Of all the regrets of my long life the biggest are my two divorces and the damage done to four truly loving and forgiving children. Mostly my fault and I've tried to make it up to them and their mothers. Four divorces is not an "achievement" to be celebrated. Sorry if that sounds judgmental but try to remember that life is a marathon, not a sprint and there are moments of anger and emptiness that will pass in any relationship. Sure, there are people who just shouldn't be married. But if you decide to have children they have to be your primary focus, rather than your evanescent "happiness." My two cents for what it's worth.
Forgive yourself and move forward. None of us come out of this life unscathed. You do not have to be perfect to be a good parent, you just have to keep showing up! And the stories we tell ourselves matter, too, so divorce does not need to be looked at as a failure or an achievement, merely a lesson.
How gallant of you! Easy peasy. Just a lesson. The man just posted a self reflection of tremendous gravitas requiring a serious sense of self-appraisal. One that very few can arrive at. Your comment is the exact opposite of his message.
We are going on fifty years. A very easy fifty years because we are equally yoked sober and responsible people. Additionally I know what an oath means. Boomers are disastrously self absorbed.
We're going on 38 years. Ours has not been easy, but it has only been possible because we are, as you say, equally yoked. I chose my husband because he had the same commitments in life that I did. Our struggles have not been outside forces, but rather due to challenges of our ability to be adequately kind to each other.
"The ability to be kind." If only I'd learned that sooner. To be slow with the snappy retort and to learn to win by losing not lose by winning an argument but creating a hurt that didn't heal.
Words. It seems words hurt women in ways they don't men. My mother and her mother put up with sharp tongued men who were otherwise good. I'm an asshole like that but seldom with my bride. We often were three generational households
and could easily be again.
You can learn much from your mother if you're humble enough.
Celia that's a huge part of it. My ringtone for her phone is "Still the one" by Orleans. Sappy. I know. The point is she is. My friends make fun of that. The same friends who have gone through multiple marriages.
Okay, I will add to the sharing; my years married, 46 good years and we continue to agree to disagree and when we find agreement we laugh in disbelief.
My wife and I are also in our 50th year of marriage. We have two great kids and a wonderful two-year-old grandson. I can't imagine being married five times but am glad things finally worked out for Jonathan.
I’m the author’s stepson and the son of his fifth wife, Ilene.
This comment isn't at you, specifically, rather it just seemed like it'd be seen the most if I commented it as a reply to you, instead of somewhere far down below in the mass of threads.
Anyway, I hope that Ilene is his Jonathan's last wife, though his past would indicate otherwise.
First off, I’m super proud of Jonathan for getting this piece published.
TFP is an awesome place — for all the authors who were fortunate enough to get featured, well done. My personal fave is the one by Ruby LaRoca, 17. She made me feel incredibly dumb because at 17, I was busy skipping class to go snowboarding, which is even more embarrassing because I’m terrible at most sports, but especially the ones where it hurts when you fall.
Anyway, I read a bunch of the comments on this piece, and doing so made me feel like I should comment, especially because one comment said “You should ask each of your children and ex-wives to rewrite this story from their perspectives. Now that would be an interesting read. This was not.”
Now, I’m not here to defend Jonathan.
My family doesn’t do that.
We don’t support saving our kin from the hardships that come with having to interact with the mob. Life is hard. There will always be someone miserable who feels like yelling at you.
But I was a bit shocked.
To the kind comments, great. The piece is, after all, about a dude who sucked at dating for a very long time, and then finally figured it out (at least…I hope that’s the case, because my mother is a lot to handle, and even now, I can’t imagine if she were single again).
I pray they stay married until she dies.
But a bunch of the comments were not kind.
Vicious attacks that seemed to stem from what I can only interpret as insecurity. People who villainized the author for divulging the fact that he had screwed up.
Comments that would not be strange to me if this was, let’s say TikTok or Reddit, but I was surprised because I typically interpret TFP to be an audience of people who are open to hearing about journeys of imperfection, rather than what I read the majority of the negative comments to be, which were: “How dare a man be such a bad husband to all of these women.” And “Oh my god, he must be a terrible person for not putting the kids’ happiness before his own. What a monster.”
I guess I just fundamentally disagree with these comments, and yes, I’m doing my best to be unbiased here and ignore the fact that I’m related to, albeit via paperwork, the author.
I think life is short, and we all make choices and deal with the consequences.
But we are not here to judge the actions of others.
After all, if any of us had been born into the same human experience with the same set of circumstances, would we not act the same as the author did?
And should we not be empathetic and congratulate a stranger for acknowledging their mistakes?
I guess I just wonder where all the “nuclear family or bust” + “this man is evil” comments are coming from, and my best label for their genesis is that schadenfreude is unfortunately real.
Hey, I mean, as someone who is happily engaged, after having built a project management system to better vet and then cull the dudes I was dating, I have no problem with the fact that Jonathan was married 5 times. I don’t even care if that number had been 10.
What matters to me is that the author is now happier than they were before, and for all we know, my mother would have never married the version of the author who had been meek enough to push his own needs aside and stick it out through marriages 1-4.
I don’t know that my mother would be attracted to someone like that. I don’t think I would be either.
I think you should stay together for the kids if you want to stay together for the kids. And if you don’t want to, you shouldn’t.
If you’re not happily married to the person you’re with, the things most likely keeping you stuck are fear coupled with an inability to be alone.
So, yeah.
To everyone who is strong enough to put themselves first, congrats on having a higher probability of finding happiness.
I know plenty of people whose quest for personal happiness leaves a trail of destruction behind them. I have spent most of my life helping to clean up the damage done by other people.
There are times when divorce is best for the children. Sometimes a responsible parent needs to rescue their kids from an abuser, for example. Or one parent develops a mental illness that leaves them erratic to the point of being unsafe.
But abandoning a marriage for trivial reasons sends a very clear message to the kids: "you don't matter".
If the divorce isn't FOR the kids, then wait until the kids are grown.
Idk. I’m so happy my parents got divorced. How lucky was I to watch two people who weren’t in love show me that it’s possible to find love again rather than just play house in some sort of sterile partnership.
Yes the children were really lost a little bit in this saga. A friend of mine is currently pontificating divorce, for reasons that truly aren’t that great. She has 2 very young children. Meanwhile, I just listened to the interview of the author who outlined that the greatest privilege a child can have is being raised in a 2 parent household - these are the children, when adjusted for race and class, have the greatest economic, educational, and societal outcomes in life. My view is that when you choose to become a parent, your happiness is no longer the priority. Mothers seem to grasp this concept better than fathers - there are no single dads. I know that’s a controversial statement, but statistically speaking it’s true. Over 80% of children living with a single parent are with their mothers. There are many reasons for this, but one has to be, mothers feel in their core that their duty is to stay with their children. Men seem generally to survive the separation from their children more or less unscathed.
