This was a sad, yet familar topic. I got canceled as well just before Christmas by people I thought were friends or at least friendly colleagues. It was rough, but I got off social media. I got called the entire playbook of names, got emails and phone calls with death threats, rape threats towards my wife, and dogs. Thankfully I had always isolated my work life and got counciling with my wife.
Treat this as a sickness and isolate the infected and ignore them. It tooks months but I finally am feeling better. Find your bless. And thank you, Mr. Marshall.
On the money, in all aspects. There’s one additional thing we can do in America, and that’s for Dems (and former Dems, like me) to refuse to vote Democratic as long as the party supports censorship and/or authoritarian ideals. Yet the GOP alternative is a bridge too far for many of us old school liberals, so that leaves THE only solution: It’s party time in America … Third Party Time. #thirdpartytime2024
I listen to NPR everyday and have since I was a teen in the 90s. I still love NPR and the idea of it and its past. Linda Wertheimer spoke at my college graduation in 1999--a few friends and I smugly thought our fellow graduates were so out of touch that they didn't realize the gem of a human we had sending us off out into the great unknown to follow our bliss.
Now. Now in 2022 I listen to NPR and over the past since-there's-a-vaccine-time how the unvaccinated have caused loved ones to die. The PBS News Hour used to have "people we have lost to covid" memorials which were very touching and tragic. But I wonder about the motivation. Is it for the greater good? Is it to bring forth legions of the true believers to hate and spurn the others? I am so saddened by this. Why couldn't this virus have united us to fix the problem and be better? We're not all in this together. I'm so disappointed in the country I love. This is not humane. This is not the way.
I wish that Joe Rogan would bring Senator Ron Johnson to his show and discuss the vaccine injured. Why isn't this discussed in the full light of day? If it is a conspiracy, let's sort it out! I remember when Senator Tom Cotton posted his Op-Ed and then the NYTimes started this mess of canceling voices of elected officials. Ron Johnson is a sitting senator in the United States of America. Bring him on and talk to him. Hell, bring on Obama and drink beer or smoke weed and talk. We need this. We need to talk to each other. I'm not afraid of covid at this point, I'm afraid of having a solid country left.
It really is one of the oldest tricks in the book—the powers that be, get YOU to do their dirty work for them, either by buying you off (Young and Blackstone) or scaring you...fear is at play in both methods, fear of losing what you have or fear of being on the bottom of the dog pile. Young is a disgrace.
Not surprised musicians stand with terror cults like Hamas and support misogynistic fascists men from the middle east. It is nothing more than altruism on steroids to cleanse their sins and decadent behavior from the past springled with the usual bit of antisemitism. Young and Mitchel are both brilliant, but they are Canadians and just can't help themselves. Joni who still apparently smokes three packs of cigarettes a day and lives in laurel canyon the hub of virtue along with other minstrel singers like Mr. Young whom I'm sure never bedded an underage groupie in the 70's have nothing better to do then pontificate along with all those other bong smoking opiniated almost octogenarian great white northerners. They are the last bunch that should be preaching anything to anyone regarding discussions relative to health. Please go back to Canada where you will be embraced by Canadas first female prime minister Justina. And please take Seth Rogan with you. As for Marshall Matters, you should have stood your ground. You make millions playing a freaking banjo. Not sure what message you thought you were sending.
There’s a difference between promoting a false narrative during a global health crisis vs stating unpopular political views, Soviet censorship or blaming a politician for committing a racist act during college. Platforms such as social media or Spotify feature news or opinion pieces that provide the same service as traditional journalism where it’s a common practice to fact check. There are clear facts about the efficacy of vaccines and about Covid. Neil Young, like many of us, might have had friends or family members who had Covid. I believe that he was expressing an act of frustration rather than one of cancellation.
This video is crap; two guys are implying Joe Rogan should be taken off of Spotify because he threw around the N-word in the distant past. Joe may be an insensitive good old boy, but he sure as hell ain’t a racist!
Been a huge fan of Mumford and Sons for years. It was playing non stop when I laid flooring in my old house - redoing it to get ready for the birth of my daughter. We made her room up real nice, and your great music played daily while I worked. I had no idea you wrote on this substack, and only realized it halfway through this piece. You are as talented a writer as you are musician. Brilliantly written, and nail on the head. The issue is the quietness of those who agree with more speech, less censorship. I think these people are in the vast majority, numerically and only need to spine up to curb this totalitarian mob nonsense.
