For this week’s Honestly, we’re sharing a favorite episode from a favorite podcast, one you may not have heard of: UnHerd with Freddie Sayers. UnHerd’s mission is similar to ours: to push back against the herd mentality, and to provide a platform for otherwise unheard ideas, people, and places.
Andrew Sullivan’s argument is: “He said he was going to be a tyrant in 2016, but then when he had the opportunity, he didn’t do it. But this time he definitely will!” Got it.
You beat me to it. No matter how liberals like Sullivan pull towards the truth, they snap back to form. Take the outcry in these pages over the rampant antisemitism of the Left after Oct 7th; but when a new Speaker of the House's first act is a resolution supporting Israel, they mock him as a far-right Christian zealot. Guess for which side they will vote and then not understand why the gov doesn't do more against antisemites. Or the exposure of the Trans ideology maiming children that is 100% on the Left. Or the censorship pushed only by the Left as evidenced in the Twitter files. Or the Left's coddling of crime and drug addiction while our cities spiral into the abyss. Or the undemocratic methods being used to ensure that doddering Briben will be the only choice for Dems. Bari and company will rightly denounce all of these and actually be surprised that these policies have resulted in evident misery, then march into the voting booth and "save democracy" by voting for them.
I listened to Andrew list of all the awful things about Trump that he was so sure would happen but didn’t during his presidency and kudos for that. Then he listed off all the things he was sure would happen during a second Trump presidency without any awareness that if he was so wrong the first time about so many things, odds are he’s wrong this time too. All the people like Andrew who were also sure how a Biden presidency would go have been spectacularly wrong about that too. Maybe have some self reflection about why no one takes your warnings seriously. The boy who cried wolf and all that.
But still, you have to take people at their face value at some level too. What Trump *says* he will do is disqualifying on its face IMO. Would he actually do all of them? Nah, I doubt it. But the fact he says he would is disqualifying for me.
I also won't vote for Biden or the democratic party. I want to send a message to them that they can't keep operating per usual. I absolutely do not buy the argument that not voting for the second worse is like voting for the worst. I call B.S. on that. It's *extremely* short sighted. How else is the democratic party going to get the message that they need to clean up their act and change direction.
I appreciated listening to Andrew Sullivan vomit Rachael Maddow talking points. He re-“affirmed” my view that it wasn’t Trump that brought chaos in 2016; rather, it was the decapitated elites flailing about in search of their golden roosts.
I get the impression Andrew doesn't listen to what Trump says, he listens to what other people say Trump said. I sincerely do not know why people say he is intelligent or esteemed. Makes my brain hurt.
Sullivan lost me when he said that he doesn't have TDS, but that Trump is deranged. That is LITERALLY the definition of TDS. Seriously dude, get help.
Based on really trying to listening to the discussion, it seems like if only Trump wouldn't destroy the Constitution, everything else he did was awesome (paraphrasing...). Sigh.
When will anti-Trumpers understand (Bill Maher applies here as well), that Trump simply appeals to people that believe they are not listened to. It's not much more complicated than that. For every progressive socialist and every university know-it-all (well, they think so anyway), for every political opponent that believes that their prosecution will be "the one", and for every media pundit that tries to make things more complex and "democracy-ending" about Trump, they fail miserably and he just gets more popular.
The only way to beat Trump is to come up with better candidates that really listen to Americans and have a reasonable plan to, um, make America great again...
Steve - well said... TDS... I had to laugh when Sullivan downplayed that, and then gave a perfect example of why he himself is inflicted with the disease.
Exactly. We'll said. If we leave the political class to decide we get Biden or Newsom or Haley. Company men or women that will only pretend to care about the American people while lining their pockets with more corruption. Trump was the opposite of that.
Trump revealed the Uniparty to the American people. It has never been more obvious that we've always just had the illusion of choice. Either way we were getting the same thing. The fighting between Uniparty sides is mostly theatrics. They work across the aisle, they bend a knee. Because no one loses in the Uniparty.
