I always cackle when people say the $60 billion is a great investment in our national security on the cheap.
Yeah it would be……..IF IT WORKED.
Does anyone think the dipshits who have lost 9 consecutive wars are going to defeat Putin with $60 billion? No they’re just going to lose $60 billion and kill 100,000 more people.
My dream is for them to get the $60 billion so that 3 months form now when it’s gone and nothing is accomplished we can ask them
Bret Stephens jumped the shark years ago when he took his toys and went to the NYT from the WSJ because no one was buying his load of malarkey there anymore. And then he went to the NYT and the commenters were even more vicious.
But at heart he’s a war monger and has never seen a conflict he didn’t want the US to get into or pay for. He laughably states Europe should provide the economic assistance yet plumps for us to give $60 billion of which much goes to ….economic assistance like pensions. All the while we are being invaded, our population is being killed by illegal alien men and our population is struggling from bidenflation. No thanks Mr expert.
I'm definitely on Team Colby here. We need to deal with what is real, not what we think is ideal.
Ignoring Tucker Carlson because you don't like what he's saying is stupid, because a lot of people ARE listening to him, even if they don't all agree with him. As I've pointed out before, if only 5% of Americans like Putin, where are all these Putin-lovers the Left screeching on about, who according to the TFP's Oliver Wiseman and Peter Savodnik comprise most of conservatives?
"Bret Stephens: Well, America’s role should be to assist the Ukrainians militarily, primarily. "
Oh, FFS, Bret Stephen . Ukraine is as corrupt a place as can be found. Their stage clown president has cancelled elections, barred opposition parties, fired the Ukraine general who was holding ceasefire/settlement negotiations with his Russian counterpart.
American taxpayers aren't merely paying for weapons that our MIC sells, it sends CASH to pay the Ukraine government and its pensions. That cash leaks into the hands of the usual suspects. There is no accountting and not accountability. It is a slush fund for a society the bulk of which is as corrupt as you can imagine.
Let the Euros pay. They can buy from us and send the guns and tanks to the Uk's. And send cash to the thieves there.
Stephens trots out the failed dominos theory that got us into every conflict since Korea. It’s been a lie every time. Bret also claimed that victory is a decisive defeat of the Russian military. Guess what Bret 1 trillion dollars won’t defeat the Russians militarily because Ukraine doesn’t have the manpower to do it there is only one country that might have that ability and it’s not certain that we could even pull it off. So taking his theory to its logical conclusion is American boys dying in Ukraine. This is exactly what happened in Vietnam. The French were bankrolled by the United States in the war they engaged in during the 50’s only to turn tail and run. (The French will always run). So it was dead Americans way more than dead Frenchmen for another decade in that failure of the domino theory. All HoChiMinh wanted was to have a sovereign state free of the French he even adopted Jeffersonian principles but the CIA lied to Truman (see the connection?) about HoChiMinh even though we funded him during WWII as he fought against the Japanese. We have once again backed a corrupt government that is illegitimate. We engineered a coup in 2014 to overthrow a democratically elect president and now the President has just suspended elections so he is a tyrant now. We held our 1864 national elections during our civil war. Nobody will ever tell you why it’s in our national security interest to waste treasure and then blood in Ukraine.
When it comes right down to it, we don’t have the money. I am not interested in my grandchildren trying to claw their way out of this pit of debt we are leaving them. That is totally aside from the fact we baited Putin into this war and highly discouraged any negotiations to end it before it became a blood bath.
I disagree with those that say Bret Stephens jumped the shark. He is thoughtful and I appreciate his sentiments.
Here is what virtually no one can explain to me.
Putin is a horrible person. As horrible as any other tyrant in human history? Maybe, but certainly there are worse. Putin would make the top 20.
At the same time, can't I recognize that Ukraine is an incredibly corrupt government and I don't want to spend money propping them up without being accused of being a Nazi?
I feel horribly for the Ukrainian citizen. At the same time, strategically I see know reason economically or militarily to prop the country up. Does it change things if Putin runs it or a corrupt Ukrainian government?
A lot of the hate I see in Europe and other foreign countries for Trump has roots in the fact that the US spends a lot of money in their country when they should be fending for themselves. During and Post WW2, the US built the roads they drive on and rebuilt the buildings they live in. The US has been their protector militarily. When was the last all Italian built fighter plane which is ground breakingly innovative you remember being built? Where is the revolution in energy production in the EU? Where is the general engineering innnovation? Why is the center of development/innovation in SF/Bay Area and not in Brussels? America certainly has lower math and science standardized test scores.
The hate for Trump is more about envy and jealousy so they lash out and call him "Hitler", yet they want America to foot the bill to get rid of the Russian Hitler, Putin.
