The debate about immigration brings out some of the deepest anxieties and biggest disagreements in America. And right now, all of it feels like it’s coming to a head. In 2022, there were over 2.76 million illegal migrant crossings at the Southwest border. That’s roughly the population of Chicago, America’s third largest city. To address this unprecedented surge, President Biden recently announced tougher restrictions and made a show of visiting the border himself.
I agree with Steve Mumford below.. this libertarian is not living in the real world so why bother?
Here are my questions.. without the debate form drama..
1. There was a bipartisan bill derailed by some "at the end of the spectrum" R's .. what was in it, and is it revivable? Why or why not?
2. When Alex talks about "immigrants" who is he talking about.. some average of MS-13 folks, general border-crossers, and Asian MDs and tech folks? How can there possibly be a meaningful average of folks like that?
3. No one questioned Alex's math. He argued that, say, 20 out of 100 immigrants commit crimes compared to say more 30 out of 100 natives. But people who say "we're stuck with 30 per 100 already, why let in 20% times whatever number of new folks more?" And being wary of newly admitted (or not legally admitted) criminals is definitely a function of neighborhood and if we average across the US the impacts, of course, will disappear.
4. No one discussed pressures on housing, the environment, etc. of unlimited new people coming to this country.
5. And a truly weird wonky suggestion. Our neighbor Canada doesn't seem to have the same partisan drama. Let's just adopt what they have.. adjusted for our country.. but the adjustments have to be agreed to by the majority of both parties in Congress. I wonder what that would look like?
Why enlist a Cato Institute libertarian to defend essentially an open border?
Libertarians are a tiny political minority in both the country and the government. Therefor Alex’s prescriptions to jettison the welfare state and legalize drugs are simply an eccentric pie in the sky; without adopting a libertarian world view, which will never happen on the US, the continued current gush of illegals will overwhelm the US economically as well as culturally.
I felt the discussion was edited to Alex’s benefit; Jessica should have been allowed to answer many of his assertions, without the moderator inserting himself or curtailing the dialog; for example, if Alex essentially endorses open borders, then how does the US reap the benefits of 2nd generation of assimilated immigrants if the economy can never keep up with the constant influx of new immigrants?
It’s the Democrats who have created the current border crisis, not libertarians; so why not have had the debate with a Democrat for open borders?
Is it because once again Bari is hesitant to alienate her moderate Democrat base?
There's lots of discussion seemingly everywhere about illegal immigration, arguing that it either needs to be stopped or transformed. Usually, as in this podcast episode, there's some lip service paid to our "broken" legal immigration system. But, one thing I rarely hear about is how our legal immigration system is actually broken. There was a This American Life story about the nightmare a winner of the so-called Green Card Lottery had to go through to actually get his green card. There were some stories of the broken promises made to Afghanis and Iraqis who helped the US military. But that's about it.
As a far more mundane illustration of how broken our legal immigration system is, consider that my wife applied for a visa for her brother and his family. They are a white-collar, middle class family and their kids are all college-bound, so not likely candidates to become financial burdens. The application for this type of visa costs over $500 (or did at the time) and included a "guarantee" that we would be financially responsible for her brother's family. At the time, it was estimated that this application would get processed (not approved - just processed) in about 5 years. That was 7 years ago. The current estimated processing time for our application has changed to 12 years.
So, there is an example of "legal" immigration - fill out the application, make the guarantees, pay the fee, and wait - forever. I suppose if you're a person that opposes legal immigration, this type of disfunction is a positive.
Why don’t we allow state governors to choose the amount of immigrants they will accept and adjust federal immigration policy around that?
The states would be responsible for Medicaid and unemployment costs for the first 5-10 years regardless of where the migrants end up.
If Texas wants zero and California wants 5 million, let’s make that happen. Citizens can decide the amount of immigration that is beneficial by voting or moving.
If the benefits of immigration outweigh the cost, pro immigrant states will win and vice versa.
It also may be the case that certain labor environments support immigration and some don’t and the Governor’s can adjust based on their perception of local conditions. If they are wrong, citizens can vote them out.
Politically it allows conservatives to limit immigration to the states they inhabit and liberals to have unfettered immigration in the states they reside in.
Has anyone ever heard of this being considered or seen another country with a similar system?
Man, this was good but I disagree with Alex for so many reasons. We have had over 5 million illegals come over our border from over 160 different countries in the last 2 years. They are not vetted so we have no idea who is getting into our country. It is disturbing. I find it interesting that it wasn't mentioned how many MILLIONS and MILLIONS of US dollars are being sent to Mexico from these illegal immigrants. They are working for cash and not paying taxes. It IS a huge problem. I can't tell you how many hispanic laborers that we hire ask us to pay them in cash and if we can't do that they won't work with us. That is a fact! They undercut American laborers when they get the jobs. I agree that there is a huge shortage of Americans who are starting businesses as roofers, painters, landscapers, drywallers,etc. etc. but I hate it that immigrants are not following our tax laws.