Trump is not part of that club and can't be controlled. They will stop at nothing to stop him from infiltrating their club again and that includes harming the American people. Killing us even. I am not being hyperbolic. Look around at what they have already done in the attempt to get rid of him.
I think it is you who is not paying attention. Sullivan understands very well the exact reasons you stated that people like Trump. But that in no way means Sullivan's points aren't also valid.
I also don't hate all Trump policies, but being a seditionist is to me disqualifying, end of story. It doesn't matter what else Trump has to say; that disqualifies him from getting my vote anyway. He *did* encourage people to try and prevent the peaceful transfer of power. So, IMO, he is guilty of sedition.
Also, Trump is just a scumbag of a human. He disrespects literally everyone. For me, that also is disqualifying.
And no, I'm not a Biden supporter either, or a democrat.
Steve, the more I re-read your analysis, the more I think you are right on - in every aspect. I repeat, well said. (This, BTW, coming from a solid Right Of Center voter, who is no fan of Trump, who voted in three primaries for other candidates, but who will 3 times vote for Trump in the general election)
What a total waste of time. Want to understand Trump and the Trump Voters do not listen to this drivel. Sullivan clearly does not live in the real world and can not tolerate any thing outside of his little east coast bubble of liberal elites.
Listened to this failed analysis of Trump. Total waste of time. I was expecting a more insightful self-reflection. What we got was “Well I got it wrong the first time but not this time” and “I am a little torn because he did a lot of things right”. As to speak about the rule of law is a joke without referencing Hillary, the mockery of the contrived J6 hearing, Hunter’s laptop, Hunter himself and now POTUS’ retention of classified docs when he did not have a right to them, willful mishandling, etc and not being charged because he is dawdling old man. I understand TFP needs, and we need, insights on our political leaders I do not believe a person with TDS is the correct start.
I don’t ever recall hearing Trump say he would be a dictator and I think if he had said it- dens would have made a million political ads using him saying it.
No one can argue that Trump isn’t a megalomaniac but most politicians have a bit of that- that’s why they seek office. But no mention that Trump has been royally screwed by “the rule of law”. He has had more than his fair share of witch hunts- most notably the woman who accused him of rape but didn’t know when… and he definitely wasn’t tried by a jury of his peers. The interviewer could have at least questioned Sullivan about his take on that. Overall- the interview fell short of the mark
I agree . I was hoping for more . I was hoping for an apology. I know it’s too much to ask. If Biden took an acuity exam and was found fit I would apologize . I’ve told everyone that I would take the man’s car keys if he were my grandpa .
The only time I recall Trump saying he would be a dictator is when he said he would be a dictator on day 1 and issue a number of Executive Orders to close the border. That is no different than Obama saying he has a pen and a phone and can run the country without Congress. The Dems have made hay on that statement knowing their supporters (like Sullivan) won't bother to fact check it.
In fact, that’s exactly what Biden did on his first day in office! I can’t stand the fact that dems say that republicans are deplorable for doing the exact same things that they do themselves!
While I won't say I have a lot of trust in Trump when it comes to upholding the rule of law, it's ridiculous to cast him as the sole threat when his opponents are:
-Spending tens of billions without Congressional approval, in a clear vote-buying scheme
-Twisting and stretching the law to jail or bankrupt him or keep him off the ballot
-Engaging in coerced suppression if not outright censorship of opposing views
-Acting like the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist and defying court decisions clarifying that it in fact does
-Siccing federal law enforcement on regular citizens who speak out in disfavored ways
-Threatening to unilaterally remove the ability of one of the 3 branches of government to effectively check the other 2
I generally like Andrew Sullivan and think he has smart takes on a lot of things. But boy does he have TDS.
I listened to him say things he said Trump said that were obvious threats to the Constitution, and I don't remember Trump saying those things that way, which makes me think he gets his Trump takes from the liberal media, or his TDS makes him interpret things Trump says in the worst light.
Besides, we have four years of evidence of how Trump will govern. There is no evidence Trump is the authoritarian boogeyman the MSM makes him out to be.