I wonder if he regrets taking that $100M. Probably not, but man, if he were self-publishing his podcast, he could keep all the episodes up and interview whoever he wants. More money, more problems, though I could probably put up with some grief for that kind of money.
The more and more I listen to Joe Rogan (which I never had before knowing about the Dr. Malone show, thank you Streisand Effect!), the more I feel like he is the everyman's Charlie Rose. I really do believe if the critics of Joe Rogan actually listened to a sample of his shows, they would see the value of his exploration.
I tried to find an actual transcript of a bit of the #1769 Jordan Peterson (Jan 25, 2022) show but I couldn't, so I just typed out a bit of something I wanted to share.
This is from about 1 hour 32 minutes into the conversation.
Jordan Peterson: "You know this, Joe, the fact that you're so popular, this is a mystery. And I've been tweeting about it while people have been attacking you. Why is Joe Rogan so popular? He's a gateway to the alt-right. No, he's the psychedelic hippy. No, that's a stupid hypothesis. That's wrong. Well, he's a propagandist. No. Joe is an honest man. And he actually says what he believes to be true. But let's think about that. 'Cause that isn't exactly what you do. You follow the conversation and you listen and you spontaneously manifest words that indicate your reaction. And it isn't the words themselves, exactly that are true, because you might be wrong and you might be right, right? I mean what do you know, what do I know? We're going to be wrong a bunch during this conversation. But, the process that we're manifesting in the discovery of truth and untruth. That's not wrong. That's exactly right. And you know when we're doing it because it's so engaging.
...
The mutual exploration of structures of truth through dialogue in good faith. In good faith. And then what does in good faith mean. First of all, I can trust you, and that has been my experience. You've never played games with me. We disagree, that's fun. I can trust you. You don't play games. I can talk to you. You listen and you say things. We have a conversation, it's real, it's fun. We fall into it. Time flies by, right? That's a cool thing. That the burden of temporal mortality lifts in the face of genuine dialogue."
You, seemingly so to me, suggested that "Perhaps a healthier response from Neil Young would’ve been for him..."
In keeping with the suggestion that to rebut poor argumentation is the valuable way to refine a response, may I respond that you conflate things here.
You begin with, "The Ministry of Culture had decreed ...", rightly (in my opinion) critiquing laws against free speech.
How, did you then conflate this outlawing of speech in the Soviet Union with "Moral majoritarians on the Christian Right and conservative organizations like the P on the Christian Right and conservative organizations like the Parents Music Resource Center worked hard through the 1980s and ‘90s to censor aarents Music Resource Center worked hard through the 1980s and ‘90s to censor artists." How did this group (the Moral majoritarians) attempt to do equally.
You seemingly go from bad to worse by suggesting that Ice-T had somehow rebutted Tipper Gore with,
“Yo, Tip, what’s the matter? You aint gettin’ no dick?"
There is such a thing as logic you know Winston. And I think that logic dictates that the cogency of Tipper's case has nothing to do with how much dick she is getting.
Let me adopt some of Ice-T's lyrics for you in this manner
"Say what we want, Winston - your argument is weak”
I assume that you'd agree that if Neil Young's complaint or his request to Spotify had been packaged as a song (ie. art) it would be no more cogent as an argument. Likewise, Ice-T's case (and yours by extension in using it) that what Tip attempting to censor is fallacious.
