I’m so happy Kat has joined TFP as a regular weekly columnist. In addition to providing some great perspective, she’s a great writer. If you haven’t read her novels, do so.
I feel like Bari is forming her own heterodox version of The Pink Ladies with her, Nellie, Nancy Rommelman and now Kat.
As a proud Carholic, I am tired of the constant criticism and attacks on the Church and our traditions. I didn't practice for a long time, became progressive for 10 years and then came back to the Church and have never felt more fulfilled. Now I completely understand why so many wars were fought over religion and the preservation/expansion of it. It seems like dark days are coming and many are playing the violin.
Also don't agree with the points in Butker's speech.
Also don't care. He's got every right to share his thoughts and beliefs. I have every right to think he's wrong. Also, its time for me to get some ice cream ...
The tagline for this article is cute, but it's important to note that Butker's definition of "Catholic things" doesn't set the agenda for all Catholics, as evidenced by the rebuke he earned from the Benedictine sisters of St. Scholastica.
"One of our concerns was the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman. We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God's people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers."
I find the whole outrage to be a bit silly. Even as a Catholic who agrees with many of the speech’s points, he’s speaking to an audience about generally shared values and was asked to be there. So he gave a commencement speech with Catholic values to Catholic people. Seems pretty in-line and basic to me.
Is it the content, the religion, or the addiction to getting pissed off that’s fueling it?
Thank you for this, Kat. When, after many years of soul searching, I returned to the Catholic Church, I was so afraid of losing my progressive friends. I went to each of them individually to, I don’t know, confess, ask for forgiveness? I felt like I was coming out (no offense to the painful experiences of gay readers - what was similar was the fear). In the end, I lost only one friend, a Unitarian Universalist, the self proclaimed most accepting of everyone church in the universe. In the years since, I’ve only seen the hatred and endless criticism grow. The media never stops bashing the Church. Never. What’s really interesting to me is that over the years, in the parishes I have belonged to, the vast majority of parishioners are now people of color. So these elitist journalists are hating on a population that’s becoming overwhelmingly non-white immigrants, supposedly the people they love. Anyway, I’m sick of it. They don’t have to go, no one is asking them for anything. I wish they would just shut up and stop endlessly picking on, an institution that they have nothing to do with.
I guess being a Christian white male who agrees with everything Butker said, I should thank you for being so generous with your your tolerance. It's really very nice of you.
Mr. Rudolf, I did not see anything in the speech that criticized you as a white Christian man. To be fair, Butker’s speech presented a very specific (and Catholic) view that was patronizing to the many women who don’t agree with the message it was preaching. Having gone to Catholic school, I’m familiar with this rhetoric and it’s tone and, to be completely honest, I find it annoying and short-sighted. But, the author’s point here is that all of this shouldn’t matter. This speech held an extremely traditional view of women and their role in society, but that doesn’t mean society at large should be so upset by it. He’s a Catholic, promoting Catholic doctrine, at a Catholic university. He’s entitled to his own opinions just like I’m entitled to completely dismiss his opinions. And he’s free to do the same of mine. As are you. We should all be less easily offended.
I am accustomed to being patted on the head by the left as a misguided, quaint relic of the past. The article was patronizing to men generally and to Catholics in particular. It was as though to say "Yeah, Catholics believe stupid things; so what?" But to me, Butker's view of women elevates them by acknowledging facts that have been taken for granted for two thousand years. Can anything be more offensive to women than to say that men can BE women by just saying so or by trivializing their roles as wives and mothers? My remark was simply a response to the polite pat on the head I got from the author who thinks I should be grateful she doesn't cancel me. I wasn't offended, just tired of sham virtue and the pretense of tolerance when in fact it was just one more dismissive wave of the hand.. respectfully, Dan Rudolph
I don't like the "Jews killed Jesus" thing, but I bet that the most outraged people were the ones who have no problem with "from the river to the sea". They are always so enthusiastic about pointing out antisemitism on the other side of the political spectrum, while ignoring their own.
