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Jul 14, 2022Liked by Marty Makary M.D., M.P.H.

Anybody who knows real scientists know that they love one thing: arguing. Nobody goes into the sciences because all of the questions have been answered; in fact it's just the opposite. If all the great mysteries had been solved there would be no physicists, only engineers.

The problem is that this simple truth cannot be reconciled with slogans such as "Trust the science". If there is vigorous debate on a subject then whose science is the lay person supposed to trust? "Trust the science" is in fact the least scientific motto one can think of since it is a basically a naked appeal to authority rather than, say, a careful examination of the evidence. It's a sad comment on not only the scientific community but American society at large when the powers that be view smothering dissent as a central requirement for maintaining authority.

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Jul 14, 2022Liked by Marty Makary M.D., M.P.H.

Exactly right, science isn't some oracle you consult to get the 'correct' answer. Science is nothing but the process of hypothesis, testing, challenging, re-testing, debate, re-testing etc until the best answers rise to the top. Once you use scientific institutions for political purposes, you're no longer practicing science.

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Ah, but you're forgetting that Dr. "follow the science" Fauci assured us that oracles do exist when he claimed, "I am Science".

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More like follow the M O N E Y

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Snake oil salesman never go out of style do they?

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Jul 16, 2022·edited Jul 22, 2022

Makary is almost 100% right here and also back in his Jan. article. But it's worse than he states. There are studies and narratives being posted by CDC that purposefully deceive people they way they are written. CDC puts up data on its website with no peer review and makes unfounded claims, then creates summary recommendation pages that create terrible falsehoods but serve as references for reporters and others to spread the falsehood.

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For example, they have a statement on the website that kids are MORE likely to get the disease than adults. One the same page where the data clearly show the falsehood of the statement. Crazy, crazy stuff. There are too many to list, but other lowlights were highlighting the "Cape Cod" post-vaccination spread without noting that the outbreak was in a group of people likely to be having intimate contact rather than simply breathing the same air, and the horribly tortured treatment of the wording of a study on "COVID-like" disease in hospitals to make it look like natural immunity acquired from infection was inferior to vaccination, something that is quite impossible by first principles.

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Also, Michael Lewis wrote well about the CDC's politicization in his book "The Premonition" which is about the pandemic. Worth a read.

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Dr Fauci, Rachael L. Levine, and up the ladder to Biden and his puppet masters, which I assume are the Davos crowd, have very obviously taken effective control America. In every important walk of life we are under their tyrannical control. If Americans do not find a way to resist effectively, and so far there are few signs of hope, then we are in a totalitarian state. The mid-terms are everything. It is hard to assume the tyrants will not cheat to retain power. Then what do independent-minded people do? I hope UATX and substack are a start, but I for one, count on a GOP with a steel backbone that will not sit still as we lose our freedoms.

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Barry, I completely agree with your comment. I too will fight smartly to the bitter end, but I suppose I write with such urgency because of what I have learned over the last 20+ years. I have seen this coming for a very long time. I spent a lot of time on university campuses, and with brilliant thoughtful professors, even some time with Harvard's Steven Pinker (I was very disappointed he dropped out of UATX's advisory board). I stopped some related philanthropy because I realized by 2012 that the universities could not be reformed as presently constituted. As an entrepreneur I cut to the chase and try to write directly. Many people still do not realize how extreme our situation is. I do write for them, altho maybe it backfires as many people simply cannot accept what it means for all of these totalitarian things to be happening.

I encourage everyone to work for their local & federal GOP politicians. But it is clear Biden is trying to federalize elections and cheat by all means necessary. But I will never give up!

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True but if you looked at Brady's eyes at the half of that Super Bowl you saw that he was not beaten.

But we are led by a senile imbecile who is beaten or has sold us out.

We need to take back our government.

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I think he actually brayed "oi yam soi-yence!"

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Very bad person our dr “F”!

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Which statement should have made every real scientist rise up in rebellion to remove him from office.

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I always suggest people listen to "Best Science Medicine Podcast" out of Canada. There, Canadian physicians discuss best practices in medicine. The thing I have learned is that not all evidence is created equal and that what was the "gold standard" can turn out to be the dross standard. Science is real, but especially medical science, should be humble.

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Slaw's response is one of the best responses I have read on this BBS.

The left says the global warming science, BS, is settled and call anyone who disagrees with them a "denier". This is designed just like the Woke movement to shut down debate. The left uses and loves this tactic and anyone who believe their hogwash should be treated with derision and contempt.

Galileo was a denier and look what they did to him.

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After a lot of reading on all sides, I personally judge that global climate change is real and a threat. You may come to a different judgement call.

But that does not mean that I agree with the tactics of all the activists on that side.

Saying "the science is settled" is unscientific and I dislike that tactic. Of course it needs to continue to be researched and be open to evidence based revisions.

What should be said is "the science is well enough understood for policy making".

A tremendous portion of policy making is made without 99.999% certainty; pragmatically we sometimes need to act before "there is no possible doubt", when the evidence is strong enough to predict that not acting is likely to cause more harm than acting.

So no, the science is not "settled" but in my view it is strongly enough supported to take action from a pragmatic risk management analysis - as the US Military began doing some while back. While the research continues uninhibited by political blinders (on any side). If the evidence shifts the other way, we should adjust, But for now, we need to be heading of a very likely (but not 100.00% certain) negative outcome.

I will note that some of the activists on the other side deploy unreasonable tactics too. Like repeating arguments which have been pretty thoroughly addressed.

Basically, today, I think of activist as most often people who are so polarized they cannot evaluate (and do not care to evaluate) information remotely objectively. It's a short way (in most cases) of announcing somebody is captured by confirmation bias. And this part of human nature affects all sides.

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Harvard, hardly a bastion of conservative ideas printed this:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2003/04/global-warming-is-not-so-hot-2/

I admit one article does not an argument make. It's getting late and tomorrow will give you the reasons I believe GW is a hoax.

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I think it was Mike Rowe that said something like “as soon as you put the word ‘the’ in ‘trust the science,’ you’re suggesting that there’s a single correct science and all other science should be ignored…” I probably butchered the quote but the message was simple and accurate when I heard it.

