As a married, lifelong feminist with two adult children and a grandchild, I can tell you that feminism is still very much needed - for both men and women. Just not the feminism promoted today. Third wave feminism has been co-opted by big porn and predatory capitalism which indoctrinated women into turning their bodies and sexuality into …
As a married, lifelong feminist with two adult children and a grandchild, I can tell you that feminism is still very much needed - for both men and women. Just not the feminism promoted today. Third wave feminism has been co-opted by big porn and predatory capitalism which indoctrinated women into turning their bodies and sexuality into commodities for the benefit of men. Essentially destroying what the feminist movement was about. Fighting against the sexual objectification if women. Patriarchy rears its ugly head and both men and women are exploited for the benefit of the oligarchs who are - you guessed it - mostly men.
Think about it -feminism simply would not exist today if everything was peachy keen for women 100 years ago when working women, and their children, had no vote, no reproductive freedom, no financial independence, no basic human rights or even bodily autonomy. They lost their children if they left their husbands due to abuse. I could go on, but suffice to say it was a hellscape for women and girls. Men were not always the providers and protectors the way we're told they were back when the suffragettes began the women's liberation movement. They were treated as chattel no matter how destitute or abusive their husband.
Fast forward to today, there are women and girls still suffering in extremely patriarchal cultures with sharia laws, female genital mutilation, menstrual huts, no education, inadequate maternal care. This is what women endured globally with the exception of wealthy women. We forget just how bad things were then when we encourage women to become trad-wives and men to become 'protectors and providers'. It's so tiresome having to remind people of just how bad it was and could be again.
Here's a thought: Why not teach BOTH men and women that they have options and let men and women sort it out for themselves. Men will likely be drawn to do the protecting and providing and women the bearing and nurturing of children. Feminism when I was young was my way of escaping the trap of abuse and destitution that my mom and her generation were forced to endure because virtually ALL the men of her generation were drinkers, wife-beaters, rapists, child molesters. All my mother wanted was to be a homemaker and raise children. She had FIVE children by the time she was 25 years old. She dreamed of living the perfect life with my father, but after 12 years of his drinking, violence, rape, child molestation and lack of financial stability she finally kicked him out. I was 9 at the time. She fought to keep us and to keep him out of our lives - unsuccessfully. He never paid a dime in child support.
So, she made her way, without child support and with the church she loved abandoning her and telling her she should continue to endure this despicable man who did not 'protect and provide'. Oh, but he was masculine, tough, charming. This was NOT the exception in my extended family. It was COMMON.
So, bash feminism and feminists all you want, but today I'm a successful, confident, happy, healthy 64 year old grandmother who once had a married life with 2 children. Due to her strong example, I made my way in the world and provided for my children in a way I never could have because, I, too, ended up with an abusive, irresponsible husband from whom I separated after 19 years together.
I don't see men or women/feminism as the problem here, I see the entire economic system as exploitative. The problem is not that men aren't masculine enough, or women feminine enough. The problem is that the traditional stereotypical roles defined for human beings just isn't working. It's designed to serve the powerful. It's designed to restrict and control human beings and their sexuality into rigid behaviour that keeps the predatory capitalists happy working away making them billions in profits, while the average man and woman struggles to create and maintain a family. They're siphoning off our life energy to make obscene profits while degrading our land, food, air, water making us sick and dependent on a medical system that extracts the last bit of profit from our bodies until we finally expire from exhaustion.
This current predatory capitalism economic system was/is designed to serve the oligarchs - the alpha males in our culture. (BTW: Communism did the same thing). This economic system is what gave rise to the need for women's liberation, then feminism, which was women's way of saying - "We can't care for ourselves and our children like this!" - and it pitted men and women against each other instead of seeing who our real enemy was/is - the billionaires who set up this system of economic dependence which robbed us of our humanity, dignity and connection to each other as men and women.