Only in America can people make money pointing out the obvious, inventing Chia thing-a-ma-gig, pet rocks, red dirt, and working at the NYT being offended left and right by a world they just discovered exists.
Shocker!! People get married. Some are Pro-life, some pro-choice, some like to work, some like to stay home (notice all the empty office space), some like peanut butter and let’s hope there’s a growing number of people bored with unsolicited faux elite opinions
I’m not sure he should have said the part about the people who killed Jesus. Didn’t the Church officially back off of that position a while ago? I guess he didn’t get the memo.
Jesuit educated Atheist here. You are correct: In 2011 Pope Benedict the sixteenth declared that there is no collective guilt of the Jewish people for the crucifixtion on Jesus. BTW: Personally I classify the whole Jesus story, from birth to death, with Santa Claus & the Easter Bunny.
It seems to me the gravest consequence of all this public outrage is that it is more evident to women choosing motherhood over career (if it wasn't before) that they are thought of by so many as fools, second-class citizens, victims. Ultimately every one of us should be asking, as Butker suggests, not what we are getting, but what we are contributing. You don't have to be Catholic to feel unfulfilled when your life plan is organized around "I want" rather than "what are the needs I can fulfill?" Or put another way, are you using your abilities to make the world better? Motherhood isn't the only contribution one can make. But no serious person can deny its importance.
The happiest people are the givers. Those who can't understand that are showing themselves.
It is more that people need a platform to state their beliefs or opposition to other's beliefs and the quickest way to build a platform is outrage.
As Bari suggested in previous articles, flip it and see if you are outraged.
"Some of you may go on to have successful marriages and have the children, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your career."
I’m so happy Kat has joined TFP as a regular weekly columnist. In addition to providing some great perspective, she’s a great writer. If you haven’t read her novels, do so.
I feel like Bari is forming her own heterodox version of The Pink Ladies with her, Nellie, Nancy Rommelman and now Kat.
Wake me up if he runs for office so I can vote against him. I voted against Herschel Walker, too.
Meanwhile, he's damn good at kicking a football.
#THWg
As a proud Carholic, I am tired of the constant criticism and attacks on the Church and our traditions. I didn't practice for a long time, became progressive for 10 years and then came back to the Church and have never felt more fulfilled. Now I completely understand why so many wars were fought over religion and the preservation/expansion of it. It seems like dark days are coming and many are playing the violin.
One of the best takes on this non-issue I've seen since this whole kerfuffle began.
Also don't agree with the points in Butker's speech.
Also don't care. He's got every right to share his thoughts and beliefs. I have every right to think he's wrong. Also, its time for me to get some ice cream ...
The tagline for this article is cute, but it's important to note that Butker's definition of "Catholic things" doesn't set the agenda for all Catholics, as evidenced by the rebuke he earned from the Benedictine sisters of St. Scholastica.
"One of our concerns was the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman. We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God's people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers."
I find the whole outrage to be a bit silly. Even as a Catholic who agrees with many of the speech’s points, he’s speaking to an audience about generally shared values and was asked to be there. So he gave a commencement speech with Catholic values to Catholic people. Seems pretty in-line and basic to me.
Is it the content, the religion, or the addiction to getting pissed off that’s fueling it?
Its the addiction to getting pissed off.
Why do you think they call it DOPEamine?
"...eating peanut butter straight out of the jar because a sandwich seemed like too much work."
Don't be self-conscious or apologetic about this, Kat. The Peanut Butter Spoon is one of the all-time great snacks.
Thank you for this, Kat. When, after many years of soul searching, I returned to the Catholic Church, I was so afraid of losing my progressive friends. I went to each of them individually to, I don’t know, confess, ask for forgiveness? I felt like I was coming out (no offense to the painful experiences of gay readers - what was similar was the fear). In the end, I lost only one friend, a Unitarian Universalist, the self proclaimed most accepting of everyone church in the universe. In the years since, I’ve only seen the hatred and endless criticism grow. The media never stops bashing the Church. Never. What’s really interesting to me is that over the years, in the parishes I have belonged to, the vast majority of parishioners are now people of color. So these elitist journalists are hating on a population that’s becoming overwhelmingly non-white immigrants, supposedly the people they love. Anyway, I’m sick of it. They don’t have to go, no one is asking them for anything. I wish they would just shut up and stop endlessly picking on, an institution that they have nothing to do with.
