A few years ago after watching the Super Bowl half time show with my daughters, I complained on FB that we all could have done without the pole grinding crotch shots of J-LO. My daughters (both under 10 at the time) felt sad about how it made them feel as girls. They read it as objectifying. I was SLAUGHTERED by nearly everyone and slammed as a bigoted, backwards, pearl-clutcher. It was “cultural expression” a lot of them told me. (I asked them if they’d allow someone to prance on stage wearing the confederate flag as cultural expression- no reply.). Others said this was body shaming. My point was that if they were going to call this a family friendly event, make it so. If they want people grinding on poles, then fine but don’t call it that. No one could hear me through the din of outrage over my prudishness. It was breathtaking for me, and as a feminist (and at the time I was a liberal), I was so incredibly disappointed that as a woman, I wasn’t allowed to say - you know what, I don’t feel that staring eye level at J-Lo’s crotch is progress. Twisted.
The greatest delusion of mankind is that today we know things that a thousand generations before never figured out for themselves.
Human nature does not change. Neither do evolutionary adaptations. Women have a massive investment in propagating the species: they contribute all the nutritional resources to the developing child; they are vulnerable during pregnancy and for many years thereafter, and this investment is repeated for each and every child. Men's investment is contributing a few cc's of seed to start the process. A woman is 100% certain the child's DNA is hers; the man can never be certain, which is why men whose wives cheat are concerned with, "Did you f**k him?" and women with, "Are you in love with her?" These disparities also explain why it is men's nature to spread their DNA far and wide and women's to first and foremost secure a man's resources. It also explains why a prospective partner's body-count matters to men far more than it does to women: a promiscuous woman is more likely to cheat and less likely to pair-bond for a lifetime - and in today's world, to take his resources and run to the next Chad or Tyrone.
Has the sexual revolution failed? The damage to humanity's only priority - propagating the species - can never be fully known. And as a warrior who got off more than a few shots during that revolution, I have to say unequivocally, yes.
The worst part about the sexual revolution has been the institutional meddling in men’s and women’s choices.
Insisting that there be equal outcomes in all things is crazy.
There are many women who want to serve to be at the top of government, business, name the field. That should not mean that all women need to make the same choices as men. This is where we got things wrong. We assign numeric quotas and ignore the fact that not all human beings have the same objectives for their lives based on their sex (or any other immutable characteristic).
The sexual revolution has also made sexual intimacy far too recreational. As someone who partnered for life, I cannot speak to the thrill of having had an unlimited number of women to mate. But I can say that monogamy was deeply fulfilling, in bed and in the wider world we shared for 40 years.
She is now gone, and I will have many years to live alone, God willing. I don’t intend to change my behavior toward women or sex, in spite of the fact that my obligation to monogamy has been fulfilled and I could choose any path. My life experience set the bar too high to change now.
Grimes: "I mean, like at the airport, how does the entire line not just move out of the way so that moms & kids can go to the front of the line?"
Well that wouldn't be equitable for the CapitalOne platinum card members, all the folx who feel like they may have a disability that day and the people who drug their pets along dressed up up in a "Emotional Service Animal" vest purchased on Amazon.
Interesting debate. More stimulating and interesting would have been a few panel members age 70+. These are the women who lived through the entire revolution and birthed the generation struggling or enjoying its effects. The wisdom of their experiences spoken directly by them rather than filtered through this younger panel would have been much more valuable and exciting in trying to decide the answer to the debate topic. I’m surprised some weren’t invited. But then I’m not. This generation is still alive to tell their own story, but really, who would want to listen to a bunch of gray boomers who nurtured the current generation and broke all those so called glass ceilings?
Are women happier now than they were ~70 years ago? That's not a loaded question, I'm not insinuating anything. It's a genuine inquiry asked in good faith.
The answer to that might provide an answer to as whether the sexual revolution has failed.
Neither side won, because they are both right and wrong. What we need is a new sexual revolution. One that recognizes that women deserve equality, but there are biological differences between the sexes. Men should be empowered to be masculine, but held to a high standard. No one should be forced to adopt a lifestyle based on societal expectations either. The benefits of traditional family values on children is undeniable. Our culture should embrace traditional values, but it may look a little different than the 1950's.
