Do you even have to cheat to get a degree? I thought as long as you didn't get behind on your payments, and you were really тАЬtrying your bestтАЭ, you were sure to pass.
Granted, I haven't taught in 20 years, but you can believe me when I say that I never once knew or cared whether a student was behind on their payments during my grading. That wasn't my job. And I didn't pass everyone, and I was not unusual in that respect.
Well....I guess if I had a four year window for undergrad, three year window for grad school where I didn't have to work a low-wage job, etc. to survive and pay for needs. I guess you watch a bunch of Master Classes, YouTube tutorials and hang out in the library all day. Not sure what my resume would look like that aftewards.
I guess you could also go to the local university and audit classes? Maybe get to know the professors that could write you some recommendation letters? Or go by career services and get hooked up with some internship opportunities?
Is college for everyone? No. But it is interesting to watch, for certain segments of Ameticans, an animosity and resentment towards education past High School.
Over a lifetime, college grads earn substantially more than non-college grads, so I'm pretty happy with my decision.
I have to agree with Comprof on this one. Sure technically you could self-learn a lot of subjects with unlimited time and bucketloads of motivation but I would argue that it requires far more self-discipline than most people have and will take much longer than a traditional college format. My grad school courses are low-rigor in an accelerated format (itтАЩs a real university not WGU to be clear) and I spend roughly 20-25 hours per week per 4 credit course. And memorization and understanding application come pretty easy to me. I work 50 hours per week, have 3 young kids, and sit on a couple boards. I have ZERO time for anything else and my quantity of sleep is impacted. I can confidently say though that the formal materials and good instructors are worth the cost - I have learned far more than I would have been able to if I had done it myself. The problem is, the good professors seem to be slowly becoming the exception, there is a lot of bureaucratic bloat, and people treat it as a social experience instead of an academic one which leads to cheating, subpar quality, and a dime a dozen degree holders that dilute the true value of what a degree should be. I think there are a lot of flaws in higher education but it would be unfair to pretend that itтАЩs completely value-less and society would be no different with a bunch of self-taught adults.
Your proposition is that eveything one learns in college, can be learned on your own and for pretty much free and in shorter amount of time.
Yes, are there the "basket weaving classes," etc? (which by the way, I've never seen listed) Maybe something called "textile arts" or something in the Art Dept.?
Yes, you could definitely learn that on your own. Outside of that....wouldn't really trust an 18 year old to be competent in 99% of other areas.
You know who I'm glad isn't self-taught? My auto mechanic, my HVAC guy, etc.
I get it. It's fun on this board to bash "elite leftists" and apparently everything is "woke," and students are being screamed at 8 hours a day about how they're oppresors, being "indoctrinated" and automatically failed/expelled if they disagree with a faculty member, etc.
But IMO if colleges and universities suddenly disappeared and we had to rely on everyone teaching themselves....probably wouldn't wind up in a good spot.
I have no animosity toward education. Perhaps I would've had a formal one had I not dropped out of high school to pursue twenty years of substance abuse, only to sober up one day and realize I had a thirst for knowledge.
Cheat all you want. Education is a process, not an event. It's about learning how much you are capable of.
Someday there will be something you want very badly - you'll be up against someone who did the work, learned the skills - and they will run over you.
One can only hope. The тАЬcommunity poolтАЭ is polluted.
Unless, of course, the job after which you seek is dependent upon some "affirmative action" quotas.......
Or the legacy admission, which is affirmative action for white people.
Shhhhh!!
I'm tired of unqualified white women getting jobs, too.
How about unqualified black women?
Sure. But the issue is that white women benefit more than anyone else from "affirmative action."
Just like other people are tired of white men getting jobs?
But....they still are, all over the place, so there's that.
Do you even have to cheat to get a degree? I thought as long as you didn't get behind on your payments, and you were really тАЬtrying your bestтАЭ, you were sure to pass.
That sure wasn't what it was like when I was at UCSB 20 years ago. Pretty easy to fail
Granted, I haven't taught in 20 years, but you can believe me when I say that I never once knew or cared whether a student was behind on their payments during my grading. That wasn't my job. And I didn't pass everyone, and I was not unusual in that respect.
Well....lots of people who are not in academia think that.
Was that supposed to be an insult?
Just an observation. Take however you wish.
Besides the experience, what did you get from college that cannot be learned outside of college for free?
If a topic is difficult it can be very helpful to have a knowledgeable instructor to help.
Moreover, a long term guided plan is usually a good idea. As much as a I love YouTube, there is a benefit to paying for good instruction.
Well....I guess if I had a four year window for undergrad, three year window for grad school where I didn't have to work a low-wage job, etc. to survive and pay for needs. I guess you watch a bunch of Master Classes, YouTube tutorials and hang out in the library all day. Not sure what my resume would look like that aftewards.
I guess you could also go to the local university and audit classes? Maybe get to know the professors that could write you some recommendation letters? Or go by career services and get hooked up with some internship opportunities?
Is college for everyone? No. But it is interesting to watch, for certain segments of Ameticans, an animosity and resentment towards education past High School.
Over a lifetime, college grads earn substantially more than non-college grads, so I'm pretty happy with my decision.
I have to agree with Comprof on this one. Sure technically you could self-learn a lot of subjects with unlimited time and bucketloads of motivation but I would argue that it requires far more self-discipline than most people have and will take much longer than a traditional college format. My grad school courses are low-rigor in an accelerated format (itтАЩs a real university not WGU to be clear) and I spend roughly 20-25 hours per week per 4 credit course. And memorization and understanding application come pretty easy to me. I work 50 hours per week, have 3 young kids, and sit on a couple boards. I have ZERO time for anything else and my quantity of sleep is impacted. I can confidently say though that the formal materials and good instructors are worth the cost - I have learned far more than I would have been able to if I had done it myself. The problem is, the good professors seem to be slowly becoming the exception, there is a lot of bureaucratic bloat, and people treat it as a social experience instead of an academic one which leads to cheating, subpar quality, and a dime a dozen degree holders that dilute the true value of what a degree should be. I think there are a lot of flaws in higher education but it would be unfair to pretend that itтАЩs completely value-less and society would be no different with a bunch of self-taught adults.
I never said it was valueless.
Your proposition is that eveything one learns in college, can be learned on your own and for pretty much free and in shorter amount of time.
Yes, are there the "basket weaving classes," etc? (which by the way, I've never seen listed) Maybe something called "textile arts" or something in the Art Dept.?
Yes, you could definitely learn that on your own. Outside of that....wouldn't really trust an 18 year old to be competent in 99% of other areas.
You know who I'm glad isn't self-taught? My auto mechanic, my HVAC guy, etc.
I get it. It's fun on this board to bash "elite leftists" and apparently everything is "woke," and students are being screamed at 8 hours a day about how they're oppresors, being "indoctrinated" and automatically failed/expelled if they disagree with a faculty member, etc.
But IMO if colleges and universities suddenly disappeared and we had to rely on everyone teaching themselves....probably wouldn't wind up in a good spot.
I have no animosity toward education. Perhaps I would've had a formal one had I not dropped out of high school to pursue twenty years of substance abuse, only to sober up one day and realize I had a thirst for knowledge.
Everything you learned during college could be learned in less time, though. A lot less time.
And nobody is denying that a degree earns you a better-paying job.
Nah. You couldn't. Would be too busy working. Also wouldn't have access to labs, materials, facilities, etc.
But if your argumemt is correct, then high school grads should be killing it economically and be able to compete on the same level.
Oh, and I make a solid living working only twenty hours a week, so I wouldn't be тАЬtoo busy workingтАЭ.
Not every field requires labs and materials.