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Yes, the "the" in that phrase makes me cringe.

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Championing of trust in authority & smothering dissent has always been in the tyrants playbook. Civilization after civilization. Tactics always boringly the same. Without true awareness of history we are doomed.

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Yes, like in communist countries, we have also had policies via “campaigns“ and “slogans“ instead of the normal rulemaking process, or scientific method. 

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Sure, but it is much more than just seeing it in communist countries. These tactics have been used in every nation & culture existent. The economic system is not the determiner.

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True, authoritarians exist on both sides of the political aisle. But now that the Ed Meese generation is dead and buried... most of the authoritarian impulse is from your friendly neighborhood lefties.

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Seems to be but cannot escape the feeling we are being played from both sides. It does appear the conservatives have the clear advantage on being effective constitutionalists. It is probably hidden somewhere in the fact that the conservatives are all lumped together. I believe they are quite diverse, reflect our diversity of population. Things like the rank opportunists on Fox News and on left-wing propaganda mainstream news outlets don’t help.

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Coud you elaborate on your final paragraph?

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This is an exaggeration. Organizational cultures that stifle dissent are common, in corporations as well as in agencies. It arises not from tyranny but from more mundane sources like a very human tendency toward groupthink, and the predominance of a managerial mindset over independent professional judgment.

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It’s true all that occurs in the corporate world as I have experienced it in my career. The big difference, however, is the way those who disagree today are ostracized, shamed, suspended and fired, and all done publicly. No comparison in my view.

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Exactly. There's more going on, especially with "equity" being drug into every aspect now.

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Yes, I agree.

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For the apparatchiks running most government agencies, the government is their temple and deceit, control and retribution are the tenets of their religion.

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Yeah it's unbelievable. 'Follow the science'. Science means dissent. It's only any good because it answers criticisms and allows them, otherwise it isn't science at all. I used to laugh when I saw those BLM signs in yards, now I just think those people are assholes. They're modern day crusaders, cult members. It's an unthinking acceptance of a motto that makes no sense, that is claiming things that nobody disputes.

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Oh yes, those BLM signs that are STILL up in my neighborhood. Every time I see the line that “science is real” I gag. It’s so insufferable and condescending. I saw the grift on day one of this cultural psychosis. I felt I was in a living nightmare and everyone outside my immediate family had been hypnotized.

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Thank you. You nailed it. Whenever I see the signs, hear the words, I ask, "Are they working a grift?". Unfortunately, ninety percent of the time the answer is yes. Don't listen to what they say, don't look at their actions, it is the results of their actions they want.

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The whole “science is real” is ironically meant to silence debate - especially since “Fauci IS the science” according to his ego. These are jedi mind tricks that unfortunately do work on a high # of people in our society who are not critical thinkers.

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I don't see it as "grift", more as hubris - a smug certainty that everything they believe is backed up by science (once we dismiss any science which does not agree). Grift usually involves some payoff other than reinforced righteousness.

One of the best is combining a professed respect for science, along with "No GMOs". Government scientists are incorruptible when the agree with our biases, but dismissible as hacks when they do not.

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The cardinal sin of the neo-progressive left in recent times (speaking as a long time liberal) is hubris. They are completely convinced that their understanding of society and how to improve it is unquestionably right, and that they have the moral high ground. If they could admit to some uncertainty, or that they might be wrong sometimes, then they would be open to change, debate, compromise, reasoning. And just "reality feedback" when a proposed solution isn't working.

But if you know in your bones that you are completely right and far more moral than the other side, you don't need to engage honestly. Your only need is to coerce or manipulate the dumb/evil dissenters to follow your plan.

This is the kind of mindset that leads to "vanguard parties" who take power in the name of the people, no matter how many of those people object. "We are on your side but our knowledge and purity are superior to yours, so your dissent will not be allowed as we rule in your name". It's certainly not that far gone yet, but I believe I hear the underpinnings being laid.

Of course this smug self-righteousness is not unique to 21s century American neo-progressives, but they have an especially pronounced case of it today.

So even tho as a liberal I agree with some of the underlying values people are expressing with those signs, those values (and some others) get expressed through a, as you say, "insufferable and condescending" framing. I've moved far enough from the cult to see that.

Today, I feel more in common with the center right than the far left. I'm not going to toggle to the opposite extreme, I'm looking for a thoughtful evidence-based pragmatic middle. I would defect to a party espousing those values in a heartbeat.

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Yes, the BLM banners on people’s Facebook pages two years or more ago we’re dead giveaways. Sad.

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Yeah it's like who do they think doesn't believe science is real? It's just a sign of how warped their perception is of many fellow Americans.

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Of course they blame us and undervalue our opinions. Makes these hopeless autocrats, lost to the madness of toxic narcissism, feel good about their terminally insecure selves. Toxic narcissists always blame everyone else for their own failures.

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Oh yeah they definitely do that. And to me it's a bad sign when you see so many people loudly proclaiming things like that that nobody disputes. I don't think it's really about saying black lives matter, they know everyone agrees with that. It's actually about implicitly saying you're a racist.

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Your last line? Nailed it!

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Can I offer a counterpoint? I do understand your point, but at the individual level (versus the movement leader level), a lot of the pro-BLM folks are just trying to say "we used to ignore Black concerns which we did not directly experience, but now we are paying attention and care". I say that from talking with progressive friends. That's not a bad sentiment, *in itself*.

However, the organization BLM was falsely canonized, and the larger movement has often been misguided and even counterproductive. I can critique the movement, the tactics, the framing, the likely outcome, and the organization - without imputing negative intentions to most of the ordinary people caught up in it.

As an example, polls show that most liberal/progressive believe that the number of unarmed Black people shot by police is 10 to 1000 times higher than it actually is. That's the impression they have gotten from their emotion-centric sources. If I believed there were 25,000 unarmed Black people being killed every year in the US, I too would have a different attitude.

I believe that to make the world better we need a positive motivation AND a solid intellectual grasp - both heart and head. Alas, too many of the people I personally know on the left have only the former. The road to hell and all that. I do not judge them as ill intentioned people, more as ill informed.

