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It’s been a very long time coming. Living in LA for 30 years, a gentile amongst Jews, watching the left move from Social Democrats, to Democratic Socialists, to full-on Marxists, to Bolsheviks, to straight up Fascists. Driven by social and legacy media. All in 25 years. With no questioning. No debate. No one wondering if it was all going a bit too far. Largely with the full support of “Progressive” Jews. Truly frightening.

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I have been posting here for over a year and all along been saying what you are saying today.

The Democrats are now hard core socialists, the party of evil and compro is its inarticulate messenger.

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The Democrats now are not like the Democrats my immigrant blue collar grandparents supported. They now look down on hard-working, modestly-living people with contemptuous sneers like “Learn to code”. NAFTA destroyed our strong, connected working-class communities and only Trump tried to renegotiate NAFTA back in our favor. He tried to fill up our strategic oil supply when prices were low but was prevented. He tried to give Kodak ( a historic company with chemical expertise ) grants to produce generic pharmaceuticals in this country instead of China but was shot down. There’s a lot more going on with Trump supporters than “ racist Nazis”.

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Many things the leftist propaganda spewed on America came from liberalism preached at the universities. And of course the schools wanting to be enlighten followed the same course. Maybe being middle class but having a father who fought in WW2 gave us a foundation many didn’t have. Seeing the horror of the Nazi, gave me a perception to question most everything. I have never been liberal or see anyway these people could think the way they do. But they slowly and deliberately been taught the wrong way. Maybe if photos of slain babies were shown, people ( who believe in life) would be brought back to reality. It’s a shame it takes this kind of butchery to open people eyes. We live in a great country but many want to tear it down. Maybe we can start again.

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Calling them liberals is a misnomer. They aren't liberal nor are they progressive.

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I regress. You are right!

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I just call them Demoncons now, as they have merged with the Neocons to form the party of Evil. ;)

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I was a Democrat first because it was like a religion. The Holy Family was Jesus, Joseph, Mary and JFK. But I grew up having to work and, instead of blaming others, find a way around any obstacle to get where I wanted to be. So I left the Democrat party I don’t want to live in a steel town again with sooty smoke in the air and slag on the icy roads, but I miss the hard-working connectedness I had in a grimy steel town. Perhaps people with only imaginary connections will never be horrified by the pictures of slain babies and raped women, it’s all an illusion to them. They don’t know what true connection feels like.

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Ridiculous. I’m a Democrat, working with Democrats, volunteering for Democrats, and know that the “socialists” you’re talking about are a sensationalist minority who wouldn’t even be in the Party if they had another viable choice. If anything, they’ve been a thorn in the side of the Democrats. case in point, it wasn’t the Dems who supported Bernie Sanders (tho the man had some important points). I’m tired of hearing that we’re extreme. We nominated Joe effing Biden. If you’re a reasonable conservative who objects to being lumped in with reactionary figures on the right like the drunk PDA Boeberts, or the loony-tunes MTG, et al, you can understand. And, get this, even the craziest of the socialists think they’re trying to make our country better. I believe that of the craziest Republicans, too. Enough with this “the other side is out to destroy the county” narrative.

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Oct 23, 2023·edited Oct 26, 2023

Agree with several of your comments. The problem is, the "sensationalist minority" effectively controls of the Democratic Party, and Biden is either okay with this or not strong enough to do anything about it.

It's true that occasionally he'll take a stand, as he's done on Israel (after a couple days of awkwardly finding his bearings), and as he did a couple months ago in intervening when the DC City Council sought to LOWER the mandatory sentence for carjacking. (!)

But other than these instances and a couple others, it's been three years of "progressive" Romper-Room. Within two months of taking office, they totally mangled U.S. energy policy, and then triggered inflation w/ the $2.1 trillion "Rescue" Act which tripled inflation in two months (from 1.7% to 5.4%). Their crime policies are literally insane, we have no meaningful border and no plan for having one, and civil liberties are under one administration-led attack after another, highlighted by its repeated and still ongoing attempts to have the federal government regulate speech. Biden may have been moderate in a former iteration, but he sure hasn't been as president. These are now his policies.

Remember, too, that the administration wanted to spend $6 trillion more, as a "downpayment" toward socialist utopia, and would have borrowed to do so, if the couple adults left in party (Manchin, Sinema) had not said no. But for Manchin, they'd have enacted their entire "progressive" agenda and we'd be done.

Many of us ex-Dems have defected to No Labels. You should check them out.

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…the $2.1 trillion BIPARTISAN “Rescue" Act… Just sayin’

I have some issues with Progressive Dems on crime (among other things). Fwiw, Biden has consistently supported funding the police, along with reform, which I appreciate.

I don’t know what you mean by this “socialist utopia” the Dem Party is after. I think, for example, reducing child poverty, with its host of lifelong ills (see crime), even if it requires direct payments* to parents, is a great and not utopian goal. I think funding R&D and supporting a rapid transition to clean energy so both environmentally critical and the path to owning the economy of the future instead of ceding it to, say, the Chinese, as Republicans in their strange desire to protect a dirty and doomed industry seem bent on doing. I think seeking to expand access to healthcare is a good thing. I look at our economy and say, yeah, inflation isn’t great (thought it’s down to 3.7% for the last year - and its causes are complicated), but everything else looks pretty d—- good (unless war in the Middle East shreds the stock market). I wonder what everyone hates about it.

Where were the Republican grownups when Trump “yugely” inflated the debt with tax cuts for the wealthy that weren't recouped by trickle down economics? The scariness of the national debt is always in the eye of the beholder.

Not sure what civil liberties Dems are taking away. I do know that Republicans support the government forcing women to have babies, tho. Seems like a little civil liberty issue there. And not sure what speech they’re regulating? The whole woke speech thing has gotten pretty crazy tho, I’ll grant you, but it’s more of a social movement than a political one from what I can tell.

Not a fan of No Labels. Yes any NL candidate will just be a spoiler so you better gamble right on which candidate they’ll help elect. And their name sounds like a woke clothing brand.

*direct payments are more efficient - cuts out a ton of bureaucracy - and therefore, imo, should be favored by any conservatives who believe the government should help the poor (all 2 of them - lol), it being both in the interest of the poor and of the health of the country.

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Zarathustra, surely you’re not denying Biden’s hard turn to the left. A slow, confused, hard turn.

Biden tried to establish a “Disinformation Governance Board” i.e. a Ministry of Truth to police language (which would have been run by a grown-up theatre kid).

Biden is a dolt and a demagogue who, to the extent he knows what he’s saying or doing — he’s gone, man! — relentlessly engages in fearmongering partisan and racial rhetoric. So much for “unity.”

How about the laptop? How about “Russiagate”?

Biden is a habitual liar, always has been (you’re aware of his first two presidential campaigns?), constantly repeating provably wrong tall tales to make himself seem more important than he is, or worse, garner sympathy. The worst of these are his false claims that the other driver in the auto accident that killed his first wife and daughter was drunk, and that his son, Beau, died in Iraq. Whereas Trump is a narcissist with a superiority complex, Biden is a narcissist with an inferiority complex.

Biden’s foreign policy has been a disaster, and we’re closer to World War 3 than we’ve been in many years — including the Trump years.

Biden gives fewer press conferences and interviews than any recent POTUS. The interviews he does give are typically with compliant reporters or non-journalists, like celebrities and social media “influencers.” As those influencers would say: Cringe.

While we’re on that subject, the press should be adversarial. Even if you’re a partisan, as an otherwise sensible person you should be concerned that the corporate media not only look the other way on most of Biden’s shortcomings, they’re his cheerleaders.

I think it’s naive to think a mediocre politician who’s lasted as long as Biden hasn’t had some shady dealings. But I don’t have a photo of him being handed a big bag with a dollar sign on it, or a signed confession.

