As Hamas signals openness to President Trump’s peace plan two years into the war in Gaza, the historian joined Bari to discuss the latest developments in U.S. foreign policy.
Bari I know this topic, but to be totally honest I subscribed for one month only (my family is lower middle class and money is tight) because I wanted to try to get this message to you because I thought it was of super importance. You may not. But if we wish to unify the country and avoid civil war I believe this to be necessary.
With your new job at CBS, I think it would be a great idea, and crucially needed, to have a Sunday night CBS News show dedicated to at least an hour long debate on a hot bottom topic. Line up sponsors so you can do it ad free and acknowledge them at the beginning and the end of the show for their sponsorship. Format; find the hottest issues either of that week or ongoing national fracturing, let each side choose their best representative to send and finally a moderator that is totally unbiased and can call balls and strikes. My guess is that maybe partnering with Straight Arrow News as a real time fact checker, like how the Jubilee debates do their post production Straight Arrow News fact checking. But at least an hour uninterrupted. Like Charlie Kirk said, when we stop talking that's when the violence starts. I love The Free Press debates! But post production, unbiased like Straight Arrow News graphic thrown up on the screen is vitally necessary to keep trust on both sides.
Jim, relax a bit. I'm not slinging around terms for no reason. Left and Right are terms to describe political philosophies. And I did not say fascism is the goal of only the right.
You asked a question. You wondered why people (historians?) consider Nazi's were from the Nationalist type movements which are most times considered of the "Right". I tried to answer your question. Just because they had Socialist as part of their name didn't mean they were Socialist of the "Left". Just because a group calls itself Jewish Voice for Peace doesn't mean they are either Jewish or for peace. The Soviets were considered Leftists. Doesn't mean they weren't as nasty as the Nazi's. I'm on your side Jim. And I say a curse on both their houses! Like I said. I just wanted to answer your question
Thank you Bari Weiss and Niall Ferguson. As usual, a deep, broad and nuanced overview about the changed world in which we live.
Particularly stirring for me were Niall’s answers to three of Bari’s questions. First, what keeps him up at night? The unintended consequences of AI, moving away from communicating via writing, a reversion to a citizenry which becomes functionally illiterate and communicates via simplistic memes.
Second, what makes a second Holocaust more possible? Illiteracy coincides with a lack of historical knowledge which makes people vulnerable to manipulation by conspiracy theories. This supports Einat Wilf’s explanation of how since October 7, 2023 the “placard strategy” (https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1BbQfjvCpY/) has shifted. What started as slogans, she says, has grown into a dangerous ideology: the idea that a perfect society is just within reach if one obstacle is removed. She argues that Palestine has been cast as the symbol of global justice, while Israel, Zionism, and the Star of David are portrayed as the barriers — with the implied endgame being the removal or destruction of Jewish people as a group.
Third. What can we do about it? As a writer of sixteen books, Niall recommends reading books on historical events. One example being the diaries of Victor Klemperer in Dresden in the 1930s-1940s, depicting how Nazi ideology impacted ordinary Germans and the small, steady loses of Jewish rights which may be instructive for us today.
I won't believe that there's actually peace until Hamas lays down all its armaments and there is a non-Hamas government in place that won't drop everything and run away at the slightest provocation. Would also like to see Qatar fund rebuilding Gaza - no strings attached; leverage might come in the form of a threat to pull US airbase out of the country if this doesn't happen.
Excellent interview. However, it is a mistake to connect a few data points and then project them out to infinity, as Niall sometimes does.
History is not linear. More importantly, the future is not linear. It isn't even curvilinear. It is more like islands of possibilities - some good, some not so good.