Oh my, all the crocodile tears over free speech and the comparisons to the Soviet Union some 50 years ago. The author assures us that he is not saying America in 2022 is just as repressive as the Soviet Union used to be but he starts out reminding us of how artists suffered under Soviet repression and then goes on to lament the fate of poor Joe Rogan who is being "persecuted" by some aging folk musicians. Joe Rogan is not an artist. He is a brutal businessman who figured out that if 1000 experts calmly explain something and one crackpot contrarian screams the opposite from the rooftops, the mouse clicks, downloads and profits will increase if he invites the contrarian on his "Joe Rogan Experience". Neil Young, Joni Mitchel et. al. are not proposing sending Rogan to the Gulag but are just making some noise that will hopefully put a dent in the popularity of this know-nothing loudmouth who got rich beyond his wildest dreams and now wields his popularity like a toddler who found his dad's loaded gun. In the unlikely case that Neil Young succeeds, Rogan may have to go back to commenting on Mixed Martial Arts fights - his real passion, according to his own website - and make only 10 million a year instead of 100 million. Poor baby. This is not about free speech - the media landscape has changed dramatically over the last 2 decades, let alone since the days of Soviet repression - this is just about unfettered capitalism in an age when outrage sells, and truth and decency does not. I have listened to many of Rogan's podcasts and granted, he is a skilled interviewer and his phony modesty ("I am just a dumbass") and his "average Joe" demeanor are at times endearing but he is nothing more than the typical arrogant "nouveau rich" who is full of himself and his unexpected wealth. This is the man who invited conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to his show and calmed him down after the latter went on his signature rants saying, "I love you Alex". What about the bereaved parents of the murdered Sandy Hook children who endured harassment and death threats thanks to Jones' claims that they were just actors in some conspiracy, their children not really murdered? Why would Rogan care? He is a businessman and having a well-known scumbag like Jones on his podcast produces results: clicks, downloads and profits. Free speech will not suffer a bit if characters like Rogan are pushed off the pedestal of a "truth teller". If his audience shrinks and Spotify finds Rogan no longer profitable and dumps him, what exactly would we lose? Oh yeah, I remember, something like Soviet Union taking over again. Get real, live in the present, not the past.
Thank you for your essay that is so spot on. I too am waiting to have other power people to step up voicing the wrong that is happening. I’m not claiming to be a history buff, but everything that is happening is in step with pre WWII Germany. It is scary as to how precise the steps in the control of peoples freedom and rights are slowly being taken away and given to the wrong people. Sexualizing of children has become the big theme of today’s culture behavior in Hollywood and politics. Why are we accepting this? There aren’t disagreements anymore, it’s either agreeing with or you are attached by those that you don’t agree with. Threatening, blackmail, and violence is the big picture now. The cover up of entertainment and politic criminalization has been the norm and we are expected to accept it and embrace it as the news media capitalizes on it. Why are we accepting this? Thank you Spotify for not bending to threats and blackmail by those who once stood with and for the people. Thank you Joe Rogan for bringing to light the people behind the truth of their work. Thank you Winston Marshall for your essay. Bullying is a powerful tool for those in the wrong and courage is a powerful tool for those in the right.
This was a sad, yet familar topic. I got canceled as well just before Christmas by people I thought were friends or at least friendly colleagues. It was rough, but I got off social media. I got called the entire playbook of names, got emails and phone calls with death threats, rape threats towards my wife, and dogs. Thankfully I had always isolated my work life and got counciling with my wife.
Treat this as a sickness and isolate the infected and ignore them. It tooks months but I finally am feeling better. Find your bless. And thank you, Mr. Marshall.
On the money, in all aspects. There’s one additional thing we can do in America, and that’s for Dems (and former Dems, like me) to refuse to vote Democratic as long as the party supports censorship and/or authoritarian ideals. Yet the GOP alternative is a bridge too far for many of us old school liberals, so that leaves THE only solution: It’s party time in America … Third Party Time. #thirdpartytime2024
I listen to NPR everyday and have since I was a teen in the 90s. I still love NPR and the idea of it and its past. Linda Wertheimer spoke at my college graduation in 1999--a few friends and I smugly thought our fellow graduates were so out of touch that they didn't realize the gem of a human we had sending us off out into the great unknown to follow our bliss.
Now. Now in 2022 I listen to NPR and over the past since-there's-a-vaccine-time how the unvaccinated have caused loved ones to die. The PBS News Hour used to have "people we have lost to covid" memorials which were very touching and tragic. But I wonder about the motivation. Is it for the greater good? Is it to bring forth legions of the true believers to hate and spurn the others? I am so saddened by this. Why couldn't this virus have united us to fix the problem and be better? We're not all in this together. I'm so disappointed in the country I love. This is not humane. This is not the way.
I wish that Joe Rogan would bring Senator Ron Johnson to his show and discuss the vaccine injured. Why isn't this discussed in the full light of day? If it is a conspiracy, let's sort it out! I remember when Senator Tom Cotton posted his Op-Ed and then the NYTimes started this mess of canceling voices of elected officials. Ron Johnson is a sitting senator in the United States of America. Bring him on and talk to him. Hell, bring on Obama and drink beer or smoke weed and talk. We need this. We need to talk to each other. I'm not afraid of covid at this point, I'm afraid of having a solid country left.
It really is one of the oldest tricks in the book—the powers that be, get YOU to do their dirty work for them, either by buying you off (Young and Blackstone) or scaring you...fear is at play in both methods, fear of losing what you have or fear of being on the bottom of the dog pile. Young is a disgrace.