Yes, the republicans should have stayed away from abortion.

None of this is to defend Trump, for whom I did not vote, or the GOP. I’d like to see us break free of the duopoly that’s governing us. Like most people, I dread the thought of a Biden v. Trump rematch. If that happens, I won’t vote.

But Biden is the least popular President since Jimmy Carter, and Trump is ahead of him in the polls, including in key swing states. Ask yourself why that is.

By the way, Biden tripped again, twice, while walking up a short set of stairs last week.

https://youtu.be/FDbKmlBAjrE?feature=shared

The small crowd of supporters applauded the President of the United States for not falling down... If the bar were set any lower, Biden would trip over it.

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I AM denying Biden has taken a hard turn to the left. And I don't see evidence of senility. If you're aware of his political history, as you seem to be, you know he's always been the king of gaffes. His stutter has dogged him since the beginning, but I'll admit it seems to be getting worse and I cringe when he stumbles over his words. It's possible/likely his age has something to do with it - harder to control and compensate - but I don't sense it reflects cognitive impairment. Neither does anyone who knows him. Pretty sure Republicans who've met with him would admit it if they felt they could. And I don't give a hoot if he falls down as long as he doesn't crack his noggin. So what if his body is weaker and less coordinated?

Yeah. I'm sure he does fewer press conferences due to the speech problem. He absolutely does better when he's not out all the time giving people the - false - impression he's losing it. (Did you watch the SOTU, btw? dude's not losing it.) It's not ideal, I'll grant, but I don't think its incumbent upon him to take steps to harm himself politically based on public reaction to his disability.

Still, do I wish we didn't have an octogenarian as our candidate? 100% Do I see another option at this point? No. But I'm extremely comfortable with - proud of, even - the job Biden has done so far. And I'm going on faith it will continue because the Republican alternatives are ghastly.

"I don’t have a photo of him being handed a big bag with a dollar sign on it, or a signed confession." What do you have? Insinuation? Why haven't the Republicans released all this smoking-gun, gangbuster evidence they have? Seriously. It makes zero sense. I actually think Biden is a very principled man. Spit-take all you want, but until you can prove otherwise, I don't know why I should change my opinion. I will say, I think he's become a better person and politician since going through Beau's illness and death. It changed him in some deep way. Humbled him, I think - he used to be pretty cocky - and made him supremely empathetic to others' suffering. But you'll spit-take at that, too.

What's disastrous about Biden's foreign policy?

Lastly, if you read "corporate media" you'd know how angry so many liberal readers are about how they treat Biden - the relentless coverage of his poll numbers, his age, the endless interviews with young people who think he's too moderate and folks like you who think he's too lefty. Remember the NYTimes and Hillary? They did their best to crush her with their constant "butter emails" stories (and, holy crap, Maureen Dowd couldn't possibly have been cattier, like Hillary had done something to her in a past life and she was out for revenge).

Anyhoo. That's the end of my break. Cheers!

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I don't know what planet you are on but last year's inflation rate was 8.2% and this year's in inflation rate is 8.38%.

Trump cut tax rates and tax revenue went up. The same thing happen in JFK's admin. He cut tax rates and revenue went up. The Socialist Party wants to raise taxes. Apparently, history is not a Socs strong suit.

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I dunno, man. This is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics where the inflation rate (% rise in the Consumer Price Index) is calculated:

October 19, 2023

Consumer prices up 3.7 percent from September 2022 to September 2023

Over the year ended September 2023, the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers increased 3.7 percent (not seasonally adjusted). Food prices were 3.7 percent higher than a year ago, and energy prices were 0.5 percent lower. Prices for all items less food and energy rose 4.1 percent over this 12-month period.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2023/consumer-prices-up-3-7-percent-from-september-2022-to-september-2023.htm

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From the Brookings Institution:

-The actual amount of tax revenue collected in FY2018 was significantly lower than the CBO’s projection made in January 2017—before the tax cut was signed into law.

-Given that the economy grew in 2018, and in the absence of another policy that could have caused a large revenue loss, the data imply that the 2017 tax cut substantially reduced revenues.

-The 2017 tax cut reduced the top corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent—a 40 percent reduction. It also reduced income taxes for most Americans

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-the-2017-tax-cut-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-pay-for-itself/

Please share some of your sources as well!

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Actually, the $2.1 trillion so-called "American Rescue Plan" was not bipartisan. Democrats rushed it through in March 2021 -- under the same self-destructive rule suspensions that Dems used for ObamaCare and the GOP used for the Trump tax bill.

I believe you refer to the bipartisan Infrastructure bill that passed in August 2022? That was actually a good bill in that it contained $350 billion in deficit reduction. And it got 17 or 19 GOP votes in the Senate and I can't remember how many more in the House.

More later (watching baseball playoffs!), but rest of my responses are more political/subjective in nature.

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My bad! You are 100% right. Got rescue and infrastructure mixed up. Thanks for the correction. Hope you’re a Diamondbacks fan. :)

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"I have some issues with Progressive Dems ... "

Let's just stop at "issues". As in, "I have some issues".

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ROTFL

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P.S.

Gallup: Neither Party Well-Liked, but GOP Holds Advantage on Issues:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/511979/neither-party-liked-gop-holds-advantage-issues.aspx

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The problem with Democrats is that, while they may have good intentions, their insatiable urge to throw money at every problem is a technique that clearly is not working. [Oh, and by the way, the cost of groceries and gas is up 20%. Not sure where you get that 3.7% figure.]

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Oct 27, 2023·edited Oct 27, 2023

In what way is it not working? The economy is doing extremely well.

I don’t agree that Democrats “throw money” as that implies having no specific target or plan which they definitely do. I think the question of whether the money is actually achieving what it’s supposed to achieve or if said programs are the best way to accomplish said goals is a legitimate one, and is really at the heart of the whole governance project. It’s healthy to have competing ideas. The problem with the Republicans, to use your phrasing, is that they seem to have few governing ideas (at least that they’d dare try to pass as they’re mostly, at the end of the day, unpopular*) so much as antipathy toward and a commitment to blocking all Democratic ideas.

*With the exception of tax cuts (that benefit the wealthy and are not recouped by any trickle-down mechanism as has been well established, and so add to the deficit - which is another legitimate concern) and border/immigration policies, to which I’m not wholly opposed and on which most Dems would probably compromise if only modern Republicans believed in compromise.

Lastly, tho it’s true that there’s a limit to how much the government can spend, I don’t agree that their spending doesn’t work. Eg. The pandemic child tax credit led to a 46% reduction the rate of child poverty. With the end of that credit, which Republicans - and two Democrats - opposed extending, child poverty shot right back up. Either Republicans have policies to reduce child poverty that they’re keeping secret or they don’t believe it should be a collective goal.

Fwiw, the tax credit is the most efficient way to help poor people get a leg up. It requires far less bureaucracy than running all these separate programs. Also, not that everyone cares about this (some people think it SHOULD be very difficult to get government assistance), it’s far less time-consuming for the recipients who usually have little time anyway. Most work full time and often have to bus, with children, to the various agencies, fill out enormous reams of paperwork, provide endless documents, and spend hours on the phone. That’s time they could be going to school, tending to their children, looking for another job, etc.

Again, perhaps this isn’t a goal for some people, or they think there’s a better way to do it, but I see it as a benefit to all of us when fewer American kids are growing up in poverty with all the long-term pathologies it causes, pathologies that come back to us in the form of crime, unemployment, poor health and educational outcomes, all of which are not only awful for those experiencing it, but are a strain on the country as a whole, both socially and economically; it’s cheaper to prevent pathologies than pay for their consequences.