There are shocks, innovations, non sequiturs. miracles, and catastrophic events that change all assumptions in an instant. (e.g. Jesus, the discovery of the Americas, the success of the American Revolution, the 2016 US Presidential election, to name a few)
Here's an island of possibility that could roll our socks down: Russia and Belarus invade Poland, take Warsaw, and slice south to take the eastern third of Romania, including Bucharest. They already have Moldova, and they will have completed a military envelopment of Ukraine, causing it to fall as well. Putin achieves his strategic goals: 1) A strategic land buffer against invasion from the west; 2) Access to the warm water ports of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean; 3) Humiliate NATO and prove it's a sham. (Which it is)
Does the West (i.e. US) have the balls to stop him if Putin threatens nuclear war? That's the kind of scenario that keeps me awake at night, not whether some nimrod in a plaid shirt said something stupid about Churchill.
I am disappointed that the transcript of this significant interview appears not to be accessible except in "real time" captions. As a podcast it characteristically suffers the potentially superficiality which "vocal" versus more formally "verbal" transmission entails.
I think that Niall Ferguson bringing up South Africa's pariah status in the 1970s and 1980 to warn of the possibility of Israel becoming a pariah state, although winning militarily, is somewhat misleading. After all, South Africa was justly ostracized by the democracies of the West because of apartheid. Israel has been fighting a just war, fighting for its very existence against the totalitarian jihadists and if it becomes a pariah state it will not be Israel’s fault. It is not Israel’s fault that European politicians are cowards and that many students in European and American universities have become zombies.
There is hope that Israel will not become a pariah state amongst the Arab nation states, particularly with Trumps help and efforts. I also think the Wests military leaders will, at least, view Israel most favorably, even maybe in awe, after the latest wars.
I'm confused why so many people view the National Socialist German Workers' Party, in hindsight, as a "right-wing" party.
Especially as its rise in what used to be considered elite German universities parallels so closely, as you note, to the rise in socialism in what used to be elite American universities.
We don't confuse what's happening in the fetid halls of Harvard, Yale and Columbia as anything other than "left-wing" ideology.
Perhaps the wings join each other at their ends. They both seem to want to end in some sort of authoritarian fantasy utopia in which individuals have no rights. At least individuals who don't hate what the government tells them to hate.
It's ultimately not relevant which "wing" the violent extremists occupy. We just need to keep them away from the figurative West Wings of their governments.
But it's important to consider why the media (and now TFP is part of the mass media, ugh) is so desperate to label the Nazis as "right-wing" when their socialist counterparts today are definitely not. Why is that?
During the 20's and 30's in Germany the Socialist Party and Socialism was very popular with the general population and the workers in particular. Hitler named his party the National Socialists Party to take advantage of the popularity of "Socialists". The "Nationalist" part of the name is the key difference. It was definitely a party of the Right.
Any response to the discussion in the video where they talk about its popularity on college campuses, which died in almost exactly the same way the Ivy League campuses have died in recent years?
Or does that violate the mainstream media narrative?
Really, what is the difference between the extreme right and the extreme left, anyway?
Jim you asked why the Nazi's are considered to be Right Wing when their name was the National Socialist Party. Then I tried to explain that Hitler used the term socialist which had a positive connotation with the German people in order to compete with the Socialist Party and pull some of the support to his party. His party was definitely from the Right Wing Nationalists spectrum. That's why he had such strong support from the military. This history does nothing to diminish the facts about the bigotry, bias and illiberalism of the present day far left which seems to mirror the fascism of the right.
When you start slinging around the "left" and "right" in this argument, why do you conclude that fascism is the goal of the right and not a goal of the left?
We can conclude that Nazism is a form of fascism. But that's true about what the campuses want. And it's also true about the nationalist extremes of the right-wing today.
They share so much. Intersectionalism is a form of racial purity, just like Nazism.
I get that Hitler didn't have much interest in Marxist philosophy or dismantling private enterprise. He would not have defined socialism the same way Lenin would have.
But at the core of all these extremes is the notion that privilege or race means everything. Only individuals with the right characteristics have rights. How is Hitler's fascism any different than the fascism you would have seen at an early-20th Century KKK rally (the Southern Democrat version) or at today's KKK rallies on college campuses (keffiyeh klux klan)? All are examples of a form of nationalism where racial purity is more important than merit.