I have a vision of a world where men and women are raised as children to love and respect each other AS INDIVIDUALS and allow them to pursue their goals unimpeded by rigid gender stereotypes WITHOUT the feminist propaganda that's promoted today. Today's 'feminism' is so far from what the original goals were that you cannot even call it feminism. I call it 'porn feminism' because it's based on the sexual objectification and exploitation of young women's bodies, minds and hearts.
We cannot create a healthy culture when women are valued only for their bodies and sexuality, and men only for their wallets and muscles. Could we not simply encourage and support both men and women to be kind, responsible, healthy and wise? Could we not recognize that the SYSTEM is the problem and it serves only the oligarchs. This should be a class war, not a war between men and women. We should be fighting together to take down an economic system which treats men and women as commodities, not human beings. That's the future that I'm working towards for my children and granddaughter. Bashing feminism and by extension, women who strive to be whole, independent human beings only serves to imprison us all back into gender stereotypes which serve the oligarchs and create division where there should be connection.
Just my take on it. For the girls whose genitals are being mutilated as I write, I must continue to work to free them and all women from male supremacy.
> For the girls whose genitals are being mutilated as I write, I must continue to work to free them and all women from male supremacy.
You should be doing that work in Africa. "[Recogniz[ing] that the SYSTEM is the problem" will help only if you recognize the system in Somalia, Guinia, Djibouti, Egypt, Sierra Leone, Mali, or Sudan. Unless you believe that the US/Europe isn't doing enough to stop FGM in Africa (which is probably true).
Don't conflate truly awful cultural practices carried out in Africa with the West. These are wholly different issues, not even in the same ball park. European culture never practiced genital mutilation. If you're concerned about specific women's rights issues in the West (of which there are some), those are worth bringing up separately without needing to invoke practices that were never part of our society and that nearly everyone outside Africa condemns. Please don't draw a false equivalency.
FYI: I actually do contribute to solving these problems which are simply extreme examples of women's oppression. You incorrectly assumed I don't.
In any case, choosing an example you're not familiar with is not false equivalency. It basically reveals your lack of awareness of the vast scope of the problem and the reason why feminism exists in the first place.
So you're looking for feminist issues in the west? (Even though I already provided several including my own personal life.) How about something becoming more common every day in western countries - the erasure in law of the category of women. How about the men pretending to be women claiming their sports titles, their awards, their jobs etc. etc? How about the laws being changed to allow men free access to women's washrooms, locker rooms simply by declaring they are a woman? If the woman complains because there are young girls present, SHE'S kicked out of the facilities and loses her membership. How about men who are convicted of extreme violence and rape pretending to be women and demanding to be housed in women's prisons? Then subsequently raping and impregnating them there. Including autistic women. These men now number in the HUNDREDS. How about the daily routine violence committed against sex workers? How about the fact that there is zero paid leave for mothers in the US? How about the #MeToo movement? How about rape crisis centres?
I could go on ad infinitum about the injustices women face because if their sex. Feminism is not just for western women, it's meant to free ALL women no matter where they are because until ALL women are free from male violence and exploitation, no woman is safe. Nor are men free of the damage it does to their psyche to be inculcated to believe women deserve to be treated as less then human. It's all intended to imprison humanity and allow the oligarchs to control us. Women/feminism had as its original goal the freedom of ALL human beings but it appears men don't want to let go of their desire to feel superior to women, to control their sexuality, their reproductive rights, their bodily autonomy. Unless/until this changes, humanity will continue to suffer.
Final question: WHY are men who are supposedly concerned about the truth and justice not holding these violent and abusive MEN accountable instead of demonizing the women who are desperately trying to survive the abuse and get justice for themselves and their daughters ? How can you DEFEND a system that allows women to be treated this way? Why are you arguing with me for stating facts? No matter where it's happening in the world, these are FACTS not my opinions. When will all good men speak up against the horrors being committed in their name? Women have merely been trying to protect themselves and their children since the beginning. But the violence is escalating. The small percentage of good men who DO speak up are not enough.