Single dad here! I know many other single fathers as well. Pls reconsider your assumption above ("there are no single dads") - respectfully, you are factually incorrect not to mention dismissive of a lot of men who have put their children's happiness far above their own 'freedom'. Being a single dad to my children was a gift. I am grateful for the opportunity to have been there for them when they needed it, and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything.
You’re the exception, and that’s wonderful. But statistically you are outweighed by single mothers by more than 4 to 1. I have no comment on your experience other than any parent who acknowledges that their role to raise and love the children they choose to have is doing the most difficult and the most right thing. Your kids are lucky to have you. But the vast majority of single parents are mothers (>80%). You may know some single fathers. I know none. But I know many single moms. And I am willing to bet most people have the same sphere of knowledge. Why that is, I postulate is based in biology and evolution, but that would be conjecture.
And ps - I am not dismissive whatsoever. You are a wonderful parent, and so are all the fathers who take on an active and loving role. As my 2 year old would say, you’re “good jobbing”
Hmmm, after my mother divorced my father because she was unhappy and needed to 'find herself', I was raised by a terrific single dad. My mother was still very much in my life, but I think there was a time there, where because of women's greater involvement in the workplace and feminism, that women were more encouraged to disengage from men, from their families and to seek happiness for themselves.
And it may be that the vast majority of single parents are women, but I believe a majority of those single moms were never married to begin with, rather than victims of husbands who just took off and disappeared.
When moms abandon their children in the first 9 months we call it abortion. A dad taking off in that time period isn't necessarily fatal for the child. The comparison point should be moms vs dads who take off after age 2 or so. I have known both.
Yes, mothers abandon their children, and sometimes those children are raised by single fathers.
Dasha, I agree, “mothers feel in their core that their duty is to stay with their children.” divorced mothers tend to be remain divorced longer than their ex-husbands.
My ex married a year after he walked out; moved 1200 miles away and I had our three kiddos under 11. He married his assistant 13 months later (and only 7 mos after the paper work was complete). My second husband and I married 4.5 years after we met.
It’s been a tough road as a blended military family of 8; with two narcissistic people as exes- but as a Christian family he and I have prevailed in being a cornerstone of faith and commitment. His ex is on her 4th marriage.
Divorce with children is devastating for decades to come. It causes a non- natural family dynamic. It is also financially penalizing and emotionally taxing.
The biggest problem is people see marriage as a business deal; and not a lifetime covenant. There is no “perfect” person; no “soul mate “ or any other dribble people claim to need. Commitment is a commitment. The author was obviously a cheater. You don’t “fall in love” while you are married unless you are looking too.
Please. I’m sure there were plenty of other non- self absorbed essays that could have shed light on life
I agree, this guy almost certainly cheated on his first wife. Then he didn't treat the second how she wanted to be treated..... Then he meets #4 ~8 weeks after he left #3..... Talk about moving fast.
I can't help but think that couples who are thinking of having children get all of the interpersonal issues identified and resolved BEFORE the first pregnancy, not after the kid is borne
Tragically, too many people use their kids as pawns, rooks, bishops, knights, or queens in the process of divorce....
Thanks but not particularly brave. Perhaps more rueful and the product of long, hard, honest discussions with the loving, forgiving adults I was fortunate to have fathered. At least my devotion to them never wavered and it mattered.
It was brave. Everyone can fall down. In their lives and make terrible mistakes. Here’s to hoping that you can forgive yourself as much as you are asking those who love you to forgive you.
I saw that movie where the girl told the guy that “life is a marathon, not a sprint”, although I don’t remember the name of the movie. But it is a great line! 🙂
I didn't, at all. As you correctly observed, Boomers are self-absorbed and I often wonder how we got this way. Too many selfish nostrums and theories prescribed? Parents who struggled with war and depression hellbent on making our lives easier than theirs were? The endless opportunities of the 50s and 60s? The equally endless hedonistic bs? Not sure. But we can maybe try to stop being so selfish and start sharing the bounty we were given with those who are waiting in the wings?
My parents were Greatest Gen, but they could not have children of their own; they adopted me when they were in their 40s.
I consider myself very fortunate that my parents had the time to observe the mistakes of other parents of their generation before they raised me. But being aware of the privations they grew up with made it clear to me WHY that generation wanted their children to have life easier than they did.
I often wonder what I would do, if in my early 20s at a December pro football game in New York City, my world were turned upside down by the PA announcement of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Four months later, my dad was on in a jungle hellhole called Guadalcanal. When I tried to enlist in another war half a world away, having just turned 17, he wouldn't sign the necessary papers. He never spoke about his service but I'm sure he wanted a better life for us - and he was adamant it meant not one fighting in another jungle. My regret. Not his.
Regrets are a funny thing as they hold an ever tugging reminder featuring ‘if only’ scenarios. Imagine having the chance to revisit regrets, how would that play out?
No issue with content I just see an opening to point something out.
The common saying “Half of all marriages end in divorce” is a great example of people misunderstanding statistics. About 70% of first marriages go the distance. But there is a small minority of chronic divorcees that throw off the average. Statistically after ones second divorce the probability of success goes into the single digits.
One of my few high school pals who couldn't make marriage last is, last I heard, on her third marriage. She was always looking for something newer and more exciting.
I call them pejoritively "seekers". You ask them for a dance and they spend the whole time looking over your shoulder for a better deal. They will never find it.
And also, divorce rates among college educated professionals have been trending down, and if I’m not mistaken, persistent marriage is >70% in that demographic
I'm sure Mr. Rosenberg is a nice person but as "marriage material" he raises more red flags than a Chinese Embassy. I have three brothers who are also serial husbands and who never seemed to even consider the common denominator in each of their marriages and my advice for any woman dating a man who isn't strong enough to deal with a domineering mother: don't just walk away - RUN!
That was the red flag to me as well. I was never keen on authoritative people including my drill sergeants in the army. My wife tries to redirect me, as she has the best of intentions, but her efforts are mostly futile but for certain healthy habits.
This can wear thin too. Some want a parent like partner who makes all the decisions then they can blame them when things go wrong, evading all responsibility. Then they get tired of the “controlling partner” and find a more submissive one. Rebelling against mean mommy or mean daddy for the “fun one” who worships them. Crazy makers.
Those of us who are not divorced may attribute that to many factors, including simply good luck rather than virtue. I have friends, good people all, who are divorced but never wanted to be.
But Mr. Rosenberg's story is very sad for reasons other than luck, notwithstanding his current solid relationship. One of the most destructive elements of today's culture is the un-seriousness of some people who marry, or who decide not to because they're unwilling to face the sometimes very tough road of lifelong commitment to another person, or who leave their marriages for those reasons. Those who bring their children through the wrack and ruin of multiple failed parental relationships perpetuate the decay, which affects so many. There are many marriages that should never have taken place, and abusive relationships that must be abandoned, but Mr. Rosenberg's story seems to be more a lack of seriousness about the most basic of adult responsibilities. Never to late to do the right thing; I pray his current marriage will be lasting and loving.