Yesterday I thought I would look up Bari's new appointment. Instead I found her listed on every news channel as a ZIONIST. NO explanation of what they meant by that caption. I guess we, who want Israel to survive, must all be Zionists, regardless of religious beliefs. Bye the way there is no way to leave comments with the news. I hope she can withstand the assault that will now take place.
Yes! The world, and especially the Arab world, should never forget or forgive Hamas for inviting war and embedding themselves amongst civilians. Even more, they hid underground and refused to alloy civilians the same protection. Sickening!!!
Brilliant as always. Niall’s point about the risk of Israel becoming an international pariah is particularly important. My sense is that there another potential danger insofar as Israel, should it be shunned by the West could potentially find an avid partner in China. They had a joint project in the new high-tech port of Haifa with discussions of other major projects. Thanks to pressure from the US, these projects were scrapped. Should the US, possibly under a D administration, turn their back on the only democracy in the Middle East, the loser would be the US and the West. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of leading edge technology originates in Israel. Having Israel align itself with China would represent a profound danger and a very different world.
Consider issues more close to home. The next Dem President will quickly reopen the border, will lift $$ sanctions on Iran and will eliminate all limits on the gender mutilation of young children.
Thanks for your journalism, Bari. It’s great to see the slow but steady return, in media spaces, of adults creating adult content—by acting and talking like adults. Amid the legitimate concerns over “institutions,” it’s worth remembering that institutions are essential to sustaining democratic life, but they are expressions of values that spring from citizens, not the source of them. A handful of new media operators are quietly demonstrating this truth—showing that Western values are renewed through individual conscience and civic seriousness, not through corporate boards, universities, nonprofits, or bureaucracies.
Here’s hoping the influence of uninformed but charismatic internet influencers continues to fade, making room for a flourishing new media culture led by seasoned journalists, studious commentators and serious thinkers from all walks of life.
Bari I know this topic, but to be totally honest I subscribed for one month only (my family is lower middle class and money is tight) because I wanted to try to get this message to you because I thought it was of super importance. You may not. But if we wish to unify the country and avoid civil war I believe this to be necessary.
With your new job at CBS, I think it would be a great idea, and crucially needed, to have a Sunday night CBS News show dedicated to at least an hour long debate on a hot bottom topic. Line up sponsors so you can do it ad free and acknowledge them at the beginning and the end of the show for their sponsorship. Format; find the hottest issues either of that week or ongoing national fracturing, let each side choose their best representative to send and finally a moderator that is totally unbiased and can call balls and strikes. My guess is that maybe partnering with Straight Arrow News as a real time fact checker, like how the Jubilee debates do their post production Straight Arrow News fact checking. But at least an hour uninterrupted. Like Charlie Kirk said, when we stop talking that's when the violence starts. I love The Free Press debates! But post production, unbiased like Straight Arrow News graphic thrown up on the screen is vitally necessary to keep trust on both sides.
Jim, relax a bit. I'm not slinging around terms for no reason. Left and Right are terms to describe political philosophies. And I did not say fascism is the goal of only the right.
You asked a question. You wondered why people (historians?) consider Nazi's were from the Nationalist type movements which are most times considered of the "Right". I tried to answer your question. Just because they had Socialist as part of their name didn't mean they were Socialist of the "Left". Just because a group calls itself Jewish Voice for Peace doesn't mean they are either Jewish or for peace. The Soviets were considered Leftists. Doesn't mean they weren't as nasty as the Nazi's. I'm on your side Jim. And I say a curse on both their houses! Like I said. I just wanted to answer your question
Thank you Bari Weiss and Niall Ferguson. As usual, a deep, broad and nuanced overview about the changed world in which we live.
Particularly stirring for me were Niall’s answers to three of Bari’s questions. First, what keeps him up at night? The unintended consequences of AI, moving away from communicating via writing, a reversion to a citizenry which becomes functionally illiterate and communicates via simplistic memes.
