After four years in an unsatisfying relationship, this young woman sees ‘singledom as a complete gift,’ and wants to know: Does she have to settle for a guy? Our advice columnist weighs in.
I think in a similar vein to Ms. Shrier’s point. When I was in university (1988) I remember eating lunch with my buddies at the biggest cafeteria on campus (school of 30 + thousand). There was this slightly nerdy professor giving a talk over a speaker on love and relationships, it seemed nobody was paying any attention to him but he just kept on talking. The line I remember to this day is that you love somebody in spite of, not because of. Meaning, that you love them despite those quirks, annoying habits, etc. not because they are beautiful smart etc. yes those things also help but it is the in spite of is what true lasting relationship love was all about. Now I didn’t understand it at the time but it stuck with me and now married 32 years with three adult children I do understand what he was saying and know it to be true. I think that has been the secret/foundation to finding my wife for life, I love her even though her jokes are terribly unfunny, etc. and I am so lucky.
Once again I feel like Shreir is writing to get kudos from TFP's commentariat and not to actually give salient advice.
Jenny just got out of a four-year relationship where she was not in love with the guy.
At age 30, four years can feel like an eternity. We don't know why she stuck with him for so long--maybe she felt it was something she needed to do--have a boyfriend--maybe it was because of inertia--the fear of being single often leaves people in relationships that are long past their due date, maybe he was really into her and she felt guilty about not returning his ardor and felt if she just gave it time. Maybe all of the above.
We will never know.
What we do know, what is practically universal, is that when people get out of a long-term relationship, they go through a period of re-establishing themselves as unique individuals, rather than as part of a couple.
(And sometimes they jump right back into another relationship because they can't stand the idea of being along--these "rebound" relationships rarely end well.)
So Jenny is in that period of euphoria right now. She has created a new life for herself as a single woman and found a degree of happiness.
Which is exactly when, as her mother wisely notes, love will find you--when you are happy with yourself, it's easy for someone else to find you attractive.
When you are sad and desperate you are not going to attract anyone, certainly not the right kind of anyone.
What Shrier misses is that Jenny is still young. She's enjoying her life, one year post-relationship and wondering if she'll ever want to date again.
This is a perfectly normal to her circumstances in the moment to think "I feel so good right now, what if I could freeze this moment in time."
Which is where Shrier falls short--treating this as Jenny's firmly held worldview rather than a loosely held "what if"-- I mean you're not writing to an advice columnist for confirmation if you actually believe the thing you say is true. And Jenny is not spouting some radical feminist "I don't need a man to be fulfilled" agitprop.
And I can all but guarantee that within the next year or two, some combination of these things will happen:
—Most of Jenny's cosmo drinking buddies will start relationships and not be available for her
—The thrill of being on her own will wear off and she'll want to meet someone.
— She's not dumb and realizes that the window for kids is getting closer.
— As such, her standards for a mate will get far more realistic.
So my advice would just be "this is great, sounds like you got over your ex and you're happy. Now is the time to find someone. Be open to it and don't cut yourself off from possibility. Yes, the idea of being in another relatiionship might be scary given your most recent one. But realize that it can be even better and give you more happiness than you have now."
Love this advice apart from one thing: dating apps suck, but sometimes they work. And they worked for me. I tried multiple apps and hated being on one until I met my now husband, and after my first date knew that if I married him I would be happy to admit it started on Bumble. Don't only use apps - go to bars, meet up with friends, do all the other stuff. Hopefully it will come more naturally. But dating apps can and do sometimes work. And it's totally worth it when they do.
There are many ways to have a fulfilling, enriched life, and children too, without a heterosexual marriage. Abigail has found her love and fulfillment in marriage, good for her, but that is not for everyone. And in too many cases, marriage has been an oppressive, and violent institution for women. The myth of "romantic love" needs to be examined for its negative impacts on many women's lives.
A story a Korean man told me years ago (in Korea) comes to mind.
Koreans arranged marriages then. He had been injured, and could not get the wife he most wanted because he was 'defective.' So he had to "settle" for un ugly woman.