Still: why in the world was this essay chosen? Mr. Rosenberg writes, "Some may call me naive, and I’m sure some of my ex-wives would call me worse." Ya think? And "naive" wasn't the word that came to top of mind.
They have done studies on people and how they rate satisfaction with ice cream flavors. If you offer 3 flavors to one group, and offer 20 flavors to another group, those who were offered 3 will universally rate their flavor choice as more satisfying. Of course if you pick the pistachio, you’ll be kicking yourself for not choosing the amaretto tiramisu.
Point being, if you’re always expecting the next one to be better, you will never be happy with the one you have.
I'm happy for Jonathan that he found Irene, but bewildered that this summary was third place in an essay contest. Either the Free Press needs new readers and judges or I'm missing something. What nuanced lesson was learned? The writer's fourth marriage lasted longer than the others for platitudinous reasons. I got nothing out of this except a score, but as mentioned at the top, I'm glad the writer 'won' this round.
Well, OK...but it doesn't seem to impart anything about that either. One wonders whether the previous marriages would have worked if only 'she' had "believed in (him)." So whose "how not to" is it? The writer came of age during the era of getting out of marriages that "don't work." And that's how I read it, not quite understanding what the point was. Could these marriages have worked? If so, how? Or is it that one needs to kiss a lot of frogs before finding a princess? What lessons did the writer learn?
I do not think he learned anything. As for who the how-not-to is [for], the reader. I do not believe in "the age of getting out of 'marriages that 'don't work' ". I know it was common but it was and still is a diminishment of marriage as an institution. When you enter an institutional form of marriage where a union is literally formed it is about more than you as an individual. Which creates stability for the children who may come later. We have become such a
Maybe next year when we hear from some of the four exes.
My dad showed up to my oldest child's graduation. It so happened that his two exes were also there along with his current wife.
The second wife thought it would be amusing to pin 1st, 2nd and 3rd place prize ribbons onto the appropriate women. He took it as a champ though gritting his teeth in a smile!
This essay is okay and I'm happy for the authors happiness. I'd much rather read about the hardships and successes from those that made their marriage work over the decades, particularly with a good dose of humor, which is likely necessary to stay married for so long. I think the idea of "finding oneself" before marriage is destined to end in failure most of the time. Focusing solely on yourself, rather than others, leads to a life of selfishness. I believe this attitude is contributing to the the deep unhappiness we are seeing in today's youth, along with the sad statistic of half of all children being born to single mothers.
Just what the world needs, another paean to American Narcissism. This essay describes my father's story fairly accurately. Cheated on my mother when I was five and wrecked my sister and mother in the process. Married the harpy and spectacularly blew up his own emotional and financial life after a disastrous fifteen years with my "former wicked step-mother". Once again "fell in love" with "the other woman" and have been on the road for two decades in an RV and married for somewhere between five and fifteen years after finding "the one" who can tolerate his "me, me, me" schtick.
Anyway, the author appears to be an elderly man-child who hasn't really learned the lessons to be gained from divorce (it's not all about you; the more kids you have in various marriages, the more difficult everyone's lives become; perhaps you should just give up on marriage), he's simply lucked into finding someone just like him.
I feel an anger and judgment to some of the comments. I wonder why they are such. I find the writing truthful and filled with the hopeful gambles and hindsight flaws that each of us has in their lives in one way or another. We each have different needs. I know many a man and woman who absolutely must always have a partner in life. It's almost maniacal. That's their thing. It can be healthy and at times create problems. Yet, it's their way for better or worse. I enjoyed the piece even though I share almost nothing in approach to dating, marriage and the map of how to conduct oneself in life. I'm happy Mr. Rosenberg has found "the one", some of us never do. If you don't try you can bank on the never.
I think the push back could be because he cheated on his first wife, and never really improved on that. He doesn’t express any remorse for what that did to her, and what did that do to her? One can’t be sure from his essay. So what is the “wisdom” we are supposed to gain from his writing? We already know, or at least most of us do, cheating on your spouse is wrong, and divorcing four times is illl advised for anyone. Nothing new is offered in the story.
Yes but if we judge essays on a moral wisdom of what we will gain, we can dismiss every book that Jean Genet ever wrote, as one example. There are many more in the pantheon of great writers. Then the issue of whether we agree with a morality further lay questions that pollute our gauge of the quality and authenticity of a person's writing. There exists a tribal alignment to the idea that writing about cheating makes the reader a cheat unless he or she rejects what the writer has stated, truth aside. Are we here to demand repentance from an author so we may give our nod of approval? This to me seems a form of primal narcissism. How would this formula satisfy one if they are operating upon interest in art and intellectual curiosity, absent of tribal and moral clauses.
The underlying problem is that great art has to feel like you are wrestling with something approximating truth. In order to go the distance, it has to point to a human universal or speak to something aspirational (even in its absence). This essay misses ALL the marks. The language is not elevated. the moral of the story is not wise or prudent, and is seems the author himself misses the plot. It's also juxtaposed with some amazing writing that the Free Press usually publishes. Next to the High School essay winners, who at the beginning of their lives seem to have so much more just.. skill, this pales.
Well, Charles Bukowski built a nice career on morally imprudent, vulgar stories in a vortex of a crass alcoholic stupor. The language isn't exactly Joyce. The endings weren't about what he has learned and how he will change. On the contrary. He went further.
Nothing wrong with that. Though I have wrestled with Joyce, I've never had the pleasure of meeting Bukowski. Assuming the latter's writing is entertaining or celebrates something aspirational (even in its absence)?? I'm no puritan. Great writing (high or lowbrow) is still great writing. This essay misses the mark on all the above.
Bukowski explored the margins of life among those folks who are frequently forgotten and are not existent in the most authors worlds. His writings verged on the autobiographical with his disfiguring teenage acne, alcoholism (he came close to death in his 30s from chronic alcohol use), time spent gambling at the tracks in LA, and life lived in the slums and flophouses. His observations from the bottom looking up was a new voice in American literature. I found his observations, especially about women, eye opening and basically true. He opened up a world that young college students mostly never knew existed. That is why he gained such popularity of the time.
Did you see the documentary on Bukowski? It included interviews with his various ex-wives/girlfriends. As he became famous, his wives became younger and much better looking. Some of the early ones were downright freaky. One of them had whiskers. The last one was quite attractive.
Yes, I'm a great admirer of his writing. You summarize his work and impact with accuracy. Yet if moral standards or gaining wisdom were the criteria as some here have implemented as their standards, well, a good many transgressive writers would never have been published.