Second, what makes a second Holocaust more possible? Illiteracy coincides with a lack of historical knowledge which makes people vulnerable to manipulation by conspiracy theories. This supports Einat Wilf’s explanation of how since October 7, 2023 the “placard strategy” (https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1BbQfjvCpY/) has shifted. What started as slogans, she says, has grown into a dangerous ideology: the idea that a perfect society is just within reach if one obstacle is removed. She argues that Palestine has been cast as the symbol of global justice, while Israel, Zionism, and the Star of David are portrayed as the barriers — with the implied endgame being the removal or destruction of Jewish people as a group.
Third. What can we do about it? As a writer of sixteen books, Niall recommends reading books on historical events. One example being the diaries of Victor Klemperer in Dresden in the 1930s-1940s, depicting how Nazi ideology impacted ordinary Germans and the small, steady loses of Jewish rights which may be instructive for us today.
I won't believe that there's actually peace until Hamas lays down all its armaments and there is a non-Hamas government in place that won't drop everything and run away at the slightest provocation. Would also like to see Qatar fund rebuilding Gaza - no strings attached; leverage might come in the form of a threat to pull US airbase out of the country if this doesn't happen.
Excellent interview. However, it is a mistake to connect a few data points and then project them out to infinity, as Niall sometimes does.
History is not linear. More importantly, the future is not linear. It isn't even curvilinear. It is more like islands of possibilities - some good, some not so good.
There are shocks, innovations, non sequiturs. miracles, and catastrophic events that change all assumptions in an instant. (e.g. Jesus, the discovery of the Americas, the success of the American Revolution, the 2016 US Presidential election, to name a few)
Here's an island of possibility that could roll our socks down: Russia and Belarus invade Poland, take Warsaw, and slice south to take the eastern third of Romania, including Bucharest. They already have Moldova, and they will have completed a military envelopment of Ukraine, causing it to fall as well. Putin achieves his strategic goals: 1) A strategic land buffer against invasion from the west; 2) Access to the warm water ports of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean; 3) Humiliate NATO and prove it's a sham. (Which it is)
Does the West (i.e. US) have the balls to stop him if Putin threatens nuclear war? That's the kind of scenario that keeps me awake at night, not whether some nimrod in a plaid shirt said something stupid about Churchill.
Brilliant.
Thank you both.
I just can’t help thinking of the movie “Clear and Present Danger“ with top traitor James Cutter when Bari pronounces “Qatar“
The problem is the fluid morality of the left especially now in the age of misinformation.
I am disappointed that the transcript of this significant interview appears not to be accessible except in "real time" captions. As a podcast it characteristically suffers the potentially superficiality which "vocal" versus more formally "verbal" transmission entails.
I think that Niall Ferguson bringing up South Africa's pariah status in the 1970s and 1980 to warn of the possibility of Israel becoming a pariah state, although winning militarily, is somewhat misleading. After all, South Africa was justly ostracized by the democracies of the West because of apartheid. Israel has been fighting a just war, fighting for its very existence against the totalitarian jihadists and if it becomes a pariah state it will not be Israel’s fault. It is not Israel’s fault that European politicians are cowards and that many students in European and American universities have become zombies.
I very much agree, except for the zombie comment. European and American University students have become narcissistic, ahistoric morons!
There is hope that Israel will not become a pariah state amongst the Arab nation states, particularly with Trumps help and efforts. I also think the Wests military leaders will, at least, view Israel most favorably, even maybe in awe, after the latest wars.
I'm confused why so many people view the National Socialist German Workers' Party, in hindsight, as a "right-wing" party.
Especially as its rise in what used to be considered elite German universities parallels so closely, as you note, to the rise in socialism in what used to be elite American universities.
We don't confuse what's happening in the fetid halls of Harvard, Yale and Columbia as anything other than "left-wing" ideology.
Perhaps the wings join each other at their ends. They both seem to want to end in some sort of authoritarian fantasy utopia in which individuals have no rights. At least individuals who don't hate what the government tells them to hate.
It's ultimately not relevant which "wing" the violent extremists occupy. We just need to keep them away from the figurative West Wings of their governments.
But it's important to consider why the media (and now TFP is part of the mass media, ugh) is so desperate to label the Nazis as "right-wing" when their socialist counterparts today are definitely not. Why is that?