Anyhoo! There you have my twelve cents on that topic! 😃

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Oct 27, 2023·edited Oct 27, 2023

It’s the overall average of all the categories and I got it from the Bureau of Labor Statistics which is the department that calculates the inflation rate. I mean, it’s the official inflation rate. And according the the BLS, energy was down -0.5% over the last 12 months and food at home (vs dining out) was up 2.4%. Food away from home was up 6%

https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category.htm

Here’s the BLS website where you can see all the CPI data. https://www.bls.gov/cpi/

Seems like you have different sources. Can you link to them?

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So, the GOP is not controlled by a “sensationalist minority”? Look at the House of Representatives. And the GOP doesn’t support looney tunes policies? How about denying abortions to women and girls, even in extreme cases? And then trying to outlaw mifepristone. How about nearly all of the Republican caucus saying Trump didn’t try to overcome the U.S. government? TruthCanHurt indeed...

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Did I say the GOP was any better? If I thought that, why would I point Zarathustra to No Labels? Did you read my whole comment? Or just read the top and spit out a typical knee-jerk binary reaction?

The extremist takeover of the GOP preceded the extremist takeover of the Democratic party, which makes the Democrats' mismanagement all the more painful. The Republicans have done everything possible the past 10 years to remain a minority party, to the point that all Dems have to do to control government is act roughly half sane roughly half the time. Still they fail.

Instead we get abolish jails, abolish ICE, a moronic domestic energy policy under which we pay 75% more to consume the same amount of (more pollutive) oil from totalitarian regimes rather than from cleaner domestic producers, the highest inflation since the Carter era, continual and ever-stronger opposition to merit systems, continuous nose-thumbing at the Constitution (see blatantly unconstitutional loan forgiveness and open defiance of Supreme Court orders on rent abatement), you name it.

Today's Democratic leaders haven't just failed to convert what would have been a layup for past generations, when Democrats routinely held 260+ seats in the House and 60% majorities in the Senate. They've somehow managed to out-crazy the GOP (no small feat), which is why Biden is polling so badly and why roughly 23 million people (and growing) have left the party the past decade.

This is why I suggested Zara check out No Labels, and suggest you do the same.

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"I’m tired of hearing that we’re extreme. We nominated Joe effing Biden."

Never mind Biden was obviously feeble even then, at the end of a wholly unremarkable career at the public trough. You nominated him for the sole reason that he could beat Trump. That's extreme.

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Oh...and let's not forget Joe effing Biden became a multimillionaire while spending his entire adult life in politics...how does this happen if a person is a true blue, servant of the people who only wants to do what's right...Joe effing Biden is a public crook who spent the entire campaign in his basement and only won because of the non stop attacks on Trump and everything he did, both right and wrong...and now we have leftists and their elitist allies wildly applauding the murder of babies, teenagers and old people...I'll tell you who is not applauding...conservatives...it's all democrats buddy...you've made your bed...now lie it...g.

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Unfortunately we are all stuck with the disaster. They thought Trump would start WWIII. Hmmm… His policies worked. He was and is too divisive, unfortunately.

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What policies of his worked? I agree he's too divisive. And scary. Eg. just read his recent TS post about Rep. Tom Emmer:

"I have many wonderful friends wanting to be Speaker of the House, and some are truly great Warriors. RINO Tom Emmer, who I do not know well, is not one of them. He never respected the Power of a Trump Endorsement..."

Dude is 100% mafia boss. Plus has weird ideas about capitalization.

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I’m sorry? Electing a candidate you think can win is extreme? When did that happen?

I won’t get into whether Joe’s feeble or this business about feeding at the public trough (is that what our elected representatives do?) or whatever. I dislike Trump and you dislike Biden and never the twain shall meet.

Ah. Just read your second comment. You REALLY dislike Biden. I would love to see actual evidence of him being a crook. Throughout his career, btw, Joe has been one of the least wealthy people serving in Congress. Data from 2018 shows the poorest Senator being worth $10.7 million. Joe currently - after being VP and P - has a net worth of about $11 million, 2/3 of which is in his two homes and resulted from appreciation of those properties. I dunno, man. It just seems like if you’re going to diss Biden as some kind of out of touch multimillionaire crook you ought to first, prove he’s a crook, and second, dismiss everyone else as well.

Whatevs. You and I are clearly examples of people who consume different media, talk to different people, and, thus, live in our own realities. That’s what’s going to kill America, if anything.

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My point is whether Biden was fit to be president or not was beside the point for you and many who voted for him. He's proven to be borderline senile - exactly as he appeared to be when "campaigning, when he bothered to emerge from his basement and speak to dozens of supporters. You foisted this disaster on the country because all you cared about was beating Trump, and that's what I call extreme.

As for your point about living in different realities, I agree. At least we have The Free Press to help with this! Cheers.

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10 mil is nothing to sneeze at. We’re supposed to gather Joes honest and true blue because he’s only worth 11 mill??

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Not what I said. Just saying the outrage is selective:

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Joe Biden had zero business running for Prez. I grew up in DE, with the old school Dems who actually believed in working class and trying to work towards a level playing field- or so I thought as a young person. Looking back- blue collar Joe was never a thing. Lies upon lies upon lies. He was caught lying about his education the first time he ran. DE is the HOME of corporate America , big banks, big pharma. Joe never worked a day in his life outside of politics. At least one can say of Trump want you see is what you get. Joe still wants to act like he’s at one with working class people “if you don’t vote for me you ain’t black” I think I almost choked when I saw that! WTH America? You worry about pronouns and lopping off kids genitals, complaining about how the federal govt is structured and that states, in fact, are powerful in their own right (Roe v. Wade, all education, healthcare, etc. democrats left working Americans a long time ago- where are the vo-tech schools? Why are the cities horrible when it comes to BASIC math and reading skills? Why did the teachers national group REFUSE to tell teachers to GO BACK to WORK after 2020 harming and entire generationa ability to earn a living? Why do democrats feel the need to micromanage everyone’s life while while NO ONE wants to address the real problem- the socioeconomic differences that keep people from moving ahead; from developing generational wealth, by making every single thing hard to do (filing taxes example)? The left or whatever you want to call it would rather babysit everyone and pay you to be poor instead of providing the TOOLS to move forward as a productive member of society. Tools doesn’t mean college for all- why? Why when we don’t have enough skilled blue collar workers? Why do we need a bunch of people with degrees in History or Art or drama or English Lit unless you can make a living with THAT degree. The left has pushed for maintaining an infancy status for adults. Life is hard people- grow up and stop thinking your govt especially the Federal Govt is going to GIVE you anything. All the money is OUR money! The govt makes nothing and barely does the job they are supposed to do- look at the border, and how horrible Obamacare turned out. We have a deficit that is sickening and no one wants to accept that WE ALL need to take note and demand they CUT and pay this massive debt

Off! Not spend more on pie in the sky utopia ideals. It’s like putting in a pool but your roof leaks. Come on, man!

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Very well said. Don't expect an answer.

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You win best comment of the day!!!😀

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Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 25, 2023

“if you don’t vote for me you ain’t black"

The real quote is: “Well, I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black,”

He was responding to the interviewer's implied skepticism that Biden was a better choice for Black people than Trump. Still, it wasn't great and he apologized a couple hours later saying he'd been "much too cavalier."

You can watch the interview here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOIFs_SryHI

"Why did the teachers national group REFUSE to tell teachers to GO BACK to WORK after 2020 harming and entire generationa ability to earn a living?"