His eyes glistened with tears when he added, Now she is the most beautiful woman in the world to me. The selfless way she takes care of our family. All of the memories that we have created together. I can't imagine life without her.
I am the luckiest man in the world, to have been injured, to have been defective...so I wound up with an even better woman than I ever could have chosen.
While reading, my friend Douglas' thesis ran through my head: What killed marriage? Expectations of romance. Douglas has cycled through ten relationships with women who left in search of that special feeling. He did a podcast with his friend Will, who's been dumped (after the fancy steak dinners and all else!) for flimsy reasons including discontent with the way he shoveled snow.
Women who think like this are ruining marriage. In turn they end up childless. And here we are with an endangered birth rate. I should know.
"Settling" is a funny word too, because who in the hell does she think she is? Maybe he's "settling" for her!
OMG, this was me at her age. Happily single and believing all the pablum, especially that love would find ME. My fun, Cosmo-drinking friends all got married, had kids, and moved away. My Mom got older, became ill, and passed. I became increasingly lonely and isolated. I realized in my 40s that the good men got married long ago and they stayed married. I finally met someone (by going to a party I did not want to attend) and got married at 48. His note to me for Valentine's Day read "you are my everything." That is what you want; that trumps everything else. This young woman should race to find it, before it is too late.
My apologies if the link doesn’t work. I always liked this version best because it’s easy to believe they were singing this song to each other.
“Save my love through loneliness
Save my love through sorrow
I gave you my onlyness
Come give me your tomorrow”
Some people just don’t want this type of love. A selfless love that is willing to sacrifice. People that can’t accept those limitations on their “personal freedom” shouldn’t get married and definitely shouldn’t have children.
Humans, let's do away with lines like "You don’t need a man to “complete” you." We can do better. We can do better than evoking sexism, male hierarchy and all that crap while trying to assist someone with their emotional navigation. Being with someone, anyone, even a pet is about companionship. Do you enjoy companionship, do you enjoy sharing experiences, do you enjoy getting to know and understand the quirks and foibles of the other side and adjusting (and yes compromising/sacrificing) for the greater joy of being a unit and building memories as a unit. Of sharing laughs and engaging intellectually and doing things together. Often there are very good reasons for wanting to be alone and that is beyond fine and good. But sometimes there are inadequacies in those who are stubbornly single and as a culture we have swung the other way to now tip-toe and never 'judge'. Yes, there can be wider issues with those who are single (as there are with those who are fearful of ever being alone). Inability to compromise, to pick up on small things, to be generous, to be forgiving, to find the sheer joy of connecting and being intimate with another human. I know many happy singletons but also many living 'lives of quiet desperation' to quote Thoreau. We owe it to the latter to speak our minds, judge/coax or whatever it takes to draw them out of their shell if they need to confess 'I need someone but am too scared to admit it'. We've elevated celibacy and 'Me is enough' to new cultural highs. Thank you Beyoncé (you'd never guess from her songs that she is with anyone) and Miley Cyrus (exhibits every quality of someone who is better off alone). Anyways, here's to human connection and being happy with or without someone and not dragging the sex wars or politics into that decision.
This girl has described my pleasant widowhood. I get to listen to my playlists, eat what I want, have a cute dog and set my own schedule. I don't hate it, I'm happy, but I dream of my life with my husband, and watch rom coms (fast forwarding through the sex bits because I'm not a voyeur. ) There's a great Bobby Darin song that describes, I think, both of our situations.
Oh my! What a selfish girl! She doesn’t seem to be much of a catch. And to spend hours every evening FaceTiming with her mother, at age 30. Something is off there. Both for her and for her mother.
If you married late for love, as I was lucky enough to do, you know Abigail is exactly right.
What a pleasure it is to read her.