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Excellent comment. Add to it the amount of control the government exerted over being vaccinated or not, and digging down into the massive profits pharma will pass off to politicians who tow the line.

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The authorities aren’t interested in the science. They are interested in maintaining their authority. There were sold a bill of goods by the pharmaceutical industry and they responded

like drug addicts.

What has surprised me is that the medical profession cowered and stopped practicing medicine lest they contract a disease they didn’t understand and at the same time be stripped by their governing authority of their right to practice medicine.

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Many were in the position of losing their jobs and ability to earn a living. Many doctors are currently being threatened in California of losing their license to practice if they speak out about COVID "vaccines."

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They should have collaborated and fought back. I have lost respect for them as a profession. As a lawyer I was always surprised at how easily intimidated doctors were by a threatened lawsuit even though successfully suing doctors in Canada for mere negligence is harder than finding a needle in a haystack.

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It’s not just Covid. Medical school professors are caving in to the gender ideology being foisted upon them by their students when they know it is biologically false!

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Correct. In fact, WOKE has captured all or almost all of academia and the professions. In many places prospective students, those seeking grants and employment, and those seeking higher degrees, must fill out questionaires and submit statements of their positions on CRT, Woke ideology, and the latest mindless insane fad such as transgenderism. If they don't answer correctly they don't get in.

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Jul 14, 2022·edited Jul 14, 2022

I think the worry is the process. It takes very deep pockets to defend yourself even when you are innocent. Most people don't have the resources, and are unwilling to give up their lifestyle and reduce their living conditions. It's easy to "move up" and very hard to "move down."

I am reading Mattias Desmet's book, "The Psychology of Totalitarianism." He says that if the 30-60% of the population that does not agree with the mass formation ideology but stays silent would stand up and speak up they could push back successfully on what this group was foisting on the public. He says only nonviolent means work but it is essential to speak up.

Presently it is the 10-30% of those who never bought into the lie, or the ideology, who are speaking up, such as Dr. Makary and Dr. Hoeg. Many are paying a substantial financial price such as Dr. Ryan Cole and Dr. Kheriaty, who are also in danger of losing their medical licenses in California because they have spoken out.

I have decided to speak up and attempt to refute posters to these threads when they are lying, to the best of my ability, and to do so with as much civility as I can muster. I have no power other than that but what little it is I am going to use it.

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I too am trying to be true to that path.

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That's too of us, at least. We'll form a beachhead of truth and others will join us.

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I 100% agree with you and all of this but I’ll say that Ryan Cole is not the best example of someone who has suffered solely because of his COVID positions. I know him personally, like the guy fine enough, almost ended up working for him at one time so this is nothing personal but pathologists are not in the patient care business. The vast majority of them haven’t touched a patient since their med school days, do not have the tools to conduct patient care (e.g. an EHR. Labs use Laboratory Information Systems), and do not have admitting privileges at hospitals. Prescribing ANY medications and treating patients in any way, irregardless of COVID was way outside his scope of practice as a pathologist. I will also add that the investigation into him would have occurred even prior to 2019. I worked in anatomic pathology for 13 years and would receive the occasional DEA call about pathologists prescribing Z-packs, birth control etc for their kids - any path prescribing anything for any reason is inherently suspect given what they actually do for a living.

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I met him at a day long presentation but I don't know him personally. He said he had lost a LOT of business because many of the contracts he had were canceled. His license is also being threatened in California.

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They are such cowards! Lost all respect for doctors everywhere.

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Not all doctors. I could draw up quite a list of doctors who have stepped up and told the truth. Many of them have been fired from their hospitals, some are under pressure from California's licensing agency and in danger of losing their medical licenses. Nearly all have seen a drop in their incomes. Please don't smear all with the same broad brush. It isn't fair.

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Well, tough. Nothing in this clown world is fair. Not enough have spoken out and this led to medical apartheid in many places. I will never forgive that most shut their mouths when all of Australia was poisoned and when many kids will probably die soon.

This was their expert area and they did nothing. I can't draw lists because I know only cowards. Libtard doctors, which is most of the paediatricians, need to step up or it will never end. I'm very, very angry at the medical profession and I will never, ever forget or forgive.

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Nailed it. I love science *the process* but despise what science *the institution* is becoming, which is a political tool in the pocket of big government ‘progressives’ and their allies. Truth-seeking is smothered by ideology with Covid, climate change, race & gender, and myriad other important subjects where open scientific debate is sorely needed.

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Yes, I was trained in science and love it in it's natural state but in these propaganda enslaved times it becomes a blind alley with no way out of the lies. How our ancestor revolutionary citizen scientists must have felt.

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Slaw's response is one of the best responses I have read on this BBS.

The left says the global warming science, BS, is settled and call anyone who disagrees with them a "denier". This is designed just like the Woke movement to shut down debate. The left uses and loves this tactic and anyone who believe their hogwash should be treated with derision and contempt.

Galileo was a denier and look what they did to him.

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Thank you. I always want to chew glass when someone uses a phrase like "believe in science" ot "trust the science " Science doesn't care what you believe, go ask Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Applying religious language to science (believer, denier, et al) demonstrates a profound ignorance of the scientific method.

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My favorite is when one posts a comment that the Scientism people don't agree with and they respond with "educate yourself" & "do better". I can't stand those condescending remarks

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It's hard to talk to midwit apparatchiks. They're so convinced their smarter than you, even when there's no evidence of that.

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Yup, appeal to authority is the biggest dodge there is.

Covid

Gender

Climate

If people think the first two are ridiculously politicized bullshit, why can’t they see the same is true on the 3rd?

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Definitely. I've had exactly the same thought on exactly the same three topics in the last 2-3 years. Certainly the latter two (some personal knowledge of the third) were carried out in the same way, through activist-driven intimidation and shouting down the knowledgeable and the replacement of decades or centuries of scientific knowledge with authoritarian PC mumbo-jumbo.

Such is the fate always of Official Science, where the pronouncements are about authority, narrative, and CYA, not about knowledge.