Finally, I really have to wonder why men have always focused on women speaking out and demonize women who are simply holding predators and pedophiles accountable. Why would that be? If men truly do care about women, would they not want to shut down the few men who supposedly are causing the fear that women feel towards men? Is it because subconsciously it benefits men for women to be in a constant state of fear of men? easier to dominate and control women. Ultimately, whom does that fear really serve? It serves the oligarchs because it divides men and women. It keeps all of us in a state of constant battle.
The class war that has been going on for millenia is kept going by teaching men and boys from an early age that bullying, dominating and controlling women is appropriate behaviour which keeps all human beings traumatized and willing to follow orders. It's time we evolved. Men are not by nature violent. They may be more aggressive by nature, but only against predators, not their kin. This bullying behaviour is taught to young boys which destroys their humanity. Thus, we're headed over a cliff while the billionaires are rolling in unearned wealth extracted from the labour of wage slaves.
It would take generations to change the trajectory. Maybe, if enough people agree with you, it can be done to some extent. In the meantime, it's an individual endeavor.
There will always be oligarchs. Someone has to be in charge. Anarchy doesn't work, and it's the natural order of things in the animal and human world to have a strong leader. Of course too many chiefs and not enough Indians leads to more wars.
Why is there always an assumption that there are only two alternatives - oligarchy/anarchy. This is why we can't get off this hamster wheel. We're an incredibly creative and intelligent species. You've been so indoctrinated into a duality mindset that you cannot even imagine any other alternatives. This is why the oligarchs win. People believe the lies of the 1%.
So you're OK with FGM, menstrual huts, burqas, female impoverishment, etc.?
Maybe I sound like a human being who sees the injustice of it all and tries to make the world a little less unjust for my children. I, a single concerned mom who's survived horrific abuse, do not have the power to destroy an entire culture. You must be mistaking me for the men who have their finger on the nuclear missile button AS WE SPEAK.
In any case, I do not wish to force anything upon anyone. Do as you please. I am just sick of the violence I've personally endured and that women still endure today at the hands of the men who supposedly love them.
Have you seen porn lately? It's appalling what they do to women in the name of sexual gratification. If it was done to an average person the street they'd be charged with torture.
So, no. I have the audacity to believe that women and girls deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. If that sounds like a terrifying prospect, then I don't want to live in your world.
When will your brand of feminism teach young women that they need to find a marriage partner that maybe DOESN'T make more than them? Some today MAY say that they don't have a "list", but relatively FEW actually do NOT!
First, my 'brand' of feminism' doesn't exist. There are 4 billion women and girls on the planet. Feminism in its original goals was intended to fight for basic human rights and freedoms. As I described at length in my post, the faux feminists we're seeing today are the result of porn culture. They've sadly been indoctrinated into a toxic version of feminism which is intentionally designed to destroy women's basic human rights.
That's all that most women are asking for - whether they call themselves feminists or not - Basic. Human. Rights. Not scary at all if you're man enough not to be frightened by a woman who fights to be treated with dignity and respect. But if you ARE frightened by any woman who isn't submissive and weak, then you are the problem.
This might be a generational thing -- I'm Gen X, my husband a few years older and we've been married for 30 years -- but I've always made as much or more money than my husband. There came a point in our marriage where I was making enough where he could quit the job he was miserable at. He then took over many of the kid duties (we have 5, youngest now 19) -- driving to school/practice, e.g. -- and all the cleaning (I still cook because he can't/won't). He had some issues early on because he felt he needed to make more/have a career like his brothers, but ultimately, I was doing what I love and making good money, and he wasn't working himself into an early grave in a job that gave him high blood pressure and a lot of stress -- and we could pay the mortgage and raise the kids. I'm definitely conservative AND a feminist -- though I wouldn't be considered a feminist by today's standards.