Time for them to get out of their teenage years and fend for themselves.
What I find shocking about Bret Stevens is how easy he makes it seem. That Ukranian is going to sweep through the mind fields against an entrenched enemy with superior numbers. Stevens has become such a pompous ass since moving from the WSJ to the New York Times, but a man has to keep his job.
As a realist, Ukraine tried to breach those lines this year and failed miserably. They are chewing through a generation of its best, and for what end? To recapture four territories that are pro-Russian in outlook. It's time to start working toward a deal where Russia keeps the territories won and Ukraine enters into a pact with NATO or the EU.
I highly doubt Russia will move toward Poland or the Baltics, but if they do, we must have a debate if we all want to risk the potential of all dying to stop it. I appreciate hearing Elbride Colby's thoughts, especially the ones that hurt Bret's feelings. This is serious business, and guys who write for a newspaper are not people I respect when it comes to getting a good outcome. Great interview, Bari.
I really get a kick out of the notion that running out of ammunition in Ukraine will send a strong message to the Millenarian Chinese Communist Psychopaths that will get them to back off of their 1,000 year plan for global dominance.
Send some speech writers and turn everything else over to the Europeans. It's in their backyard, and if it really bothers them, they will do something about it.
I think it's rude and disgusting that Ms Weiss says "the collapse of courage and moral clarity, if you want to use that term, I use it advisedly, among a terrifying number of Republicans." We republicans, we Americans, we Patriots are just sick of people dying for no reason and done with our money used in corrupt fashion! The Ukrainians cannot win this war that's the reality and everybody who actually looks at it from a lens of reality knows that, no matter how much money we throw at it. And why are we so worried about other people's borders when we can't even keep our own borders safe, when terrorists and God knows who else are slinking into our country and making it unsafe for our citizens! There's only so much money in the pot and to keep printing it and printing it is not the answer to a healthy economy. So we should collapse our economy to save a country on the other side of the world while leaving our country open to Invasion and Chaos? I think our "courage and moral character" is doing just fine! How many Democrats do you see in the military fighting for the freedoms and Liberties of this country? No most of them are Republicans who are full of "courage" and love their country! That's a fact look it up Bari Weiss!! And in terms of our "moral clarity", who is it that wants people to die for an unwinning cause? Literally they cannot beat Russia and we don't have the money to keep throwing at them while an entire generation of Ukrainianian men and women are dead! What happens to the Ukrainian culture when there's nothing left of it? We should be trying to negotiate peace in the region! And stop pushing Ukraine NATO inclusion. Would you want enemy weapons on your border? Look what happened in Cuba! We need to stop creating all these wars around the world just to feed the War Machine. There are much more "moral" ways for America to earn a living and to fill our coffers and to become the Beacon of Light for the world again! We can't help anyone if we have collapsed into chaos and economic destruction. Stop the flow of money now as it's only a corrupt way of filling the pockets of the Democrat swamp and Rinos anyway and you know it Bari Weiss!
Stephens states, "...he is speaking to a society, to a country, or to at least a demographic that has lost its ability to think of the possibility of American success." The irony of a NY Times reporter.
Where has the $113 Billion to Ukraine gone? Given the long history of rampant corruption there I am worried we are just supporting more corrupt oligarchs. We seem to do that in every "necessary war". (Remember Afghanistan?)
"Bret worries that the world is on the precipice of World War III."
"$100 billion isn’t what it used to be"
Too late Bret. How many countries are already directly or indirectly involved? All of NATO, China, Korea, Russia, and who knows how many more. Call it a World War or not, the key military players are all there.
If $100 billion is just pocket change, then let the other NATO members pick up the tab.
Support for this war is waning in the US because there is no end in sight, and we already have more debt than we can reasonably deal with. If there were clear objectives, and NATO members were at the forefront of the effort and putting in maximal effort, then most Americans would continue to support it. But when NATO members don't even honor their financial commitments, and no NATO boots are on the ground, it is clear that this war could easily be lost. And what is the point of spending billions of dollars when you get the same result by spending nothing?
Currently there are roughly 35,000 homeless veterans in America; why don’t we take care of these folks before we go helping someone who has never put him or herself in harm’s way for our freedoms.
The thing that stuck with me in this exchange was the discussion of the nostalgia for the international and domestic conditions of the 1990s, which seems to be a factor for many politicians, as well as the public at large. I suspect that many people don’t realize what an unusual time that was. The U.S. had no powerful international adversaries, and almost everyone thought that the world was on a peaceful trajectory that would involve significantly more international cooperation and lower defense commitments. But really, that period was an anomaly. The enemies of modern life have regained their energy and seem determined, again, to upset a world order that has generated unprecedented freedom and prosperity.
