Emily Oster joins me and Nellie Bowles to discuss parenting, Covid, and making enemies left and right.
“she recently wrote Let’s Declare A Pandemic Amnesty, and earned herself some enemies on the right as well.”
Yeah I mean that’s what happens when you come up with a terrible idea that enables the worst people on the planet.
I havent read any of Oster books, but I am of the age where my peers (me including) are looking at staring families and having kids.
According to internet Oster has 2 children, between age 6 and 10. Not to be cynical here, but how do we know that her methods actual work and will bring actual better results over normal parenting? Results are simply still pending.
When I was growing up, I remember in 1990 how whole rage was about helicopter parenting, then there were tiger moms and their methods of razing children in 2010 there was free range parenting, now we have gender neutral parenting. By looking at my generation and generation that followed mine, I ask myself, are all these "new methods" of parenting really helping?
What about just having normal child parent relationship and not treating children as some "project" that can be completed by following latest best seller book. I was lucky to be probably last generation that managed to have normal childhood before all these new parenting methods showed up. Looking at results, honestly I consider myself happy. Sure my parents made mistakes, but in the end I turned out to be well adjusted functioning member of society, thus I guess my parrents did well.
Maybe we are overcomplicating something that humans have done instinctively for 1000s of years. No data can replicate child parent relationship.
I'm still peeved over 'covid amnesty'. It's not okay to just move on without the mainstream understanding why they were wrong, both scientifically and ethically.
Oh how cute that she has 2 little kids and is writing books on successful parenting. I had baited breath until my 4 daughters got though puberty, middle school, high school, college, social media, found jobs, friends, moved to their own homes and got off the pay roll before I considered myself a "success".
The reason that Oster was attacked for her plea for a "pandemic amnesty" her belief that we should simply move on and forget the lies and Constitutional violations that were promulgated by the leftist Democrats. Even Oster's basis for an amnesty is wrong. She argues "But in spring and summer 2020, we had only glimmers of information." Not true. It became apparent early on, and certainly by summer 2020, that this was a disease that mostly affected the elderly and infirm and that there was no need to imprison the young and healthy. But the Left persisted in their lockdowns. And mask mandates. And later vaccine mandates. And screeched that the unvaccinated were murderers and worse even as Cuomo, Murphy, Lamont et al murdered the elderly in nursing homes with their idiotic policies. So no, we won't forgive and forget because what the pandemic exposed most was the Left's hypocrisy groupthink and preference for totalitarianism. And they will do it again and again if we let them.
As soon as your child is old enough to talk, have them put on a face shield and teach them about sexual fetishes. Then give them a Zelenskyy action figure to play with while you explain how everyone in America owned slaves until the 1980s.
Sort of can’t get out of my mind a clip of California governor Gavin Newsom taking his young daughter to an open private school while it was supposedly too dangerous to open public schools. What a disastrous hypocrite. This of course was after he dined indoors at the Michelin starred French Laundry with Pharma lobbyists after crushing small businesses with closures. Democrats are going to have to do a lot more than say “Sorry” to get my vote in the future. By the way, after all that, Emily and The Atlantic would rally round pretty boy Newsom for president and let bygones be bygones. Let’s face facts: the Democrats don’t give a damn about the working class. Why pretend anymore?
I enjoyed the podcast even though I am not a parent. I have to say that I am one of those people still bitter over her "amnesty" take. I appreciated her explanation, but I don't think she fully gets what went on in 2020 and 2021. I work in academia and when COVID hit, I, alongside a colleague, dove into the data -- something Emily would appreciate. With institutional subscriptions to thousands of peer-reviewed journals we read hundreds of pages concerning 1) covid, 2) covid vaccines, 3) masking, and 4) lockdowns. If two low-level academics at a state university knew by mid 2020 that 1) Covid is highly age stratified and had been in this country months before we were told; the pandemic was out of control by 3/20; 2) the vaccines would never be proven safe if rushed to marker in less than a year; 3) Fauci was not lying when he said masking is pointless; 4) lockdowns were never done before, would not work, and would damage people financially, emotionally, and psychologically -- especially children, then high-level officials KNEW this too. Emily says we need to focus on solution to "help the kids." I get it; I want to her help the kids too, but unless the people who designed the destructive policies of the last three years are held accountable, there is no guarantee that we will not repeat the same mistakes. Also, the devastating loss of trust in public health institutions will never be repaired unless there is an honest mea culpa -- not this bullshit "well, the science changed!" And finally, there has been an enormous loss of life and health due to lockdowns, school closures, and vaccine mandates. People have committed suicide, they have overdosed, and they have lost their jobs. Nothing will bring back what was lost for good, but the wellbeing of our society and the restoration of social cohesion requires the cultivation of political emotions that breed unity. I cannot see any other way out of the righteous anger and hurt that has been caused by these policies than via a robust, public, and honest process of accountability. We need a Nuremberg 2.0.