As a married, lifelong feminist with two adult children and a grandchild, I can tell you that feminism is still very much needed - for both men and women. Just not the feminism promoted today. Third wave feminism has been co-opted by big porn and predatory capitalism which indoctrinated women into turning their bodies and sexuality into commodities for the benefit of men. Essentially destroying what the feminist movement was about. Fighting against the sexual objectification if women. Patriarchy rears its ugly head and both men and women are exploited for the benefit of the oligarchs who are - you guessed it - mostly men.
Think about it -feminism simply would not exist today if everything was peachy keen for women 100 years ago when working women, and their children, had no vote, no reproductive freedom, no financial independence, no basic human rights or even bodily autonomy. They lost their children if they left their husbands due to abuse. I could go on, but suffice to say it was a hellscape for women and girls. Men were not always the providers and protectors the way we're told they were back when the suffragettes began the women's liberation movement. They were treated as chattel no matter how destitute or abusive their husband.
Fast forward to today, there are women and girls still suffering in extremely patriarchal cultures with sharia laws, female genital mutilation, menstrual huts, no education, inadequate maternal care. This is what women endured globally with the exception of wealthy women. We forget just how bad things were then when we encourage women to become trad-wives and men to become 'protectors and providers'. It's so tiresome having to remind people of just how bad it was and could be again.
Here's a thought: Why not teach BOTH men and women that they have options and let men and women sort it out for themselves. Men will likely be drawn to do the protecting and providing and women the bearing and nurturing of children. Feminism when I was young was my way of escaping the trap of abuse and destitution that my mom and her generation were forced to endure because virtually ALL the men of her generation were drinkers, wife-beaters, rapists, child molesters. All my mother wanted was to be a homemaker and raise children. She had FIVE children by the time she was 25 years old. She dreamed of living the perfect life with my father, but after 12 years of his drinking, violence, rape, child molestation and lack of financial stability she finally kicked him out. I was 9 at the time. She fought to keep us and to keep him out of our lives - unsuccessfully. He never paid a dime in child support.
So, she made her way, without child support and with the church she loved abandoning her and telling her she should continue to endure this despicable man who did not 'protect and provide'. Oh, but he was masculine, tough, charming. This was NOT the exception in my extended family. It was COMMON.
So, bash feminism and feminists all you want, but today I'm a successful, confident, happy, healthy 64 year old grandmother who once had a married life with 2 children. Due to her strong example, I made my way in the world and provided for my children in a way I never could have because, I, too, ended up with an abusive, irresponsible husband from whom I separated after 19 years together.
I don't see men or women/feminism as the problem here, I see the entire economic system as exploitative. The problem is not that men aren't masculine enough, or women feminine enough. The problem is that the traditional stereotypical roles defined for human beings just isn't working. It's designed to serve the powerful. It's designed to restrict and control human beings and their sexuality into rigid behaviour that keeps the predatory capitalists happy working away making them billions in profits, while the average man and woman struggles to create and maintain a family. They're siphoning off our life energy to make obscene profits while degrading our land, food, air, water making us sick and dependent on a medical system that extracts the last bit of profit from our bodies until we finally expire from exhaustion.
This current predatory capitalism economic system was/is designed to serve the oligarchs - the alpha males in our culture. (BTW: Communism did the same thing). This economic system is what gave rise to the need for women's liberation, then feminism, which was women's way of saying - "We can't care for ourselves and our children like this!" - and it pitted men and women against each other instead of seeing who our real enemy was/is - the billionaires who set up this system of economic dependence which robbed us of our humanity, dignity and connection to each other as men and women.
I have a vision of a world where men and women are raised as children to love and respect each other AS INDIVIDUALS and allow them to pursue their goals unimpeded by rigid gender stereotypes WITHOUT the feminist propaganda that's promoted today. Today's 'feminism' is so far from what the original goals were that you cannot even call it feminism. I call it 'porn feminism' because it's based on the sexual objectification and exploitation of young women's bodies, minds and hearts.