I didn't watch the debate...just a portion. It would have made more sense to have had women from all generations, no? I sure know way more about myself at 50 than I did at 20. Wisdom is a beautiful thing. My 22 year old daughter and I are very close. She has sought my wisdom over the course of her entire life(age appropriate) on every topic. Maybe the women touched on this but what about the women who have chosen to WAIT to have sex til marriage? That is also part of the sexual revolution and there is nothing wrong with that choice.
I am 59 years old. Grew up in Ohio. Lived in NYC for 32 years as an artist. Left due to the extreme loss of freedom and tolerance, and I deeply loved that city for years. I was divorced and becoming successful during the Sex and The City years. Felt pressure to change my conservative previous ideas of only sleeping with men I was in love with. No one would ever call me an uptight person. I shaved my head like Sinead O’Connor 29 years ago as a sort of “I express my womanhood any way I want, and I actually feel prettier and more feminine with my lack of hair”. I believe feminism is allowing women to have choices. But a lot of that movement alienated me from a young age when I noticed so much messaging about how we HAD to “have it all” and “be it all”-and that message was increasing that we had to BE LIKE MEN. We had to beat 40 armed and dangerous men in the movies, look like Charlize Theron while doing it, be brilliant and successful in power careers, be as wanton with our bodies as men and remain as emotionally detached. So many women feel they must turn themselves into pornographic images for mens’ increasing addictive, disposable needs. Modern feminism and the sexual revolution have sold women the biggest lies. It de-feminizes us, it sends the message we must be a boss bitch, in effect, a man. It devalues us by making women debase themselves in porn to “make bank”. Plasticity, sex without romance, love or commitment-it just makes us devalued or valued in all the wrong ways. I recall wondering why I did not feel good about my Sex and the City style romps, why they frequently felt performative and ultimately sad when my gay and straight friends all cheered me on as “so fabulous”. I took a long, cold hard look in the mirror and thought: I never succumbed to peer pressure while younger, why am I doing this now in my late 30’s? Why am I ignoring the voice in my soul? The second I decided I would never sleep with a man again that did not meet a very high bar for me, a potential husband and future father-I fell in love with my best male friend and married him. I had my only child at age 40 because of the “your career is everything” myth-at the height of what became a very successful career I cherished. I walked away from the feminist myth at age 41 because I realized women were more visibly angry and miserable around me because of the LIE that they must be like men and HAVE IT ALL. I decided to focus on marriage and baby and became a stay at home, cookie baking mother.— June Cleaver but still with the extreme buzz cut! I was treated badly by other women on many occasions (as if I was deficient or unsuccessful for choosing this life), something that never happened when I had my glam career and single city dwelling life. I don’t recall a man ever expressing that attitude towards me when I shifted gears. I could go on and on and on. Of course human beings are each unique, but in general-our female BIOLOGY and chromosomes determine more about our different genders than people want to admit. I loved this panel and the sense of respect and humor shared amongst all the women! It was just a beautiful thing to see. The world I grew up in, where we had intellectual freedom and civility. Thank you, Bari!
Appreciate the conversation. Great points made including the recognition that failure may have not been the best term to use. Caused problems? Yes. Failure? Not quite. Having said that, the loosening of all guardrails creates a free for all that absolutely impacts us psychologically & has us again, searching for a structure to live within. I wish someone would have strongly stated the obvious---that men & women are built differently by nature in their sexuality & the push for women to live like men in that regard is a central part of the issue. I love Grimes take on the social move to respect motherhood & children. And I absolutely love the idea about folding children back into society along with the elderly. We all live in age segregated bubbles that creates an unnecessary distance between generations & therefore lack of wisdom sharing & critical conversations.
If there was to be a revolution for women, I would have hoped it resulted in more self confidence, empowerment and self respect. I don’t think this one did.