I think it may be that there is a thread to his narrative in which he tries to find himself in his partner and even in this 5th iteration he does not seem to recognize that his first task was to know himself as an individual as opposed to through his partner. There is nothing wrong with serial relationshipists and it's wonderful that he seems to have found himself in this 5th wife, but that self-actualization might have happened sooner if he understood that knowing himself was not to be found by marrying someone.
I agree with your assessment and i this lies the truth of the author and the nature of his character. I'm merely an observer. It may be a trap door reveal on his part, but a reveal nonetheless. I saw clearly the man writing this piece. My own judgments were present but they are separate from the simplicity and truthful position he writes of. The same can't always be said for more intellectually driven pieces with high language and style. For that, I enjoyed this man's essay. A flaw isn't necessarily less beautiful than the rehabilitated one. One stands naked for time, and the other is an exercise in transformation. Both can be interesting.
I'm sorry-- I think he has avoided knowing himself- by jumping into another relationship w/ out taking time to self-reflect. I know many men and women who continue to engage in this behavior way past their "best by" date. I'm glad he has found happiness, and perhaps an audience for his play?
I'm sorry but this is a false analogy. Genet is a great writer. Rosenberg is not. Great literature does not offer a moral but this type of essay is not memorable for the quality of writing so one expects some sort of memorable idea.
Indeed, and another counter point to my arguments, novels even auto-biographical fiction os somewhat different in parameters. Genet didn't start as Genet the great writer, but yes aside from Mr. Rosenberg not likely starting a literary career, he wrote truthfully about meandering in and out of relationships based on a central self serving goal. One can debate a personal taste over whether that os interesting. Barbara Loden made a film called "Wanda" in the early 70's. I'm not sure it had meaning beyond how the character, a woman, saw her life, adrift from one bad situation to another. That's how it began and ended. My point, criticising execution seems fair game, but content simply because one didn't learn or feel connected, that's all subjective. First person self reflective essay, that's it. Your right, not Genet, Proust or Bukowski. But, it's his own.
When they were teens, I gave my children and step child the advice to “not get married until you are 30.” I was not offered that wisdom by others, and my first marriage (at 22) was wrong from the start for both of us. I met my version of Ilene at 35, and fell for her almost immediately. It is 41 years since then and despite a lot of problems over the years, we are stronger than ever. I stand by that advice.
That’s probably fine advice for men. But let’s say a woman doesn’t get married until she’s thirty and wants a couple of married years before she has kids. She starts trying to get pregnant at 32. When she’s 33 and still not pregnant, she sees a fertility specialist and discovers she’s got a complex series of issues. Her odds of getting pregnant would have never been great to start with, but she’s nearing a natural plummet in her fertility, and it’ll be significantly harder at 33+ than it would have been at, say, 27.
Best advice my mother ever gave me: women should never assume they *can* get pregnant exactly when they *want* to get pregnant.
If I remember right, the Bible says men should be 30 before marriage. I tend to agree with that advice. It’s a bit different for women as we do mature earlier and have a ticking biological clock.
I made a decision to "settle" with my ex-husband when I was 28, driven by my desire to start a family and have children. Looking back, it was a major mistake, although it did bring me three wonderful children. Now, at 64, I find myself exploring dating apps, feeling like I would accept anyone who shows interest... until I came across your essay. I want to express my gratitude for empowering me and giving me hope.
Never settle!!! Honor yourself, and appreciate your children. I married at 28- to a man who didn't want children (I didn't believe him at the time!) so never had any. Divorced and was on my own for 12 years. Eventually met and married a wonderful man w/ grown kids, so now I get to be a granny! Persevere w/ the dating apps, but don't sell yourself short. And take your time and don't rush into anything!
I read somewhere that when woman are in relationships /marry men, they see them for their potential and men see woman just as they are. Big mistake for both.
I have a concern for the institution of marriage and for the well-being of future generations, not particularly to a woman who needs the last word or her ex-spouse.
You’re picking on someone who is like minded. He TOLD his friends that he married me because of the money my job as a physician would bring. He cheated through the marriage and bought re tal properties in his name only ( that I protested) with my money. He received 1/2 my retirement money and all the properties all included 1/2 million ( cash too) that I didn’t have to pay him. He took my children’s violins as ransom until I paid him. His sisters don’t even talk to him because they are disgusted. Do not speak of things you do not know.
You posted on a open comment board so I will post as I see fit. You 1) chose to marry him and 2) have children with him. You are not an innocent victim. You need to own up to your part of the problem. Everyone has a horror divorce story. I comment not to personalize or pick on anyone but perhaps my comment might be of some small benefit to the casual reader. And may your children never believe that they were created from material that you “settled “ for.
Of all the regrets of my long life the biggest are my two divorces and the damage done to four truly loving and forgiving children. Mostly my fault and I've tried to make it up to them and their mothers. Four divorces is not an "achievement" to be celebrated. Sorry if that sounds judgmental but try to remember that life is a marathon, not a sprint and there are moments of anger and emptiness that will pass in any relationship. Sure, there are people who just shouldn't be married. But if you decide to have children they have to be your primary focus, rather than your evanescent "happiness." My two cents for what it's worth.
Forgive yourself and move forward. None of us come out of this life unscathed. You do not have to be perfect to be a good parent, you just have to keep showing up! And the stories we tell ourselves matter, too, so divorce does not need to be looked at as a failure or an achievement, merely a lesson.
Thanks Emily. You sound like a forgiving soul.
How gallant of you! Easy peasy. Just a lesson. The man just posted a self reflection of tremendous gravitas requiring a serious sense of self-appraisal. One that very few can arrive at. Your comment is the exact opposite of his message.
Why are you pissing in Emily’s cornflakes? She wrote from the heart and it was sincere. Bruce liked what she wrote. Why spoil it with this?
Whatever you say, Puer aeternus.
All is forgiven now that you spoke furren! Now, if you'd just pissed on Bruce's shoes, I'd laugh and say, Well Done :-)
Emily, that was a whole lot of kindness!
Keep showing up, Amen!
Woody Allen said, "80% of success is showing up."
We are going on fifty years. A very easy fifty years because we are equally yoked sober and responsible people. Additionally I know what an oath means. Boomers are disastrously self absorbed.
We're going on 38 years. Ours has not been easy, but it has only been possible because we are, as you say, equally yoked. I chose my husband because he had the same commitments in life that I did. Our struggles have not been outside forces, but rather due to challenges of our ability to be adequately kind to each other.
"The ability to be kind." If only I'd learned that sooner. To be slow with the snappy retort and to learn to win by losing not lose by winning an argument but creating a hurt that didn't heal.
Words. It seems words hurt women in ways they don't men. My mother and her mother put up with sharp tongued men who were otherwise good. I'm an asshole like that but seldom with my bride. We often were three generational households
and could easily be again.