We are a sinking ship as we bow down to give these people welfare benefits. It is ridiculous. They should not be here if they cannot support themselves.
Assimilation is another issue I get frustrated with. I seriously would never immigrate to a foreign country without learning the language, and respecting that country's laws. Our schools are being overrun by non english speaking children so teachers then are struggling to take care of students needs. Our english students are failing miserably yet we are putting millions of dollars into taking care of illegal immigrant students. I could go on and on.
I was completely unfulfilled and downright irritated by this podcast. I’d ask that it not open with talk of the current border crisis but never address anything but what the design of the overall / long term immigration system should be. It sounded like 3 people debating whether the crashing plane is blue or green.
The current crisis at the US southern border is because the border is not intact. It’s not being protected as a border. The crisis is the flood of people rushing the border from all over that is being facilitated by Drug Cartels, along with massive amounts of fentanyl, human trafficking/sex slaves, and scamming claims of oppressed people seeking amnesty from oppressive governments.
Yep, there are good people who just want to raise families and make better lives for themselves and their progeny. And I think of these immigrants (who I’ve expressed to my fellow Conservative friends who agree) as hard working, nuclear family dedicated, generally very religious people who I actually welcome with a couple of constraints. These are:
1. They’re not following the law. I have to follow every law and I want everyone else to. And the laws have to be enforced or we don’t have a country. The border is not being enforced !!
2. We can’t take in everyone on earth who wants to come here. Sorry, but compassion begins at home and we have limits on our resources.
So the discussion completely avoided why the CURRENT crisis continues unabated and it completely ignored the COST of the incoming crime and drugs to US people - including lost lives and overburden on our already strained systems. The rush on our border launched the day Biden took office and he has deliberately ignored it as the flood has grown exponentially. Biden has sent the quiet message “anyone who wants in, Welcome”
As the Dem / Left wants to decry “the wall”, I’ve got news for you. I hate the idea of a wall. But it’s absence is seen and been treated as a sign that says “everyone come in”, deliberately encouraged by Biden et. al.
Secure the border first, and then the rest of us will work with you to decide what color to paint the airplane. THAT, btw has been the Right’s position all along.
All told, I’m sorry to say that the podcast was not worth listening to.
The immigration system isn't broken..it isn't enforced.
I agree with Steve Mumford below.. this libertarian is not living in the real world so why bother?
Here are my questions.. without the debate form drama..
1. There was a bipartisan bill derailed by some "at the end of the spectrum" R's .. what was in it, and is it revivable? Why or why not?
2. When Alex talks about "immigrants" who is he talking about.. some average of MS-13 folks, general border-crossers, and Asian MDs and tech folks? How can there possibly be a meaningful average of folks like that?
3. No one questioned Alex's math. He argued that, say, 20 out of 100 immigrants commit crimes compared to say more 30 out of 100 natives. But people who say "we're stuck with 30 per 100 already, why let in 20% times whatever number of new folks more?" And being wary of newly admitted (or not legally admitted) criminals is definitely a function of neighborhood and if we average across the US the impacts, of course, will disappear.
4. No one discussed pressures on housing, the environment, etc. of unlimited new people coming to this country.
5. And a truly weird wonky suggestion. Our neighbor Canada doesn't seem to have the same partisan drama. Let's just adopt what they have.. adjusted for our country.. but the adjustments have to be agreed to by the majority of both parties in Congress. I wonder what that would look like?
This debate was both interesting and irritating.
Why enlist a Cato Institute libertarian to defend essentially an open border?
Libertarians are a tiny political minority in both the country and the government. Therefor Alex’s prescriptions to jettison the welfare state and legalize drugs are simply an eccentric pie in the sky; without adopting a libertarian world view, which will never happen on the US, the continued current gush of illegals will overwhelm the US economically as well as culturally.
I felt the discussion was edited to Alex’s benefit; Jessica should have been allowed to answer many of his assertions, without the moderator inserting himself or curtailing the dialog; for example, if Alex essentially endorses open borders, then how does the US reap the benefits of 2nd generation of assimilated immigrants if the economy can never keep up with the constant influx of new immigrants?
It’s the Democrats who have created the current border crisis, not libertarians; so why not have had the debate with a Democrat for open borders?
Is it because once again Bari is hesitant to alienate her moderate Democrat base?
There's lots of discussion seemingly everywhere about illegal immigration, arguing that it either needs to be stopped or transformed. Usually, as in this podcast episode, there's some lip service paid to our "broken" legal immigration system. But, one thing I rarely hear about is how our legal immigration system is actually broken. There was a This American Life story about the nightmare a winner of the so-called Green Card Lottery had to go through to actually get his green card. There were some stories of the broken promises made to Afghanis and Iraqis who helped the US military. But that's about it.