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You can be sure that most of the time when you hear "trust the science" or "follow the science," the science will then be ignored and anyone who brings it up will be demonized, smeared, libeled, and isolated. This is the "mental immune system" at work, as stated by Norman Doidge, the doctor who writes for Tablet. It's an ancient mechanism of social psychology that has gone haywire during the current situation, mainly because of social media.

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Marty Makary is a shameless self-promoter. He figured out that one can become rich and famous telling right-wingers not to trust the government. He predicted that Covid would be over by April of 2021 because of herd immunity. He was very very wrong, and experts said he was wrong when he made that prediction.

Right-wing media loves to tell their audience that the government can't be trusted and then right-winger lament the fact that government agencies have lost the trust of the people. You are falling for right-wing propaganda. Btw, the CDC article he links to doesn't say what he says it does.

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Not to sound like a jerk but you just did exactly what progressives and liberal MSM does when it disagrees: attack the individual instead of addressing his/her claims. He’s far from the only physician asking how vaccines for toddlers were given EUA when there’s no emergency and the data doesn’t even show that there’s a benefit. That’s the point of contention, not whether or not we like the individual asking the question.

As for trust in the government, our government literally tried to silence all questions and discussions on Covid. States are trying to pass laws that would allow doctors to lose their licenses if they advise patients anything different than the government’s position on Covid. The FDA wanted to take 75 years to release the Pfizer data that took only 2 years to collect. None of this helps build trust in the system and I respectfully disagree that it’s right-wing to have questions. Anyone that doesn’t question anything is a sheep being led to slaughter. I’d bet that if Trump were in office and federal agencies were silencing anyone that challenged the narrative, the left would be protesting. But now that Team Blue is in office, it’s patriotic to blindly follow and right-wing to have questions. Give me a break.

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I'm raising issues of his credibility and his integrity. He is not an expert in vaccines or masks or virology. He loves going on FOX and promoting his books.

And the government did not "literally try to silence all questions and discussions on Covid." That's an absurd statement. Did FOX News get shot down for promoting Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine? No.

And of course doctors can lose their license for malpractice. That's always been the case.

The CDC is highly respected around the world. Right-wing media seems to exist for the sole purpose of undermining respect for our government institutions. And too many right-wingers fall in line with that propaganda.

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THIS >> “the government did not "literally try to silence all questions and discussions on Covid." Are you for real? They absolutely did just that! They were caught colluding with social media to suppress “vaccine misinformation” and silence debate. The tech companies slapped a warning on every Covid post that did not align with their narrative. Why do you think the scientists at these agencies speak anonymously? Supposed “right wing media” were the only ones supporting free and open debate. Pass me whatever you’re smoking dude…you’re living in an alternate reality.

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Exactly. Facebook banned some of my posts about articles in scientific journals because they disputed the official positions of the authorities such as Fauci.

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Some of us have wondered if MM is real or a bot this thing/person never brings anything of interest to the comment sense page

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Are you talking about people who claimed the vaccine was dangerous or ineffective? Because that IS vaccine misinformation. And just because facebook follows government guidelines does not mean that the government was "censoring Covid information". That's ridiculous.

And scientists at government agencies are not supposed to be contradicting the agency they work for. They have official spokes people that are designated to speak on behalf of the agency. Do you think this is new or unique? All institutions do that, for good reason.

And right-wing media is why so many right-wingers refused to get vaccinated and believed that HCQ and Ivermectin cured Covid and that Covid was no big deal and masks don't work. That is all deadly misinformation.

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Facebook removed posts of mine that were about articles in scientific journals, such as the Nature group.

Government officials do contradict what the staff, such as experienced scientific researchers, have reported.

You are saying something interesting: Black Americans are right-wing!!!! The highest fraction of unvaccinated people in the U.S. are blacks.

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Instead of debating the credibility and integrity of Dr Markary vs CDC, wouldn't it make more sense to discuss the conclusions they reached from the available data?

The issue is whether or not the trial results support the conclusion to recommend vaccine in children. Dr Markary has explained why they do not. Has the CDC or FDA explained why they believe these trial results are sufficient?

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Exactly right HeyJude. Let’s talk about the science rather than all this right wing, Fox News innuendo. I’ve read many COVID studies first hand, especially around masking, and the data could be best summarized by the word inconclusive.

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Inconclusive results, and yet they pursued incredibly destructive policies while claiming "the science" supported them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If as a scientist, your claim is that the entire country must be locked down, people forced to take a vaccine, etc, you must have very strong evidence that:

1) these methods will contain the virus and 2) there is no other alternative. There was never sufficient evidence on either count.

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first of all, the studies on children are small and of very short duration. But more importantly, the risk is much lower many other risks in society that we tolerate. Here's what the Lancet said recently on infection mortality by age: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02867-1/fulltext . The IFR for ages 0-7 is .0023, less than 1/50th of the IFR for seasonal flu. Yet we don't insist on flu vaccines for children. The Great Barrington Declaration, signed by thousands of doctors and medical experts, had it right - focus on the vulnerable. In the case of SARS-2 COVID, that's the elderly and people with underlying health conditions. The average age of COVID fatalities is 81.5 years old. Here's a recent mortality by age range: https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/ .

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California is trying to pass a bill that would make it illegal to for doctors to disagree with the official SCIENCE (SB 1390), the federal government also tried to establish “A ministry of truth” specifically to counteract any dissent about COVID policy.

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The scientific process requires dissent. Any effort to silence dissent is inherently unscientific. If someone is wrong, good, describe the failings of their arguments. They get a counterpoint... You get a counterpoint... And on and on the process goes. Or science dies.

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The left can’t handle any dissent, nor can they articulate intelligent counterpoints. It’s all your a bigot, racist, science denier, etc. It’s amusing and maddening at the same time. I literally feel dumber every time I have to listen to them.

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Yep, and the guy behind it, Gavin Newsom (who happens to be Nancy Pelosi’s nephew) wants to be your next president.

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CA is also trying to pass bill (SB 54) that would make it a "sanctuary state" for trans-ided minors so that people who are not their parents can get children drugged and mutilated:

https://granitegrok.com/blog/2022/06/california-bill-erases-parental-rights-creates-transgender-sanctuary-state

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That guy must be a troll or living under a rock.