We cannot create a healthy culture when women are valued only for their bodies and sexuality, and men only for their wallets and muscles. Could we not simply encourage and support both men and women to be kind, responsible, healthy and wise? Could we not recognize that the SYSTEM is the problem and it serves only the oligarchs. This should be a class war, not a war between men and women. We should be fighting together to take down an economic system which treats men and women as commodities, not human beings. That's the future that I'm working towards for my children and granddaughter. Bashing feminism and by extension, women who strive to be whole, independent human beings only serves to imprison us all back into gender stereotypes which serve the oligarchs and create division where there should be connection.
Just my take on it. For the girls whose genitals are being mutilated as I write, I must continue to work to free them and all women from male supremacy.
> For the girls whose genitals are being mutilated as I write, I must continue to work to free them and all women from male supremacy.
You should be doing that work in Africa. "[Recogniz[ing] that the SYSTEM is the problem" will help only if you recognize the system in Somalia, Guinia, Djibouti, Egypt, Sierra Leone, Mali, or Sudan. Unless you believe that the US/Europe isn't doing enough to stop FGM in Africa (which is probably true).
Don't conflate truly awful cultural practices carried out in Africa with the West. These are wholly different issues, not even in the same ball park. European culture never practiced genital mutilation. If you're concerned about specific women's rights issues in the West (of which there are some), those are worth bringing up separately without needing to invoke practices that were never part of our society and that nearly everyone outside Africa condemns. Please don't draw a false equivalency.
FYI: I actually do contribute to solving these problems which are simply extreme examples of women's oppression. You incorrectly assumed I don't.
In any case, choosing an example you're not familiar with is not false equivalency. It basically reveals your lack of awareness of the vast scope of the problem and the reason why feminism exists in the first place.
So you're looking for feminist issues in the west? (Even though I already provided several including my own personal life.) How about something becoming more common every day in western countries - the erasure in law of the category of women. How about the men pretending to be women claiming their sports titles, their awards, their jobs etc. etc? How about the laws being changed to allow men free access to women's washrooms, locker rooms simply by declaring they are a woman? If the woman complains because there are young girls present, SHE'S kicked out of the facilities and loses her membership. How about men who are convicted of extreme violence and rape pretending to be women and demanding to be housed in women's prisons? Then subsequently raping and impregnating them there. Including autistic women. These men now number in the HUNDREDS. How about the daily routine violence committed against sex workers? How about the fact that there is zero paid leave for mothers in the US? How about the #MeToo movement? How about rape crisis centres?
I could go on ad infinitum about the injustices women face because if their sex. Feminism is not just for western women, it's meant to free ALL women no matter where they are because until ALL women are free from male violence and exploitation, no woman is safe. Nor are men free of the damage it does to their psyche to be inculcated to believe women deserve to be treated as less then human. It's all intended to imprison humanity and allow the oligarchs to control us. Women/feminism had as its original goal the freedom of ALL human beings but it appears men don't want to let go of their desire to feel superior to women, to control their sexuality, their reproductive rights, their bodily autonomy. Unless/until this changes, humanity will continue to suffer.
Final question: WHY are men who are supposedly concerned about the truth and justice not holding these violent and abusive MEN accountable instead of demonizing the women who are desperately trying to survive the abuse and get justice for themselves and their daughters ? How can you DEFEND a system that allows women to be treated this way? Why are you arguing with me for stating facts? No matter where it's happening in the world, these are FACTS not my opinions. When will all good men speak up against the horrors being committed in their name? Women have merely been trying to protect themselves and their children since the beginning. But the violence is escalating. The small percentage of good men who DO speak up are not enough.