I think in a similar vein to Ms. Shrier’s point. When I was in university (1988) I remember eating lunch with my buddies at the biggest cafeteria on campus (school of 30 + thousand). There was this slightly nerdy professor giving a talk over a speaker on love and relationships, it seemed nobody was paying any attention to him but he just kept on talking. The line I remember to this day is that you love somebody in spite of, not because of. Meaning, that you love them despite those quirks, annoying habits, etc. not because they are beautiful smart etc. yes those things also help but it is the in spite of is what true lasting relationship love was all about. Now I didn’t understand it at the time but it stuck with me and now married 32 years with three adult children I do understand what he was saying and know it to be true. I think that has been the secret/foundation to finding my wife for life, I love her even though her jokes are terribly unfunny, etc. and I am so lucky.
Once again I feel like Shreir is writing to get kudos from TFP's commentariat and not to actually give salient advice.
Jenny just got out of a four-year relationship where she was not in love with the guy.
At age 30, four years can feel like an eternity. We don't know why she stuck with him for so long--maybe she felt it was something she needed to do--have a boyfriend--maybe it was because of inertia--the fear of being single often leaves people in relationships that are long past their due date, maybe he was really into her and she felt guilty about not returning his ardor and felt if she just gave it time. Maybe all of the above.
We will never know.
What we do know, what is practically universal, is that when people get out of a long-term relationship, they go through a period of re-establishing themselves as unique individuals, rather than as part of a couple.
(And sometimes they jump right back into another relationship because they can't stand the idea of being along--these "rebound" relationships rarely end well.)
So Jenny is in that period of euphoria right now. She has created a new life for herself as a single woman and found a degree of happiness.
Which is exactly when, as her mother wisely notes, love will find you--when you are happy with yourself, it's easy for someone else to find you attractive.
When you are sad and desperate you are not going to attract anyone, certainly not the right kind of anyone.
What Shrier misses is that Jenny is still young. She's enjoying her life, one year post-relationship and wondering if she'll ever want to date again.
This is a perfectly normal to her circumstances in the moment to think "I feel so good right now, what if I could freeze this moment in time."
Which is where Shrier falls short--treating this as Jenny's firmly held worldview rather than a loosely held "what if"-- I mean you're not writing to an advice columnist for confirmation if you actually believe the thing you say is true. And Jenny is not spouting some radical feminist "I don't need a man to be fulfilled" agitprop.
And I can all but guarantee that within the next year or two, some combination of these things will happen:
—Most of Jenny's cosmo drinking buddies will start relationships and not be available for her
—The thrill of being on her own will wear off and she'll want to meet someone.
— She's not dumb and realizes that the window for kids is getting closer.
— As such, her standards for a mate will get far more realistic.
So my advice would just be "this is great, sounds like you got over your ex and you're happy. Now is the time to find someone. Be open to it and don't cut yourself off from possibility. Yes, the idea of being in another relatiionship might be scary given your most recent one. But realize that it can be even better and give you more happiness than you have now."
Or something to that effect.
Love this advice apart from one thing: dating apps suck, but sometimes they work. And they worked for me. I tried multiple apps and hated being on one until I met my now husband, and after my first date knew that if I married him I would be happy to admit it started on Bumble. Don't only use apps - go to bars, meet up with friends, do all the other stuff. Hopefully it will come more naturally. But dating apps can and do sometimes work. And it's totally worth it when they do.
Not sure this new addition does much for most.
Love is a transient phenomeno
List is a transient phenomenon
Happiness is a transient phenomenon.
Contentment is what the word should be so say many.
If you are content in what you are and what you are doing then stay with that and should list it love comes in the horizon then take it or leave it.
So say I who only has an opinion like the author.
There are many ways to have a fulfilling, enriched life, and children too, without a heterosexual marriage. Abigail has found her love and fulfillment in marriage, good for her, but that is not for everyone. And in too many cases, marriage has been an oppressive, and violent institution for women. The myth of "romantic love" needs to be examined for its negative impacts on many women's lives.
First comment here I’m going to comment on is Bullshit! Not going to read further.
A story a Korean man told me years ago (in Korea) comes to mind.