You can learn much from your mother if you're humble enough.
Very wise words, Bruce.
Thanks Shane. Happy New Year to you .
And you, Bruce,
Celia that's a huge part of it. My ringtone for her phone is "Still the one" by Orleans. Sappy. I know. The point is she is. My friends make fun of that. The same friends who have gone through multiple marriages.
Okay, I will add to the sharing; my years married, 46 good years and we continue to agree to disagree and when we find agreement we laugh in disbelief.
My wife and I are also in our 50th year of marriage. We have two great kids and a wonderful two-year-old grandson. I can't imagine being married five times but am glad things finally worked out for Jonathan.
Hi Bruce.
I’m the author’s stepson and the son of his fifth wife, Ilene.
This comment isn't at you, specifically, rather it just seemed like it'd be seen the most if I commented it as a reply to you, instead of somewhere far down below in the mass of threads.
Anyway, I hope that Ilene is his Jonathan's last wife, though his past would indicate otherwise.
First off, I’m super proud of Jonathan for getting this piece published.
TFP is an awesome place — for all the authors who were fortunate enough to get featured, well done. My personal fave is the one by Ruby LaRoca, 17. She made me feel incredibly dumb because at 17, I was busy skipping class to go snowboarding, which is even more embarrassing because I’m terrible at most sports, but especially the ones where it hurts when you fall.
Anyway, I read a bunch of the comments on this piece, and doing so made me feel like I should comment, especially because one comment said “You should ask each of your children and ex-wives to rewrite this story from their perspectives. Now that would be an interesting read. This was not.”
Now, I’m not here to defend Jonathan.
My family doesn’t do that.
We don’t support saving our kin from the hardships that come with having to interact with the mob. Life is hard. There will always be someone miserable who feels like yelling at you.
But I was a bit shocked.
To the kind comments, great. The piece is, after all, about a dude who sucked at dating for a very long time, and then finally figured it out (at least…I hope that’s the case, because my mother is a lot to handle, and even now, I can’t imagine if she were single again).
I pray they stay married until she dies.
But a bunch of the comments were not kind.
Vicious attacks that seemed to stem from what I can only interpret as insecurity. People who villainized the author for divulging the fact that he had screwed up.
Comments that would not be strange to me if this was, let’s say TikTok or Reddit, but I was surprised because I typically interpret TFP to be an audience of people who are open to hearing about journeys of imperfection, rather than what I read the majority of the negative comments to be, which were: “How dare a man be such a bad husband to all of these women.” And “Oh my god, he must be a terrible person for not putting the kids’ happiness before his own. What a monster.”
I guess I just fundamentally disagree with these comments, and yes, I’m doing my best to be unbiased here and ignore the fact that I’m related to, albeit via paperwork, the author.
I think life is short, and we all make choices and deal with the consequences.
But we are not here to judge the actions of others.
After all, if any of us had been born into the same human experience with the same set of circumstances, would we not act the same as the author did?
And should we not be empathetic and congratulate a stranger for acknowledging their mistakes?
I guess I just wonder where all the “nuclear family or bust” + “this man is evil” comments are coming from, and my best label for their genesis is that schadenfreude is unfortunately real.
Hey, I mean, as someone who is happily engaged, after having built a project management system to better vet and then cull the dudes I was dating, I have no problem with the fact that Jonathan was married 5 times. I don’t even care if that number had been 10.
What matters to me is that the author is now happier than they were before, and for all we know, my mother would have never married the version of the author who had been meek enough to push his own needs aside and stick it out through marriages 1-4.
I don’t know that my mother would be attracted to someone like that. I don’t think I would be either.
I think you should stay together for the kids if you want to stay together for the kids. And if you don’t want to, you shouldn’t.
If you’re not happily married to the person you’re with, the things most likely keeping you stuck are fear coupled with an inability to be alone.
So, yeah.
To everyone who is strong enough to put themselves first, congrats on having a higher probability of finding happiness.
And to the rest of the commenters, good luck.
I know plenty of people whose quest for personal happiness leaves a trail of destruction behind them. I have spent most of my life helping to clean up the damage done by other people.
There are times when divorce is best for the children. Sometimes a responsible parent needs to rescue their kids from an abuser, for example. Or one parent develops a mental illness that leaves them erratic to the point of being unsafe.
But abandoning a marriage for trivial reasons sends a very clear message to the kids: "you don't matter".
If the divorce isn't FOR the kids, then wait until the kids are grown.
Idk. I’m so happy my parents got divorced. How lucky was I to watch two people who weren’t in love show me that it’s possible to find love again rather than just play house in some sort of sterile partnership.
Yes the children were really lost a little bit in this saga. A friend of mine is currently pontificating divorce, for reasons that truly aren’t that great. She has 2 very young children. Meanwhile, I just listened to the interview of the author who outlined that the greatest privilege a child can have is being raised in a 2 parent household - these are the children, when adjusted for race and class, have the greatest economic, educational, and societal outcomes in life. My view is that when you choose to become a parent, your happiness is no longer the priority. Mothers seem to grasp this concept better than fathers - there are no single dads. I know that’s a controversial statement, but statistically speaking it’s true. Over 80% of children living with a single parent are with their mothers. There are many reasons for this, but one has to be, mothers feel in their core that their duty is to stay with their children. Men seem generally to survive the separation from their children more or less unscathed.
Single dad here! I know many other single fathers as well. Pls reconsider your assumption above ("there are no single dads") - respectfully, you are factually incorrect not to mention dismissive of a lot of men who have put their children's happiness far above their own 'freedom'. Being a single dad to my children was a gift. I am grateful for the opportunity to have been there for them when they needed it, and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything.
You’re the exception, and that’s wonderful. But statistically you are outweighed by single mothers by more than 4 to 1. I have no comment on your experience other than any parent who acknowledges that their role to raise and love the children they choose to have is doing the most difficult and the most right thing. Your kids are lucky to have you. But the vast majority of single parents are mothers (>80%). You may know some single fathers. I know none. But I know many single moms. And I am willing to bet most people have the same sphere of knowledge. Why that is, I postulate is based in biology and evolution, but that would be conjecture.
Citation: https://www.singleparentproject.org/single-parent-statistics
And ps - I am not dismissive whatsoever. You are a wonderful parent, and so are all the fathers who take on an active and loving role. As my 2 year old would say, you’re “good jobbing”
Hmmm, after my mother divorced my father because she was unhappy and needed to 'find herself', I was raised by a terrific single dad. My mother was still very much in my life, but I think there was a time there, where because of women's greater involvement in the workplace and feminism, that women were more encouraged to disengage from men, from their families and to seek happiness for themselves.
And it may be that the vast majority of single parents are women, but I believe a majority of those single moms were never married to begin with, rather than victims of husbands who just took off and disappeared.