I’m tired of the lies. Trump delegated to advisors and the states during Covid . We had it great in Florida.
If Fauci had given good advice we would have had a better Covid situation. Fauci knew more than he let on. He had paid for gain of function research at Wuhan through Ecohealth alliance .
The MSM pushed to close down to stop the spread then the MSM lost their minds and pushed to no openings til vaccines were available.
Trump started operation warp speed to get us a vaccine . He did NOT take advantage of the power. Look to ur red states and see . We r fine
LOOK AT WHO GRABBED POWER . Gavin Newsome and the blue states closed churches and schools.
I admit that this was the first and last Bari Weiss podcast for me. Too biased - and this guy learned nothing . Biden is the closest to dictator I’ve seen . He’s an old man yelling at soup
Once you accept that TFP is very left leaning, and listen knowing that bias, I find the podcasts are still worth a listen. They show me how "the other side" thinks and I find that a valuable tool as I try to pull them to the center- right.
TFP is a bunch of lefties who were mugged by reality and have the guts to point out the flaws of their side. This Honestly podcast was probably the worst one ever; most are good to brilliant. Don’t judge the whole enterprise based on this one alone.
Trump says he will be a tyrant, so he's dangerous and will undermine the rule of law and the Constitution. Obama and Biden said, "I don't have the power to do x," but then they did x, undermining the rule of law and the Constitution, but they're okay because they didn't say that that is what they would do.
I will not vote for Trump or Biden, but as I listened to Sullivan and reflected on the last 15 years, I would definitely vote for Trump over Biden if I had to. At least Trump lets us know how bad he'll be. Biden's controllers are hiding their true intentions.
They have the same flaws as him, in fact even worse because they follow through, but we're supposed to feel better because at least they're nicer about it.
I lasted 24 minutes. 24 minutes I can never get back, of listening to a man who sounded slightly deranged accuse another man of being deranged. A man who needs a mirror with the words “I should self-reflect” written above where his head would be.
I get why you did it Bari. I do. But surely you could’ve chosen someone who sounded a bit more serious.
Totally agree with previous comments about AS working on making the exact same mistake about taking Trump at his word that he did in ‘16. Worse than that, he is denigrating Trump for his potential to end the rule of law while ignoring the fact that the current administration and justice department are engaged in blatant lawfare against him while turning a blind eye to the transgressions of their own side. The rule of law is supposed to work the same for all comers.
If this is the kind nonsense that TFP plans on publishing in the quest to report on Trump more then I am hugely disappointed. Please cover Trump fairly. We need that so desperately.
How is he a coward? Because when he was on the front lines fighting for gay rights, he was brave to do so. You don't have to like him, but calling him a coward seems kinds ridiculous.
Bari (I'm a huge fan of yours and the Free Press, so please accept this as constructive criticism) - The interview would have been easier to swallow, had you not given it the headline of "Andrew Sullivan on What he got Wrong".... We listeners kept waiting for him to say WHAT HE GOT WRONG, and it never came. Bring on another writer/pundit who DID in fact get it wrong, and admits it.
Andrew Sullivan’s argument is: “He said he was going to be a tyrant in 2016, but then when he had the opportunity, he didn’t do it. But this time he definitely will!” Got it.
You beat me to it. No matter how liberals like Sullivan pull towards the truth, they snap back to form. Take the outcry in these pages over the rampant antisemitism of the Left after Oct 7th; but when a new Speaker of the House's first act is a resolution supporting Israel, they mock him as a far-right Christian zealot. Guess for which side they will vote and then not understand why the gov doesn't do more against antisemites. Or the exposure of the Trans ideology maiming children that is 100% on the Left. Or the censorship pushed only by the Left as evidenced in the Twitter files. Or the Left's coddling of crime and drug addiction while our cities spiral into the abyss. Or the undemocratic methods being used to ensure that doddering Briben will be the only choice for Dems. Bari and company will rightly denounce all of these and actually be surprised that these policies have resulted in evident misery, then march into the voting booth and "save democracy" by voting for them.