During the 20's and 30's in Germany the Socialist Party and Socialism was very popular with the general population and the workers in particular. Hitler named his party the National Socialists Party to take advantage of the popularity of "Socialists". The "Nationalist" part of the name is the key difference. It was definitely a party of the Right.
Sure, Guy, sure.
Any response to the discussion in the video where they talk about its popularity on college campuses, which died in almost exactly the same way the Ivy League campuses have died in recent years?
Or does that violate the mainstream media narrative?
Really, what is the difference between the extreme right and the extreme left, anyway?
Jim you asked why the Nazi's are considered to be Right Wing when their name was the National Socialist Party. Then I tried to explain that Hitler used the term socialist which had a positive connotation with the German people in order to compete with the Socialist Party and pull some of the support to his party. His party was definitely from the Right Wing Nationalists spectrum. That's why he had such strong support from the military. This history does nothing to diminish the facts about the bigotry, bias and illiberalism of the present day far left which seems to mirror the fascism of the right.
When you start slinging around the "left" and "right" in this argument, why do you conclude that fascism is the goal of the right and not a goal of the left?
We can conclude that Nazism is a form of fascism. But that's true about what the campuses want. And it's also true about the nationalist extremes of the right-wing today.
They share so much. Intersectionalism is a form of racial purity, just like Nazism.
I get that Hitler didn't have much interest in Marxist philosophy or dismantling private enterprise. He would not have defined socialism the same way Lenin would have.
But at the core of all these extremes is the notion that privilege or race means everything. Only individuals with the right characteristics have rights. How is Hitler's fascism any different than the fascism you would have seen at an early-20th Century KKK rally (the Southern Democrat version) or at today's KKK rallies on college campuses (keffiyeh klux klan)? All are examples of a form of nationalism where racial purity is more important than merit.
How would the Allies treated the German population if they built thousands of miles of secret tunnels for use in invading Poland and France?
Yesterday I thought I would look up Bari's new appointment. Instead I found her listed on every news channel as a ZIONIST. NO explanation of what they meant by that caption. I guess we, who want Israel to survive, must all be Zionists, regardless of religious beliefs. Bye the way there is no way to leave comments with the news. I hope she can withstand the assault that will now take place.
Top story on CBS website today is about how Gazan children victimized by war long for their lost childhoods.
Guess Bari hasn’t made much of a difference yet in the biased way this story is covered.
It was her first day on the job! Jeez
Yes! The world, and especially the Arab world, should never forget or forgive Hamas for inviting war and embedding themselves amongst civilians. Even more, they hid underground and refused to alloy civilians the same protection. Sickening!!!
Brilliant as always. Niall’s point about the risk of Israel becoming an international pariah is particularly important. My sense is that there another potential danger insofar as Israel, should it be shunned by the West could potentially find an avid partner in China. They had a joint project in the new high-tech port of Haifa with discussions of other major projects. Thanks to pressure from the US, these projects were scrapped. Should the US, possibly under a D administration, turn their back on the only democracy in the Middle East, the loser would be the US and the West. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of leading edge technology originates in Israel. Having Israel align itself with China would represent a profound danger and a very different world.
Consider issues more close to home. The next Dem President will quickly reopen the border, will lift $$ sanctions on Iran and will eliminate all limits on the gender mutilation of young children.
Thanks for your journalism, Bari. It’s great to see the slow but steady return, in media spaces, of adults creating adult content—by acting and talking like adults. Amid the legitimate concerns over “institutions,” it’s worth remembering that institutions are essential to sustaining democratic life, but they are expressions of values that spring from citizens, not the source of them. A handful of new media operators are quietly demonstrating this truth—showing that Western values are renewed through individual conscience and civic seriousness, not through corporate boards, universities, nonprofits, or bureaucracies.
Here’s hoping the influence of uninformed but charismatic internet influencers continues to fade, making room for a flourishing new media culture led by seasoned journalists, studious commentators and serious thinkers from all walks of life.