In hindsight, we all wish we'd opened in-person school earlier. I don't have any knowledge of discussions at the top, but the 'national group' clearly didn't *prevent* any teachers from going back. The way I saw it, teachers were scared. A lot of people don't seem to remember how scary the pandemic was in the beginning. Even later, when there was evidence coming out that schools weren't a major source of transmission, some unions wanted to err on the side of caution, often for the sake of older employees, employees with co-morbidities, and family members with the same. Perhaps there was too much caution, but at the time I certainly didn't feel like a COVID expert (unlike a gajillion people on the internet who quickly knew more than the scientists, god bless their genius souls), so who was I to judge them for trying to, you know, not die or kill someone?* But my kids were in 5th and 6th grade. I might've been angry if they'd been younger.

*Fwiw, before the vaccines, I was actually part of a super-spreader event that did kill someone.

"Why do democrats feel the need to micromanage everyone’s life while while NO ONE wants to address the real problem- the socioeconomic differences that keep people from moving ahead; from developing generational wealth, by making every single thing hard to do (filing taxes example)?"

I'm not sure you've got the right Party here. Dems are precisely the ones who want to address socioeconomic differences. They support funding public education including vo-tech. They support free community college where people can get certificates in the trades and high-demand healthcare jobs. And it's the Republicans who've consistently cave to the tax-preparation lobby - think TurboTax - to prevent the government from providing free and simple way to file. Not sure if this is due to a knee-jerk respect for big money, or a knee-jerk hatred of all things government. Plus, easy tax filing would make Americans hate the IRS less and that wouldn't help Republicans. The feds are rolling out a free public filing system this year, btw. My hope is that in the near future we can choose to just be billed.

"[the left would rather] pay you to be poor instead of providing the TOOLS to move forward as a productive member of society"

My one comment here is that something like a universal basic income - or just direct cash transfers to qualifying (means-tested) citizens - is, 1) actually very helpful in letting people move forward. I don't know your financial situation, but we are, for example, able to help our son a bit with his rent so he can afford to live where he works and keep his good, full-time job. We see this precisely as helping him move forward. He's gotten promoted and will be in a better position to get a higher-paying job at which point he won't need our help. If you're philosophically opposed to the government helping people without family resources, then that's that. But i don't think you can say that some cash isn't, in fact, super helpful. 2) Cash transfers are, first, more efficient than all the programs with all their various bureaucracies, both for the government and the people benefiting. Second, they hew more closely to the ideals of individual freedom favored by Republicans, respecting that individuals know best what they need. Maybe someone is getting food stamps, say, but what they really need is a car repair. Why have a billion subsidy programs - for heating, electricity, housing, food, etc. - when you can just give folks the money? Anyway, that's my view of things. (See Denver study showing homeless folks receiving cash were more successful in finding housing than those receiving help from social workers and the shelter system - the "homeless industrial complex")

That's all for now! (And Mr. Polecat thought I wouldn't respond. Lol)

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1. Who, if not Dems supported Bernie. He almost dethrones Hillary. All of those votes had to be Dem for it sure wasn't conservatives that voted for the old Commie.

2. isn't Bernie the Senate chairman of Health, Education, Labor, And Pensions?

3. If the Reps gave a NAZI a chairmanship, would you be happy with that? Remember the communists are responsible for about 100 million people murder by the commie governments of Mao's China and Stalin's Russia.

So my question to you is why you are comfortable with a hard core communist as Senate committee chairman in a Dem run senate? BLM and ANTIFA are hard core communists and your party supports them.

There are several socialists in the House.

So my assessment that the Dems are moving toward communism, is spot on because the party not just tolerates it they invite and support it.

Also, these socialist all support the attack by Hamas. Why do the Dems accept these antisemites into the Dem party?

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1) The Democratic Party, rather famously, machinated in favor of Hillary, and many of us still believe Bernie - and Stein - played a part in her loss. Bernie’s not a communist (big or small “c”), he’s a registered Independent and a democratic socialist in ideology, favoring policies like the ones in those cesspool countries Sweden, Norway, and Denmark.

2) He caucuses with the Dems because his policy positions are closer to theirs than to Republicans’ and as a senior senator, he gets committee positions.

3) Of course I wouldn’t be happy with a Nazi. As I said, Bernie isn’t a communist, much less a “hard core communist.”

BLM is not a communist organization whether you agree with them or not. ANTIFA are anarchists not communists, and are not supported by the Democratic Party in any case. (Fwiw, this Democrat went toe-to-toe with some ANTIFA activists who were harassing a Christian proselytizer at a kids’ climate change rally. I’m an atheist, and I put my body between the proselytizer and the mob to protect him and argue for his right to speak. ANTIFA are not loved on my side of the aisle.)

I would wish that we’d all be more nuanced in our reactions to the Israel-Gaza war. That Hamas did something unspeakable and deserves to “pay” (nobody should feel safe committing terror) is unquestionable. What lead to it and how Israel should respond and what role Palestinian civilians play in Hamas’s brutality… these are very difficult questions. The desire to carve out a black and white position is understandable, but it doesn’t reflect reality, and is damaging in the mid- and long term. If the Israel-Palestine problem were black and white it would be over.

So many people are hurting and we are sitting on our sofas looking to feel right.

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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bernie-sanders-in-1972-i-dont-mind-people-calling-me-a-communist

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bernie-sanders-in-1972-i-dont-mind-people-calling-me-a-communist

He says he is a democratic socialist. Please give me on socialist county is or ever has been a democracy. Please don't be like so many left wing ignoramuses and point to the Scandanavian countries as Democratic socialists countries. They are all capitalist countries who tax the day light out of their populace in order to support large social programs.

Oh another thing, all the Scandanavian countries have school vouchers so the parents not the government can choose which school their kids go to. We don't have vouchers in the US because the teachers' unions has a death grip on you precious party. 

Bernie is a communist in sheep clothing and you believe the old fraud. Don't you?

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founding

Spent time in the USSR. Loved it. He is a communist. Period.

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According to Politifact Antifa was:

"Antifa" takes its name from Antifaschistische Aktion — "anti-fascist action," in English — a phrase that the Stalinist Communist Party of Germany adopted in 1932, as the Nazis were gaining power. The party also adopted the logo that is now commonly associated with antifa groups. The symbol combines the red flag of the 1917 Russian Revolution and the black flag of 19th-century anarchists.

BLM not a Marxiast organization:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Don't you left wing fanatics research anything before you open your mouth?

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If you think I’M a left-wing fanatic, no wonder you’re scared. And, for the record, the NYPost does not count as research. Lol

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Then have the DNC stop supporting the DSA.

Or is that just not diverse?

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I wish you were right but unfortunately the Elites that run the Democrats now are actually Socialists but worse still like the Clintons they just seek to line their own pockets in the tradition of Socialism world wide.

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Sorry but the events of Oct 7th when Hamas slaughtered, raped and beheaded peaceful civilians in Israel is the litmus test. According to Gallup, Democrats support Palestianians by 49-38 over Israel. Republicans are 78% with Israel. It's as stark a difference as you will find. Stop trying to push the argument that both sides have "crazies".

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The sensationalist minority crazies *somehow* are running every institution.

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I agree that the fringes have taken over the argument (boring common sense does not a news cycle make) but from a practical perspective, can you really say we are better off now than 2 years ago?

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I agree that Democrats aren't out to destroy the country, but at the moment their policies are inadvertently doing a better job of it.

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How?

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Try this on for size:

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/16/democrats-sympathize-more-palestinians-israelis-gallup

It proves what I have said all along. The Dem/Soc Party is the party of evil. It is now siding with terrorists. No wonder they won't censure the squad. They agree with them.

How can any decent human being vote for the party of terrorism?

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It is not the Dem/Soc Party. It is the Democratic Party. We are not socialists, big ‘S’ or small ‘s.’ Find the place in the platform where it says the Party believes in the social ownership of the means of production.