Well said, Steven. You echo my thoughts to a tee.
Prosecuting the obvious criminal activity of H. Clinton is not tyranny, it is the re-establishment of the rule of law.
Amy Marie.... bingo. brief, and perfectly said. I kind of kept waiting for Andrew to actually say he was wrong. He never really did.
I listened to Andrew list of all the awful things about Trump that he was so sure would happen but didn’t during his presidency and kudos for that. Then he listed off all the things he was sure would happen during a second Trump presidency without any awareness that if he was so wrong the first time about so many things, odds are he’s wrong this time too. All the people like Andrew who were also sure how a Biden presidency would go have been spectacularly wrong about that too. Maybe have some self reflection about why no one takes your warnings seriously. The boy who cried wolf and all that.
The guy learned nothing ! Why didn’t Bari find a better source . Someone that learned from their mistakes.
Excellent point!.... Bari, are you listening?
fair point. I kinda thought the same thing too.
But still, you have to take people at their face value at some level too. What Trump *says* he will do is disqualifying on its face IMO. Would he actually do all of them? Nah, I doubt it. But the fact he says he would is disqualifying for me.
I also won't vote for Biden or the democratic party. I want to send a message to them that they can't keep operating per usual. I absolutely do not buy the argument that not voting for the second worse is like voting for the worst. I call B.S. on that. It's *extremely* short sighted. How else is the democratic party going to get the message that they need to clean up their act and change direction.
Hello?... "McFly?....(not sure the subtle humor will be caught, BUT, excellent point, Sharon)
I appreciated listening to Andrew Sullivan vomit Rachael Maddow talking points. He re-“affirmed” my view that it wasn’t Trump that brought chaos in 2016; rather, it was the decapitated elites flailing about in search of their golden roosts.
Tony... funny, and true.
Some of it was his fault, but his opponents are responsible for their own actions too. Otherwise it's "look what you made me do."
I get the impression Andrew doesn't listen to what Trump says, he listens to what other people say Trump said. I sincerely do not know why people say he is intelligent or esteemed. Makes my brain hurt.
I always ask my liberal friends and son why, if Trump is so bad, they never quote him correctly? Sullivan is just another in the long line.
amen to that, he has never actually listen to Trump is my guess.
Sullivan lost me when he said that he doesn't have TDS, but that Trump is deranged. That is LITERALLY the definition of TDS. Seriously dude, get help.
Based on really trying to listening to the discussion, it seems like if only Trump wouldn't destroy the Constitution, everything else he did was awesome (paraphrasing...). Sigh.
When will anti-Trumpers understand (Bill Maher applies here as well), that Trump simply appeals to people that believe they are not listened to. It's not much more complicated than that. For every progressive socialist and every university know-it-all (well, they think so anyway), for every political opponent that believes that their prosecution will be "the one", and for every media pundit that tries to make things more complex and "democracy-ending" about Trump, they fail miserably and he just gets more popular.
The only way to beat Trump is to come up with better candidates that really listen to Americans and have a reasonable plan to, um, make America great again...
Steve - well said... TDS... I had to laugh when Sullivan downplayed that, and then gave a perfect example of why he himself is inflicted with the disease.
Exactly. We'll said. If we leave the political class to decide we get Biden or Newsom or Haley. Company men or women that will only pretend to care about the American people while lining their pockets with more corruption. Trump was the opposite of that.
Trump revealed the Uniparty to the American people. It has never been more obvious that we've always just had the illusion of choice. Either way we were getting the same thing. The fighting between Uniparty sides is mostly theatrics. They work across the aisle, they bend a knee. Because no one loses in the Uniparty.
Trump is not part of that club and can't be controlled. They will stop at nothing to stop him from infiltrating their club again and that includes harming the American people. Killing us even. I am not being hyperbolic. Look around at what they have already done in the attempt to get rid of him.
I think it is you who is not paying attention. Sullivan understands very well the exact reasons you stated that people like Trump. But that in no way means Sullivan's points aren't also valid.