A few years ago after watching the Super Bowl half time show with my daughters, I complained on FB that we all could have done without the pole grinding crotch shots of J-LO. My daughters (both under 10 at the time) felt sad about how it made them feel as girls. They read it as objectifying. I was SLAUGHTERED by nearly everyone and slammed as a bigoted, backwards, pearl-clutcher. It was “cultural expression” a lot of them told me. (I asked them if they’d allow someone to prance on stage wearing the confederate flag as cultural expression- no reply.). Others said this was body shaming. My point was that if they were going to call this a family friendly event, make it so. If they want people grinding on poles, then fine but don’t call it that. No one could hear me through the din of outrage over my prudishness. It was breathtaking for me, and as a feminist (and at the time I was a liberal), I was so incredibly disappointed that as a woman, I wasn’t allowed to say - you know what, I don’t feel that staring eye level at J-Lo’s crotch is progress. Twisted.
The greatest delusion of mankind is that today we know things that a thousand generations before never figured out for themselves.
Human nature does not change. Neither do evolutionary adaptations. Women have a massive investment in propagating the species: they contribute all the nutritional resources to the developing child; they are vulnerable during pregnancy and for many years thereafter, and this investment is repeated for each and every child. Men's investment is contributing a few cc's of seed to start the process. A woman is 100% certain the child's DNA is hers; the man can never be certain, which is why men whose wives cheat are concerned with, "Did you f**k him?" and women with, "Are you in love with her?" These disparities also explain why it is men's nature to spread their DNA far and wide and women's to first and foremost secure a man's resources. It also explains why a prospective partner's body-count matters to men far more than it does to women: a promiscuous woman is more likely to cheat and less likely to pair-bond for a lifetime - and in today's world, to take his resources and run to the next Chad or Tyrone.
Has the sexual revolution failed? The damage to humanity's only priority - propagating the species - can never be fully known. And as a warrior who got off more than a few shots during that revolution, I have to say unequivocally, yes.
The worst part about the sexual revolution has been the institutional meddling in men’s and women’s choices.
Insisting that there be equal outcomes in all things is crazy.
There are many women who want to serve to be at the top of government, business, name the field. That should not mean that all women need to make the same choices as men. This is where we got things wrong. We assign numeric quotas and ignore the fact that not all human beings have the same objectives for their lives based on their sex (or any other immutable characteristic).
The sexual revolution has also made sexual intimacy far too recreational. As someone who partnered for life, I cannot speak to the thrill of having had an unlimited number of women to mate. But I can say that monogamy was deeply fulfilling, in bed and in the wider world we shared for 40 years.
She is now gone, and I will have many years to live alone, God willing. I don’t intend to change my behavior toward women or sex, in spite of the fact that my obligation to monogamy has been fulfilled and I could choose any path. My life experience set the bar too high to change now.
How about a transcript? Lots of us prefer to read than to listen / watch. Even an AI-made one with some errors would be good.
This about sums it up-
Grimes: "I mean, like at the airport, how does the entire line not just move out of the way so that moms & kids can go to the front of the line?"
Well that wouldn't be equitable for the CapitalOne platinum card members, all the folx who feel like they may have a disability that day and the people who drug their pets along dressed up up in a "Emotional Service Animal" vest purchased on Amazon.
Just sayin....
Interesting debate. More stimulating and interesting would have been a few panel members age 70+. These are the women who lived through the entire revolution and birthed the generation struggling or enjoying its effects. The wisdom of their experiences spoken directly by them rather than filtered through this younger panel would have been much more valuable and exciting in trying to decide the answer to the debate topic. I’m surprised some weren’t invited. But then I’m not. This generation is still alive to tell their own story, but really, who would want to listen to a bunch of gray boomers who nurtured the current generation and broke all those so called glass ceilings?
Are women happier now than they were ~70 years ago? That's not a loaded question, I'm not insinuating anything. It's a genuine inquiry asked in good faith.
The answer to that might provide an answer to as whether the sexual revolution has failed.
Neither side won, because they are both right and wrong. What we need is a new sexual revolution. One that recognizes that women deserve equality, but there are biological differences between the sexes. Men should be empowered to be masculine, but held to a high standard. No one should be forced to adopt a lifestyle based on societal expectations either. The benefits of traditional family values on children is undeniable. Our culture should embrace traditional values, but it may look a little different than the 1950's.