Re, the war, here are some words from an Israeli peace activist who has been in hiding since his name, number, and address were published online.: “If you dare to show solidarity or compassion towards the Palestinian people in Gaza nowadays you are literally risking yourself in Israel. It’s serious shit,” he said. … “You are talking to a devastated man. I know some of those killed and kidnapped and injured. I have been to funerals and memorial services. I have seen people I know who have lost everything they had. My heart is broken for them.” But, he added, “My heart is broken for the [thousands of] Palestinians in Gaza who have lost their lives and the more than [hundreds of thousands] who have had to leave their homes. For me there is no contradiction.”

I’d rather be this man than the righteous man calling for vengeance no matter the cost to innocents. What Hamas did - and is doing and has done for decades - is morally repugnant in no uncertain terms. They are anti-peace, period. You can believe there needed to be a reprisal of some sort in order to discourage further such attacks while also lamenting that parents are watching their children get crushed and blown up and go hungry and filthy and die without medical care. What kind of person sleeps easily with that? Who is comfortable saying there’s no alternative?

I don’t know what to make of the poll. A lot of young people have been raised in different times. Don’t have the memories of Jewish history the way earlier generations do. Many of them have only known Israel as a wealthy oppressor (as they see it). I think it’s wrong to side with Palestinians. But frankly I think it’s wrong to feel anyone needs to pick a side and stick to it unequivocally.

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If they are not te Socialist Party, how come they tolerate socialist in their party? It is the same as tolerating NAZIs in the party? In the last century the socialist dictatorship slaughter as many as 70 t0 100 million of their own people and they continue to do so till this day.

Bernie IS a communist. more than one person in the congress is a socialist and they are not only tolerated they are no censured for their antisemitic remarks. These socialists belong to DSA. There is no such thing as democratic socialism.

And you make excuses for these thugs and now more Dem/Socs side with a terrorist group Hamas than don't. Where does leave make you?

There are no simple answers to complex problems and the Israeli/Palestinian problem is one of the most complex problems in modern times.

According to Dem/Socs it is alright for Hamas to send thousands of missiles into Israel but not alright for Israel to respond. The Israelis did not start this mass murder of Jews. Hamas did and now more Dem/Socs are standing with a horrible terrorist group Hamas.

Where do you stand.? I know where I stand. I stand against the party of evil and for Israel.

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Where were these glassy eyed, foam at the mouth, brutal, antisemites, when Isis was murdering, torturing and raping the Yazidis and anybody that wasn't Sunni Muslim? The ISIS Muslims raped women, little boys and girls and men. They were equal opportunity rapists.

Where were these noble antisemite demonstrators when the religion of peace in Iran was murdering Bahais by the hundreds? Where were they when the Sudanese Muslims were raiding Christian villages murdering everybody except small children and women who they sold into slavery?

This is selective outrage directed at only one group and that is Jews. I thought left wing loons were Woke and all about DEI. Maybe these rioters need to include DEI counselors in each of their hate chapters all over the US.

I guess Woke and DEI counselors are for everybody except Democrat hate groups.

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UnHeard

How the Democrats betrayed the Jews

The sick thrill of antisemitism has a price

David Mamet

https://unherd.com/2023/10/how-the-democrats-betrayed-the-jews/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

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Steve, thanks. Mamet is beyond a great writer. This article provides the history and the irrefutable facts and analysis

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He's a Hero of mine. Particularly since he came over to The Dark Side, and became a Neo-Nazi Racist, Homophobe, who never uses his turn signal. :-)

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Nobody's perfect ya know

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Except for you & I. (Sigh) If only more people would recognize that.

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Haha! Can someone please tell DM that the Father of Lies Jesus refers to is the devil, not the Jews? And that Jesus was also a Jew? He lost me at the John 8:44 reference.

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Great link thanks Mamet article very good.

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Great article. Thx.

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I think it started when the left full-throatedly endorsed Roe V Wade, and made abortion the single defining issue of the Democrat party. This is the inevitable end for a party committed to and steeped in a culture of death.

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Not only did the Democrats run on the abortion issue --- the DNC made CERTAIN that abortion would be an issue! By deliberate inaction when Democrats had the power to put it to bed, the DNC positioned itself to win the last election. The DNC is run by sociopaths. That is what happens when the political consultants are used to run a political party.

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It takes two to tango. SCOTUS cut the Gordion Knot and put the issue back where it belongs - with the legislatures. Don't like them apples? Put it to the ballot and get the vote out. Y'all keep forgetting the "By The People" bit.

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The Democratic Party has done an incredible job of getting American women completely obsessed with the abortion issue. I have so many friends who absolutely refuse to consider any other issue when deciding who to vote for. A few days ago I called one of my lifelong friends to check on the safety of her 40 relatives currently sequestered in bomb shelters in Jerusalem who I have been horribly worried about. Her father is the descendant of the one single holocaust survivor of the Lithuanian village of her ancestors. She reported that her relatives are currently safe. She changed the subject to complain about how “crazy” our new speaker of the house is. She then revealed that she didn’t know anything at all about the horrifying anti semitic activity going on around the world because “the news is just too upsetting to follow”. She said ... “I could never vote republican because they want to outlaw abortion “. She knows I am a very conservative pro life Catholic. Gently I said “ Deb, out of respect and love for your family, it’s time for you to start getting your head out of the sand. You have got to start facing the reality of the situation we are all in. All of our lives may depend on it”.

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In regard to this just look at what Ohio has on the ballot. Ohio!

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Earlier. A lot earlier. Rosa Parks: Communist; MLK: Communist. The American Left was subverted certainly before WWII, and probably before WWI. Everybody's Left was.

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Well, okay. We could take it back to Lenin... or the post-Enlightenment abandonment of God. I was keeping my focus slightly narrower. ;)

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The last thing the ruling class wants is for there to be any compromise or solution in regards to abortion. They can decide to get an abortion or not regardless of Roe. So whatever the law happens to be is irrelevant to them personally. Much more beneficial for them to keep the people fighting over it forever. Same as guns.

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Ann, you described things perfectly. We are about to find out what the priority is for progressive or liberal jews who have looked the other way for decades. Does their Leftism Trump their Judaism or vice versa.

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Please don’t confuse liberal with progressive. We are not remotely the same thing.

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Shane, the tone deaf Democrats/antisemites strike again:

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/state-department-taps-anti-israel-mayor-to-help-shape-foreign-policy-for-all-americans/

Unbelievable! But typical. As a Jew, look me in the eye and tell me your party is not the Antisemite/Anti-Zionist Party. I find their equivocation disgusting. How come Chuck Shumer and all the Jews in congress aren't standing shoulder to shoulder condemning the attacks by Hamas as a war crime and asking for the censure of AOC, the Squad and every Democrat Muslim who stands with Hamas.

You know they won't do it because power means more to them than ethics and they need all the votes these vitriolic swine will give them. The Reps aren't much different. They are all politicians after all.

I don't know what disgusts me more Hitler's NAZIs or modern day antisemites. They both want the same thing, ethnic cleansing.

Shane, we are living in dangerous times, both of us, you for being a Jew and me for supporting Judaism and Zionism. We will go the gas chamber together.

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You keep saying my party, but it's not my party. I vote for Democrats or Republicans depending on the race, issues, and candidates. I'm a Liberal, not a Democrat or a Republican.

And yes, anyone who stalls for a second to brutally condemn Hamas is a Jew-hater who puts his or her career before his or her soul. Fuck them all. If you stand with Hamas, you stand against my America and me.

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I'm with you except with "Fuck them all". Chuck Shumer isn't my type nor is Tlaib. She's too disgusting.

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Bravo Shane. But from my personal experience , I think you are not typical. And that's a good thing.