Finally, I really have to wonder why men have always focused on women speaking out and demonize women who are simply holding predators and pedophiles accountable. Why would that be? If men truly do care about women, would they not want to shut down the few men who supposedly are causing the fear that women feel towards men? Is it because subconsciously it benefits men for women to be in a constant state of fear of men? easier to dominate and control women. Ultimately, whom does that fear really serve? It serves the oligarchs because it divides men and women. It keeps all of us in a state of constant battle.
The class war that has been going on for millenia is kept going by teaching men and boys from an early age that bullying, dominating and controlling women is appropriate behaviour which keeps all human beings traumatized and willing to follow orders. It's time we evolved. Men are not by nature violent. They may be more aggressive by nature, but only against predators, not their kin. This bullying behaviour is taught to young boys which destroys their humanity. Thus, we're headed over a cliff while the billionaires are rolling in unearned wealth extracted from the labour of wage slaves.
A lovely Utopian dream. If only..........
It would take generations to change the trajectory. Maybe, if enough people agree with you, it can be done to some extent. In the meantime, it's an individual endeavor.
There will always be oligarchs. Someone has to be in charge. Anarchy doesn't work, and it's the natural order of things in the animal and human world to have a strong leader. Of course too many chiefs and not enough Indians leads to more wars.
Why is there always an assumption that there are only two alternatives - oligarchy/anarchy. This is why we can't get off this hamster wheel. We're an incredibly creative and intelligent species. You've been so indoctrinated into a duality mindset that you cannot even imagine any other alternatives. This is why the oligarchs win. People believe the lies of the 1%.
Hint: We can choose something different.
You sound like a 15th century Catholic missionary completely assured of your righteousness and prepared to destroy cultures that violate your beliefs.
So you're OK with FGM, menstrual huts, burqas, female impoverishment, etc.?
Maybe I sound like a human being who sees the injustice of it all and tries to make the world a little less unjust for my children. I, a single concerned mom who's survived horrific abuse, do not have the power to destroy an entire culture. You must be mistaking me for the men who have their finger on the nuclear missile button AS WE SPEAK.
In any case, I do not wish to force anything upon anyone. Do as you please. I am just sick of the violence I've personally endured and that women still endure today at the hands of the men who supposedly love them.
Have you seen porn lately? It's appalling what they do to women in the name of sexual gratification. If it was done to an average person the street they'd be charged with torture.
So, no. I have the audacity to believe that women and girls deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. If that sounds like a terrifying prospect, then I don't want to live in your world.
When will your brand of feminism teach young women that they need to find a marriage partner that maybe DOESN'T make more than them? Some today MAY say that they don't have a "list", but relatively FEW actually do NOT!
First, my 'brand' of feminism' doesn't exist. There are 4 billion women and girls on the planet. Feminism in its original goals was intended to fight for basic human rights and freedoms. As I described at length in my post, the faux feminists we're seeing today are the result of porn culture. They've sadly been indoctrinated into a toxic version of feminism which is intentionally designed to destroy women's basic human rights.
That's all that most women are asking for - whether they call themselves feminists or not - Basic. Human. Rights. Not scary at all if you're man enough not to be frightened by a woman who fights to be treated with dignity and respect. But if you ARE frightened by any woman who isn't submissive and weak, then you are the problem.
This might be a generational thing -- I'm Gen X, my husband a few years older and we've been married for 30 years -- but I've always made as much or more money than my husband. There came a point in our marriage where I was making enough where he could quit the job he was miserable at. He then took over many of the kid duties (we have 5, youngest now 19) -- driving to school/practice, e.g. -- and all the cleaning (I still cook because he can't/won't). He had some issues early on because he felt he needed to make more/have a career like his brothers, but ultimately, I was doing what I love and making good money, and he wasn't working himself into an early grave in a job that gave him high blood pressure and a lot of stress -- and we could pay the mortgage and raise the kids. I'm definitely conservative AND a feminist -- though I wouldn't be considered a feminist by today's standards.