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He's a troll, and a paid troll at that.

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There are laws against Medical malpractice. That means the state is telling doctors what they can and cannot do. Why is that alarming to you? And the government SHOULD try to stop the spread of dangerous misinformation. The vaccines are safe and effective. Ivermectin is useless against Covid.

Listen to the experts in their field. Markary is not an expert on vaccines or virology.

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They had no studies giving them information either way on Ivermectin. They essentially operated on a hunch, until they finally admitted that all they HAD was a hunch, and then even Fauci himself called for studies. The fact that they appear to have been correct about Ivermectin is probably luck. And they really only called for their own studies after data from global studies started to lean their way. That's science? "Come on maaaan..."

You say listen to experts in their field, yet I'm guessing you're one of those who mocked Jay Bhattacharya or any of the other experts in their field, working at prestigious universities where they have achieved the highest degrees in their field, who didn't toe the line you wanted them to toe. That isn't science. That isn't helpful. That isn't "combatting dangerous misinformation".

We also don't really have longitudinal studies on the vaccines. It probably will turn out that they were less dangerous for most people than the actual virus, but since your side refuses to stratify the risk of either the virus or the vaccine based on age-risk data, again, I have to say, you're not the ones listening to the experts either. Because there are many experts telling you to do exactly that.

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Experts? At one point the "experts" said Galileo was spreading, to use your term, "dangerous misinformation". Same with Jenner, the inventor of the first vaccine. Science is constantly evolving and our knowledge about how to deal with COVID is evolving as well. There is a big difference between doctors exerting their best efforts on behalf of their patients using different approaches and "medical malpractice". This happens every day. Respirators were "best practice" initially, until we realized they were killing most of the patients who used them. Here's an article about the unintended consequences of government policies around COVID: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4022798 . Should we lock all these experts up? Are you suggesting the Government is always right just because they're... the government?

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I normally don’t engage with Matt but since you’re revering our federal institutions I wanted to share one of their sources refuting one of your points. Official .gov source I assume you’ll trust. You’re correct that malpractice has always been a punishable offense however writing prescriptions off-label has never been defined as malpractice. In fact, the AHRQ specifically states that it is “both legal and safe”. Furthermore, 20% of all prescriptions are in fact off-label. https://www.ahrq.gov/patients-consumers/patient-involvement/off-label-drug-usage.html

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There's lots we don't know. I find it difficult to trust a Fox Entertainment guest, but it doesn't mean he is entirely wrong. I believe many researchers, epidemiologist, nurses, doctors, and other health care workers did the best they could with what they knew at the time; especially in the beginning when we knew very little. Once again, the trouble lies in extremes. This isn't a one sided issue and it should be a public health issue only. We all know this will never happen. The CDC presented information that was contradictary and they failed to remind the public that THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR. They presented information prematurely as well. The average American can only handle so many discrepancies. They may not understand basic concepts that might help them make some little sense of it all and proceed with a healthy curiosity. I'll take the CDC et.al over Joe Rogan, chiropractors, and those selling snake oil.

Given the information I currently have, I would not vaccinate my child.

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Maybe the problem is judging the accuracy of information by the place it is presented. Not a valid way to assess information.

Unfortunately public health officials and media have so completely destroyed their credibility that you are forced to rely on your own judgment.

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In an age where most of us are overwhelmed with information, it is a real problem finding the time and energy to research everything for ourselves. So I sympathize with those wanting a reliable source. They want to get the kid to bed and prepare lunch, not spend hours checking out every assertion.

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Did you read the article?

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good thing you don't have any credibility about which questions can be raised...saves time...

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It works both ways and that's what concerns me during these discussions is that they become tribal, black or white, and sometimes conspiracy ridden. There was misinformation and it seemed dangerous. If a private company regardless of who owns it, wishes to monitor, that's up to them. I am sure this practice went overboard but there again, it's up to me to know FB isn't the place to gather information.

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Preach!

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Pay no attention to this guy...he's a left wing shill...wouldn't surprise me if s/he is actually a Fauci staffer writing under a psuedonym.

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You guys love your conspiracy theories.

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and you love your knee pads...

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Mullen would have made an exemplary Young Pioneer.

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🤣🤣🤣yip that was Hillary and when he came out and stated he had its was Hillary who said it was Monica’s fault

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"Vaccines will prevent you from getting or transmitting the virus."

"Nobody who gets vaccinated will get sick or die."

Seems like there are plenty of wrong predictions to go around on all sides of the debate. And isn't that the point?

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Each vaccine was evaluated for efficacy before release. In no case did the data say that any vaccine was 100% effective, only that it substantially changed the odds. And that it reduced the likelihood of infecting others, not prevented it entirely.

Some of what they originally claimed was revised upon more experience and research.

There is a lot to criticize about the CDC response, we don't have to make things up.

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Those are quotes from Biden.

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I do not take medical advice from politicians speaking off the cuff.

Biden talked about the vaccines many, many times. It is not surprising that one can find excerpts of a few times when he failed to clearly qualify his words and they could be interpreted out of context as a 100% guarantee; he does not speak precisely and makes many gaffes (even when he was younger). I'm hardly going to defend that!

I doubt than anybody heard only this imprecise description of the vaccine efficacy (and nothing else, from him when he got it right or from a pubic health official) and decided on that basis to get the vaccine because it's 100% effective in preventing all infections.

This hyperfocus on a cherry picked gaffe by Biden reminds me of the big deal made in the liberal press regarding Trump tweeting "Covfefe", as if that was important. The actual efficacy of the vaccines was covered extensively by countless sources, and playing "gotcha" is like crowing over typos.

I am NOT saying that the CDC or NIH do not have big problems. Having a large portion of your senior staff resign in protest over interference is a pretty big red flag, to name one thing. But it is not reasonable to pretend that "we the American people were clearly promised 100% efficacy, based on isolated gaffes (failing to insert the proper qualifiers) by a politician.

One flaw on the progressive left is their not uncommon detachment from factual reality. I do not aim to replicate that. I try to be as honest and objective as I can, giving credit where due and blame where due. And I found this article's indictment of the CDC valuable in that regard. But I don't care for gotcha games; as I've said, there are plenty of real problems to criticize without needing to manufacture reasons. That just comes back to bite us, as the left will learn.