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Thanks, Michael, much appreciated. Political labels change so radically and so fast it's impossible to know sometimes where we fall on the scale. I think of myself as a common-sense Liberal who is more politically in tune with common-sense moderates and conservatives then the whacko wings of libs and cons. The chief issue I have with the wingos is that they captured both parties, leaving the rest of us without a real home.

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Shane, I been thinking of what you said about the Dem Party is not your party and I apologize for saying it was. In my mind anyone who says they are a liberal equates as Democrat.

Please accept my apology.

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Of course I do! And not remotely necessary, LP. We all forget stuff about others when thousands of comments are flying back and forth every week here, no problem. Thanks for being so gracious.

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Good to hear. I could care less about labels. I care about positions on policy. Serious question: what is the liberal position regarding our open border and the need for a wall?

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I can only speak for my personal liberalism, which differs from the next guy's. But no one in their right mind wants an open border. If you can't control your immigration, you aren't a sovereign power, you're a dumping ground for other sovereign powers.

It's fine to build a wall in spots where a wall will keep illegals out. But the Trump wall, stretched every mile from sea to sea, would never work because illegals can and do build tunnels and get into our country via the trucking system, far more than they do by crossing non-walled borders. I also estimated that full-scale, full-length wall would have cost more than 10 trillion dollars, and that was before concrete costs skyrocketed. That's money we can spend on other pursuits.

Bottom line, we need to shut down illegal immigration entirely in favor of a vastly improved LEGAL immigration system that lets us bring in the workers we need and screen them for criminal and other records. The system we have now is ridiculous.

Protection of one's own country is a liberal position as much as a conservative, or should be.

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Do you care about any other issues? The border is a huge problem and I, a Democrat, have been critical of our party - not for their border policies so much as for their rhetoric. But I also care about issues the Dems have all over the Republicans, such as a woman’s right not to have the state force her to have a baby, climate change, the green economy, public support for research, poverty relief (show me when poverty’s gone down under Republicans), affordable healthcare…. Obsession with the wall makes you forget these things, or you don’t agree with them in the first place.

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Thanks Zara. The question i posed was related to the issue of open borders . Your comment states you have an issue with rhetoric as opposed to the open border policy. My question was more about the difference between a progressive and a liberal. From your comment may I assume you fit into the former? There are lots and lots and issues. You raised a few but I note you did not mention crime , the failed education industry that seeks to silence parents, free speech rights and many others foreign and domestic. But perhaps we have common ground for I have often on these pages called for a 15 week abortion rule that is what a clear majority of Americans favor. My obsession by the way is seekingTHE TRUTH through open dialogue, a concept that has nothing to do w politicians or parties ( which i did not mention by the way). And I revere THE US Constitution as do most true LIBERALS. Hopefully that includes you which again in what this dizlogue isall about

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But you both vote for Ds right??……so really no difference

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Why wouldn't I if the candidate is better?

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I guess the question is, what is the difference between a Progressive and a Liberal if they vote the same and give us the same outcomes?

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Think it Trumps their Judaism Michael - soft Jews a pathetic lot!

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Oct 23, 2023·edited Oct 23, 2023

Judah has always had its' Eleazars and ben Matityahus. Ever since Mattathias stepped forward and slew the apostate who would sacrifice to Zeus.

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I am Jewish and lived in LA. I blame the corrupt entertainment industry, tech companies, blasé mentality and academia for this barbaric horror. Our synagogues have all closed due to a void in support. Lack of identity and manners, decency has given way to cults of wokeness it's not just with the Jews. The loudest foulest mouth wins in LA. The elected officials and elected governor, have singlehandedly ruined one of the most beautiful states in America.

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I do agree and I was scratching my head after the attach by Hamas wondering how people who say they are for equity could be applauding the murder of Jewish babies, children etc. I am so happy that the tide is turning and that those who were sucked in are finally seeing the truth!!

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founding

I moved to LA in 1993 after college (I don’t live there anymore), and I was very involved in the Jewish community. Even those who were progressive then are feeling all this now. I don’t know anyone across the spectrum who has not been rocked.

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LAPL directors tell staff that they can't suspend patrons if they say they hope staff members get raped or killed. The directors tell staff that they should be empathic to the patrons trauma. The LAPL does not care about the PTSD that their staff is experiencing.

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LAPL directors also says that the right of homeless men to masturbate to violent porn in the library is more important than the rights of the librarians to not have to watch men jacking off or violent snuff porn. Public safety officers (mostly men) and librarians (mostly women) complain about this.

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What's LAPL? Hard to keep up with all the acronyms...

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Los Angeles Public Library

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I cannot imagine why LAPL would even have such a need to empathize. What is the basis for this?

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You do realise those are all the same thing where the rubber meets the road? Look at Sweden. It might have taken a century but social democracy has Sweden on the brink of being a bombed out shithole.

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Right on! Too bad there are only a few of us left.

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Oct 23, 2023·edited Oct 24, 2023

Yes, the political "spectrum" is not a horizontal line, it is a circle in which extreme right and extreme left meet because they are both authoritarian.

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Oct 23, 2023·edited Oct 23, 2023

I have been writing this and saying it outloud for decades.

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I'm not sure I would bet on this "mass awakening" quite yet Bari & Oliver. Once the IDF is done dealing with Hamas, and the body count is tallied, the progressives will double down and say 'look at the brutality of the Israeli government!'. My money is that progressives will take an even more radical position against Israel and the west in general. In no time, academic administrators, corporate media and politicians will begin showing their support for Palestine again, cloaked of course, in their false virtue of justice & peace. If there's one thing that I've learned in the past 5-6 years is that there's almost no changing the minds of social justice/woke progressives.....even in the face of overwhelming evidence. They are simply too captured by the mind virus that is progressivism. Just my 2 cents (which is way over valued).

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i wish you were wrong, but I think you’re spot on.

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you can see it happening already in real time.....

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Saw a report on local news in Denver over the weekend, I think you’re spot on on doubling down as well. “As hateful rhetoric over Israel-Hamas war continues, experts warn hate crimes could rise.”

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I confess to be pretty hard on people like you Penny, but welcome aboard. Just don't replace voting R for voting D. There are very problematic Rs. If you don't know for sure what you are voting for leave that one blank.

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I am NOT a fan of leaving things blank on a ballot. The problem is that you’re simply kicking the can down the road, and by not choosing, you’re letting other voters choose FOR you. Who says that other voters know more about the candidates/issues than you do? In fact, they may know a lot less than you do.

I get that it’s frustrating to have to choose one bad candidate over another, but since SOMEONE will be elected, that is what you must do.

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Ordinarily I would agree with you but during the mid-terms I was a poll-worker and witnessed first hand Vote Blue No Matter Who. It has wreaked havoc at the courthouse. So I think if you are not informed you should not vote.

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Amen!

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I've been reading your comments since the beginning of Common Sense. It's an amazing feeling to see this comment today.

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To both Penny and Lynne, and everyone else who STILL thinks one "side" is politically better than the other- those who are in POLITICAL POWER ON BOTH SIDES are the ISSUE! It's a Top-Down Issue that we ALL must start PROTESTING! VIVEK seems to be the ONLY Candidate who is willing to clean house- he has a STRONG understanding of the Constitution, he knows what he can and cannot do as President. He's super SMART &

SUCCESSFUL. He's YOUNG!!

He's been running rings around ALL the other Candidates on BOTH sides with the amount of PHYSICAL campaigning he's doing on a daily basis. Yes he's running as a Republican but truly wants to support those on that are Liberal and those who are Conservative

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I think he is snake oil myself.

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I have heard this a few times and don’t understand why. What is your evidence?

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Maybe more people will come to their senses. NOT! They are too far gone.