I always cackle when people say the $60 billion is a great investment in our national security on the cheap.
Yeah it would be……..IF IT WORKED.
Does anyone think the dipshits who have lost 9 consecutive wars are going to defeat Putin with $60 billion? No they’re just going to lose $60 billion and kill 100,000 more people.
My dream is for them to get the $60 billion so that 3 months form now when it’s gone and nothing is accomplished we can ask them
“So, how’d it go? Pretty good?”
Bret Stephens jumped the shark years ago when he took his toys and went to the NYT from the WSJ because no one was buying his load of malarkey there anymore. And then he went to the NYT and the commenters were even more vicious.
But at heart he’s a war monger and has never seen a conflict he didn’t want the US to get into or pay for. He laughably states Europe should provide the economic assistance yet plumps for us to give $60 billion of which much goes to ….economic assistance like pensions. All the while we are being invaded, our population is being killed by illegal alien men and our population is struggling from bidenflation. No thanks Mr expert.
I'm definitely on Team Colby here. We need to deal with what is real, not what we think is ideal.
Ignoring Tucker Carlson because you don't like what he's saying is stupid, because a lot of people ARE listening to him, even if they don't all agree with him. As I've pointed out before, if only 5% of Americans like Putin, where are all these Putin-lovers the Left screeching on about, who according to the TFP's Oliver Wiseman and Peter Savodnik comprise most of conservatives?
"Bret Stephens: Well, America’s role should be to assist the Ukrainians militarily, primarily. "
Oh, FFS, Bret Stephen . Ukraine is as corrupt a place as can be found. Their stage clown president has cancelled elections, barred opposition parties, fired the Ukraine general who was holding ceasefire/settlement negotiations with his Russian counterpart.
American taxpayers aren't merely paying for weapons that our MIC sells, it sends CASH to pay the Ukraine government and its pensions. That cash leaks into the hands of the usual suspects. There is no accountting and not accountability. It is a slush fund for a society the bulk of which is as corrupt as you can imagine.
Let the Euros pay. They can buy from us and send the guns and tanks to the Uk's. And send cash to the thieves there.
Stephens trots out the failed dominos theory that got us into every conflict since Korea. It’s been a lie every time. Bret also claimed that victory is a decisive defeat of the Russian military. Guess what Bret 1 trillion dollars won’t defeat the Russians militarily because Ukraine doesn’t have the manpower to do it there is only one country that might have that ability and it’s not certain that we could even pull it off. So taking his theory to its logical conclusion is American boys dying in Ukraine. This is exactly what happened in Vietnam. The French were bankrolled by the United States in the war they engaged in during the 50’s only to turn tail and run. (The French will always run). So it was dead Americans way more than dead Frenchmen for another decade in that failure of the domino theory. All HoChiMinh wanted was to have a sovereign state free of the French he even adopted Jeffersonian principles but the CIA lied to Truman (see the connection?) about HoChiMinh even though we funded him during WWII as he fought against the Japanese. We have once again backed a corrupt government that is illegitimate. We engineered a coup in 2014 to overthrow a democratically elect president and now the President has just suspended elections so he is a tyrant now. We held our 1864 national elections during our civil war. Nobody will ever tell you why it’s in our national security interest to waste treasure and then blood in Ukraine.
When it comes right down to it, we don’t have the money. I am not interested in my grandchildren trying to claw their way out of this pit of debt we are leaving them. That is totally aside from the fact we baited Putin into this war and highly discouraged any negotiations to end it before it became a blood bath.
I disagree with those that say Bret Stephens jumped the shark. He is thoughtful and I appreciate his sentiments.
Here is what virtually no one can explain to me.
Putin is a horrible person. As horrible as any other tyrant in human history? Maybe, but certainly there are worse. Putin would make the top 20.
At the same time, can't I recognize that Ukraine is an incredibly corrupt government and I don't want to spend money propping them up without being accused of being a Nazi?
I feel horribly for the Ukrainian citizen. At the same time, strategically I see know reason economically or militarily to prop the country up. Does it change things if Putin runs it or a corrupt Ukrainian government?
A lot of the hate I see in Europe and other foreign countries for Trump has roots in the fact that the US spends a lot of money in their country when they should be fending for themselves. During and Post WW2, the US built the roads they drive on and rebuilt the buildings they live in. The US has been their protector militarily. When was the last all Italian built fighter plane which is ground breakingly innovative you remember being built? Where is the revolution in energy production in the EU? Where is the general engineering innnovation? Why is the center of development/innovation in SF/Bay Area and not in Brussels? America certainly has lower math and science standardized test scores.
The hate for Trump is more about envy and jealousy so they lash out and call him "Hitler", yet they want America to foot the bill to get rid of the Russian Hitler, Putin.