Anybody who thought the vaccines were 100% effective (even against the original variant) was seriously out of touch.

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Go back and read those quotes. They guarantee 1) absolute immunity from infection and 2) no side effects/death from either the vaccine or the virus. That is not cherry picking. He deliberately made statements that were completely false (aka lying) and in a particularly egregious and outrageous fashion.

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Dr Fauci is a perfect example, promoting the vaccines as having those protections and getting all of the boosters and then getting COVID.

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Where did you get those quotes from? Who actually said that? The CDC never said that.

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POTUS, Dr Fauci, the heads of CDC, NIH, FDA. Are u kidding me? Why did the majority of vaccinated adults originally get the vaccine? To stop community spread and to prevent infection. Now Dr Fauci just admitted the vaccine doesn’t seem to work well preventing infection and Dr Walensky admitted it doesn’t stop spread. BTW, Alex Berenson was kicked off Twitter for saying this a year ago!

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I recall early on in 2021 the virtue signaling t-shirts worn by 20-somethings proclaiming themselves heroes for getting vaccinated and thereby saving grandma. Not all heroes wear capes.

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"There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die." -- Joe Biden, July 21, 2021, Town Hall, CNN.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/22/remarks-by-president-biden-in-a-cnn-town-hall-with-don-lemon/

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If you're not aware that Biden has said such things several times, then I'm not sure why anyone would take your comments seriously. Here's but one example from Biden: "The unvaccinated. Not the vaccinated, the unvaccinated. That’s the problem. Everybody talks about freedom and not to have a shot or have a test. Well guess what? . . . How about making sure that you’re vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anyone else."

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I’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove.

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That's a nice compilation of sound bites. The Biden ones are embarrassing. He had a hard time reading his teleprompter while squinting into the camera, but I don't hold him accountable for having no idea what he is saying, anymore than any other person well-into their mental decline.

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This comment fails to address a single substantive piece of the article, and the use of "right-wing" as a pejorative undermines any credibility you may have had.

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Why don’t you go get the vaccine every week and inject your six month old infant with the vaccine and then let’s hear you criticize this doctor. By the way, he’s a doctor. Are you? Thank you.

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Mullen may not be a doctor but he is a quack.

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please explain what it does say , Mr zen painter fillofossifer

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The government can't be trusted. Look at the history of the government and their fantastic lies. left wing legacy media are just advocates and not news reporters. The CDC has been caught lying to us all the time. Fauci lied all the time. Get real

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Oh good grief, look who the cat dragged in.

How did you manage to find three fellow travelers?

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Name the four forms rhetoric. I prefer logos. I appreciate the fact that you finally used it in your last sentence. Personally, I think you would find it easier to reach people if you'd left it at that. I think that was the most worthwhile thing you said. However, I'm not sure which CDC link you're talking about, there were several claims made.

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Beautifully expressed.

And my contrarian scientist spouse would indeed attempt to pick apart your assertions! Made me laugh.

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Anyone who says "the science is settled" is not a scientist.

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While this is true, many people seem to give scientists and non-scientists equal weight. For example, if a bunch of scientists say you should vaccinate your kids against measles that carries more weight than Jenny McCarthy or some other celeb saying no.

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Measles vaccines have been around for decades and have been proven effective and safe. COVID vaccines were claimed to be so, but we are still far from having evidence.

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The issue is actually more complicated than that. Any hypothesis is judged based on its supporting evidence. Evaluating that evidence today usually requires a significant amount of specialization and domain knowledge.

In a perfect world everyone would have the expertise required to evaluate the evidence and decide for themselves. That is obviously not the case however so how is the lay public supposed to evaluate any scientific issue? Placing your trust in someone's opinion simply because they are a scientist is just an appeal to authority and it does not guarantee accuracy. Far from it; it is trivial to produce any number of examples from either history or the current day where the experts turned out to be completely wrong.

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If people who don't have time or background to educate themselves on evidence need a shorthand to help sort out fact from fiction, this would be a good place to start: Anyone who labels differing opinions as "misinformation" and tries to get them deplatformed or censored is probably pushing BS.

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I was about to make a similar point - there's no such thing as "the science" - but you've expressed it with admirable clarity! The more interesting story here is what seems to have gone wrong within the CDC as an organization, which seems to have developed a culture that stifles dissent, when dissent is the very essence of scientific inquiry.

I'm thinking of Karl Popper's characterization of science as a process of conjecture and refutation. The best theories we have are just those that have not been refuted yet!

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I wonder if there is a school anywhere in this country that teaches Popper's philosophy.

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‘I don't like any of this, but I just need to make it to my retirement.’ - this should be written on their tombstone

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Indeed--it's sickening. "I don't care if millions of children suffer as a result of my inaction--I've got mine".

I hope they all die of rectal cancer.

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Would it surprise you to know that many physicians feel this way, too? The head of the vaccine office and her deputy resigned. Did it change things? Don't be too hard on these people. It's basically learned helplessness. They have no control over the outcome.

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That’s part of it but there are deeper currents which create a blind allegiance to the big daddy corporate mentality.

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This happens to be government.

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Having grown up with parents in the public sector, it's a phrase I know well.

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Rather on their indictments.

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Easy to say....but yes, and I no longer wonder how Hitler's evil cabal succeeded in pulling normal Germans into complicity. It can still happen.

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The world has become woefully devoid of contrarians. At least those with the balls to speak out. May your father rest in peace.

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As crazy as it might sound, only way out of this mess, would be to completely (for lack of better word) purge many federal agencies of party "apparatchik".

Best example of sucht apparatchik is "venerable" Dr Fauci. At this point who in the right mind is able to have any trust in him or agency run by him?!!? I understand that at the beginning of pandemic we didn't know many facts and mistakes can be forgiven, but what Fauci was doing, was anything but acceptable, for over 2,5 years now we have seen => outright lying to public, denying natural immunity (at point when it was proven), lying in font of congress multiple times, treating US public as idiots and withholding information because public was not "ready", attacking and threatening to anyone who was trying to oppose him, suppressing information with help of big tech....