I also don't hate all Trump policies, but being a seditionist is to me disqualifying, end of story. It doesn't matter what else Trump has to say; that disqualifies him from getting my vote anyway. He *did* encourage people to try and prevent the peaceful transfer of power. So, IMO, he is guilty of sedition.
Also, Trump is just a scumbag of a human. He disrespects literally everyone. For me, that also is disqualifying.
And no, I'm not a Biden supporter either, or a democrat.
We just said the same thing. I’m not a Trump fan either.
My primary point is that his TDS is overwhelming his ability to make rational observations.
I don't see him as having TDS. I agreed with almost every word he said. It's not deranged to recognize that Trump is in fact deranged.
TDS is real (e.g. Sam Harris), but I don't think Sullivan has TDS. I think he has a fair assessment of Trump.
Ok, we just won’t agree on the TDS point then. I still usually like Sullivan and I follow his substack, I just believe he’s had some misses lately.
Steve, the more I re-read your analysis, the more I think you are right on - in every aspect. I repeat, well said. (This, BTW, coming from a solid Right Of Center voter, who is no fan of Trump, who voted in three primaries for other candidates, but who will 3 times vote for Trump in the general election)
Same :)
Brilliant minds think alike😁
What a total waste of time. Want to understand Trump and the Trump Voters do not listen to this drivel. Sullivan clearly does not live in the real world and can not tolerate any thing outside of his little east coast bubble of liberal elites.
It was painful to listen to for sure.
It was, wasn't it? With Bari's intro, I kept WAITING for Andrew to admit he was wrong.... never heard it.
Listened to this failed analysis of Trump. Total waste of time. I was expecting a more insightful self-reflection. What we got was “Well I got it wrong the first time but not this time” and “I am a little torn because he did a lot of things right”. As to speak about the rule of law is a joke without referencing Hillary, the mockery of the contrived J6 hearing, Hunter’s laptop, Hunter himself and now POTUS’ retention of classified docs when he did not have a right to them, willful mishandling, etc and not being charged because he is dawdling old man. I understand TFP needs, and we need, insights on our political leaders I do not believe a person with TDS is the correct start.
Dave - PERFECTLY said! You echo my thoughts.
I don’t ever recall hearing Trump say he would be a dictator and I think if he had said it- dens would have made a million political ads using him saying it.
No one can argue that Trump isn’t a megalomaniac but most politicians have a bit of that- that’s why they seek office. But no mention that Trump has been royally screwed by “the rule of law”. He has had more than his fair share of witch hunts- most notably the woman who accused him of rape but didn’t know when… and he definitely wasn’t tried by a jury of his peers. The interviewer could have at least questioned Sullivan about his take on that. Overall- the interview fell short of the mark
I agree . I was hoping for more . I was hoping for an apology. I know it’s too much to ask. If Biden took an acuity exam and was found fit I would apologize . I’ve told everyone that I would take the man’s car keys if he were my grandpa .
The only time I recall Trump saying he would be a dictator is when he said he would be a dictator on day 1 and issue a number of Executive Orders to close the border. That is no different than Obama saying he has a pen and a phone and can run the country without Congress. The Dems have made hay on that statement knowing their supporters (like Sullivan) won't bother to fact check it.
In fact, that’s exactly what Biden did on his first day in office! I can’t stand the fact that dems say that republicans are deplorable for doing the exact same things that they do themselves!
100% accurate.
It's more rule by law than rule of law.
While I won't say I have a lot of trust in Trump when it comes to upholding the rule of law, it's ridiculous to cast him as the sole threat when his opponents are:
-Spending tens of billions without Congressional approval, in a clear vote-buying scheme
-Twisting and stretching the law to jail or bankrupt him or keep him off the ballot
-Engaging in coerced suppression if not outright censorship of opposing views
-Acting like the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist and defying court decisions clarifying that it in fact does
-Siccing federal law enforcement on regular citizens who speak out in disfavored ways
-Threatening to unilaterally remove the ability of one of the 3 branches of government to effectively check the other 2
I generally like Andrew Sullivan and think he has smart takes on a lot of things. But boy does he have TDS.