As a far more mundane illustration of how broken our legal immigration system is, consider that my wife applied for a visa for her brother and his family. They are a white-collar, middle class family and their kids are all college-bound, so not likely candidates to become financial burdens. The application for this type of visa costs over $500 (or did at the time) and included a "guarantee" that we would be financially responsible for her brother's family. At the time, it was estimated that this application would get processed (not approved - just processed) in about 5 years. That was 7 years ago. The current estimated processing time for our application has changed to 12 years.
So, there is an example of "legal" immigration - fill out the application, make the guarantees, pay the fee, and wait - forever. I suppose if you're a person that opposes legal immigration, this type of disfunction is a positive.
Why don’t we allow state governors to choose the amount of immigrants they will accept and adjust federal immigration policy around that?
The states would be responsible for Medicaid and unemployment costs for the first 5-10 years regardless of where the migrants end up.
If Texas wants zero and California wants 5 million, let’s make that happen. Citizens can decide the amount of immigration that is beneficial by voting or moving.
If the benefits of immigration outweigh the cost, pro immigrant states will win and vice versa.
It also may be the case that certain labor environments support immigration and some don’t and the Governor’s can adjust based on their perception of local conditions. If they are wrong, citizens can vote them out.
Politically it allows conservatives to limit immigration to the states they inhabit and liberals to have unfettered immigration in the states they reside in.
Has anyone ever heard of this being considered or seen another country with a similar system?
Man, this was good but I disagree with Alex for so many reasons. We have had over 5 million illegals come over our border from over 160 different countries in the last 2 years. They are not vetted so we have no idea who is getting into our country. It is disturbing. I find it interesting that it wasn't mentioned how many MILLIONS and MILLIONS of US dollars are being sent to Mexico from these illegal immigrants. They are working for cash and not paying taxes. It IS a huge problem. I can't tell you how many hispanic laborers that we hire ask us to pay them in cash and if we can't do that they won't work with us. That is a fact! They undercut American laborers when they get the jobs. I agree that there is a huge shortage of Americans who are starting businesses as roofers, painters, landscapers, drywallers,etc. etc. but I hate it that immigrants are not following our tax laws.
We are a sinking ship as we bow down to give these people welfare benefits. It is ridiculous. They should not be here if they cannot support themselves.
Assimilation is another issue I get frustrated with. I seriously would never immigrate to a foreign country without learning the language, and respecting that country's laws. Our schools are being overrun by non english speaking children so teachers then are struggling to take care of students needs. Our english students are failing miserably yet we are putting millions of dollars into taking care of illegal immigrant students. I could go on and on.
Awful "Moderator". Weak back and forth .....but nice try !! needs to be revisited.
What specific immigration reforms is the administration looking to Congress ,as a solution to our "secure border" controversy?
Mayor Adams has called for a border czar
I thought that we had one,as Mike Pence was the Covid Czar
No "journalist " asked her when she was in Arizona about the 100 mile drive to the border
I was completely unfulfilled and downright irritated by this podcast. I’d ask that it not open with talk of the current border crisis but never address anything but what the design of the overall / long term immigration system should be. It sounded like 3 people debating whether the crashing plane is blue or green.
The current crisis at the US southern border is because the border is not intact. It’s not being protected as a border. The crisis is the flood of people rushing the border from all over that is being facilitated by Drug Cartels, along with massive amounts of fentanyl, human trafficking/sex slaves, and scamming claims of oppressed people seeking amnesty from oppressive governments.
Yep, there are good people who just want to raise families and make better lives for themselves and their progeny. And I think of these immigrants (who I’ve expressed to my fellow Conservative friends who agree) as hard working, nuclear family dedicated, generally very religious people who I actually welcome with a couple of constraints. These are:
1. They’re not following the law. I have to follow every law and I want everyone else to. And the laws have to be enforced or we don’t have a country. The border is not being enforced !!
2. We can’t take in everyone on earth who wants to come here. Sorry, but compassion begins at home and we have limits on our resources.
So the discussion completely avoided why the CURRENT crisis continues unabated and it completely ignored the COST of the incoming crime and drugs to US people - including lost lives and overburden on our already strained systems. The rush on our border launched the day Biden took office and he has deliberately ignored it as the flood has grown exponentially. Biden has sent the quiet message “anyone who wants in, Welcome”
As the Dem / Left wants to decry “the wall”, I’ve got news for you. I hate the idea of a wall. But it’s absence is seen and been treated as a sign that says “everyone come in”, deliberately encouraged by Biden et. al.
Secure the border first, and then the rest of us will work with you to decide what color to paint the airplane. THAT, btw has been the Right’s position all along.
All told, I’m sorry to say that the podcast was not worth listening to.