Results of this mismanagement can be seen all around us, there are people who are literary sitting alone in cars double masked. People with natural immunity were forced to take vaccines that they didn't need. We saw little kids, who were forced to sit outside of schools in cold just to do "social distancing".

Who ever runs next administration (at this point honestly hope its republicans) will first day in office fire Dr Fauci (it is long overdue). This would at least bring back little trust in US government, but the damage is already done, and without "purge" of governmental agencies, majority of population will never trust in anything what agencies say.

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My daughter and I had Covid in May. We went to the pediatrician 3 days after coming out of 10 day quarantine for a well visit. She asked if my daughter (10yo) had been vaxxed. I said no and we just had Covid so it wasn't happening. She was sicker with the flu. She said, "well, we know that a vaccine has better protection than natural immunity." I looked at her in shock and said, "We do? All the data around the world shows the exact opposite." My daughter has nerve issues and her pediatrician is recommending a vaccine that has little to no upside and a chance of making things worse? We are moving doctors because I'll never trust her again. But, I have no idea where we'll go because all the doctors around here are vaccine crazy.

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The same thing happened to me after my kid had Covid and hadn’t gotten the vaccine yet. Was totally shamed by doctor. A close family member is a pediatrician and said that their practice is not pushing the vaccine because they don’t see kids getting really sick with it at all.

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I had the exact same experience. Our pediatrician practice here in Nor Cal are like the PR arm of Pfizer now. Gross. I’ve canceled all my kids annual check ups and doing it elsewhere. Need to find a practice of thinking pediatricians.

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Ask yourself why kids need annual check ups. Seriously. You are the best judge of your kids from year to year. After all the blatant corruption we witness the past two years, why do you need a prescription pusher to assess your child's state of being? Your time would be better spent walking with them in nature.

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Schools require them! It always goes back to government regulation.

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Jul 14, 2022·edited Jul 14, 2022

Same experience for me. In my annual wellness check-up, my SCL Health Dr. encouraged me to get the vax. I looked at him and said that literally everyone I know who is quadruple vaxxed has COVID and that I had it last year so I’m comfortable with my natural immunity. He replied that if “death rates” rise again I should consider it. He then offered me the shingles vax, which I eagerly accepted (no, I’m not anti-vax Dr.). Also, I still have to mask up in their office, which the nurse indicated will likely be permanent. The medical community has lost the plot.

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Funny, while my kids are “fully vaxxed except COVID,” this pandemic experience has made me “Vax hesitant” now. I have so far refused getting the shingles vaccine where a couple of years ago, I would’ve!

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I completely understand. I believe that’s the take-away from this article. Because of COVID and Dr.’s bizarre behavior they have actually destroyed trust by making us wonder what else they have pushed on us because we so blindly trusted their ethics. So far the beginning of the 21st century has been a “shite” show.

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Yeah, the basic thinking now from those of us who are paying attention is, "wow, I now realize that perhaps we have been poisoned since birth and that all the ailments and issues people have today are as direct result from the childhood vaccine schedule". Then when you start down that rabbit hole and come upon people who have been saying that for decades you realize it's true. They have been filling their pipeline of "patient's" since our birth. Not everyone has a bad reaction to VX but some do and some reactions are worse for some people. This is part of the money making scheme of vaccines. Filling the pipeline is term in sales....they use this same tactic in conventional medicine. The book Vaccine Epidemic talks about all this and more. We have been poisoned since birth. I had all my shots as did my husband and son who was born in 1998. We never get the flu vx and didn't get cv shot (not a vx). This entire scam has made me rethink it all and everyone should. Naturopathic Doctor Amandha Vollmer talks about this in her video

https://yummy.doctor/video-list/were-there-ever-any-valid-vaccines-amandha-vollmer/

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I got the shingles shots and am really glad I did. Anyone I know who has gotten the shingles has said it's the worst. On the other hand a friend and I have used tinctures for various things. My friend lives within 10 minutes of our tinctures lady who gave her tinctures and her shingles cleared up in a matter of a couple of weeks.

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You may want to rethink that. My wife had shingles in her 50s. Having witnessed her experience, I'd take COVID over shingles any day.

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I got a rash that my doctor identified as shingles, but it did not behave the way shingles typically behaves. It wasn't a burning or painful rash, just slightly itchy. Subsequent attacks were on different sides of my body, and the affected area was never larger than the palm of my hand.

The only thing about it that suggested it was actually shingles was the fact that it took 2+ weeks to clear up on its own; no salves or creams or essential oils did anything to it.

After the first attack, I pondered getting the shingles vaccination, but when the next one was also atypical, I decided it wasn't worth it.

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Don’t get it it’s expensive and a waste of money plus it’s a money making racket

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Go to FLCCC.net and find yourself a new physician. They'll help you.

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Not all, I promise.

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Robert Kennedy Jr documented Dr. Fauci's career of poor decisions and collusion with Big Pharma over his entire career in his book, "The Real Anthony Fauci." Somehow it took COVID at the end of Fauci's career to bring the spotlight to bear.

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A book that is incredible and sickening at the same time. Fauci and Gates...a match made in hell.

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Is the book worth reading ?

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most certainly...it can be hard though...be prepared to be disgusted frequently...

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Megyn Kelly has a two part podcast interview (#282 and #283) with Robert Kennedy Jr. She holds him to task (she has to or it won't live on YouTube/SiriusXM) but it's very very revealing. I bought his book after that, but haven't gotten to it yet. He's legit!

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100%! It’s very well documented. You’ll be shocked that Fauci still holds this position especially after what he did with AIDS. He’s totally inept and corrupt

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I am reading it now. Mind boggling.

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Yes. Very much so. Not an easy read. Each chapter is more horrifying than one that precedes it.

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Thank you. I have it but have not picked it up yet, looks too daunting.

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"Who ever runs next administration (at this point honestly hope its republicans) will first day in office fire Dr Fauci (it is long overdue)".

The smug Dr. Fauci considers himself a demigod. I think after a thorough congressional hearing lead by Jim Jordan that investigates and catalogues his misdeeds, burning at the stake would be far more appropriate.

