Over the last decade, the internet has devolved into a playground for influencers who sell and show off anything and everything you could ever imagine. But my guest today, Helen Lewis, says it isn’t all just superficial TikTok stars telling you how to properly contour your face to look like a Kardashian. Helen argues that the internet has actually become a digital revival tent, and that it’s full of new gurus. In fact, she says, we’re living in a golden age of gurus.
Helen Lewis is a writer for The Atlantic and the host of the new podcast for the BBC, The New Gurus, which explores what it means to be a 21st century guru and how the internet got completely overtaken by them. She profiles productivity hackers, dating coaches, wellness influencers, crypto bros, diversity experts, and heterodox intellectual heroes, all of whom are making a living captivating millions of people with their unconventional ideas (like drinking your own urine to get healthy or paying $5000 to go to a dinner where you’ll be told you’re racist.)
So today, a conversation with Helen about why these figures are so appealing right now, what it is about our current moment that is so ripe for people to believe in the most outlandish ideas, the limits of individual experts, why we still need institutions, and what, if anything, she’s learned about fighting our worst instincts that the internet makes so easy to indulge.
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Oh boy, another tough listen. I get that Bari’s interviewing style is ‘let them talk’. But Lewis just constantly says misinformed and untrue things. She says that ‘right-wingers’ don’t trust Fauci for political reasons, for example. Well, anyone who’s payed attention to Fauci’s constant flip flopping, lies and (successfull) attempts to silence the opinions of other scientists, such as Jay Bhattacharya should NOT trust him, if they’re thinking at all. Really wish Bari would push back a bit harder
I’ve been sensing a Bari pivot towards the establishment in the past few podcasts and it made me wonder-did the FBI put a horse head in her and Nellie’s bed because of the Twitter files?
But after this podcast I’m thinking it’s because she's worried she'll become a ‘guru’ and perhaps forcing some establishment broccoli down her contrarian subscriber's throats will help remedy that?
I’m not sure I buy the guru argument in the first place. It sounds to me like sophomoric hero worship. A British newscaster finds Jordan Peterson’s work amazing but then he sees mean tweets so has to disavow him?? Can’t he just treat Peterson like a human who has flaws and take the good with the bad? Since when did liking someone’s work mean you have to care about anything else in their life? At the end, Helen (who I’m convinced is really Emma Thompson) suggests we direct our need to follow toward dead authors. Why because they can remain a figment of your imagination and not challenge you with mean tweets? If you need to follow someone who cannot disappoint you by being human why not pick a classic that has stood the test of time like Jesus or the Buddha?
Bari, no one here sees you as a guru. We subscribe to you and the Free Press to hear stories and perspectives we can’t get anywhere else. When local news died so did the feeder system to the coasts about what is really happening in 'fly over' country. We want you to find those stories and the reporters who are out there in these places, without fancy college degrees (remember what you said on Bill Maher) who can share these perspectives.
Do more debates! Have one on energy. Are we really jumping off a cliff by forcing our grids onto renewables?
But Emily Oster, Ken Burns, Helen Lewis, with all due respect...we can get that perspective anywhere.
Still love you… and especially Nellie. OK…maybe Nellie is my guru ;-)