Well yes, by single mom I mean no dad, not no husband. The dad took off.
When moms abandon their children in the first 9 months we call it abortion. A dad taking off in that time period isn't necessarily fatal for the child. The comparison point should be moms vs dads who take off after age 2 or so. I have known both.
Yes, mothers abandon their children, and sometimes those children are raised by single fathers.
Oops, Paul, you might call me out on my comment on divorced men. My “data” on this is based on divorced friends.
Dasha, I agree, “mothers feel in their core that their duty is to stay with their children.” divorced mothers tend to be remain divorced longer than their ex-husbands.
My ex married a year after he walked out; moved 1200 miles away and I had our three kiddos under 11. He married his assistant 13 months later (and only 7 mos after the paper work was complete). My second husband and I married 4.5 years after we met.
It’s been a tough road as a blended military family of 8; with two narcissistic people as exes- but as a Christian family he and I have prevailed in being a cornerstone of faith and commitment. His ex is on her 4th marriage.
Divorce with children is devastating for decades to come. It causes a non- natural family dynamic. It is also financially penalizing and emotionally taxing.
The biggest problem is people see marriage as a business deal; and not a lifetime covenant. There is no “perfect” person; no “soul mate “ or any other dribble people claim to need. Commitment is a commitment. The author was obviously a cheater. You don’t “fall in love” while you are married unless you are looking too.
Please. I’m sure there were plenty of other non- self absorbed essays that could have shed light on life
Than another I “deserved” blah blah blah.
I agree, this guy almost certainly cheated on his first wife. Then he didn't treat the second how she wanted to be treated..... Then he meets #4 ~8 weeks after he left #3..... Talk about moving fast.
I can't help but think that couples who are thinking of having children get all of the interpersonal issues identified and resolved BEFORE the first pregnancy, not after the kid is borne
Tragically, too many people use their kids as pawns, rooks, bishops, knights, or queens in the process of divorce....
I don’t think any of us get all of
Our interpersonal issues sorted ever. Life is hard.
Well said.
Thanks Lynne. I've always valued your opinion and honesty.
And I yours.
A brave realization to post
Thanks but not particularly brave. Perhaps more rueful and the product of long, hard, honest discussions with the loving, forgiving adults I was fortunate to have fathered. At least my devotion to them never wavered and it mattered.
It was brave. Everyone can fall down. In their lives and make terrible mistakes. Here’s to hoping that you can forgive yourself as much as you are asking those who love you to forgive you.
Thanks Simon. Much appreciated.
Well said, Simon.
It seems your kids have forgiven you because your devotion to them never wavered; they did not feel abandoned.
I saw that movie where the girl told the guy that “life is a marathon, not a sprint”, although I don’t remember the name of the movie. But it is a great line! 🙂
Here's another. "That's why we play eighteen holes".
Still. We're responsible. "Never mind the bollocks."
Thank you for this very adult comment. More married people should heed your message.
Bruce, I don’t think the essay was submitted and published to in order to have his life judged.
Perhaps. But everything submitted to the FP is up for grabs. That's the way it works here.
Yes, I am discovering that’s the way it works here. 😂
Bruce please don't read my comments as ragging on you. Please see these as a short open barreled 12ga with my eyes closed approach.
I didn't, at all. As you correctly observed, Boomers are self-absorbed and I often wonder how we got this way. Too many selfish nostrums and theories prescribed? Parents who struggled with war and depression hellbent on making our lives easier than theirs were? The endless opportunities of the 50s and 60s? The equally endless hedonistic bs? Not sure. But we can maybe try to stop being so selfish and start sharing the bounty we were given with those who are waiting in the wings?
My parents were Greatest Gen, but they could not have children of their own; they adopted me when they were in their 40s.
I consider myself very fortunate that my parents had the time to observe the mistakes of other parents of their generation before they raised me. But being aware of the privations they grew up with made it clear to me WHY that generation wanted their children to have life easier than they did.
It was a mistake to try to make it too easy.
I often wonder what I would do, if in my early 20s at a December pro football game in New York City, my world were turned upside down by the PA announcement of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Four months later, my dad was on in a jungle hellhole called Guadalcanal. When I tried to enlist in another war half a world away, having just turned 17, he wouldn't sign the necessary papers. He never spoke about his service but I'm sure he wanted a better life for us - and he was adamant it meant not one fighting in another jungle. My regret. Not his.
Regrets are a funny thing as they hold an ever tugging reminder featuring ‘if only’ scenarios. Imagine having the chance to revisit regrets, how would that play out?
This is an open question, not specific to Bruce.
Bruce, regrets are our teachers and you have learned much.
No issue with content I just see an opening to point something out.
The common saying “Half of all marriages end in divorce” is a great example of people misunderstanding statistics. About 70% of first marriages go the distance. But there is a small minority of chronic divorcees that throw off the average. Statistically after ones second divorce the probability of success goes into the single digits.
One of my few high school pals who couldn't make marriage last is, last I heard, on her third marriage. She was always looking for something newer and more exciting.
I call them pejoritively "seekers". You ask them for a dance and they spend the whole time looking over your shoulder for a better deal. They will never find it.
Yep, those people are never happy
And also, divorce rates among college educated professionals have been trending down, and if I’m not mistaken, persistent marriage is >70% in that demographic
I'm sure Mr. Rosenberg is a nice person but as "marriage material" he raises more red flags than a Chinese Embassy. I have three brothers who are also serial husbands and who never seemed to even consider the common denominator in each of their marriages and my advice for any woman dating a man who isn't strong enough to deal with a domineering mother: don't just walk away - RUN!
Well, I’m sure the “dominating mother” part was mitigated by the “95-year-old” part 😉
That was the red flag to me as well. I was never keen on authoritative people including my drill sergeants in the army. My wife tries to redirect me, as she has the best of intentions, but her efforts are mostly futile but for certain healthy habits.
My experience too.
“Find someone that believes in you”. Sorry dude, marriage is much more than this self centered approach.
My take too. Plus I do believe he is looking for mommy. Ilene fits that model.
This can wear thin too. Some want a parent like partner who makes all the decisions then they can blame them when things go wrong, evading all responsibility. Then they get tired of the “controlling partner” and find a more submissive one. Rebelling against mean mommy or mean daddy for the “fun one” who worships them. Crazy makers.
I agree.
I agree
It's so simple. Others. Others first.
Now living that day in, day out. Tough.
Some days I get it correctly.
Those of us who are not divorced may attribute that to many factors, including simply good luck rather than virtue. I have friends, good people all, who are divorced but never wanted to be.