I didn't watch the debate...just a portion. It would have made more sense to have had women from all generations, no? I sure know way more about myself at 50 than I did at 20. Wisdom is a beautiful thing. My 22 year old daughter and I are very close. She has sought my wisdom over the course of her entire life(age appropriate) on every topic. Maybe the women touched on this but what about the women who have chosen to WAIT to have sex til marriage? That is also part of the sexual revolution and there is nothing wrong with that choice.
“We have the sexual revolution to thank for things like the pill”
————————————————
This is like saying
“We have the military industrial complex to thank for things like cluster munitions.”
I am 59 years old. Grew up in Ohio. Lived in NYC for 32 years as an artist. Left due to the extreme loss of freedom and tolerance, and I deeply loved that city for years. I was divorced and becoming successful during the Sex and The City years. Felt pressure to change my conservative previous ideas of only sleeping with men I was in love with. No one would ever call me an uptight person. I shaved my head like Sinead O’Connor 29 years ago as a sort of “I express my womanhood any way I want, and I actually feel prettier and more feminine with my lack of hair”. I believe feminism is allowing women to have choices. But a lot of that movement alienated me from a young age when I noticed so much messaging about how we HAD to “have it all” and “be it all”-and that message was increasing that we had to BE LIKE MEN. We had to beat 40 armed and dangerous men in the movies, look like Charlize Theron while doing it, be brilliant and successful in power careers, be as wanton with our bodies as men and remain as emotionally detached. So many women feel they must turn themselves into pornographic images for mens’ increasing addictive, disposable needs. Modern feminism and the sexual revolution have sold women the biggest lies. It de-feminizes us, it sends the message we must be a boss bitch, in effect, a man. It devalues us by making women debase themselves in porn to “make bank”. Plasticity, sex without romance, love or commitment-it just makes us devalued or valued in all the wrong ways. I recall wondering why I did not feel good about my Sex and the City style romps, why they frequently felt performative and ultimately sad when my gay and straight friends all cheered me on as “so fabulous”. I took a long, cold hard look in the mirror and thought: I never succumbed to peer pressure while younger, why am I doing this now in my late 30’s? Why am I ignoring the voice in my soul? The second I decided I would never sleep with a man again that did not meet a very high bar for me, a potential husband and future father-I fell in love with my best male friend and married him. I had my only child at age 40 because of the “your career is everything” myth-at the height of what became a very successful career I cherished. I walked away from the feminist myth at age 41 because I realized women were more visibly angry and miserable around me because of the LIE that they must be like men and HAVE IT ALL. I decided to focus on marriage and baby and became a stay at home, cookie baking mother.— June Cleaver but still with the extreme buzz cut! I was treated badly by other women on many occasions (as if I was deficient or unsuccessful for choosing this life), something that never happened when I had my glam career and single city dwelling life. I don’t recall a man ever expressing that attitude towards me when I shifted gears. I could go on and on and on. Of course human beings are each unique, but in general-our female BIOLOGY and chromosomes determine more about our different genders than people want to admit. I loved this panel and the sense of respect and humor shared amongst all the women! It was just a beautiful thing to see. The world I grew up in, where we had intellectual freedom and civility. Thank you, Bari!
Has the Sexual Revolution Failed?
The US birthrate per 1000 has dropped by more than one-half since 1950.
You tell me.....
Appreciate the conversation. Great points made including the recognition that failure may have not been the best term to use. Caused problems? Yes. Failure? Not quite. Having said that, the loosening of all guardrails creates a free for all that absolutely impacts us psychologically & has us again, searching for a structure to live within. I wish someone would have strongly stated the obvious---that men & women are built differently by nature in their sexuality & the push for women to live like men in that regard is a central part of the issue. I love Grimes take on the social move to respect motherhood & children. And I absolutely love the idea about folding children back into society along with the elderly. We all live in age segregated bubbles that creates an unnecessary distance between generations & therefore lack of wisdom sharing & critical conversations.
Of course it failed. It was based on a lie and always has been.
No men on the podium. Apparently, they’re not involved?
If there was to be a revolution for women, I would have hoped it resulted in more self confidence, empowerment and self respect. I don’t think this one did.