Time for them to get out of their teenage years and fend for themselves.
What I find shocking about Bret Stevens is how easy he makes it seem. That Ukranian is going to sweep through the mind fields against an entrenched enemy with superior numbers. Stevens has become such a pompous ass since moving from the WSJ to the New York Times, but a man has to keep his job.
As a realist, Ukraine tried to breach those lines this year and failed miserably. They are chewing through a generation of its best, and for what end? To recapture four territories that are pro-Russian in outlook. It's time to start working toward a deal where Russia keeps the territories won and Ukraine enters into a pact with NATO or the EU.
I highly doubt Russia will move toward Poland or the Baltics, but if they do, we must have a debate if we all want to risk the potential of all dying to stop it. I appreciate hearing Elbride Colby's thoughts, especially the ones that hurt Bret's feelings. This is serious business, and guys who write for a newspaper are not people I respect when it comes to getting a good outcome. Great interview, Bari.
I really get a kick out of the notion that running out of ammunition in Ukraine will send a strong message to the Millenarian Chinese Communist Psychopaths that will get them to back off of their 1,000 year plan for global dominance.
The short answer is no.
Send some speech writers and turn everything else over to the Europeans. It's in their backyard, and if it really bothers them, they will do something about it.
I think it's rude and disgusting that Ms Weiss says "the collapse of courage and moral clarity, if you want to use that term, I use it advisedly, among a terrifying number of Republicans." We republicans, we Americans, we Patriots are just sick of people dying for no reason and done with our money used in corrupt fashion! The Ukrainians cannot win this war that's the reality and everybody who actually looks at it from a lens of reality knows that, no matter how much money we throw at it. And why are we so worried about other people's borders when we can't even keep our own borders safe, when terrorists and God knows who else are slinking into our country and making it unsafe for our citizens! There's only so much money in the pot and to keep printing it and printing it is not the answer to a healthy economy. So we should collapse our economy to save a country on the other side of the world while leaving our country open to Invasion and Chaos? I think our "courage and moral character" is doing just fine! How many Democrats do you see in the military fighting for the freedoms and Liberties of this country? No most of them are Republicans who are full of "courage" and love their country! That's a fact look it up Bari Weiss!! And in terms of our "moral clarity", who is it that wants people to die for an unwinning cause? Literally they cannot beat Russia and we don't have the money to keep throwing at them while an entire generation of Ukrainianian men and women are dead! What happens to the Ukrainian culture when there's nothing left of it? We should be trying to negotiate peace in the region! And stop pushing Ukraine NATO inclusion. Would you want enemy weapons on your border? Look what happened in Cuba! We need to stop creating all these wars around the world just to feed the War Machine. There are much more "moral" ways for America to earn a living and to fill our coffers and to become the Beacon of Light for the world again! We can't help anyone if we have collapsed into chaos and economic destruction. Stop the flow of money now as it's only a corrupt way of filling the pockets of the Democrat swamp and Rinos anyway and you know it Bari Weiss!
Stephens states, "...he is speaking to a society, to a country, or to at least a demographic that has lost its ability to think of the possibility of American success." The irony of a NY Times reporter.
Where has the $113 Billion to Ukraine gone? Given the long history of rampant corruption there I am worried we are just supporting more corrupt oligarchs. We seem to do that in every "necessary war". (Remember Afghanistan?)
"Bret worries that the world is on the precipice of World War III."
"$100 billion isn’t what it used to be"
Too late Bret. How many countries are already directly or indirectly involved? All of NATO, China, Korea, Russia, and who knows how many more. Call it a World War or not, the key military players are all there.
If $100 billion is just pocket change, then let the other NATO members pick up the tab.
Support for this war is waning in the US because there is no end in sight, and we already have more debt than we can reasonably deal with. If there were clear objectives, and NATO members were at the forefront of the effort and putting in maximal effort, then most Americans would continue to support it. But when NATO members don't even honor their financial commitments, and no NATO boots are on the ground, it is clear that this war could easily be lost. And what is the point of spending billions of dollars when you get the same result by spending nothing?
Currently there are roughly 35,000 homeless veterans in America; why don’t we take care of these folks before we go helping someone who has never put him or herself in harm’s way for our freedoms.
The thing that stuck with me in this exchange was the discussion of the nostalgia for the international and domestic conditions of the 1990s, which seems to be a factor for many politicians, as well as the public at large. I suspect that many people don’t realize what an unusual time that was. The U.S. had no powerful international adversaries, and almost everyone thought that the world was on a peaceful trajectory that would involve significantly more international cooperation and lower defense commitments. But really, that period was an anomaly. The enemies of modern life have regained their energy and seem determined, again, to upset a world order that has generated unprecedented freedom and prosperity.