I guess being a Christian white male who agrees with everything Butker said, I should thank you for being so generous with your your tolerance. It's really very nice of you.
Mr. Rudolf, I did not see anything in the speech that criticized you as a white Christian man. To be fair, Butker’s speech presented a very specific (and Catholic) view that was patronizing to the many women who don’t agree with the message it was preaching. Having gone to Catholic school, I’m familiar with this rhetoric and it’s tone and, to be completely honest, I find it annoying and short-sighted. But, the author’s point here is that all of this shouldn’t matter. This speech held an extremely traditional view of women and their role in society, but that doesn’t mean society at large should be so upset by it. He’s a Catholic, promoting Catholic doctrine, at a Catholic university. He’s entitled to his own opinions just like I’m entitled to completely dismiss his opinions. And he’s free to do the same of mine. As are you. We should all be less easily offended.
Ms Sullivan,
I am accustomed to being patted on the head by the left as a misguided, quaint relic of the past. The article was patronizing to men generally and to Catholics in particular. It was as though to say "Yeah, Catholics believe stupid things; so what?" But to me, Butker's view of women elevates them by acknowledging facts that have been taken for granted for two thousand years. Can anything be more offensive to women than to say that men can BE women by just saying so or by trivializing their roles as wives and mothers? My remark was simply a response to the polite pat on the head I got from the author who thinks I should be grateful she doesn't cancel me. I wasn't offended, just tired of sham virtue and the pretense of tolerance when in fact it was just one more dismissive wave of the hand.. respectfully, Dan Rudolph
I’ve been there myself with the peanut butter. Sometimes making a sandwich is just too hard.
I don't like the "Jews killed Jesus" thing, but I bet that the most outraged people were the ones who have no problem with "from the river to the sea". They are always so enthusiastic about pointing out antisemitism on the other side of the political spectrum, while ignoring their own.
Thanks Kat
Only in America can people make money pointing out the obvious, inventing Chia thing-a-ma-gig, pet rocks, red dirt, and working at the NYT being offended left and right by a world they just discovered exists.
Shocker!! People get married. Some are Pro-life, some pro-choice, some like to work, some like to stay home (notice all the empty office space), some like peanut butter and let’s hope there’s a growing number of people bored with unsolicited faux elite opinions
I’m not sure he should have said the part about the people who killed Jesus. Didn’t the Church officially back off of that position a while ago? I guess he didn’t get the memo.
Jesuit educated Atheist here. You are correct: In 2011 Pope Benedict the sixteenth declared that there is no collective guilt of the Jewish people for the crucifixtion on Jesus. BTW: Personally I classify the whole Jesus story, from birth to death, with Santa Claus & the Easter Bunny.
It seems to me the gravest consequence of all this public outrage is that it is more evident to women choosing motherhood over career (if it wasn't before) that they are thought of by so many as fools, second-class citizens, victims. Ultimately every one of us should be asking, as Butker suggests, not what we are getting, but what we are contributing. You don't have to be Catholic to feel unfulfilled when your life plan is organized around "I want" rather than "what are the needs I can fulfill?" Or put another way, are you using your abilities to make the world better? Motherhood isn't the only contribution one can make. But no serious person can deny its importance.
The happiest people are the givers. Those who can't understand that are showing themselves.
Amen. This story is such a snooze. People love being outraged.
It is more that people need a platform to state their beliefs or opposition to other's beliefs and the quickest way to build a platform is outrage.
As Bari suggested in previous articles, flip it and see if you are outraged.
"Some of you may go on to have successful marriages and have the children, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your career."