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Penny, sympathising (still) with the Palestinian cause is not at all being soft on Hamas or unsupportive of ordinary Israelis in their agony. Look, this is an argument about real estate: two tribes want it and extremists in both tribes want all of it, and would deny the other tribe any rights or even agency. The only solution is to share equitably, and the only way to do that is for the “reasonable people” (sometimes called the forgotten middle) to sideline or even crush their own extremists. We are nowhere near that end-game; to borrow the Churchillian formulation, we are not even at the beginning. But it has to start with each tribe looking inward at its own extremists and its own myths and delusions. For Israelis, it will require them to go back to re-examine a contradiction in Israel’s very foundation: the overweening influence of the ultra-Orthodox with their messianic visions for “Judea and Samaria” aka, the West Bank.

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Oct 24, 2023·edited Oct 24, 2023

I wish and hope he's wrong, but am going with 60-40 he's not... gotta keep hope alive!

(And seriously, I AM seeing a lot of so-called "progressive" friends and family rethink their commitment to "progressivism" -- as the ill effects pile up from the blue party's policies on crime, education, energy, the economy and the (non)-border. )

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I agree with this pessimistic take.

I think the conversation will now shift to whether Israel actually has a right to exist as a Jewish state, given that it was created from whole cloth, as it were, and that there were Arabs - among others - living there. Never-mind who was there historically or that the Jews were stateless and had suffered the Holocaust.

Never-mind that Israel is the only functioning democracy on the Middle East, and our true ally...

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Nevermind that Jews have been living there for thousands of years, as the archeological record attests.

Jews are the only indigenous people whose land claims are rejected by the Left.

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Oct 23, 2023·edited Oct 23, 2023

And they were targeted, oppressed and murdered by the Philistines and the Assyrians. Enslaved by the Egyptians. I don’t care what people say but the Bible is also an historical document. There were scribes from ancient Israel throughout the New Testament times.

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Why don't the Gazans do land acknowledgement statements before yelling "Death to Jews!" Bad form.

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Exactly Celia! Since antiquity!

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Omg YES Celia!!

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Brilliant, Celia!

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Exactly correct.

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Schrodinger’s race!

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Exactly. Jews are either "white" or "not white," depending on the situation, but the label is NEVER, EVER to the benefit of the Jews.

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The people of the land never go anywhere: someone has to do the graft and stump up to keep the priests, rentiers, and retainers in sherbet. They go along to get along; if you are Galilean, you get the snip so's Jonathon won't crucify you. If you are a rabbi in beseiged Jerusalem you get smuggled out in a coffin and proclaim Vespasian the Messiah so's he won't crucify you; you become a Christian so Theodosius doesn't burn you alive or whetever his thing was. If you are Xtian when Mo rocks up you become Muslim because... well he is a demented kill happy loony leading other demented kill-happy loonies just like all the other demented kill happy loonies that have benighted your neck of the the woods since Epiphanes decided HE was God Incarnate.

They found these 27,000 year old, I think it was, remains in Somerset, "Cheddar Man", as a wheeze they did DNA tests - and found his direct descendants still lived just down the road. They've been loads of different cultures, ethnicities, and relligions but THEY ARE STILL THERE.

Gaza was a Philistine city, the word became Palestine, and THEY ARE STILL THERE.

They've never heard this message for obvious reasons; but we are beholden to ourselves and our children not to take that nonsense up ourselves. Even if we have to look reality in the face and kill 'em all.

Because there is no bloody point if we let nonsense still have reign when that has been done. We are dealing with zombie code to this day 35ish years after the USSR died and and 45ish years after Deng said "Let's get rich instead!". Lets be done with it once and for all, eh?

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Wut

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It is absolutely inane to hear academics refer to Jews as settler colonialists-the Arabs conquered the area in 637 at the end of a sword. The Jews were the native people, and there were other tribes in the area as well. All were subjugated to the Caliph-talk about oppression...

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founding

David, Also, Amnesty International said, Feb. 2022, “Israeli authorities must be held accountable for committing the crime of apartheid against Palestinians! Israel is guilty of a cruel system of domination and crimes against humanity”

How, pray tell, do you argue with that?!

The world has turned upside down!

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How about Hamas being held accountable for suicide bombings, knife attacks, etc.

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founding

Yes! Thank you

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What I find bewildering is that the Allies carpet bombed Dresden, but nobody decried that! Americans bombed Hirsoshima and Nagasaki. Why can't Israel defend itself?

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Besides that, Russia has carpet bombed Aleppo in a true war crime fashion and nobody even remembers that.

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founding

Diana, because during WW 2, we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, so most all Americans were united against a common enemy. We were patriotic then, and even with all our many differences, we stood together for our country.

Your question should be answered with a resounding , “YES, ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF”

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The left today does decry it. I've seen people on Twitter saying we should have never done any of that.

I hardcore disagree and think they're deluded, but they *are* saying it.

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More than that, they are weaving it into childhood propaganda.

Marvel's "Celestials" has a scene of a celestial weeping over the atomic bombs as one of the greatest atrocities in history.

Not the concentration camps, the atomic bombs.

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The Left literally prefers Hirohito's Rape of Nanking and use of Korean "Comfort Women" to the eventuality of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But, #believeallwomen

As if the emperor would have changed his mind without Truman having the balls to drop Oppenheimer's little toy...

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It's always informative to see that when the Left has to choose between feminism and the anti-Western-Civilization narrative, they always choose the anti-Western-Civilization narrative.

It's ironic that, without the Enlightenment, the idea that women ought have the same legal rights as men would NEVER have gained any traction. And yet you see millions of women screaming about how evil Western Civilization is. Useful idiots indeed.

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founding

Truman took no joy in dropping the bomb, but it saved many American lives and ended the war.

Israel should have that same option, but to do the same, I fear it would be WW 3, and Heaven forbid because Biden IS NOT TRUMAN

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founding

Anthony, exactly! Many deny the Holocaust + they ignore the bombing of Pearl Harbor!

“Mean warmongering Americans”

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When he was criticised for ordering the carpet bombing of Japanese cities (and before it surrendered in May 1945, of German cities), Gen. Curtis Le May said, “we didn’t start this, they did, and my job is to kill them and keep killing them until they stop.” It took not one but TWO atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki before Hirohito got the message. Israel didn’t start this....

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Hitler, if you recall, was in the process of taking over the world. For the good of the entire world, he had to be stopped. Moreover, the Geneva Conventions didn’t exist then. We have, thank God, become less tolerant of the sort of warfare waged in the past, hence mass civilian casualties, like in Gaza and Ukraine, even when retaliatory (unlike in Ukraine) draw the public’s attention and horror.

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Wait, you're thanking God that we can no longer wage the kind of war that was necessary to stop Hitler?

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Of the Communists; by the Communists; for the Communists. "Cease quoting the law. We carry weapons." - Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus.

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There are still Arabs living there. The Arabs we now refer to as Palestinians are the descendents left voluntarily when Israel declared itself a nation. They did so expecting an invasion of the newly formed Israel, which occured, and an Arab victory, which did not. Some Arabs were forcefully displaced after two subsequent wars against Israel that Israel likewise won. I do not know the numbers of those displaced but am curious thereto, nor do I know whether they were free to locate within Israel.

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It’s also important to remember that there are Israeli Arabs, Druz and Bedouins that want to live in Israel.

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And have full rights, can run for office, hold judgeships, etc.

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There are Arab Israelis in the diplomatic corps. I met one of them when he was stationed in the U.S.

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There was at least one in the last government.

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There was a survey of Gazans in which 40% said they would prefer to live in the (Jewish) State of Israel than in Gaza under Hamas.

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They could’ve built their own version of Israel with all the money Hamas got.

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And Christians.

