. When does life begin? Obama famously said “it’s above my pay grade”. He was trying to be funny but he is correct. We do not know. Considering this and considering the EVIL it is to take innocent life we should opt to be cautious in this. None of us wants blood on our hands.
My niece just went through in-vitro, something my husband and I did 24 years ago. Now, unlike 24 years ago, the doctor will tell the mother/father the gender of the embryos before they are even implanted! Live begins at knowing the gender as far as I'm concerned!
My Boy Heisenberg opened up minds about a lot more than electron position and momentum; as you drill down on ANYTHING, it gets fuzzy. The deeper you go, the fuzzier it gets. Before you ask when life begins, you need to decide "What is life?" When we are able to dedifferentiate a skin cell to the zygote stage, will rubbing your hands be considered the taking of "life," as each cell drops to the floor?
That's not just a silly question. It suggests others, and they suggest even others. But at some point it gets absurd, and one realizes that solving problems ultimately means that you have to get reasonable people together and just let them work out solutions. To my eye, the abortion question is the perfect problem and the perfect opportunity to to do that - and to reverse the extremist lunacy that has surrounded the question for nearly fifty years.
No, because your skin cells aren’t dividing. And because they have “committed” to being skin cells, even if they were dividing, they could not generate a human. You need uncommitted pluripotential cells.
That's why I included the term "dedifferentiated." Which we can do to some extent today. Tomorrow? They will certainly have the technology. I haven't followed the science lately; I suspect the Chinese are experimenting with it right now, since they don't do the human-experimentation due diligence that we/everyone else does. But the whole idea was a hypothetical anyway....
Madjack, I don't think that they key question in the U.S. is "when does life begin." The question is at what point and under what circumstances does the state have a duty of care toward the unborn?
We most certainly do know when human life begins. It begins at conception. The question is when is it viable, and that benchmark moves ever closer to conception with medical advancements.
I don’t know why that’s so hard to answer. Cells that contain human DNA from a mother and a father, cells that are dividing and have all the instructions to make an entire human being, are alive.
Life begins at the beginning. But what to do? It’s unfortunate that there are no means of birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.
And that we as a society put little to no value on human life. Unless it is a life that is deemed worthy. I hope people realize (especially ‘educated’ white women) where this line of thinking is going to get us.
I'm an "educated white woman" and I am frequently disgusted by my demographic. I feel in general that they have been so pampered that they don't see danger coming down the track from all of this.
I am one too which is why I felt it was OK to use the term, and I am disgusted as well. We finally get to some level of equality and ‘power’ and this is what we do with it. I guess we are human just like everyone else :).
EXACTLY THIS. What makes us human (with those rights outlined in our Constitution) is THE question. Especially medical advances and the advent of sentient AI, this question is the question our global society needs to answer. And the fact that no one is even talking about it proves yet again that our politicians are just using it to win elections.
I keep wondering why women who demand control over “their” bodies can’t keep their knees together.
very funny...comes to never-the-less.
Women also demand equal rights with men. It was about 45 years ago that I first pointed out that a man’s ability to control his reproduction ends at intercourse. And yes, although the repercussions of an unwanted pregnancy weigh more heavily upon the expectant mother, nature addresses that imbalance.
That's certainly what they demand of men if the man doesn't want to be on the hook for child support. He needs to keep his pants zipped, because he's on the hook from the moment he ejaculates.
If birth control fails, the woman can go get an abortion, but the man is out of luck if the woman decides to go ahead and have the baby. Hand over your wallet, dude!
And that doesn't even begin to consider the women who lie about being on birth control in order to "trap" a man into becoming the father of her child.
that's it...i'm sipped
Not to pile on, but what if the ejaculator doesn't want the baby aborted?
This is what we've become. A nation of birthing people and ejaculators. If only the National Lampoon of the 70s were still around.
So much for equal protection under the law.
I am so with you.
I told my boys repeatedly, “women lie just as often as men and their lies can have vicious consequences for you and any child you may unintentionally create.”
And the absurdity of “why should I tell a woman what’re do with her body?”
Uhhh that happen ALL THE TIME. Women can’t legally smoke heroin, drive drunk, etc. it’s a ridiculous claim.
Marie...pleasant to hear. thanks.
So I’ll be catty and ask, Do most of those women in that photo really need to worry about needing an abortion someday?
NC...my thought...genitive. thanks
Really? Go to the Matt Gaetz, accused of sexually trafficking minors, level? The issue of abortion is morally and legally so important that it should never go to "is she cute?" remark. Do women who have aged out of cute (if they ever were in that group) and out of reproduction still have the ability to make political statements about abortion?
I'm sorry, but I think NC was simply injecting a little humor into the discussion, and even though I smiled when I first read it, I assumed someone was going to torch her on it.
I don't believe that there is any topic that is so 'morally and legally important' that it can't be poked at. In fact, the more important a topic is, the more it would benefit by lightened the conversation a bit. I worked in hospitals for 30 years, and I tell you, most would be appalled by the dark humor amongst clinicians during high stress situations.
But that's simply my opinion.