Koreans arranged marriages then. He had been injured, and could not get the wife he most wanted because he was 'defective.' So he had to "settle" for un ugly woman.
His eyes glistened with tears when he added, Now she is the most beautiful woman in the world to me. The selfless way she takes care of our family. All of the memories that we have created together. I can't imagine life without her.
I am the luckiest man in the world, to have been injured, to have been defective...so I wound up with an even better woman than I ever could have chosen.
Great advice.
While reading, my friend Douglas' thesis ran through my head: What killed marriage? Expectations of romance. Douglas has cycled through ten relationships with women who left in search of that special feeling. He did a podcast with his friend Will, who's been dumped (after the fancy steak dinners and all else!) for flimsy reasons including discontent with the way he shoveled snow.
Women who think like this are ruining marriage. In turn they end up childless. And here we are with an endangered birth rate. I should know.
"Settling" is a funny word too, because who in the hell does she think she is? Maybe he's "settling" for her!
Thank you. after 48yrs it's so wonderful to remember why. I looked at him across the table this morning with a new found appreciation.
OMG, this was me at her age. Happily single and believing all the pablum, especially that love would find ME. My fun, Cosmo-drinking friends all got married, had kids, and moved away. My Mom got older, became ill, and passed. I became increasingly lonely and isolated. I realized in my 40s that the good men got married long ago and they stayed married. I finally met someone (by going to a party I did not want to attend) and got married at 48. His note to me for Valentine's Day read "you are my everything." That is what you want; that trumps everything else. This young woman should race to find it, before it is too late.
“If I were a carpenter”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6NcbHokih8
My apologies if the link doesn’t work. I always liked this version best because it’s easy to believe they were singing this song to each other.
“Save my love through loneliness
Save my love through sorrow
I gave you my onlyness
Come give me your tomorrow”
Some people just don’t want this type of love. A selfless love that is willing to sacrifice. People that can’t accept those limitations on their “personal freedom” shouldn’t get married and definitely shouldn’t have children.
Humans, let's do away with lines like "You don’t need a man to “complete” you." We can do better. We can do better than evoking sexism, male hierarchy and all that crap while trying to assist someone with their emotional navigation. Being with someone, anyone, even a pet is about companionship. Do you enjoy companionship, do you enjoy sharing experiences, do you enjoy getting to know and understand the quirks and foibles of the other side and adjusting (and yes compromising/sacrificing) for the greater joy of being a unit and building memories as a unit. Of sharing laughs and engaging intellectually and doing things together. Often there are very good reasons for wanting to be alone and that is beyond fine and good. But sometimes there are inadequacies in those who are stubbornly single and as a culture we have swung the other way to now tip-toe and never 'judge'. Yes, there can be wider issues with those who are single (as there are with those who are fearful of ever being alone). Inability to compromise, to pick up on small things, to be generous, to be forgiving, to find the sheer joy of connecting and being intimate with another human. I know many happy singletons but also many living 'lives of quiet desperation' to quote Thoreau. We owe it to the latter to speak our minds, judge/coax or whatever it takes to draw them out of their shell if they need to confess 'I need someone but am too scared to admit it'. We've elevated celibacy and 'Me is enough' to new cultural highs. Thank you Beyoncé (you'd never guess from her songs that she is with anyone) and Miley Cyrus (exhibits every quality of someone who is better off alone). Anyways, here's to human connection and being happy with or without someone and not dragging the sex wars or politics into that decision.
This girl has described my pleasant widowhood. I get to listen to my playlists, eat what I want, have a cute dog and set my own schedule. I don't hate it, I'm happy, but I dream of my life with my husband, and watch rom coms (fast forwarding through the sex bits because I'm not a voyeur. ) There's a great Bobby Darin song that describes, I think, both of our situations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0mA94g6nyE
Oh my! What a selfish girl! She doesn’t seem to be much of a catch. And to spend hours every evening FaceTiming with her mother, at age 30. Something is off there. Both for her and for her mother.
There are women and men that don't know or want real love and they should stay single.
Bullseye.