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Yes, sadly often forgot. But I read Gatestone Institute and see the persecution of Christian’s in the Middle East. It’s terrible. Ethnic cleansing by Muslims.

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How can people not see it?

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Exactly. Apartheid my arse.

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That shift happened a long time ago. The issue is that framing is even more devastating for the Palestinians. Encouraging Palestinian irridentism and the idea that Israel is just going to pack it all up, solely serves to embolden groups like Hamas and forces Israel to the right and to dig their heels in even further. Palestinian activism has to be the least successful activist movement in history. All it has done is further radicalize the Palestinians, make any form of peace more difficult and materially decrease Palestinian standards of living.

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In truth though I think the jury is out on how successful the activists for the Arabs we now call Palestinians are.

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I don't think so. The radicalization of the Palestinians has pretty neatly coincided with the BDS movement, the Gaza disengagement and the Obama administrations failed Iran policies which resulted in more and more weapons into the hands of Hamas and other Palestinian terror organizations (ex. PIJ). What was a nasty low intensity ethnic conflict has morphed into this horrific bloodletting. And other than their popularity on college campuses, in every other objective metric the situation of the Palestinian people is infinitely worse. The radical left has fed all of the worst tendencies of the Palestinians, and has in essence helped push them into the abyss.

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I think that assessment is spot on and in days of old (when knights were bold) that would have a logical consequence. But we are way down the rabbit hole now so I am not sure who will prevail. IOW nothing would surprise me at this point.

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There was no BDS during the Arab Revolt of 1936. There was no BDS in 636 when what-would-become-Islam roared out of the desert killing Jews from the gitgo. The Muslim default is radicalised; it was radicalised from the start. There is no get-out-of- gaol card in the Qur'an.

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Oh I don't disagree, but let's not pretend that BDS is really anything new. It's just a rebranding of the old Arab boycott. Nothing new under the sun....

https://www.nytimes.com/1945/12/04/archives/arabs-to-boycott-palestinian-goods-vote-action-against-jewish.html

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founding

"Irridentism" is a great word. (No political perspective here, I just sometimes love the way certain words sound/feel.)

:)

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And for many of them, no standard of living...because they are not...living.

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That means nothing to the left.

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I know you are right. “Violence begets violence” or “cycle of violence” are favorite phrases among my progressive friends, Jewish and non-Jewish. None of them have awakened to the decades-long project to fundamentally transform the United States. And those in power will not give up power.

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Obama promised to fundamentally transform America and he succeeded beyond (probably) his wildest dreams- ugh

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He was/is a disgusting asshole.

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And a total fraud as a persona. Manufactured persona for marketing to the silly white and woke children who voted for him because he was seemingly cool.

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And don't forget they voted for him because he is black.

He was in office ten minutes and was given, not earned, the Nobel Peace Prize, all because he was black. It should be called the Nobel ultra left wing prize.

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All because he "identified" as black. His mother was white and he was raised by her and by his white grandparents. Yes, because of the color of his skin, he no doubt has at times been treated as if he were a descendant of slaves, but he was not. That was one reason early on many people who were descendants of slaves questioned whether he was "black enough". Mainstream media never talked about that. And he was raised in Hawaii, one of the safest places in the U.S. to have brown skin.

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The same people will vote for Gavin Newsome because he is pretty and speaks well.

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Newsome couldn't grab his ass with a handful of fishhooks.

He is a typical politician, an oily self-serving liar.

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Justin Trudeau is another pretty-face. No principles. Just wants power.

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Please say it is not so!

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founding

Michael, Nellie, here at TFP, has already told us how much she admires Newsom. It is disturbing she can’t see what terrible shape CA is in under his leadership - or lack thereof!

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founding

Carol, Obama was Black, and that was the overriding factor for many! Never mind his mother & Grandparents (who raised him) were White.

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I think you’re referring to Holly’s post.

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True.

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Note that Obama has been pretty much silent about Hamas and Iran. How will the progressive or liberal jews and non jews react if Michelle runs for president ( as is being rumored recently). The history of the past 10-14 years should not be ignored.

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I am no fan of President Obama, but he did release a pretty unequivocal tweet in support of Israel.

"All Americans should be horrified and outraged by the brazen terrorist attacks on Israel and the slaughter of innocent civilians. We grieve for those who died, pray for the safe return of those who’ve been held hostage, and stand squarely alongside our ally, Israel, as it dismantles Hamas. As we support Israel’s right to defend itself against terror, we must keep striving for a just and lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike."

https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1711487698555322579?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Now this doesn't mean I support a single one of his policies vis a vis Iran, but in this case he did come out with a crystal clear moral standpoint on the current conflict.

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But is this tweet a true representation of his views? He is certainly not above lying for political purposes.

I am more interested in actions than words, and Obama is the one who empowered Iran to support anti-Israel terrorism. Iran's leaders have made it unequivocally clear that the destruction of Israel is their goal.

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founding

You are exactly right, Celia! Obama was a cheerleader for Iran & the Muslims!

Everyone knows where Iran & most Muslims stand because they tell the world, “Death to Israel and Death to America”

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I can't see into his heart, but it's not really questionable that his policies have been a disaster in the region. But let's not let other actors off so easily. How does Bibi's nonsensical decision to allow Qatari cash into Gaza look now? Avigdor Liberman was 100% correct to bring down the government in 2018 over that disgraceful policy.

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I read that too. Back on Oct 9. And with the last sentence as noted by another reader. The Iran deal was his signature foreign policy legacy ( note that legacies are not always positive). The last three years of the Iran moves smack of Obama and of course his guys and gals are the ones in charge. Or should we belirve Biden is putting in 16 hour days and is up to speed on details and nuance as a president should be. And better now than after they pull the trigger on something and the MSM goes into rationalization mode. That's what I would like to hear from Obama and to my knowledge there has been crickets. I gather we are on the same page on that but I know many who have forgotten the history of both Obama and his minions

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founding

Evan, if I’m not mistaken, it took Obama 3 DAYS to make a statement! And like SO MANY Democrats & Politicians, his initial silence before, and pretty much since, isn’t really very comforting.

Plus, Obama is “The Great Messiah” to MSM. Every station would have put him front & center on all their (propaganda!) shows, yet he stays silent except on X?!

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He felt the need to add that last sentence. Entirely inappropriate at that moment. Biden's statement did NOT include that.

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Instant sunshine for Qatar and Gaza; that'd both lasting and just.

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founding

I voted for him twice! I was enamored with his view of a "post-racial society" funny how the web has been scrubbed of any of those references.

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Many were fooled by his pretty words as he campaigned so you were not alone.

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founding

Obama was 1) Black (half of)

2) Pretty Face & Physically fit (no shirt on Hawaii vacation beaches 3) Great Oratory …

A “perfect candidate” for the Democrats.

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founding

That’s ORATOR … by no means oratory! Auto correct 🤬

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Weakness encourages aggression. They'll never figure that one out.

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Yes. Neville Chamberlain, versus Winston Churchill.

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Agree. I also don’t think this will change the way people vote because politics has become a religion of its own in the US.

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Most progressives are certainly not going to change. If anything they will double down (already are). The question is how many of the "liberal defaults" who are not true believers but just play the role of useful idiot as they robo-vote Dem, stick that BLM sign in the yard, change their avatar to a trans rainbow, etc, etc may be shaken up by the world-changing horrors of the past weeks. This is what matters - they are the ones that enable the progressives to engage in their demolition (as well as keep everything stupid about US government policy and regulatory structure cemented in place). There are not enough progressives to achieve their goals. They rely on the lib default enablers and their allies in the media.

I’m pessimistic also but it’s encouraging to see even a few cracks in the liberal facade. OTOH NPR is already in full “equivalency” mode, and the Gaza offensive hasn’t even really started.

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