Not surprised musicians stand with terror cults like Hamas and support misogynistic fascists men from the middle east. It is nothing more than altruism on steroids to cleanse their sins and decadent behavior from the past springled with the usual bit of antisemitism. Young and Mitchel are both brilliant, but they are Canadians and just can't help themselves. Joni who still apparently smokes three packs of cigarettes a day and lives in laurel canyon the hub of virtue along with other minstrel singers like Mr. Young whom I'm sure never bedded an underage groupie in the 70's have nothing better to do then pontificate along with all those other bong smoking opiniated almost octogenarian great white northerners. They are the last bunch that should be preaching anything to anyone regarding discussions relative to health. Please go back to Canada where you will be embraced by Canadas first female prime minister Justina. And please take Seth Rogan with you. As for Marshall Matters, you should have stood your ground. You make millions playing a freaking banjo. Not sure what message you thought you were sending.
There’s a difference between promoting a false narrative during a global health crisis vs stating unpopular political views, Soviet censorship or blaming a politician for committing a racist act during college. Platforms such as social media or Spotify feature news or opinion pieces that provide the same service as traditional journalism where it’s a common practice to fact check. There are clear facts about the efficacy of vaccines and about Covid. Neil Young, like many of us, might have had friends or family members who had Covid. I believe that he was expressing an act of frustration rather than one of cancellation.
LOL. TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!
Winston and 1984 in the first few words!
https://nakedemperor.substack.com/
This video is crap; two guys are implying Joe Rogan should be taken off of Spotify because he threw around the N-word in the distant past. Joe may be an insensitive good old boy, but he sure as hell ain’t a racist!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YtFRGofkWY
Been a huge fan of Mumford and Sons for years. It was playing non stop when I laid flooring in my old house - redoing it to get ready for the birth of my daughter. We made her room up real nice, and your great music played daily while I worked. I had no idea you wrote on this substack, and only realized it halfway through this piece. You are as talented a writer as you are musician. Brilliantly written, and nail on the head. The issue is the quietness of those who agree with more speech, less censorship. I think these people are in the vast majority, numerically and only need to spine up to curb this totalitarian mob nonsense.
I wonder if he regrets taking that $100M. Probably not, but man, if he were self-publishing his podcast, he could keep all the episodes up and interview whoever he wants. More money, more problems, though I could probably put up with some grief for that kind of money.
The more and more I listen to Joe Rogan (which I never had before knowing about the Dr. Malone show, thank you Streisand Effect!), the more I feel like he is the everyman's Charlie Rose. I really do believe if the critics of Joe Rogan actually listened to a sample of his shows, they would see the value of his exploration.
I tried to find an actual transcript of a bit of the #1769 Jordan Peterson (Jan 25, 2022) show but I couldn't, so I just typed out a bit of something I wanted to share.
This is from about 1 hour 32 minutes into the conversation.
Jordan Peterson: "You know this, Joe, the fact that you're so popular, this is a mystery. And I've been tweeting about it while people have been attacking you. Why is Joe Rogan so popular? He's a gateway to the alt-right. No, he's the psychedelic hippy. No, that's a stupid hypothesis. That's wrong. Well, he's a propagandist. No. Joe is an honest man. And he actually says what he believes to be true. But let's think about that. 'Cause that isn't exactly what you do. You follow the conversation and you listen and you spontaneously manifest words that indicate your reaction. And it isn't the words themselves, exactly that are true, because you might be wrong and you might be right, right? I mean what do you know, what do I know? We're going to be wrong a bunch during this conversation. But, the process that we're manifesting in the discovery of truth and untruth. That's not wrong. That's exactly right. And you know when we're doing it because it's so engaging.
...
The mutual exploration of structures of truth through dialogue in good faith. In good faith. And then what does in good faith mean. First of all, I can trust you, and that has been my experience. You've never played games with me. We disagree, that's fun. I can trust you. You don't play games. I can talk to you. You listen and you say things. We have a conversation, it's real, it's fun. We fall into it. Time flies by, right? That's a cool thing. That the burden of temporal mortality lifts in the face of genuine dialogue."
Loved that podcast, all 4 hours of it, and I’m off to see that man talk live soon.
Dear Winston,
You, seemingly so to me, suggested that "Perhaps a healthier response from Neil Young would’ve been for him..."
In keeping with the suggestion that to rebut poor argumentation is the valuable way to refine a response, may I respond that you conflate things here.