As a father with a much better wife than I deserve, let me say this. I never look for answers in a book. I appreciate the knowledge and information but neither my wife or myself came from what you would call good family situations.
So we asked others, listened and compared with similar experiences and then ultimately went with our own instincts and thoughts. You can not raise a child with a book. You must invest every single second and all of your energy into building a solid family and truly loving environment with equal amounts of rules and discipline. Then often it seems like a crap shoot simply because of Liberal idiots and their ideology. Sure you don’t want to get something cut off? Also they can just be of the nature to gravitate towards those who are just not good people. You must believe in the long run of love, example, and support and continue the battle for their souls. Pretty damn hard, never ending, but sure worth the efforts. We know as we fought the 12 year battle to finally see one of ours become a good solid human.
I applaud the author for her writing and especially making enemies. See that’s part of setting the example by being honest and willing to do the hard work. My only disagreement is forgive the absolutely insane policies and hatred that came from COVID and the completely ignorant attitudes of those willing to destroy others and especially children. I say, never forget and they will gladly do it again. Be aware and always fight for what’s right for the children. Well worth the efforts.
Happy New Year! Any chance that you can continue to provide transcriptions of these interviews? I read better than I hear.. Thanks.
"Paternalistic lists"? Think "Tiger moms" and Helicopter parenting - it wasn't the dads doing all that hovering and in almost all cases I've read it's not the dads playing dress-up with their very young boys and girls basically railroading them right into a deranged mindset where it even okay if you want to transition into the opposite sex.
I've always looked at my wife's and my relationship as providing healthy checks and balances when we raised our kids and they have turned out fine - all 4 are out on their own as fully functioning self sufficient members of society.
Disappointing or telling that Oster takes the opportunity to blame—who else!—Trump for pandemic fear. She neglects to hold the most obvious culprits responsible, the media.No one forced CNN to run rolling death counts on the side of the screen. The constant bogus fear mongering was mainly the work not of Trump but left-leaning media. At least take responsibility for that very obvious fact. I know Oster wants to remain popular with her colleagues but a little honesty would go a long way. It was known very early that elderly and overweight people were at the highest risk yet reporting mainly presented risk as uniform. Can reporters read a two page medical journal article? Is that too much to ask these days? A John’s Hopkins study found extremely low risk in children. Was that on the New York Times front page? Anything that did not feed the fear narrative was sidelined. That is why the press is rating lower and lower in credibility, because it is not credible and clearly had a fear mongering, pro Pharma agenda during the pandemic. By the way, where was the reporting mentioning that Pfizer previously paid a 2.3 billion dollar fine for fraud? I missed that. I guess the Times wasn’t delivered that day.
I never heard of journalists who gloss over accountability. Isn’t that kind of the point of having a press? Not to be too TMZ here but let’s take a stroll down memory lane: Not long ago (not long enough ago), Michael Moore called the vaccinated “the good people”. Sean Penn called for jailing the unvaccinated. Jennifer Aniston after “warning” her unvaccinated friends had to drop them. A hospital denied a kidney to an unvaccinated child who repeatedly tested negative for Covid. Meanwhile the cowardly and nasty Howard Stern was hiding in his Southhampton bunker vilifying the unvaccinated. People lost their careers and businesses. Being banned from restaurants in New York was more psychologically stressful than I had imagined. As a person with a disability who frequently feels like an outsider being literally thrown out of society was quite hard. These examples are just the appetizer.
Enjoyable listen. Nice to hear three charismatic people have a spirited conversation. The only thing that was skated past was the level of rage that exists in people in response to the great COVID coercion. It's the kind of rage that shapes a society. What will be the effect looking forward? I know that every time these issues come up, it rekindles in my gut an insensate rage at what the overlords did to us and society. Definitely not a lot of data driven in that primal urge. Not sure where first world society goes from here.
Yuck. No thank you. No amnesty. She’s awful. She can go back to the woods and scream at children like the witch she is.
Bari & Nellie ~ for those of us who don't want to listen to podcasts, is there a way for FP to easily post transcripts?