I listened to him say things he said Trump said that were obvious threats to the Constitution, and I don't remember Trump saying those things that way, which makes me think he gets his Trump takes from the liberal media, or his TDS makes him interpret things Trump says in the worst light.
Besides, we have four years of evidence of how Trump will govern. There is no evidence Trump is the authoritarian boogeyman the MSM makes him out to be.
I agree. I can’t find where Trump said many of these things and the border wall was started but was sued by liberals almost out of existence.
The states that had so much crime ( George Floyd) were run by democrats and Trump stayed away . States rights r important and Trump was no dictator.
I’m tired of the lies. Trump delegated to advisors and the states during Covid . We had it great in Florida.
If Fauci had given good advice we would have had a better Covid situation. Fauci knew more than he let on. He had paid for gain of function research at Wuhan through Ecohealth alliance .
The MSM pushed to close down to stop the spread then the MSM lost their minds and pushed to no openings til vaccines were available.
Trump started operation warp speed to get us a vaccine . He did NOT take advantage of the power. Look to ur red states and see . We r fine
LOOK AT WHO GRABBED POWER . Gavin Newsome and the blue states closed churches and schools.
I admit that this was the first and last Bari Weiss podcast for me. Too biased - and this guy learned nothing . Biden is the closest to dictator I’ve seen . He’s an old man yelling at soup
Once you accept that TFP is very left leaning, and listen knowing that bias, I find the podcasts are still worth a listen. They show me how "the other side" thinks and I find that a valuable tool as I try to pull them to the center- right.
TFP is a bunch of lefties who were mugged by reality and have the guts to point out the flaws of their side. This Honestly podcast was probably the worst one ever; most are good to brilliant. Don’t judge the whole enterprise based on this one alone.
Trump says he will be a tyrant, so he's dangerous and will undermine the rule of law and the Constitution. Obama and Biden said, "I don't have the power to do x," but then they did x, undermining the rule of law and the Constitution, but they're okay because they didn't say that that is what they would do.
I will not vote for Trump or Biden, but as I listened to Sullivan and reflected on the last 15 years, I would definitely vote for Trump over Biden if I had to. At least Trump lets us know how bad he'll be. Biden's controllers are hiding their true intentions.
They have the same flaws as him, in fact even worse because they follow through, but we're supposed to feel better because at least they're nicer about it.
Sorry, I dropped out after 10 minutes. Sullivan is a very silly man.
I lasted 24 minutes. 24 minutes I can never get back, of listening to a man who sounded slightly deranged accuse another man of being deranged. A man who needs a mirror with the words “I should self-reflect” written above where his head would be.
I get why you did it Bari. I do. But surely you could’ve chosen someone who sounded a bit more serious.
U lasted longer than I 😂
smart man it did not get better.
Totally agree with previous comments about AS working on making the exact same mistake about taking Trump at his word that he did in ‘16. Worse than that, he is denigrating Trump for his potential to end the rule of law while ignoring the fact that the current administration and justice department are engaged in blatant lawfare against him while turning a blind eye to the transgressions of their own side. The rule of law is supposed to work the same for all comers.
(Full disclosure-Republican, not a Trump fan)
If this is the kind nonsense that TFP plans on publishing in the quest to report on Trump more then I am hugely disappointed. Please cover Trump fairly. We need that so desperately.
Andrew Sullivan is a coward alarmist… deeply immersed in his conspiracy theories about Trump.
How is he a coward? Because when he was on the front lines fighting for gay rights, he was brave to do so. You don't have to like him, but calling him a coward seems kinds ridiculous.
Bari (I'm a huge fan of yours and the Free Press, so please accept this as constructive criticism) - The interview would have been easier to swallow, had you not given it the headline of "Andrew Sullivan on What he got Wrong".... We listeners kept waiting for him to say WHAT HE GOT WRONG, and it never came. Bring on another writer/pundit who DID in fact get it wrong, and admits it.