You begin with, "The Ministry of Culture had decreed ...", rightly (in my opinion) critiquing laws against free speech.
How, did you then conflate this outlawing of speech in the Soviet Union with "Moral majoritarians on the Christian Right and conservative organizations like the P on the Christian Right and conservative organizations like the Parents Music Resource Center worked hard through the 1980s and ‘90s to censor aarents Music Resource Center worked hard through the 1980s and ‘90s to censor artists." How did this group (the Moral majoritarians) attempt to do equally.
You seemingly go from bad to worse by suggesting that Ice-T had somehow rebutted Tipper Gore with,
“Yo, Tip, what’s the matter? You aint gettin’ no dick?"
There is such a thing as logic you know Winston. And I think that logic dictates that the cogency of Tipper's case has nothing to do with how much dick she is getting.
Let me adopt some of Ice-T's lyrics for you in this manner
"Say what we want, Winston - your argument is weak”
I assume that you'd agree that if Neil Young's complaint or his request to Spotify had been packaged as a song (ie. art) it would be no more cogent as an argument. Likewise, Ice-T's case (and yours by extension in using it) that what Tip attempting to censor is fallacious.
Oh my, all the crocodile tears over free speech and the comparisons to the Soviet Union some 50 years ago. The author assures us that he is not saying America in 2022 is just as repressive as the Soviet Union used to be but he starts out reminding us of how artists suffered under Soviet repression and then goes on to lament the fate of poor Joe Rogan who is being "persecuted" by some aging folk musicians. Joe Rogan is not an artist. He is a brutal businessman who figured out that if 1000 experts calmly explain something and one crackpot contrarian screams the opposite from the rooftops, the mouse clicks, downloads and profits will increase if he invites the contrarian on his "Joe Rogan Experience". Neil Young, Joni Mitchel et. al. are not proposing sending Rogan to the Gulag but are just making some noise that will hopefully put a dent in the popularity of this know-nothing loudmouth who got rich beyond his wildest dreams and now wields his popularity like a toddler who found his dad's loaded gun. In the unlikely case that Neil Young succeeds, Rogan may have to go back to commenting on Mixed Martial Arts fights - his real passion, according to his own website - and make only 10 million a year instead of 100 million. Poor baby. This is not about free speech - the media landscape has changed dramatically over the last 2 decades, let alone since the days of Soviet repression - this is just about unfettered capitalism in an age when outrage sells, and truth and decency does not. I have listened to many of Rogan's podcasts and granted, he is a skilled interviewer and his phony modesty ("I am just a dumbass") and his "average Joe" demeanor are at times endearing but he is nothing more than the typical arrogant "nouveau rich" who is full of himself and his unexpected wealth. This is the man who invited conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to his show and calmed him down after the latter went on his signature rants saying, "I love you Alex". What about the bereaved parents of the murdered Sandy Hook children who endured harassment and death threats thanks to Jones' claims that they were just actors in some conspiracy, their children not really murdered? Why would Rogan care? He is a businessman and having a well-known scumbag like Jones on his podcast produces results: clicks, downloads and profits. Free speech will not suffer a bit if characters like Rogan are pushed off the pedestal of a "truth teller". If his audience shrinks and Spotify finds Rogan no longer profitable and dumps him, what exactly would we lose? Oh yeah, I remember, something like Soviet Union taking over again. Get real, live in the present, not the past.
Thank you for your essay that is so spot on. I too am waiting to have other power people to step up voicing the wrong that is happening. I’m not claiming to be a history buff, but everything that is happening is in step with pre WWII Germany. It is scary as to how precise the steps in the control of peoples freedom and rights are slowly being taken away and given to the wrong people. Sexualizing of children has become the big theme of today’s culture behavior in Hollywood and politics. Why are we accepting this? There aren’t disagreements anymore, it’s either agreeing with or you are attached by those that you don’t agree with. Threatening, blackmail, and violence is the big picture now. The cover up of entertainment and politic criminalization has been the norm and we are expected to accept it and embrace it as the news media capitalizes on it. Why are we accepting this? Thank you Spotify for not bending to threats and blackmail by those who once stood with and for the people. Thank you Joe Rogan for bringing to light the people behind the truth of their work. Thank you Winston Marshall for your essay. Bullying is a powerful tool for those in the wrong and courage is a powerful tool for those in the right.
Wow, what an amazing article! You should write more :-)