But Mr. Rosenberg's story is very sad for reasons other than luck, notwithstanding his current solid relationship. One of the most destructive elements of today's culture is the un-seriousness of some people who marry, or who decide not to because they're unwilling to face the sometimes very tough road of lifelong commitment to another person, or who leave their marriages for those reasons. Those who bring their children through the wrack and ruin of multiple failed parental relationships perpetuate the decay, which affects so many. There are many marriages that should never have taken place, and abusive relationships that must be abandoned, but Mr. Rosenberg's story seems to be more a lack of seriousness about the most basic of adult responsibilities. Never to late to do the right thing; I pray his current marriage will be lasting and loving.
Still: why in the world was this essay chosen? Mr. Rosenberg writes, "Some may call me naive, and I’m sure some of my ex-wives would call me worse." Ya think? And "naive" wasn't the word that came to top of mind.
Yes, why was it chosen? Puzzling. She loves who he is, and he loves who he is with her???!!!!
She loves me, and I love me! We have so much in common!
This gave me a good laugh.
Sorry this guy is a narcissist evident from his first marriage and wanting a bigger life. What a jerk.
They have done studies on people and how they rate satisfaction with ice cream flavors. If you offer 3 flavors to one group, and offer 20 flavors to another group, those who were offered 3 will universally rate their flavor choice as more satisfying. Of course if you pick the pistachio, you’ll be kicking yourself for not choosing the amaretto tiramisu.
Point being, if you’re always expecting the next one to be better, you will never be happy with the one you have.
I'm happy for Jonathan that he found Irene, but bewildered that this summary was third place in an essay contest. Either the Free Press needs new readers and judges or I'm missing something. What nuanced lesson was learned? The writer's fourth marriage lasted longer than the others for platitudinous reasons. I got nothing out of this except a score, but as mentioned at the top, I'm glad the writer 'won' this round.
I read it as a how-not-to.
Well, OK...but it doesn't seem to impart anything about that either. One wonders whether the previous marriages would have worked if only 'she' had "believed in (him)." So whose "how not to" is it? The writer came of age during the era of getting out of marriages that "don't work." And that's how I read it, not quite understanding what the point was. Could these marriages have worked? If so, how? Or is it that one needs to kiss a lot of frogs before finding a princess? What lessons did the writer learn?
I do not think he learned anything. As for who the how-not-to is [for], the reader. I do not believe in "the age of getting out of 'marriages that 'don't work' ". I know it was common but it was and still is a diminishment of marriage as an institution. When you enter an institutional form of marriage where a union is literally formed it is about more than you as an individual. Which creates stability for the children who may come later. We have become such a
shallow, if-it-feels-good-do-it culture.
I agree. That's why "don't work" is in quotation marks.
Maybe next year when we hear from some of the four exes.
My dad showed up to my oldest child's graduation. It so happened that his two exes were also there along with his current wife.
The second wife thought it would be amusing to pin 1st, 2nd and 3rd place prize ribbons onto the appropriate women. He took it as a champ though gritting his teeth in a smile!
I'm all but for the grace of a loving creator go I.
Point taken.
Maybe there were four entrants?
You should ask each of your children and ex-wives to rewrite this story from their perspectives. Now that would be an interesting read. This was not.
Brilliant suggestion Andrea!
Having lost my wife of 50 years I have nothing to add but “no commitment?” “ To love and cherish till death do us part”.
Sorry for your loss but Thank God for the 50 years you had, it sounded like you had a good marriage.
So sorry for your loss.
This essay is okay and I'm happy for the authors happiness. I'd much rather read about the hardships and successes from those that made their marriage work over the decades, particularly with a good dose of humor, which is likely necessary to stay married for so long. I think the idea of "finding oneself" before marriage is destined to end in failure most of the time. Focusing solely on yourself, rather than others, leads to a life of selfishness. I believe this attitude is contributing to the the deep unhappiness we are seeing in today's youth, along with the sad statistic of half of all children being born to single mothers.
Just what the world needs, another paean to American Narcissism. This essay describes my father's story fairly accurately. Cheated on my mother when I was five and wrecked my sister and mother in the process. Married the harpy and spectacularly blew up his own emotional and financial life after a disastrous fifteen years with my "former wicked step-mother". Once again "fell in love" with "the other woman" and have been on the road for two decades in an RV and married for somewhere between five and fifteen years after finding "the one" who can tolerate his "me, me, me" schtick.
Anyway, the author appears to be an elderly man-child who hasn't really learned the lessons to be gained from divorce (it's not all about you; the more kids you have in various marriages, the more difficult everyone's lives become; perhaps you should just give up on marriage), he's simply lucked into finding someone just like him.
I feel an anger and judgment to some of the comments. I wonder why they are such. I find the writing truthful and filled with the hopeful gambles and hindsight flaws that each of us has in their lives in one way or another. We each have different needs. I know many a man and woman who absolutely must always have a partner in life. It's almost maniacal. That's their thing. It can be healthy and at times create problems. Yet, it's their way for better or worse. I enjoyed the piece even though I share almost nothing in approach to dating, marriage and the map of how to conduct oneself in life. I'm happy Mr. Rosenberg has found "the one", some of us never do. If you don't try you can bank on the never.
I think the push back could be because he cheated on his first wife, and never really improved on that. He doesn’t express any remorse for what that did to her, and what did that do to her? One can’t be sure from his essay. So what is the “wisdom” we are supposed to gain from his writing? We already know, or at least most of us do, cheating on your spouse is wrong, and divorcing four times is illl advised for anyone. Nothing new is offered in the story.
Yes but if we judge essays on a moral wisdom of what we will gain, we can dismiss every book that Jean Genet ever wrote, as one example. There are many more in the pantheon of great writers. Then the issue of whether we agree with a morality further lay questions that pollute our gauge of the quality and authenticity of a person's writing. There exists a tribal alignment to the idea that writing about cheating makes the reader a cheat unless he or she rejects what the writer has stated, truth aside. Are we here to demand repentance from an author so we may give our nod of approval? This to me seems a form of primal narcissism. How would this formula satisfy one if they are operating upon interest in art and intellectual curiosity, absent of tribal and moral clauses.
The underlying problem is that great art has to feel like you are wrestling with something approximating truth. In order to go the distance, it has to point to a human universal or speak to something aspirational (even in its absence). This essay misses ALL the marks. The language is not elevated. the moral of the story is not wise or prudent, and is seems the author himself misses the plot. It's also juxtaposed with some amazing writing that the Free Press usually publishes. Next to the High School essay winners, who at the beginning of their lives seem to have so much more just.. skill, this pales.
Well, Charles Bukowski built a nice career on morally imprudent, vulgar stories in a vortex of a crass alcoholic stupor. The language isn't exactly Joyce. The endings weren't about what he has learned and how he will change. On the contrary. He went further.
Nothing wrong with that. Though I have wrestled with Joyce, I've never had the pleasure of meeting Bukowski. Assuming the latter's writing is entertaining or celebrates something aspirational (even in its absence)?? I'm no puritan. Great writing (high or lowbrow) is still great writing. This essay misses the mark on all the above.