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Is Fauci a political appointee? If he is civil service he can't be fired unless a thorough investigation can prove he should be fired. Civil service has many protections.

However, if he is brought up before congressional committees, and investigated by the FBI it might convince him it's time to retire. There is enough in Robert Kennedy Jr.'s book, "The Real Anthony Fauci" to start to know where to look for the skeletons.

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I'm 99.9% certain that after republicans re-take the House, the esteemed Dr. Fauci will find find some excuse to retire. They've promised investigations. I hope Speaker McCarthy doesn't weasel out. If burning at the stake is too extreme a punishment for the torment Fauci has caused, I'll settle for Tar & Feathering.

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I have no faith or confidence in Kevin McCarthy. He's been nearly as useless as Hastert or Paul Ryan.

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Fauci can, and should, be fired. He gave up his civil service protections a long time ago to get in the category of NIH employees who can be compensated at levels above the normal pay scale because of their expertise. It’s how he can earn more than the President.

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Fauci needs to be fired, investigated, and charged with lying to Congress amongst other crimes.

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Fauci will announce his resignation in August/September 2024 citing his age. He's a coward; he won't last into the next admin.

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Pournelle’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy apropos as always:

In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

Same as it ever was.

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Never heard of this "law" before but it is undeniably true.

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“Following the science” is a phrase I could really do with never hearing again, right along with “socially distant” & “new normal.” Ugh.

The US pandemic response was an abomination. The fact that the government is STILL trying to push vaccines on infants is icing on this whole abominable cake.

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Well, it's the same garbage with climate change "It's settled science". Science is never settled.

I'll bet many people now decrying the vax bullshit 1) went right along with it for years 2) Miraculously believe that the same corrupt, self-interested govt/academic scientists are wrong on public health, but right about climate!

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CC and vaccinations are a gaslighting shit show!

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How about “the kids are resilient.” Still makes my blood boil.

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It’s hilarious. Kids are resilient but if you don’t give a “non gender conforming” kid some puberty blockers they will commit suicide tomorrow

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Exactly Remesh!

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So true!

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I can’t hear that anymore either, it’s so cynical…; just like when our politicians (I’m in Switzerland) had to acknowledge the fact that kid’s and teenager’s psychological issues had raised tremendously these past 2 years, they’ve been blaming it on « the covid » (when it’s their dealing with it that is causing distress), and then they make it sound like they’re the goods guys because they’re giving funds for better access to psychological treatments (that wouldn’t have been needed if we hadn’t sacrificed our youth to the « common good »).

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Right? It’s infuriating. Same thing here- Millions of extra dollars in schools to address “learning loss.”

So, let’s see- create a problem, then pass an initiative to hopefully solve the problem you created, then pat yourself on the back for your admirable action!

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Except in SF where they spent 500K of those funds on painting over a mural of George Washington. Have no idea how they weren't called out and audited over that kind of stunt.

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yep. Would also like to toss "science is real". Has a friend use that one on me in 2020, referring to need for school closures, etc. sigh.

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Believe in science, trust the science, follow the science - slogans more indicative of a cult than rational thought.

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The lie of "fifteen days to slow the spread" that turned into years of lockdowns, traumatized kids, destroyed economy, explosion in crime, attacks on rights and damaging shots for kids....while pharmaceuticals and the government gave themselves a flood of taxpayer money that caused record inflation ....more than an abomination, this was the greatest human rights abuse in US history.

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In a nutshell perfectly Anthony.

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Christina don't forget "in these unprecedented times"

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Here’s a made up word that I hope I NEVER hear again (ridiculous statement given it’s usage in the last couple of years). At least no one will ever hear it from my mouth:

MISINFORMATION

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Thank you for this article. Many doctors on the front lines have been gaslighted for saying the same for two years. I spoke up at school board meetings in my area, offered my expertise/experience to the local Board of health, and was called a conspiracy theorist by people in my community. Several hostile people, who were never patients, gave me poor Google reviews to try to harm my business. None of it worked. I won’t shut up and my business is doing well. All glory to God.

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Awesome Dr. Molly! Just awesome!

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funny , none of my Doctors have refused working with me and performing operations when needed over the last 2 years , they did not seem concerned that I did not get the vaccine . there are still a few good Doctors out there

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Clown world. I would have handed the dentist a clown wig and nose. Good grief.

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I'm speechless. How did we all let this happen to us?

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You are a hero. Brava.

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Unfortunately I discovered that professionals in the medical field tend to be some of the most conformist members of the society. They fight for nothing and tend to not question what authorities say. Not sure if hierarchical training makes them this way or the field preselects these personality types. This situation scares me to no tomorrow. MD, MPH here.

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It doesn’t help when states like California propose laws that would enable doctors to lose their medical licenses if they give patients any info/opinion/suggestion about Covid that is different from the State’s official opinion. Not sure if it passed yet but talk about fascism.

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It wasn’t just at the state level. Not only did several credentialing agencies such as AMA take moves to crack down on physicians “peddling disinformation” but they enlisted tech and social media companies to participate. CMS also threatened to pull the contracts of hospitals that were involved or employed physicians who were involved in spreading information or treating patients with therapies that went against the CDC narrative. Hospitals could not operate in the current structure without Medicare funding so they often fired or disciplined any providers who stepped out of line. The hospital I work for did fire and revoke admitting privileges for a couple of ED physicians who prescribed ivermectin, sending the message clearly that there was zero space for dissent. When this is the environment for physicians nationally, the choice for them really comes down to risking their entire career in medicine to stand up for what they believe or put their head down and go along with the game.

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/regulatory/health-workers-licenses-at-risk-if-they-spread-covid-19-vaccine-misinformation

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My MD hubs had to bend the knee and get vaxxed to keep his job and it was not without a fight. Sending study after study to administration regarding natural immunity only to get the stiff arm. One JnJ and that was all he was doing. I was a little miffed at him for giving in, I really wanted to see if they would fire him. He’s the only ENT in town, bills oodles and it took them 5 years to find a part timer to help him. He’s basically irreplaceable. No way in hell would they fire him. He’s not as confrontational as me.

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