I wouldn't put Joyce and Bukowski on the same shelf- ever! In spite of their order in the alphabet- Joyce is on top!
Bukowski explored the margins of life among those folks who are frequently forgotten and are not existent in the most authors worlds. His writings verged on the autobiographical with his disfiguring teenage acne, alcoholism (he came close to death in his 30s from chronic alcohol use), time spent gambling at the tracks in LA, and life lived in the slums and flophouses. His observations from the bottom looking up was a new voice in American literature. I found his observations, especially about women, eye opening and basically true. He opened up a world that young college students mostly never knew existed. That is why he gained such popularity of the time.
Did you see the documentary on Bukowski? It included interviews with his various ex-wives/girlfriends. As he became famous, his wives became younger and much better looking. Some of the early ones were downright freaky. One of them had whiskers. The last one was quite attractive.
Yes, I'm a great admirer of his writing. You summarize his work and impact with accuracy. Yet if moral standards or gaining wisdom were the criteria as some here have implemented as their standards, well, a good many transgressive writers would never have been published.
You can couch it in whatever is the literary gobbledegook of the day, it remains that cheating on your spouse will bring pushback, as it should.
I think it may be that there is a thread to his narrative in which he tries to find himself in his partner and even in this 5th iteration he does not seem to recognize that his first task was to know himself as an individual as opposed to through his partner. There is nothing wrong with serial relationshipists and it's wonderful that he seems to have found himself in this 5th wife, but that self-actualization might have happened sooner if he understood that knowing himself was not to be found by marrying someone.
I agree with your assessment and i this lies the truth of the author and the nature of his character. I'm merely an observer. It may be a trap door reveal on his part, but a reveal nonetheless. I saw clearly the man writing this piece. My own judgments were present but they are separate from the simplicity and truthful position he writes of. The same can't always be said for more intellectually driven pieces with high language and style. For that, I enjoyed this man's essay. A flaw isn't necessarily less beautiful than the rehabilitated one. One stands naked for time, and the other is an exercise in transformation. Both can be interesting.
I'm sorry-- I think he has avoided knowing himself- by jumping into another relationship w/ out taking time to self-reflect. I know many men and women who continue to engage in this behavior way past their "best by" date. I'm glad he has found happiness, and perhaps an audience for his play?
I'm sorry but this is a false analogy. Genet is a great writer. Rosenberg is not. Great literature does not offer a moral but this type of essay is not memorable for the quality of writing so one expects some sort of memorable idea.
Indeed, and another counter point to my arguments, novels even auto-biographical fiction os somewhat different in parameters. Genet didn't start as Genet the great writer, but yes aside from Mr. Rosenberg not likely starting a literary career, he wrote truthfully about meandering in and out of relationships based on a central self serving goal. One can debate a personal taste over whether that os interesting. Barbara Loden made a film called "Wanda" in the early 70's. I'm not sure it had meaning beyond how the character, a woman, saw her life, adrift from one bad situation to another. That's how it began and ended. My point, criticising execution seems fair game, but content simply because one didn't learn or feel connected, that's all subjective. First person self reflective essay, that's it. Your right, not Genet, Proust or Bukowski. But, it's his own.
At least some of the judgment seems to be coming from people who were in the unenviable position of being the child of such a parent.
When you introduce children into the marriage, it becomes a whole different ballgame. It’s no wonder people are critical.
When they were teens, I gave my children and step child the advice to “not get married until you are 30.” I was not offered that wisdom by others, and my first marriage (at 22) was wrong from the start for both of us. I met my version of Ilene at 35, and fell for her almost immediately. It is 41 years since then and despite a lot of problems over the years, we are stronger than ever. I stand by that advice.
I got married at 36, my husband was 40. First marriage for both of us. We think we waited a little too long though; we now wish we’d had more kids!
Which means it worked. Good for you.
That’s probably fine advice for men. But let’s say a woman doesn’t get married until she’s thirty and wants a couple of married years before she has kids. She starts trying to get pregnant at 32. When she’s 33 and still not pregnant, she sees a fertility specialist and discovers she’s got a complex series of issues. Her odds of getting pregnant would have never been great to start with, but she’s nearing a natural plummet in her fertility, and it’ll be significantly harder at 33+ than it would have been at, say, 27.
Best advice my mother ever gave me: women should never assume they *can* get pregnant exactly when they *want* to get pregnant.
I would put it differently: don't get married until you are ready to be a grown-up.
Many young marriages fail because the partners are not actually ready to settle down.
If I remember right, the Bible says men should be 30 before marriage. I tend to agree with that advice. It’s a bit different for women as we do mature earlier and have a ticking biological clock.
Sorry but there’s no self-reflection here. I’m not sure why this essay was included in the finalists.
I made a decision to "settle" with my ex-husband when I was 28, driven by my desire to start a family and have children. Looking back, it was a major mistake, although it did bring me three wonderful children. Now, at 64, I find myself exploring dating apps, feeling like I would accept anyone who shows interest... until I came across your essay. I want to express my gratitude for empowering me and giving me hope.
Never settle!!! Honor yourself, and appreciate your children. I married at 28- to a man who didn't want children (I didn't believe him at the time!) so never had any. Divorced and was on my own for 12 years. Eventually met and married a wonderful man w/ grown kids, so now I get to be a granny! Persevere w/ the dating apps, but don't sell yourself short. And take your time and don't rush into anything!
I read somewhere that when woman are in relationships /marry men, they see them for their potential and men see woman just as they are. Big mistake for both.
How do you know he did not also settle with you?
I absolutely know. Thank you for your concern for him.
I have a concern for the institution of marriage and for the well-being of future generations, not particularly to a woman who needs the last word or her ex-spouse.
You’re picking on someone who is like minded. He TOLD his friends that he married me because of the money my job as a physician would bring. He cheated through the marriage and bought re tal properties in his name only ( that I protested) with my money. He received 1/2 my retirement money and all the properties all included 1/2 million ( cash too) that I didn’t have to pay him. He took my children’s violins as ransom until I paid him. His sisters don’t even talk to him because they are disgusted. Do not speak of things you do not know.
You posted on a open comment board so I will post as I see fit. You 1) chose to marry him and 2) have children with him. You are not an innocent victim. You need to own up to your part of the problem. Everyone has a horror divorce story. I comment not to personalize or pick on anyone but perhaps my comment might be of some small benefit to the casual reader. And may your children never believe that they were created from material that you “settled “ for.
I have and do tell my adult children that he was the best thing that happened to me.
Thank you for your public service. I have learned so much from you and I am humbled.
Wherever YOU go -there YOU are
pearl of wisdom ..... from the great Buckaroo Banzai